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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by AVR on August 23, 2001, at 21:14:39
This stupid legal drug has given me more brain damage than any illegal drug out there. I've tried acid, hash and other street drugs and my brain would be back to normal within hours but this stupid Paxil which I took for 2 years for my depression/anxiety&panic/ocd has left me with flutters in my head, continuos cracking sounds when I walk and many more problems. I have been without Paxil now for a month. I sure hope these damages are short term and that my brain can re-write itself. This brain damaging drug should be illegal. I don't even think acid, ecstasy or even crack could do the damage that paxil can do to the brain.
Posted by Janelle on August 23, 2001, at 21:38:20
In reply to Paxil should be illegal / It causes brain damage, posted by AVR on August 23, 2001, at 21:14:39
Sorry (but not surprised) to hear this about Paxil. However, hang in there - you could be having prolonged WITHDRAWAL symptoms from it - Paxil has a rep for being the worst SSRI for withdrawal. And I've "been there, done that" - on bad advice from an otherwise good pdoc, I went off it in less than a week after being on it about SIX YEARS. I also had flutters in my head if by that you mean the "electric head" sensation (mine went from my head all the way down my legs to my toes when I took my nightly walk), SEVERE nausea (the worst I can remember in my life), cold sweats, chills, and other flu symptoms. This stuff lasted a few weeks and was awful.
However, I'm pleased to tell you that it was GONE and done with, no lasting effects, thank goodness. I've been with Paxil for about four months now and would like to think that my brain has indeed been able to "re-write itself."
It's scary to think how the little pink pill (or green if you take 40 mg) can indeed alter one's brain, but I don't think it's permanent.
-Janelle
Posted by SalArmy4me on August 24, 2001, at 7:07:12
In reply to Paxil should be illegal / It causes brain damage, posted by AVR on August 23, 2001, at 21:14:39
Boy, you just provide overwhelming evidence to support your conclusion that Paxil causes brain damage. I'm just so impressed. NOT
Posted by Shellye on August 24, 2001, at 7:12:32
In reply to Re: Paxil should be illegal / It causes brain damage » AVR, posted by SalArmy4me on August 24, 2001, at 7:07:12
the brain damage, not the Paxil. I think there are a lot of scientist that would agree.
Hope you find something LEGAL that works for you.
Posted by SalArmy4me on August 24, 2001, at 7:16:37
In reply to I think it was everything else you did that caused, posted by Shellye on August 24, 2001, at 7:12:32
I have found something LEGAL that works for me: moclobemide imported from Italy that is procured here legally under an act of government that allows Americans to import a 90-day foreign substance for personal use.
Where is your evidence that scientists agree with you? Show me EVIDENCE, m'aam.
> the brain damage, not the Paxil. I think there are a lot of scientist that would agree.
>
> Hope you find something LEGAL that works for you.
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 24, 2001, at 12:02:58
In reply to Re: Paxil should be illegal / It causes brain damage » AVR, posted by SalArmy4me on August 24, 2001, at 7:07:12
> Boy, you just provide overwhelming evidence to support your conclusion that Paxil causes brain damage. I'm just so impressed. NOT
It's OK to disagree, but please don't be sarcastic. Thanks,
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding civility should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted.
Posted by Elizabeth on August 24, 2001, at 12:43:40
In reply to Paxil should be illegal / It causes brain damage, posted by AVR on August 23, 2001, at 21:14:39
Drugs aren't made legal or illegal based on actual danger, but rather, on "abuse potential."
-elizabeth
Posted by Lini on August 24, 2001, at 14:17:15
In reply to Re: Paxil should be illegal / It causes brain damage » AVR, posted by Elizabeth on August 24, 2001, at 12:43:40
> Drugs aren't made legal or illegal based on actual danger, but rather, on "abuse potential."
>
> -elizabethI don't know about that argument - alcohol and nicotine are both legal and the potential for abuse is significant and very real. And, not to get caught up in semantics but, I am not sure how one would separate actual danger and abuse potential - doesn't one directly effect the other?
-Lini
Posted by Simcha on August 24, 2001, at 14:52:37
In reply to Re: Paxil should be illegal / It causes brain damage » AVR, posted by Elizabeth on August 24, 2001, at 12:43:40
Elizabeth,
Isn't it true that they pull drugs from the market that cause defects. Isn't Phen-Phen now illegal to prescribe? I thought that the FDA removes such dangerous drugs from the market.... I dunno... I could be wrong...
> Drugs aren't made legal or illegal based on actual danger, but rather, on "abuse potential."
>
> -elizabeth
Posted by Daveman on August 24, 2001, at 20:30:10
In reply to Paxil should be illegal / It causes brain damage, posted by AVR on August 23, 2001, at 21:14:39
AVR, How quickly did you withdraw from it? What you describe sounds like what I've been told are symptoms for sudden discontinuance of the short-acting SSRI's (Paxil and Luvox).
Dave
> This stupid legal drug has given me more brain damage than any illegal drug out there. I've tried acid, hash and other street drugs and my brain would be back to normal within hours but this stupid Paxil which I took for 2 years for my depression/anxiety&panic/ocd has left me with flutters in my head, continuos cracking sounds when I walk and many more problems. I have been without Paxil now for a month. I sure hope these damages are short term and that my brain can re-write itself. This brain damaging drug should be illegal. I don't even think acid, ecstasy or even crack could do the damage that paxil can do to the brain.
Posted by triedit on August 25, 2001, at 19:57:23
In reply to Re: Paxil should be illegal / It causes brain damage » AVR, posted by Daveman on August 24, 2001, at 20:30:10
I too have had longterm problems that I percieve as a side effect of Paxil. There is a class-action lawsuit happening in California. I suggest searching the internet under 'Paxil' and finding the message board for this drug.
I also highly, highly, highly recommend that NOBODY go off paxil without CLOSE supervision by a doctor and a family member or close friend.
Posted by Elizabeth on August 26, 2001, at 10:07:20
In reply to Re: Paxil should be illegal / It causes brain damage » Elizabeth, posted by Lini on August 24, 2001, at 14:17:15
Lini:
> I don't know about that argument - alcohol and nicotine are both legal and the potential for abuse is significant and very real.
In the case of alcohol, the government has realised that it couldn't keep it illegal (they did try). They haven't figured that out about other drugs yet. (I also don't get why they knew that they needed to amend the Constitution in order to make alcohol illegal, but for some reason they believe that it's Constitutional to pass legislation making other drugs illegal.)
In the case of tobacco, the industry bribed the government. Also, tobacco doesn't get people high and has never been associated with non-white races or other "undesirable" people (heroin was associated with [black] jazz musicians, marijuana with Mexicans, crack with blacks, LSD with hippies, etc.). Of course, now recreational drug users are considered inherently "undesirable," so newer drugs (such as ecstasy) are just considered inherently evil.
> And, not to get caught up in semantics but, I am not sure how one would separate actual danger and abuse potential - doesn't one directly effect the other?
Not significantly. Some drugs of "abuse" are relatively safe (for example, marijuana is very safe, and opioids, although they do have high abuse potential and can be lethal in overdose, don't have the health risks of, say, alcohol or tobacco). And plenty of drugs that aren't abused are very dangerous -- antineoplastics, for example, are just about the most toxic drugs around.
Simcha:
> Isn't it true that they pull drugs from the market that cause defects.
No. The drug company does that. It doesn't mean the drug is illegal; it just means it's unmarketable (because of the "black box" that is required to be added to its labeling). Fenfluramine and dexfenfluramine were voluntarily withdrawn from the market by the manufacturer. (Phentermine, the other half of "phen-fen," is still available.)
-elizabeth
Posted by djmmm on August 26, 2001, at 12:33:56
In reply to Paxil should be illegal / It causes brain damage, posted by AVR on August 23, 2001, at 21:14:39
> This stupid legal drug has given me more brain damage than any illegal drug out there. I've tried acid, hash and other street drugs and my brain would be back to normal within hours but this stupid Paxil which I took for 2 years for my depression/anxiety&panic/ocd has left me with flutters in my head, continuos cracking sounds when I walk and many more problems. I have been without Paxil now for a month. I sure hope these damages are short term and that my brain can re-write itself. This brain damaging drug should be illegal. I don't even think acid, ecstasy or even crack could do the damage that paxil can do to the brain.
AVR, your thoughts on Paxil, if not in the majority are valid. I also suffer from prolonged effects associated with SSRIs.
A few months ago I came across a study from the Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Pharmacology @ Thomas Jefferson Univ. that described "morphological changes" to serotonergic nerve terminals caused by high doses of SSRIs, the same changes caused by drugs like MDMA, (ecstacy) and Fenfluramine.
I can't find the link anywhere(pubmed, etc) but here is the study:
KALIA, M., O'Callaghan J.P. and Miller, D.B. Comparative study of fluoxetine, sibutramine, sertraline and dexfenfluramine on the morophology of serotonergic nerve terminals using serotonin immunocytochemistry. Brain Research, 858:92-108, 2000
Posted by stjames on August 28, 2001, at 1:14:51
In reply to Re: Paxil should be illegal / It causes brain damage, posted by djmmm on August 26, 2001, at 12:33:56
> KALIA, M., O'Callaghan J.P. and Miller, D.B. Comparative study of fluoxetine, sibutramine, sertraline and dexfenfluramine on the morophology of serotonergic nerve terminals using serotonin immunocytochemistry. Brain Research, 858:92-108, 2000
>
> http://jeffline.tju.edu/CWIS/DEPT/biochemistry/kalia.html
james here...The study does not prove brain damage. It shows changes. No one knows what the changes mean, thought I would expect to see changes in a med
that lifts my significant depression. Talking about brain damage in the context of AD's is inflamitory nor is there a shread of supporting
evidence. Changes do not, da facto, mean damage.j
This is the end of the thread.
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