![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sweetmarie on August 26, 2001, at 5:28:36
I suffer quite badly from Pre-Menstrual Syndrome. This usually begins about a week/10 days before my period and continues into it for about the first 3 days. It takes the form of :
* MAJOR irritation & hostility
* `Over` emotion, i.e. very weepy/sensitive
* Disorientation & clumsiness
* Worsened depression
All of these are horrible, but the worsened depression is the biggest bummer.
Do any of you females out there suffer in this way?
If so, can you offer any advice as to how to minimise it?
Thanks,
Anna.
Posted by k9lover on August 26, 2001, at 10:31:34
In reply to Pre-Menstrual Syndrome (PMS) and Depression, posted by sweetmarie on August 26, 2001, at 5:28:36
> I suffer quite badly from Pre-Menstrual Syndrome. This usually begins about a week/10 days before my period and continues into it for about the first 3 days. It takes the form of :
>
> * MAJOR irritation & hostility
>
> * `Over` emotion, i.e. very weepy/sensitive
>
> * Disorientation & clumsiness
>
> * Worsened depression
>
> All of these are horrible, but the worsened depression is the biggest bummer.
>
> Do any of you females out there suffer in this way?
>
> If so, can you offer any advice as to how to minimise it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Anna.
I had some PMS (not as severe as yours) and adding testosterone and progesterone creams, as I virtually had none (I'm 41), have revolutionized my life. Ask to have your hormone levels checked.
A friend of mine with bad PMS also was helped by this 'script.Jan
Posted by triedit on August 26, 2001, at 10:38:44
In reply to Re: Pre-Menstrual Syndrome (PMS) and Depression, posted by k9lover on August 26, 2001, at 10:31:34
I have had moderate PMS most of my adult life, but aside from a few months on Xanax, had not used meds for it. Recently started 37.5 mg of Effexor XR and not only did I not notice the emotional PMS onset, I didn't even have cramps. Cant say for certain that they are related, but this month for me was lots easier. I do know that AD's are used for chronic pain sufferers for both the psych effects and the lessening of chronic pain.
I can say that during my time on Prozac or Paxil I still had the emotional PMS symptoms.
Posted by mair on August 26, 2001, at 11:17:06
In reply to Re: Pre-Menstrual Syndrome (PMS) and Depression, posted by triedit on August 26, 2001, at 10:38:44
> I've discovered that the problem with my PMS symptoms is that they can mask themselves as the symptoms of another onslot of depression. Since I sort of get caught up in the feeling of the moment, I sometimes have to remind myself that I may feel so much more acutely depressed because of PMS. This does nothing for the PMS but it does help me recognize that the intense depression I'm suffering will go away. I'm not great at monitoring my period so sometimes I don't see that this is happening until my period arrives. Then it's like "you idiot no wonder you've been so depressed." I, too, would love to find a solution.
Mair
Posted by susan C on August 26, 2001, at 12:26:46
In reply to Re: Pre-Menstrual Syndrome (PMS) and Depression, posted by mair on August 26, 2001, at 11:17:06
Hi sweet marie,
I posted 'been there done that' further up, here it is again, or more or less: I dealt with PMS all my hormonal life, 10-14 days in the basement I called it.
I recommend a thorough hormone level check up with a very openminded gp or nurse practioner. For me the answer was yam derived progesterone sustained release tablet (NOT progestin) taken as needed for mood. In one month it made an amazing difference and did until my life went into peri now menopause. My understanding is it has to do with the relationishp between the levels of the hormones. I charted extensively so I knew when I ovulated, with in 24 hours I would be 'in the basement'. side note: when I finally ended up at the pdoc, I realized I was always depressed and got MORE depressed when pms hit. Lots more stuff on this that there was in the 80's check Dr. Lees books.
Susan C.
Posted by sweetmarie on August 26, 2001, at 14:47:52
In reply to Re: Pre-Menstrual Syndrome (PMS) and Depression, posted by k9lover on August 26, 2001, at 10:31:34
> I had some PMS (not as severe as yours) and adding testosterone and progesterone creams, as I virtually had none (I'm 41), have revolutionized my life. Ask to have your hormone levels checked.
> A friend of mine with bad PMS also was helped by this 'script.
>
> JanHi Jan
Thanks for the suggestions. I`ll definitely go `armed` with them when I next see my GP. I`m not sure where you are posting from, but if it`s the States then you can pretty much bet that these things will not be readily available here (UK).
However, I feel very strongly about the whole thing, and I`m determined to get this sorted (as best I can).
Thanks again,
Anna.
Posted by sweetmarie on August 26, 2001, at 14:50:12
In reply to Re: Pre-Menstrual Syndrome (PMS) and Depression, posted by triedit on August 26, 2001, at 10:38:44
> I have had moderate PMS most of my adult life, but aside from a few months on Xanax, had not used meds for it. Recently started 37.5 mg of Effexor XR and not only did I not notice the emotional PMS onset, I didn't even have cramps. Cant say for certain that they are related, but this month for me was lots easier. I do know that AD's are used for chronic pain sufferers for both the psych effects and the lessening of chronic pain.
>
> I can say that during my time on Prozac or Paxil I still had the emotional PMS symptoms.- As I`m being treated by a specialist at the moment (for my depression), I don`t think that I can suggest any further anti-ds.
Still, it`s all worth knowing.
Thanks,
Anna.
Posted by sweetmarie on August 26, 2001, at 15:01:36
In reply to Re: Pre-Menstrual Syndrome (PMS) and Depression, posted by mair on August 26, 2001, at 11:17:06
I, too, would love to find a solution.
>
> MairHi Mair
A solution would be good! I bought a book yesterday about PMS, which has some horrifying statistics, e.g. a study carried out by the Women`s Nutritional Advisory Service in this country. The research they did into depression as a pre-menstrual symptom showed :
Out of 1000 women -
10% were not affected by depression at all
15% suffered mild depression
19% suffered moderate depression
56% suffered severe depressionThe statistics for suicidal thoughts were even worse.
It totally opened my eyes to things that I had not realised were related to the menstrual cycle. It`s a nightmare to be sure.
My pen-friend (male) told me that he believes that PMT is an `excuse` for bad behaviour in women. They just don`t know the half.
Anyway, thanks for responding.
Anna.
Posted by susan C on August 26, 2001, at 17:35:38
In reply to Re: Pre-Menstrual Syndrome (PMS) and Depression » mair, posted by sweetmarie on August 26, 2001, at 15:01:36
> I, too, would love to find a solution.
> >
> > Mair
>
> Hi Mair
>
> A solution would be good! I bought a book yesterday about PMS, which has some horrifying statistics, e.g. a study carried out by the Women`s Nutritional Advisory Service in this country. The research they did into depression as a pre-menstrual symptom showed :
>
> Out of 1000 women -
>
> 10% were not affected by depression at all
> 15% suffered mild depression
> 19% suffered moderate depression
> 56% suffered severe depression
>
> The statistics for suicidal thoughts were even worse.
>
> It totally opened my eyes to things that I had not realised were related to the menstrual cycle. It`s a nightmare to be sure.
>
> My pen-friend (male) told me that he believes that PMT is an `excuse` for bad behaviour in women. They just don`t know the half.
>
> Anyway, thanks for responding.
>
> Anna.I agree, Anna, I feel very strongly that PMS is a very serious illness/imbalance in many women. As more and more women enter the medical world as professionals, more and more studies are being done that recognize the needs of women. It shocked me to realize that in many past studies women were never included and or never considered as a separate study issue.
I am here pitching for you. Got to it girl.
Susan C.
Posted by sweetmarie on August 27, 2001, at 4:28:04
In reply to Re: Pre-Menstrual Syndrome (PMS) and Depression, posted by susan C on August 26, 2001, at 17:35:38
> I am here pitching for you. Got to it girl.
>
> Susan C.Hi again Susan
Yes it IS a serious illness, and certainly one worthy of far more attention/research than it is currently receiving (at least in this country). I think that one of the problems is men, i.e. they - at least the ones that I have spoken to about it - seem to think that we are `this way` because we don`t like having periods, if you see what I mean. I remember my father shouting at me when I was about 18 "50 million women have periods and they don`t make this fuss!" He`s very sympathetic now, but I haven`t let him forget what he said.
There are 4 main `groups` of symptoms:
PMS `A` (Anxiety) -
Nervous tension, mood swings, irritability, anxiety.
PMS `H` (Hydration) -
Weight gain, swelling of extremities, breast tenderness, abdominal bloating.
PMS `C` (Craving) -
Headache, craving for sweets, increased appetite, heart pounding, fatigue, dizziness or fainting.
PMS `D` (Depression) -
Depression, forgetfulness, crying, confusion, insomnia.
It could be that you fit neatly into one of those categories, but it`s just as likely that you suffer symptoms from more than one category (like me).
These are some other "most common PMS symptoms" :
Agoraphobia, sensitivity to light, disorientation, mouth ulcers, acne, heart poundings, cramp pains, hostility, diarrhoea, cystitis, hay fever, asthma, bad breath, excessive thirst, backache, restlessness, constipation, exzema, boils.
You don`t need it, do you? When I was talking to my sister yesterday about this (she suffers badly too), she said `doesn`t it really make you hate men?`. Obviously she doesn`t hate men at all, but feeling the way she was feeling, she just felt the unfairness of the whole thing.
Anyway, there you go. The book suggests dietary changes - mainly eating sensibly (no sugar, alcohol, caffeine, junk food, food with additives). I`ve decided to give it a go, but I`m not sure how I`ll be with the `no caffeine` bit. I think maybe one cup per day ... as for the `no smoking` aspect - that`s just out of the question - at least for now.
Cheers for your encouragement (as always),
Anna.
p.s. I was talking with one women who already suffers from depression, and she reckoned that her depression gets `7 to 8 times worse` around pre-menstrual time. Just what you need.
Posted by phillybob on August 27, 2001, at 10:22:43
In reply to Re: Pre-Menstrual Syndrome (PMS) and Depression, posted by susan C on August 26, 2001, at 17:35:38
> I feel very strongly that PMS is a very serious illness/imbalance in many women. As more and more women enter the medical world as professionals, more and more studies are being done that recognize the needs of women.
Wanted to throw a male voice into this. I agree wholeheartedly with your above statement, Susan.
Yes, this should be a fascinating area of (hopefully) scientific growth now that more and more women are in the medical profession. In addition to just plain old more research, I'd guess that it will also be more of an acceptable field of study if it is perceived to be studied by those whose (supposed non-financial) vested interests are at stake.
It has seemed to me that many women disregard or publicly minimize attention to PMS as they might perceive it to be a sign of weakness. As a man, I sense women do not wish to bring attention to this for such fears (and traditionally male-dominated medicine might have had, in addition to no seeming non-financial self-interest, the same trepidations in addressing such).
As far as the cause of such fears, I would suppose that men and our society's preference for traditional "male-type" characteristics is the culprit, along with an unhealthy modicum of socially-"acceptable" joking about this female biological function.
Differences between male and female are too often minimized in the name of equality. Differences should be understood and embraced or altered, as REALLY appropriate. (It is somewhat a paradox, though, that the gains made in women's equality by minimizing women's differences is what will hopefully result in more understanding and acceptance of the differences!)
In the risk of generating "attack" (or more hopefully, discussion), I have an idealistic view that there may actually be benefit to having the cyclical hormonal change which may result in giving women the ability to see and participate in the world through a different window ... and I would view such as a gift. (Kind of like forced meditation on life?).
Nonetheless, such a period (no pun intended) could, no doubt, be unbearable if amidst a greater and more generalized "depressed" life. Even for a normally technically undepressed woman, , the power of any symptoms, emotionally and physically, are obviously beyond my fathom and may just be worthwhile eliminating as much as possible?
In a final note, "hormones," as a word, are too often, in our society, bandied about with a relation to women alone as well as having negative connotations. Heck, men and women are biologically different, but we both have hormones and the further study of such could ultimately lead to solutions to many of our collective problems. (I recall some threads here dealing with not only hormone supplements but even just the "food" to create hormones, in the form of vitamins, minerals, etc.; also, any links to such threads or repeat of ideas here, as I likely have done, would be cool).
Posted by sweetmarie on August 27, 2001, at 12:19:53
In reply to Re: Pre-Menstrual Syndrome (PMS) and Depression, posted by phillybob on August 27, 2001, at 10:22:43
> It has seemed to me that many women disregard or publicly minimize attention to PMS as they might perceive it to be a sign of weakness. As a man, I sense women do not wish to bring attention to this for such fears (and traditionally male-dominated medicine might have had, in addition to no seeming non-financial self-interest, the same trepidations in addressing such).
>
> As far as the cause of such fears, I would suppose that men and our society's preference for traditional "male-type" characteristics is the culprit, along with an unhealthy modicum of socially-"acceptable" joking about this female biological function.
>
> Differences between male and female are too often minimized in the name of equality. Differences should be understood and embraced or altered, as REALLY appropriate. (It is somewhat a paradox, though, that the gains made in women's equality by minimizing women's differences is what will hopefully result in more understanding and acceptance of the differences!)
>
> In the risk of generating "attack" (or more hopefully, discussion), I have an idealistic view that there may actually be benefit to having the cyclical hormonal change which may result in giving women the ability to see and participate in the world through a different window ... and I would view such as a gift. (Kind of like forced meditation on life?).
>
> Nonetheless, such a period (no pun intended) could, no doubt, be unbearable if amidst a greater and more generalized "depressed" life. Even for a normally technically undepressed woman, , the power of any symptoms, emotionally and physically, are obviously beyond my fathom and may just be worthwhile eliminating as much as possible?- Bob,
I agree with you on all your earlier points but, even outside a `generalised "depressed life"`, many of the symptoms of Pre-Menstrual Syndrome are difficult, frightening and unpleasant. The depression symptoms aside, one big area is that of irritability and hostility. I can`t explain the extent to the distress that this causes both to the PMS sufferer and those around (family, partner, friends etc.). The best way I can describe this is by saying that I feel as though I have been taken over by another person, i.e. a very unpleasant person. Basically I turn into some kind of harridan - I find that I have only contempt for what others are saying, and more often than not I tell them to shut up/f*** off or whatever. In worse scenarios, I`ve been known to become violent - I`ve thrown things at some of my exes simply for not listening to me. I get totally filled with hate. Added to this, there`s the disorientation, forgetfulness and confusion - i.e. walking around in a total daze. I could go on ... I assure you that, by no stretch of the imagination could it be seen as a `gift` (well, if it is a gift, it`s not one I want or have asked for). I think you got it right when you said about eliminating as many symptoms as possible.
> In a final note, "hormones," as a word, are too often, in our society, bandied about with a relation to women alone as well as having negative connotations. Heck, men and women are biologically different, but we both have hormones and the further study of such could ultimately lead to solutions to many of our collective problems. (I recall some threads here dealing with not only hormone supplements but even just the "food" to create hormones, in the form of vitamins, minerals, etc.; also, any links to such threads or repeat of ideas here, as I likely have done, would be cool).
I think that maintaining a healthy balance of hormones (male and female - but obviously more so with women) has a lot to do with healthy eating, i.e. not eating too much junk food, not drinking too much caffeine, not drinking (alcohol) excessively, not smoking etc. I can just about cut all those things out except smoking, which will be a major achievement if I ever do manage it. Anyway, yes basically, food plays a big part.
Anna.
Posted by akrake on August 27, 2001, at 13:30:20
In reply to Pre-Menstrual Syndrome (PMS) and Depression, posted by sweetmarie on August 26, 2001, at 5:28:36
Anna,I know how you feel. I've been having severe PMS for about a year and in April it developed into PMDD. I tried sarafem everyday for it. it stopped my symptoms...i didn't even know i was going to have my period the day i got it....a big change from before...but i had bad side effects. so i stopped.
i started a vitamin regiment in July (following Michael T. Murray, ND, PMS book's suggestions) and I'm hoping that will help with my PMDD. In July I also started Wellbutrin SR which has helped a little bit but not much....the hormones are the root of the problem (i suspect). a side note (and probably more than you want to know) is that i have an iud so my periods are longer and heavier(9days) and that makes the time when i'm not affected by the pmdd shorter and shorter...I'm only NORMAL 7 days out of the month!....so i was at wits end last week and on friday called my gyn doc's office (he wasn't there) and poured my guts out to his nurse. she told me to take my klonopin (which i wasn't very faithful in doing) to take the edge off the pmdd and to see him on monday.
so, today is monday. i've spoken to him and decided to stick with the klonopin (not everyday...only when needed) and wellbutrin. he didn't want me to go back on the sarafem yet...so i'm trying a new birth control called yasmin...which has been proven to help with pmdd (check out medscape....the press release has been all over the internet this weekend). i hope this will help me...the hostility is killing my relationship with my kids and husband.
hope that you can find some relief.
akrake
ps. are you on birth control pills? most doc think this will really help...i just didn't want to take the pill and have an iud at the same time...but i'm going to try it out for 3 months and see if i experience a turn around. AND there is also a new iud out that stops your period. i may consider that too...but i don't know if it'll stop the pms. good luck
Posted by phillybob on August 27, 2001, at 13:37:38
In reply to Re: Pre-Menstrual Syndrome (PMS) and Depression » phillybob, posted by sweetmarie on August 27, 2001, at 12:19:53
> irritability and hostility
that is the symptom of pms of which most of us men are aware, but is it experienced by ALL women and if so, is it debilitating for all women?
i see your point and that a "magic pill" to end pms symptoms would be great, but i don't want to apply it (in my mind) as being necessary for all women (but i really don't know). i need to think about it more. the only thing coming to my mind right now are similar thoughts/arguments on the use of anesthesia when giving birth or, to the extreme, just having a C-section, to eliminate (certain) pains. of course, it should always be the woman's choice, but how would i feel personally and what would i choose and why?
i'm thinking men are aware of these negative symptoms because it is most easily and often observed by us, but i'm wondering whether or not it is a fair generalization to make of all women or not. we men don't really get enlightened on this much because we are usually only familiar with a certain number of women's cyclic "problems" ... maybe, many women are just fine actors?
(you see, we men are often aware of these symptoms in women but are leary of pointing such out for obvious fear of getting head ripped off)
funny thing is, most men are irritable and hostile, but we like to be a little less predictable about when we are going to be so, and we would only blame it on others anyway. :)
sweetmarie, i think it's very cool that you can recognize your symptoms. should help you feel less "crazy" if it can be attributed to something so obviously beyond one's control. still, i guess, when one is in the throes of the cycle, it is as hard to remove oneself from it (and even imagine what it is like when not experiencing such?) as it is when one is in the throes of depression
Posted by susan C on August 27, 2001, at 15:25:14
In reply to Re: Pre-Menstrual Syndrome (PMS) and Depression, posted by phillybob on August 27, 2001, at 13:37:38
Hi all, this is turning into quite a discussion. Here are a couple more bits to chew on ( not chew off )
in some cultures, when this time of the month comes, the women spend a week in solitude. No responsibilities. It is also considered by some to be a time of hightened creativity and insight. A time of honor. Another interesting bit, is women who spend a lot of time together (offices, family, groups of any kind) end up over a period of a year or so with synchronized mensus.
Diet, especially in our western culture, is very important. It is the first, in my opinion, thing to evaluate. When I journaled and charted before PMS was named such, I got to the point where Anne was describing where I could see the irritability. One day, I was walking down the hall and it was like a switch...one moment I was fine, the next a raging b***h. I KNEW it was a dramatic drop in the balance of my hormones.
Stress goes into this mix also...when I found out about this cultural comparison, I started to chart out my months AHEAD of time and make sure I minimized expectations the last two weeks of every month. I tried to stop expecting as much of me, which is hard for a perfectionist...
Part of this increase of attention to women's health is based on demographics, we baby boomers are so numerous, nothing can get by us....There are a lot more women out there thinking and writing and researching.
Last bit...perfectionism is a trait of women deal with PMS.
Out catching a few fly balls and attempting to throw 'em home, Susan C.
> that is the symptom of pms of which most of us men are aware, but is it experienced by ALL women and if so, is it debilitating for all women?
>
> i see your point and that a "magic pill" to end pms symptoms would be great, but i don't want to apply it (in my mind) as being necessary for all women (but i really don't know). i need to think about it more. the only thing coming to my mind right now are similar thoughts/arguments on the use of anesthesia when giving birth or, to the extreme, just having a C-section, to eliminate (certain) pains. of course, it should always be the woman's choice, but how would i feel personally and what would i choose and why?
>
> i'm thinking men are aware of these negative symptoms because it is most easily and often observed by us, but i'm wondering whether or not it is a fair generalization to make of all women or not. we men don't really get enlightened on this much because we are usually only familiar with a certain number of women's cyclic "problems" ... maybe, many women are just fine actors?
>
> (you see, we men are often aware of these symptoms in women but are leary of pointing such out for obvious fear of getting head ripped off)
>
> funny thing is, most men are irritable and hostile, but we like to be a little less predictable about when we are going to be so, and we would only blame it on others anyway. :)
>
> sweetmarie, i think it's very cool that you can recognize your symptoms. should help you feel less "crazy" if it can be attributed to something so obviously beyond one's control. still, i guess, when one is in the throes of the cycle, it is as hard to remove oneself from it (and even imagine what it is like when not experiencing such?) as it is when one is in the throes of depression
Posted by SLS on August 27, 2001, at 16:55:52
In reply to Re: Pre-Menstrual Syndrome (PMS) and Depression » phillybob, posted by sweetmarie on August 27, 2001, at 12:19:53
> I think that maintaining a healthy balance of hormones (male and female - but obviously more so with women) has a lot to do with healthy eating, i.e. not eating too much junk food, not drinking too much caffeine, not drinking (alcohol) excessively, not smoking etc. I can just about cut all those things out except smoking, which will be a major achievement if I ever do manage it. Anyway, yes basically, food plays a big part.
Anna - I think you might be exactly right.Just a thought or two...
We are consuming and being exposed to a whole lot of things that didn't figure into the equation as we were evolving as a species. Our systems might not be well equipped to maintain the physiological balance that we were programmed to have by nature while we are continually exposed to all of the substances contained in our processed foods. I think it might also be possible that the increased stresses of living in industrialized societies might also play a part, as stress has been shown to influence the functioning of the CNS and endocrine (hormone) systems.
I would love to know the rates of PMS throughout history. I would also like to know if PMS occurs to the same extent in other primates as well as any other animals with menstrual cycles (as opposed to estrous cycles). What are the rates and severity of PMS in aboriginal populations? It is difficult to imagine that nature built such a significantly detrimental event to occur regularly. Unfortunately, evolution doesn't work with a plan in mind or directed towards a teleological order (I guess this is really a matter of opinion). If there are no forces at work deselecting women who suffer PMS for successful breeding, we might be stuck with it. (I fully and respectfully appreciate that "we" does not include "me"). After all, it doesn't seem that God was too concerned with making women suffer during child birth. But really - I think it might be important to study the epidemiology of PMS historically and demographically to determine if there are factors in our environment or way of life contributing to its phenomenology that can be isolated and rectified.
I guess all of this probably applies to depression in general.
- Scott
Posted by shelliR on August 27, 2001, at 17:00:06
In reply to Pre-Menstrual Syndrome (PMS) and Depression, posted by sweetmarie on August 26, 2001, at 5:28:36
> I suffer quite badly from Pre-Menstrual Syndrome. This usually begins about a week/10 days before my period and continues into it for about the first 3 days. It takes the form of :
>
> * MAJOR irritation & hostility
>
> * `Over` emotion, i.e. very weepy/sensitive
>
> * Disorientation & clumsiness
>
> * Worsened depression
>
> All of these are horrible, but the worsened depression is the biggest bummer.
>
> Do any of you females out there suffer in this way?
>
> If so, can you offer any advice as to how to minimise it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Anna.Hi Anna.
I've been thinking about you and wondering about the program you were waiting to hear from.
Also if your bath and kitchen are any closer to yellow. :-)I think akrake had a good suggestion with trying birth control pills. There are very low dose estrogen-progesterone that seem to help people. Also I use natural progesterone. It's helped me alot with the physical symptoms, not so much with depression, but for some women it really does help their depression. I get in from the pharmacy in vaginal insert form and is a bit messy (I use it at night for about ten days out of the month.) It is by prescription here and don't know what is available in the UK, but if you become more interested, I'll try to find out exactly what the compound is. The other thing I have done for many years when I was on an MAOI (instead of med trials, this past year) is to increase my AD during those ten days. I know you are pretty high up on yours, so I don't know if this would be possible, but you could ask.
I really do think about you and hope that you are feeling a little more settled out of the hospital.
Shelli
Posted by sweetmarie on August 28, 2001, at 6:17:37
In reply to Re: Pre-Menstrual Syndrome (PMS) and Depression » sweetmarie, posted by shelliR on August 27, 2001, at 17:00:06
> I really do think about you and hope that you are feeling a little more settled out of the hospital.
>
> ShelliHi Shelli
It`s nice of you to think about me. I`m not doing very well at all, I`m afraid.
The `support structure` has still not been sorted out - I`m waiting for an assessment for the day centre (and I`m not even sure whether they`ll take me on), I`m waiting to hear back from the Community Psychiatric Services as to whether or not they can help me, and my CBT doesn`t start till October. Basically, the hospital - > home transition has not worked out as I`d hoped, and I feel distinctly out on a limb.
There are a couple of other things too - my friend (one of my best friends) took an overdose recently, and went into hospital (Accident & Emergency and then the Psychiatric Ward). She`s now become completely psychotic, which she`s never been before. This has really affected me - I feel bad for her, and also the big `S` word seems more of an option as a result of what she`s done. I`m not sure that this will make any sense to you - I`m not sure that it makes a great deal of sense to me. She doesn`t want to see any of her friends either, and from a thoroughly selfish point of view, I was hoping that she`d be around so we could support each other (this isn`t my biggest worry about it, though).
The other thing is that my parents are going abroad on holiday for 2 weeks on Friday. Up until recently I thought that it was only 1 week (my mistake), and I`m really frightened, especially now that the `supports` I wanted to have sorted out are not in place. I don`t live with them, but it`s just the fact that they are nearby, and are currently my only support. I was seeing them 3 times a week, but ringing them more often than that. I`m totally dreading it. I`m trying to arrange for friends to come and stay for two of the weekends, but I don`t actually feel up to seeing either of them. They are both really nice blokes, but I haven`t seen either for about 2 years, and - well, I`m not looking forward to it to say the least. My sister`s currently in the States (West Virginia) for 4 months, so she can`t come up, and I can`t go down to her.
The thing that I`m concerned about is that I`ve `sunk` so badly over the last 2 weeks (since leaving hospital), despite `keeping busy` (e.g. I`ve been doing a walk with my mother every day). Having been on my meds for 4 months now (11 weeks at the optimal dose), I feel that `knock-backs` like these oughtn`t to set me back as badly as this. I keep trying to tell myself that :-
a) the things (that are going on around me) are NOT trivial, and
b) that I DID make some progress, and that I`m probably still waiting for the meds to do their thing (they say that meds generally take 8 - 12 weeks to start working, which begins again after each increment*). And, of course, they HAD started doing something (I don`t think that I was dreaming it).
I`m just really confused, down, and disheartened. I`ve been having days like I used to have before I went into hospital, which really frightens me.
Anyway, I`m sorry not to have better things to report. Hopefully I`ll pick up.
Thanks for thinking of me,
Anna.
* So I`ve been told.
Posted by shelliR on August 28, 2001, at 22:24:49
In reply to How Things Are » shelliR, posted by sweetmarie on August 28, 2001, at 6:17:37
>Hi Anna.
Is it possible to go back into the hospital until things are set up for you? It seems like they kept you so long, but not really long enough to trust the medication. And now no followup for so long.
In the US they don't keep you more than a couple of weeks in the hospital, because of insurance. I guess maybe you can stay in state run hosptials for longer, but they are awful places to be. Very scarey, generally. But there were a lot of options to choose out of the hospital for followup here.
You sound like you should go back until everything is settled.
I'm sorry you are feeling so bad and so scared.
Shelli
Posted by sweetmarie on August 29, 2001, at 3:15:24
In reply to Re: How Things Are » sweetmarie, posted by shelliR on August 28, 2001, at 22:24:49
> >Hi Anna.
>
> Is it possible to go back into the hospital until things are set up for you? It seems like they kept you so long, but not really long enough to trust the medication. And now no followup for so long.
>
> In the US they don't keep you more than a couple of weeks in the hospital, because of insurance. I guess maybe you can stay in state run hosptials for longer, but they are awful places to be. Very scarey, generally. But there were a lot of options to choose out of the hospital for followup here.
>
> You sound like you should go back until everything is settled.
>
> I'm sorry you are feeling so bad and so scared.
>
>
> Shelli
ShelliI`m afraid that going back to hospital isn`t an option. The hospital I was in was one that I was referred to, and not my local hospital. I had to wait 6 months for a bed there, as it`s a specialist unit (one of only 2 in the country).
I think that we were all reasonably sure that things had been set up and I was in agreement about my discharge date. Although I certainly wasn`t well, I felt `on the right road`, and that coming out and getting straight into the day centre and the CBT - with the additional support of the community nurse, would be O.K. I still think so now, except that these things didn`t happen. What I didn`t want is to stay in hospital any longer than necessary - I was there over 4 months anyway. But I totally knew that it was crucial that stuff be set up for me, or problems would arise. I told them (the nurses, doctors etc.) this over and over again. To be fair to all of us, it looked as though they were.
It`s just unfortunate that things have worked out as they have. My parents going away for 2 weeks was the last straw (that and my friend becoming so ill). I don`t think I`d have taken the nose-dive that I have if they weren`t going away - I realize that I would still be bad, as I`m still adjusting to life in general again, but ...
I suppose that I could go into the local hospital, but it`s very grim indeed (the old lunatic asylum), and also Jo (my friend) is there. I don`t actually think that this is an option worth pursuing.
I think that I will have to `hang in` and see this period as it is, i.e. a bad spell. I`m reluctant to do anything about changing meds, as I had begun to see an improvement. I also know that it can take much longer than is `officially` stated for meds to take effect properly. My professor (in hospital) told me that it can really vary from person to person - whilst for some people it`s a sudden `lift`, with others it`s a slow gradual thing over months. I`m hoping that I belong to the latter category.
Anyway. That`s the story. I still feel pretty cruddy, but I think that I`ll probably have to accept that for a while. Things are far from being sorted out - most things are up in the air still, and uncertainty has always been very depression-provoking for me (that and fear). What I hope most of all is that I haven`t lost what I gained (not that it was very much, but for me it was significant). My Dad reckons that you can`t `lose` progress gained, and that I`ll pick it up again. Hope he`s right.
Thank you for replying - it`s really good of you to take an interest. I appreciate it.
Love,
Anna.
Posted by Ariella on August 29, 2001, at 22:36:25
In reply to Re: Pre-Menstrual Syndrome (PMS) and Depression » k9lover, posted by sweetmarie on August 26, 2001, at 14:47:52
Anna,
Have you tried calling around for a PMS clinic? Try University College in London. They should be able to point you in the right direction.
Ariella
> Hi Jan
>
> Thanks for the suggestions. I`ll definitely go `armed` with them when I next see my GP. I`m not sure where you are posting from, but if it`s the States then you can pretty much bet that these things will not be readily available here (UK).
Posted by sweetmarie on August 30, 2001, at 7:29:55
In reply to Re: Pre-Menstrual Syndrome (PMS) and Depression, posted by Ariella on August 29, 2001, at 22:36:25
> Anna,
>
> Have you tried calling around for a PMS clinic? Try University College in London. They should be able to point you in the right direction.
>
> AriellaThank you for the info - I`ll contact them.
- Anna.
This is the end of the thread.
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