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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by susan C on August 10, 2001, at 18:27:54
Ok, I am on Ambien for sleep, tried Sonata. pdoc said, they are best to try. Sonata didn't work long enough. I take it every night. I asked him about if there are any long time problems, no says he. It is so nice to be able to sleep all night. I apply for maintainence coverage at insurance, they have a 'independent consulting medical doctor' Who says, NO to Ambien, says there are other sleeping meds I can use. Now, I am curious to see the Battle of the Doctor vs the Insurance Co. This sounds like the Insurance doc telling my doc what to prescribe....Two questions:
1: what other sleep meds are equivalent to Ambien
2: anybody out there had a similar experience with doc/ins co.? what happened?
Posted by kazoo on August 10, 2001, at 21:35:17
In reply to Pdoc /Insurance Fight about Sleep meds, posted by susan C on August 10, 2001, at 18:27:54
> Ok, I am on Ambien for sleep, tried Sonata. pdoc said, they are best to try. Sonata didn't work long enough. I take it every night. I asked him about if there are any long time problems, no says he. It is so nice to be able to sleep all night. I apply for maintainence coverage at insurance, they have a 'independent consulting medical doctor' Who says, NO to Ambien, says there are other sleeping meds I can use. Now, I am curious to see the Battle of the Doctor vs the Insurance Co. This sounds like the Insurance doc telling my doc what to prescribe....Two questions:
> 1: what other sleep meds are equivalent to Ambien
> 2: anybody out there had a similar experience with doc/ins co.? what happened?Ask that "independent consulting medical doctor" if Seconal® (secobarbital) or Nembutal® (pentobarbital) or Amytal® (amobarbital) or Tuinal® (amobarbital-secobarbital) are on his list of sleep aids, because those are the only ones you can take, then watch how fast you get AMBIEN® (zolpidem).
Insurance companies usually hire shit-for-brain doctors. You may quote me.
kazoo
Posted by stjames on August 11, 2001, at 0:14:55
In reply to Re: Pdoc /Insurance Fight about Sleep meds » susan C, posted by kazoo on August 10, 2001, at 21:35:17
How about an non-adicting (unlike what you are take now) sedating antidepressant, in a small dose, like Remeron. Very sffective for sleep, and you do not build tolerance or addiction. Lasts all night, gives excellent sleep.
Ambien (and all the addictive sleep meds) mess with my sleep patterns while Remeron improves my sleep architecture.
james
Posted by Elizabeth on August 11, 2001, at 0:28:59
In reply to Pdoc /Insurance Fight about Sleep meds, posted by susan C on August 10, 2001, at 18:27:54
> 1: what other sleep meds are equivalent to Ambien
There aren't any.
-elizabeth
Posted by SalArmy4me on August 11, 2001, at 9:02:39
In reply to Re: Pdoc /Insurance Fight about Sleep meds, posted by stjames on August 11, 2001, at 0:14:55
I second the Remeron idea.
Posted by susan C on August 11, 2001, at 9:54:09
In reply to Re: Pdoc /Insurance Fight about Sleep meds » stjames, posted by SalArmy4me on August 11, 2001, at 9:02:39
> I second the Remeron idea.
Posted by oceanbreeze on August 11, 2001, at 14:55:44
In reply to Thanks everyone, I knew you would come through(np), posted by susan C on August 11, 2001, at 9:54:09
Trazodone works for me......
Posted by stjames on August 11, 2001, at 21:38:23
In reply to Re: Pdoc /Insurance Fight about Sleep meds » stjames, posted by SalArmy4me on August 11, 2001, at 9:02:39
> I second the Remeron idea.
James here....
Other options are TCA's (Doxipin being my fav) and Trazadone. Remeron is my first choice. I find
sedating AD's to be better sleep agents that any of the "sleeping pills". 15 mgs of Remeron and I am OUT in 30-45 mins, sleep the night (always) and don't wake up groggy. First week I was groggy, but after that no problems. Also no rebound problems if I forget to take it (or run out)james
Posted by Elizabeth on August 11, 2001, at 23:54:21
In reply to Re: Pdoc /Insurance Fight about Sleep meds, posted by stjames on August 11, 2001, at 21:38:23
The ideas of using various sedating antidepressants (mainly antihistaminic ones) is a good one. But you shouldn't expect these medications to have the same effects that Ambien does; they're very different, and it's not necessarily true that they will work for you just because Ambien worked.
-elizabeth
Posted by stjames on August 12, 2001, at 1:55:22
In reply to Re: Pdoc /Insurance Fight about Sleep meds, posted by Elizabeth on August 11, 2001, at 23:54:21
> The ideas of using various sedating antidepressants (mainly antihistaminic ones) is a good one. But you shouldn't expect these medications to have the same effects that Ambien does; they're very different, and it's not necessarily true that they will work for you just because Ambien worked.
>
> -elizabethCorrect, but you will not know till you try them.
james
Posted by Elizabeth on August 12, 2001, at 4:49:29
In reply to Re: Pdoc /Insurance Fight about Sleep meds, posted by stjames on August 12, 2001, at 1:55:22
> > The ideas of using various sedating antidepressants (mainly antihistaminic ones) is a good one. But you shouldn't expect these medications to have the same effects that Ambien does; they're very different, and it's not necessarily true that they will work for you just because Ambien worked.
>
> Correct, but you will not know till you try them.That's true, and they are worth trying (although they tend to have much more side effects than Ambien). But an insurance company that claims that trazodone or temazepam is a reasonable *substitute* for Ambien is just lying (or at least, mistaken -- I tend to assume the worst about insurance companies, of course).
-elizabeth
Posted by susan C on August 12, 2001, at 12:55:39
In reply to Re: Pdoc /Insurance Fight about Sleep meds » stjames, posted by Elizabeth on August 12, 2001, at 4:49:29
> > > The ideas of using various sedating antidepressants (mainly antihistaminic ones) is a good one. But you shouldn't expect these medications to have the same effects that Ambien does; they're very different, and it's not necessarily true that they will work for you just because Ambien worked.
> >
> > Correct, but you will not know till you try them.
>
> That's true, and they are worth trying (although they tend to have much more side effects than Ambien). But an insurance company that claims that trazodone or temazepam is a reasonable *substitute* for Ambien is just lying (or at least, mistaken -- I tend to assume the worst about insurance companies, of course).
>
> -elizabethHi, All,
I appreciate the suggestions, and I am making a list. However, two words jump out at me:
Trazadone: I took it for 8 years and it stopped working, as well as its relatives.
Antihistamine: Causes Severe suicidal ideation in me within 48 hours. (dimatap, allegra)I am not versed in pharmacology. When these words are used are they the same class of drug and therefor likely to cause the same or lack of any effects in me?
thanks for your patience.
-s
Posted by Emme on August 13, 2001, at 7:57:06
In reply to Pdoc /Insurance Fight about Sleep meds, posted by susan C on August 10, 2001, at 18:27:54
Hi. Seroquel has helped me sleep through the night. I needed only 25 mg - YMMV. And I wasn't zonked the next morning.
Ridiculous that the insurance company is telling your doctor what not to prescribe.Emme
> Ok, I am on Ambien for sleep, tried Sonata. pdoc said, they are best to try. Sonata didn't work long enough. I take it every night. I asked him about if there are any long time problems, no says he. It is so nice to be able to sleep all night. I apply for maintainence coverage at insurance, they have a 'independent consulting medical doctor' Who says, NO to Ambien, says there are other sleeping meds I can use. Now, I am curious to see the Battle of the Doctor vs the Insurance Co. This sounds like the Insurance doc telling my doc what to prescribe....Two questions:
> 1: what other sleep meds are equivalent to Ambien
> 2: anybody out there had a similar experience with doc/ins co.? what happened?
Posted by Bill L on August 13, 2001, at 8:56:15
In reply to Re: Pdoc /Insurance Fight about Sleep meds » susan C, posted by Emme on August 13, 2001, at 7:57:06
Remeron causes significant weight gain in many (or most) people. It can also cause day time drowsiness. If Ambien works for you, you should fight to stay on it.
Posted by stjames on August 13, 2001, at 10:40:19
In reply to Remeron causes weight gain, posted by Bill L on August 13, 2001, at 8:56:15
> Remeron causes significant weight gain in many (or most) people. It can also cause day time drowsiness. If Ambien works for you, you should fight to stay on it.
james here...Not for me at the lower doses, nor does it cause any day time drowsiness
Posted by Amy Blue on August 13, 2001, at 11:32:50
In reply to Re: Remeron causes weight gain, posted by stjames on August 13, 2001, at 10:40:19
James, does Remeron help for depression/anxiety? If that's what you're taking it for.. Are you taking anything else? Is it safe to take Remeron with Wellbutrin?
Thx,
Amy> james here...
>
> Not for me at the lower doses, nor does it cause any day time drowsiness
Posted by stjames on August 13, 2001, at 15:40:02
In reply to Re: Remeron - stjames, posted by Amy Blue on August 13, 2001, at 11:32:50
> James, does Remeron help for depression/anxiety? If that's what you're taking it for.. Are you taking anything else? Is it safe to take Remeron with Wellbutrin?
James here....
Yes it is very effective for depression and anxiety. I take it for sleep and to augment
Effexor. I take both for very major depression
(in remission for 19 yrs) and ADD.james
Posted by Steeler Tookahn on August 13, 2001, at 19:44:49
In reply to Pdoc /Insurance Fight about Sleep meds, posted by susan C on August 10, 2001, at 18:27:54
> Ok, I am on Ambien for sleep, tried Sonata. pdoc said, they are best to try. Sonata didn't work long enough. I take it every night. I asked him about if there are any long time problems, no says he. It is so nice to be able to sleep all night. I apply for maintainence coverage at insurance, they have a 'independent consulting medical doctor' Who says, NO to Ambien, says there are other sleeping meds I can use. Now, I am curious to see the Battle of the Doctor vs the Insurance Co. This sounds like the Insurance doc telling my doc what to prescribe....Two questions:
> 1: what other sleep meds are equivalent to Ambien
> 2: anybody out there had a similar experience with doc/ins co.? what happened?When it comes to a prescription battle with the insurance company, the prescribing doc almost always wins. The ins. companies hope that by making the process of getting the decision onerous, that the doctor won't bother.
My doctor was always good about getting on the phone and asking to speak to the idiot who just decided to take me on as a patient by prescribing medication for me. They reversed themselves quickly.
Let's hope you have the same experience.
Posted by Elizabeth on August 15, 2001, at 18:36:35
In reply to Ok, here is a puzzle, posted by susan C on August 12, 2001, at 12:55:39
> I appreciate the suggestions, and I am making a list. However, two words jump out at me:
> Trazadone: I took it for 8 years and it stopped working, as well as its relatives.
> Antihistamine: Causes Severe suicidal ideation in me within 48 hours. (dimatap, allegra)Hi. I think something else might have been up with the two anti-allergy meds that you tried. Allegra isn't supposed to be centrally active at all (i.e., it doesn't cross the "blood-brain barrier" readily). And many antidepressants are also strong antihistamines; for example, amitriptyline, doxepin, mirtazapine (Remeron), and trazodone.
-elizabeth
Posted by susan C on August 16, 2001, at 18:01:08
In reply to Re: Pdoc /Insurance Fight about Sleep meds, posted by Steeler Tookahn on August 13, 2001, at 19:44:49
> > Ok, I am on Ambien for sleep, tried Sonata. pdoc said, they are best to try. Sonata didn't work long enough. I take it every night. I asked him about if there are any long time problems, no says he. It is so nice to be able to sleep all night. I apply for maintainence coverage at insurance, they have a 'independent consulting medical doctor' Who says, NO to Ambien, says there are other sleeping meds I can use. Now, I am curious to see the Battle of the Doctor vs the Insurance Co. This sounds like the Insurance doc telling my doc what to prescribe....Two questions:
> > 1: what other sleep meds are equivalent to Ambien
> > 2: anybody out there had a similar experience with doc/ins co.? what happened?
>
> When it comes to a prescription battle with the insurance company, the prescribing doc almost always wins. The ins. companies hope that by making the process of getting the decision onerous, that the doctor won't bother.
> My doctor was always good about getting on the phone and asking to speak to the idiot who just decided to take me on as a patient by prescribing medication for me. They reversed themselves quickly.
> Let's hope you have the same experience.
Posted by susan C on September 24, 2001, at 18:29:02
In reply to Pdoc /Insurance Fight about Sleep meds, posted by susan C on August 10, 2001, at 18:27:54
My medical advocate (husband) wrote a very pointed letter to insurance asking why a doctor who had never seen me was giving medical advice. Copied my doc. Just received a letter from insurance oking Ambien as maintenance (which means 100% coverage, equals about 10$ savings for me a month in co-pay) hub, likes a good fight...when went to pdoc, first thing he said, was 'very good letter, couldn't have written it better myself' End of story. Thanks for all your imputs...liked the use of term 'idiot'...took me a while to find this thread so I could be consistant.
proud mouse
susan c> Ok, I am on Ambien for sleep, tried Sonata. pdoc said, they are best to try. Sonata didn't work long enough. I take it every night. I asked him about if there are any long time problems, no says he. It is so nice to be able to sleep all night. I apply for maintainence coverage at insurance, they have a 'independent consulting medical doctor' Who says, NO to Ambien, says there are other sleeping meds I can use. Now, I am curious to see the Battle of the Doctor vs the Insurance Co. This sounds like the Insurance doc telling my doc what to prescribe....Two questions:
> 1: what other sleep meds are equivalent to Ambien
> 2: anybody out there had a similar experience with doc/ins co.? what happened?
This is the end of the thread.
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