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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Georgie Geordie on August 14, 2001, at 8:46:53
I'm in the Uk and get panic attack/anxiety.
I'm being screened for a pregablin trial. On the notes it says that mice developed tumors at near human dose ranges but rats did not.
What does this mean exactly...
Posted by JahL on August 14, 2001, at 10:23:38
In reply to Pregablin trial / mice tumours, posted by Georgie Geordie on August 14, 2001, at 8:46:53
> I'm in the Uk and get panic attack/anxiety.
>
> I'm being screened for a pregablin trial. On the notes it says that mice developed tumors at near human dose ranges but rats did not.
>
> What does this mean exactly...I think one's (mice?-I'm sure someone here will know) a better indicator as to what human responses will be to a given drug.
I'm UK too. Am yet to meet a psychiatrist who can be bothered to get me on one of these trials, despite the fact I'm more than willing & I have responded to very little of what's currently available.
I take it you're up from the North-East (I'm one of those Southern softies)? Would you be prepared to reveal whereabouts this trial is? Are they still screening for volunteers? I'm v. interested in Pregablin for its purported anti-s. phobia properties.
Thanks & good luck.
J.
Posted by Georgie Geordie on August 15, 2001, at 18:51:15
In reply to Re: Pregablin trial / mice tumours » Georgie Geordie, posted by JahL on August 14, 2001, at 10:23:38
i'm in glasgow.....the company is PARKE-DAVIS/PFIZER ...
you're right the UK is so apathetic they let your life drift away and just watch you deteriorate when they could do something....but always they find a way to blame the patient instead...
Pdocs here scare me....they are paid to be blind and see what they're told to see...
if its not conveniant policy to prescribe a drug...just watch how you get pushed to psychotherapy...your whole life process is criticized and even if you keep your cool...the last thing they want to do is diagnose you...
the medical system is a reflection of Britain natrually....I just keep printing stuff out from the internet...unlike america it doe'nt cost to make a doc appt...and they have to see you....so I use that method....and when the psychiatrist quotes behavioral this and that....I just quote back Neurological stuff he cant fathom...
If youre having problems with apathetic Pdocs...mail me at driveldragon@hotmail.com and I might have some theories that apply to your problem.....I have neurogenetic papers about Social phobias that turn their logic back into themselves and they dont have much to say anymore as I see them eating their behavorial psychobabbling hats
.
> > I'm in the Uk and get panic attack/anxiety.
> >
> > I'm being screened for a pregablin trial. On the notes it says that mice developed tumors at near human dose ranges but rats did not.
> >
> > What does this mean exactly...
>
> I think one's (mice?-I'm sure someone here will know) a better indicator as to what human responses will be to a given drug.
>
> I'm UK too. Am yet to meet a psychiatrist who can be bothered to get me on one of these trials, despite the fact I'm more than willing & I have responded to very little of what's currently available.
>
> I take it you're up from the North-East (I'm one of those Southern softies)? Would you be prepared to reveal whereabouts this trial is? Are they still screening for volunteers? I'm v. interested in Pregablin for its purported anti-s. phobia properties.
>
> Thanks & good luck.
> J.
Posted by JahL on August 15, 2001, at 19:38:43
In reply to Re: Pregablin trial / mice tumours, posted by Georgie Geordie on August 15, 2001, at 18:51:15
> i'm in glasgow.....the company is PARKE-DAVIS/PFIZER ...
>
> you're right the UK is so apathetic they let your life drift away and just watch you deteriorate when they could do something....but always they find a way to blame the patient instead...
>
> Pdocs here scare me....they are paid to be blind and see what they're told to see...
>
> if its not conveniant policy to prescribe a drug...just watch how you get pushed to psychotherapy...your whole life process is criticized and even if you keep your cool...the last thing they want to do is diagnose you...
>
> the medical system is a reflection of Britain natrually....I just keep printing stuff out from the internet...unlike america it doe'nt cost to make a doc appt...and they have to see you....so I use that method....and when the psychiatrist quotes behavioral this and that....I just quote back Neurological stuff he cant fathom...Wow. I have just met my double. The majority of my posts these last 9 months...condensed into 4 paragraphs.
Pdocs don't scare me as such (tho' at least one has confessed to being 'scared' of me). I'm scared for the millions of mentally ill people in this supposedly First-World country who regularly receive Third-World care.
So you've been through the enforced (in as much as if you refuse-as I initially did-you're often refused treatment full-stop) psychotherapy mill? How twisted are these individuals that pick apart your life for a living? Professional pryers. Individuals too dense to comprehend an organic model of depression.
"Yes, I was breast-fed. No, I wasn't bullied at school. No, I have not been in touch with my inner-child lately." ;-)
Sounds like you have a similar experience with pdocs generally. The private ones are no better. Just plusher surroundings & you get a cup of coffee instead of water. I'm just about to e-mail my latest one to tell him to forget our appt. I saw him on the understanding that the conversation would wholly centre upon psychopharmacological treatment. So what does he do? Spends an hour telling me to stop smoking & get some 'structure' in my life. Idiot.
I'm yet to meet a pdoc who has shown the slightest interest in any of the excerpts I've printed. Few of them seem up on the theory side of things. I don't think they like the little people telling them how they should be doing their jobs. NHS=Non-existant Health Service.
Thanks 4 the info; I may e-mail you...
J.
[for the rcd; I'm not against psychotherapy per se; just when it's touted as a cure for organic conditions. It isn't. Probably helps with enviromental depression. Wouldn't know.]
Posted by utopizen on December 9, 2002, at 7:17:52
In reply to Re: Pregablin trial / mice tumours » Georgie Geordie, posted by JahL on August 14, 2001, at 10:23:38
> > I'm in the Uk and get panic attack/anxiety.
> >
> > I'm being screened for a pregablin trial. On the notes it says that mice developed tumors at near human dose ranges but rats did not.
> >
> > What does this mean exactly...
>
> I think one's (mice?-I'm sure someone here will know) a better indicator as to what human responses will be to a given drug.
>Aren't humans a better indicator for what will happen if a drug is taken by humans? After all, did rats and mice tell us that SSRIs would make us impotent? It didn't.
Unfortunately, mice aren't fuzzy little versions of humans. The more we keep thinking that, the longer we will be away from curing mental illnesses and diseases. Real medical progress these days really does come from the non-animal models.
Unfortunately, drug co.'s like the vagueness of animal models. If something goes wrong in the drug, they can claim it didn't go wrong that way in animal testing. And while in vitro and other non-animal tests are faster and more efficient and cheaper, they require greater capital at the beginning to design or construct. Much more than breeding rats, anyway.
So basically, as long as neurology and animal behavior is filled with professors who tell their students B.F. Skinner was a God and we should name our children after him, we'll really continue to have boards like Psycho-Babble to let us share our no-gos with the drugs we take.
Speaking of B.F. Skinner, he has had one of his hallmark studies refuted- it was back in the 60's, some guy re-did his fighting test and found it had paradoxial results. It used Skinner's classic model, heating up the bottom of the cage to induce fighting. Eventually this researcher became so upset with animal research's ethics and validity issues he became devoted to anti-vivisection.
100 years from now, people are going to look back at us and think, "look at those primitives, they think mice are closer to humans than rats! As if either is a useful model!"
After all, it took centuries for Galen's work to be questioned, and now we laugh over his findings that the source of all ailments lie in "humors" (bodily fluids such as bile, etc.) So this resulted in anxiety patients being "cured" by removing people's black bile until opium replaced this in the 1700's. Yes, what would we do without black bile removal? Thanks for whoever decided to name drop Galen along the greater thinkers of our time by putting his name up on the boston public library...
I hate it when people are sort of told to praise someone repeatedly because that's what everyone has told them to do. I've always be skeptical of "heroes" that my teachers have used to name-drop repeatedly-- the names of the people you can't watch a PBS documentary over without hearing someone praise them like it was their son. Like Dewey. He screwed up the the whole school system for a century's time, and everyone talks of him like he invented water. He's responsible for schools that think it's educational to color pictures of turkeys all day. I volunteer at an after-school program, I'm not making this up. In the 1800's, kids would learn college-level geometry when they were in middle school. Now they spend thieir homework time coloring in turkeys. Am I the only one who is ticked off by this? Please, join me in social babble to continue... =)
I also think social anxiety sufferers are the "other", as my philosophy professor refers to people who find different paths to direct themselves to and think by.
Speaking of which, while I slow down this babble, I just learned last night Robert Frost's Walking in the Woods (name) poem was written after him seeing double down a wood's path. Apparently he had this as a kid and sometimes as an adult. He would see and hear things that weren't there, and his mother told him never to let anyone know because that would be dangerous.
This is the end of the thread.
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