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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by akrake on August 8, 2001, at 8:29:35
I'm preplexed. yesterday, approx. 1-2 hours after i took my wellbutrin sr (150mg), i experienced the most awful RAGE. my 4 & 2 yr old were acting like kids....maybe a bit more irritating than usual, but i just couldn't stand it. i put them in the car and we went to the park right after the 1st rage so they could vent their excess energy.....turning the radio on loud seemed to chill me out.
the second rage (1 hour after dosage) occured because they were acting like the biggest brats in the world....fighting and climbing all over me while they fought...each one wanting to be the only on my lap...and all the while i'm trying to talk on the phone! needless to say, i was pretty pissed.....i had to go outside for about 5 mintues...ALONE. then i came in and put each in their own room....then they pissed me off again because they'd snuck in to each other's room and were playing. i put them back in their own rooms and took a half a klonopin.
what gives....i'm starting my 31st day on wellbutrin....i wanted to take this stuff to control my mood swings...but it's starting to make things worse. i guess maybe i should use more klonopin to get thru the rough parts....but i have some days that i do well on the wellbutrin, and other days are the worst.
i spent 4 hours (too long) searching the archives to try to find a solution. i don't know if it's too early to try to add prozac into the mix.
any advice will be appreciated.
amie
Posted by Cam W. on August 8, 2001, at 9:00:57
In reply to 2 rage incidents in one day with wellbutrin, posted by akrake on August 8, 2001, at 8:29:35
Amie - Only 2? These delayed rage reactions with Wellbutrin are quite common. They appear 3 to 4 weeks (sometimes later) into treatment (just as the drug seems to start working) and last a couple of weeks. They do seem to go away, in most people. It also seems (I have no proof) that this may be the body's signal that the Wellbutrin is beginning to work.
You are going to have to try to explain to the kids (and sig. other) that this is the way mommy is going to be for a week or two. Tell them that you are not mad at them, but are feeling badly at the moment. I know that it is not easy to this. When you feel like blowing up, remove yourself from the situation (as you have been doing), count to ten, and tell yourself that it is the drug that is making you mad.
Hang in there; this shall pass - (been there) Cam
Posted by SalArmy4me on August 8, 2001, at 10:00:50
In reply to 2 rage incidents in one day with wellbutrin, posted by akrake on August 8, 2001, at 8:29:35
http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/split/Irritability-from-medicati.html
Posted by terra miller on August 8, 2001, at 11:32:44
In reply to 2 rage incidents in one day with wellbutrin, posted by akrake on August 8, 2001, at 8:29:35
amie,
sigh. i know it's hard. cam gave you such thoughtful and understanding advice. you're in the tough phase. this is when the rage, if you're going to have it i suppose, was REALLY tough for me. (the 4-6 week mark) and also for me it was my kids that set me off. i think it's because i'm doing all that i can to cope and when they do something to get in my face, or be too loud, or a sudden & startling move... i would just lose it! it sounds like you are still using your wits to do what is right and remove yourself from the situation. it sounds like you handled both situations very well.
cam was right when he asked, "only 2?" there were times when it was more the norm that i was rageful then not. i have also had "the talk" with my own kids. we actually made a joke of it (my then 7 y/o and me.) i would say that mommy needs to take her "crabby medicine" (ativan) and she would smile and laugh.... it was really a relief to her i think to know that mom was on top of it and recognized the unacceptable behavior. i also have a 4 y/o currently. i think he would be able to understand that concept of "being crabby" for a while. do you think your 4 y/o would? i don't think i recommend hiding your situation from your kids. kids always seem to know more than we think or want to think they do.
even without meds/stuff, raising a 2 and 4 y/o is tough. these are the really taxing years of childraising. once mine hit 5, i could reason with them. i have also read elsewhere (where??) that the age of 4 is when we humans have the most energy in our entire lives. having done this with three kids now, i would concur! make the park your friend.... and getting outdoors will also help you focus. also not letting yourself get overheated in the summer heat will help you stay calm. i rented a bunch of calming kids movies from the library and actually laid on the floor with my kids and allowed myself to watch them and just rest my brain. we watched christmas videos, which will do wonders for helping you stay cool in the summer, plus it brings back all those fond magical childhood memories/wishes. i also kept a 2 pound bag of plain m&m's available at all times! :-) that was my spouse's job actually. now, i've moved up to peppermint patties. (he buys them for me by the case and stores them in the fridge..... when you're on wellbutrin and if you lose weight, you can eat peppermint patties whenever you want and it doesn't matter! ha!)
back to the rage.... now is the time to make that klonopin your friend. don't be afraid to take it as prescribed. i didn't want to take my ativan... i wanted to tough it out. but it really was the smart thing to do to take it. it won't always be like this. this is a wellbutrin phase and you want something that can help you now. prozac is helpful, yes, but it's one of those long term helpful meds. oh... and try to cut back on the caffeine if you can. i found this extremely helpful.
you should know that when i hit this stage it was also cam who helped me know that i wasn't a nut! it really does help to know that this happens and that it gets better. but when you are in it you think you've lost all your marbles. shoot for 6 weeks. just shoot for that. it may or may not let up by then, but at least it's got you looking ahead to a goal but not so far ahead that it looks impossible.
again, it sounds like you made some really good parenting choices. we're here for you.
-terra
Posted by akrake on August 8, 2001, at 13:31:15
In reply to Re: 2 rage incidents in one day with wellbutrin » akrake, posted by terra miller on August 8, 2001, at 11:32:44
> back to the rage.... now is the time to make that klonopin your friend. don't be afraid to take it as prescribed. i didn't want to take my ativan... i wanted to tough it outyes, this is exactly what's going on with me...i've had the bottle of klonopoin for 2 months and have only take 2.5 pills! it didn't even occur to me for about 3+ weeks that i even had them in the cabinet! so yes, i will take them when i "NEED" them.
>prozac is helpful, yes, but it's one of those long term helpful meds. oh... and try to cut back on the caffeine if you can. i found this extremely helpful.
i'm down to one cup of coffe in the morning...i was at 2 or 3...but i've naturally been cutting it back...i assumed it was the meds. i'm going to hold off on the prozac until i've made it at least 6-8 weeks. i was just at a loss last night...grasping for any straw.
>thanks to all of you for your input. it's a really scary time for me right now.
> amie
Posted by akrake on August 8, 2001, at 13:37:02
In reply to Re: 2 rage incidents in one day with wellbutrin » akrake, posted by Cam W. on August 8, 2001, at 9:00:57
> Amie - Only 2?
Well, only 2 that i will admit to!!!! those 2 were really bad...i put the kids in the car and ran back inside and slammed a frying pan against my ceramic tile counter top.....it now has a nice little chip. i guess it adds character!
>
> You are going to have to try to explain to the kids (and sig. other) that this is the way mommy is going to be for a week or two. Tell them that you are not mad at them, but are feeling badly at the moment.It seems that everynight I'm tell my 4 yr old that i'm sorry about how i acted and that i'm trying to get better but it'll take time. i feel really guilty about it. i can tell she's hurt by it because she doesn't want to talk about it or even hear me talk about it....she turns her head away. and what kills me is that reaction pisses me off too!
i'll hang in there. it's all i can too, right?
amie
Posted by Wendy B. on August 8, 2001, at 14:16:49
In reply to 2 rage incidents in one day with wellbutrin, posted by akrake on August 8, 2001, at 8:29:35
Amie,
Taking care of a 2 and a 4 yr old every day is HELL! You have so many needs to attend to! Give yourself a break! You don't have to be SuperMom who never rages... They even can understand, you know, because they're kids. They experience their emotions very viscerally. Tell them, "You cry and carry on when you don't get what you want, so does Mommy once in a while!..." And leave it at that.
I've been on Wellbutrin for 6-7 months. It is a good drug for me. I still have occasional meltdowns in my daughter's presence. But far fewer than when I started the meds (different ones) 6 yrs ago. Before the meds, I was such an anxiety-ridden mess, as a working, single mom with no support (as in a significant-other type of daily support). I raised my daughter every day by myself, and had a lot of anger and resentment and fear and sadness.
We still might have the occasional outburst, though. More recently, my 9-yr old was driving me nutty over her music lessons and practicing. I threw a Copco strainer utensil on the kitchen floor in anger. It was supposedly manufactured of unbreakable plastic-resin. And guess who broke it? Moi!
She was in the living room, though, so it wasn't at her or toward her in any way. I was just doing it for effect, really... Like: "I'm pissed, and I'm gonna show you just how much!" She ran to her room and continued crying. I cooled off, we had a talk about it in which I apologized. We kissed & hugged, and I told her I was working on it with my therapist. She saw a child-psychologist last year, so she knows there are "feelings doctors" who can talk to you if you have a problem, etc.
I just try to be out in the open with her, as much as she can understand conceptually about my illness. I don't say to her: I have a debilitating mental illness, or whatever. I don't want her to think I'm going to try to kill myself, like Sally Field did on "ER," twice. There are too many TV representations of mental illness as: this is what crazy, wacko, nuts, people do when they get upset. They die and disappear on their children. She just can't understand that some people really DO get to that point, she doesn't relate to dysthymia or psychotic episodes, etc., cuz she's a happy child. Luckily!
Anyway, this is all to say: you are going through an adjustment period to your meds. Cam says it won't last long. Whenever you can, get away from the kids - use your husband, babysitter, mother's helper, neighbors, etc., to watch them, and do something you want to do, something for you, not for anyone else. That will relieve the pressure built up in your Anger-Valve for a little while at least. Hope this is possible for you.
Any time you want to vent here, go ahead, it's a help, people are listening...
;-] Wendy
> I'm preplexed. yesterday, approx. 1-2 hours after i took my wellbutrin sr (150mg), i experienced the most awful RAGE. my 4 & 2 yr old were acting like kids....maybe a bit more irritating than usual, but i just couldn't stand it. i put them in the car and we went to the park right after the 1st rage so they could vent their excess energy.....turning the radio on loud seemed to chill me out.
>
> the second rage (1 hour after dosage) occured because they were acting like the biggest brats in the world....fighting and climbing all over me while they fought...each one wanting to be the only on my lap...and all the while i'm trying to talk on the phone! needless to say, i was pretty pissed.....i had to go outside for about 5 mintues...ALONE. then i came in and put each in their own room....then they pissed me off again because they'd snuck in to each other's room and were playing. i put them back in their own rooms and took a half a klonopin.
>
> what gives....i'm starting my 31st day on wellbutrin....i wanted to take this stuff to control my mood swings...but it's starting to make things worse. i guess maybe i should use more klonopin to get thru the rough parts....but i have some days that i do well on the wellbutrin, and other days are the worst.
>
> i spent 4 hours (too long) searching the archives to try to find a solution. i don't know if it's too early to try to add prozac into the mix.
>
> any advice will be appreciated.
>
> amie
Posted by terra miller on August 8, 2001, at 20:21:18
In reply to ok, it was more than 2! » Cam W., posted by akrake on August 8, 2001, at 13:37:02
....i downright have "2 year old fits" sometimes. i have 3 chips in my stove/range where i beat it with something (i have no idea what).....
i know this is scary now. i'm sorry that it's scary now.
wendy made a good point i forgot to mention. and this is that i have had and still have times when i just get so mad i can't think and my spouse is getting used to it/reading the signs... and i go into the bedroom and lock the door and don't come out until i am in a better frame of mind. sometimes that means an entire weekend. i'm not kidding. but if i'm just going to come out and scream at my family, it's best if i just stay away until i can deal with whatever i really need to deal with which is making me get angry. now, all that said it's not the wellbutrin that's "sent me to my room," but the application is still appropriate. you may just have to give yourself a "time out." :-) -terra
Posted by anna on August 9, 2001, at 0:59:13
In reply to while we're getting honest :-) » akrake, posted by terra miller on August 8, 2001, at 20:21:18
> ....i downright have "2 year old fits" sometimes. i have 3 chips in my stove/range where i beat it with something (i have no idea what).....
>
> i know this is scary now. i'm sorry that it's scary now.
>
> wendy made a good point i forgot to mention. and this is that i have had and still have times when i just get so mad i can't think and my spouse is getting used to it/reading the signs... and i go into the bedroom and lock the door and don't come out until i am in a better frame of mind. sometimes that means an entire weekend. i'm not kidding. but if i'm just going to come out and scream at my family, it's best if i just stay away until i can deal with whatever i really need to deal with which is making me get angry. now, all that said it's not the wellbutrin that's "sent me to my room," but the application is still appropriate. you may just have to give yourself a "time out." :-) -terraBoy you took the words right out of my mouth terra. I had a "mommy" time out this past Sunday. Daddy and kiddos got home from church and I accidently spilled my drink and said "Sh*t" Well my DH told me to watch my language. That made me furious, I was already ashamed from my outburst in front of my girls (ages 3 and almost 5) so I went to my bedroom and meditated for 2 hours.
Parenting is hard for people who feel normal Amie, so try not to beat yourself up (this is where I need to take my own advice, lol)
O.K. I will lay myself out to you all here. I am also on wellbutrin and am stubborn, will not take my klonopin until it is too late (after an outburst is too late!!!) Well today I was trying to write out bills with no money, my 3 year old was whining/crying, my 1 year old boy who is usually easy is teething horribly, and my 5 year old was pissed because they would not shut up. Ya'll, I lost it, instead of taking a time out this time, I said (in a loud voice) "Will you all just be f*cking quiet so I can get these d*mn bills paid!!??!?!" I could not belive this was my own voice. I have never said the "F" word in front of the kids. I hardly say that word period!
You are not alone. My 5 year old then came up to my 3 year old and put her arms around her as if to protect her , looking at me like I was some foreigner. I felt like total and complete SHIT.
I then took my Klonopin. lol. I am not really laughing but from now on until I feel better I WILL take mine as it is prescribed (2 times a day)Hang in there, vent all you want, I feel better myself even though you all probably think I am awful!!! :)
Anna~
Posted by akrake on August 9, 2001, at 7:38:08
In reply to Re: while we're getting honest :-), posted by anna on August 9, 2001, at 0:59:13
>
> O.K. I will lay myself out to you all here. I am also on wellbutrin and am stubborn, will not take my klonopin until it is too late (after an outburst is too late!!!) Well today I was trying to write out bills with no money, my 3 year old was whining/crying, my 1 year old boy who is usually easy is teething horribly, and my 5 year old was pissed because they would not shut up. Ya'll, I lost it, instead of taking a time out this time, I said (in a loud voice) "Will you all just be f*cking quiet so I can get these d*mn bills paid!!??!?!" I could not belive this was my own voice. I have never said the "F" word in front of the kids. I hardly say that word period!are we the same person?????
> I then took my Klonopin. lol. I am not really laughing but from now on until I feel better I WILL take mine as it is prescribed (2 times a day)
>i always take it too late too! but it's cause i can't drive or do anything except veg after i take it!
> Hang in there, vent all you want, I feel better myself even though you all probably think I am awful!!! :)
no, i don't think your awful....just really similar to me!!!
we can support each other!amie
Posted by akrake on August 9, 2001, at 7:41:39
In reply to Re: 2 rage incidents with wellbutrin/ parenting » akrake, posted by Wendy B. on August 8, 2001, at 14:16:49
> > Anyway, this is all to say: you are going through an adjustment period to your meds. Cam says it won't last long. Whenever you can, get away from the kids - use your husband, babysitter, mother's helper, neighbors, etc., to watch them, and do something you want to do, something for you, not for anyone else. That will relieve the pressure built up in your Anger-Valve for a little while at least. Hope this is possible for you.
> >
>thank you for the advice....tonight my husband and i are going out....albiet to a dinner meeting...but at least it's something....and since it's our 10 year anniversary...i'm going to try not to get piss that he got me a shitty present...(yes, i peaked)....he got me the thing i said i REALLY didn't want...a crystal picture frame....go figure.
anyway, thanks for the support.
amie
Posted by paxvox on August 9, 2001, at 11:21:49
In reply to Re: 2 rage incidents with wellbutrin/ parenting » Wendy B., posted by akrake on August 9, 2001, at 7:41:39
Amie,
If the clonazepam (Klonoin) whipes you out, why not ask for a less-potent benzo like chlorazepate(Tranzene)? I am surprised that you have that kind of trouble, what is your mg dosing?
Posted by terra miller on August 10, 2001, at 2:07:35
In reply to Re: while we're getting honest :-) » anna, posted by akrake on August 9, 2001, at 7:38:08
i'm seeing a common thread here.... moms with young kids... moms who really want to be good mommies... moms who are also dealing with their own "stuff"..... moms who don't take their benzos as prescribed! :-) should we all be learning a lesson here? *grimace*
i personally identified that i was getting increasingly irritable with my kids in the late afternoon the past week and it was puzzling me until today when i realized that i'd been postponing my afternoon dose. (ie: "i'll get around to taking that next dose eventually this afternoon.") i'd forgotten that for me irritability is a major sign that i'm past due for my next dose of wellbutrin. (DUH!) so, i've re-determined to enforce my previously rigid but extremely successful dosing routine. i'm certain my irritability was from waiting too long between doses. f.y.i.
thanks for the honesty, ladies.
-terra
Posted by anna on August 11, 2001, at 22:43:49
In reply to irritability and time btn. doses, posted by terra miller on August 10, 2001, at 2:07:35
> i'm seeing a common thread here.... moms with young kids... moms who really want to be good mommies... moms who are also dealing with their own "stuff"..... moms who don't take their benzos as prescribed! :-) should we all be learning a lesson here? *grimace*
>
> i personally identified that i was getting increasingly irritable with my kids in the late afternoon the past week and it was puzzling me until today when i realized that i'd been postponing my afternoon dose. (ie: "i'll get around to taking that next dose eventually this afternoon.") i'd forgotten that for me irritability is a major sign that i'm past due for my next dose of wellbutrin. (DUH!) so, i've re-determined to enforce my previously rigid but extremely successful dosing routine. i'm certain my irritability was from waiting too long between doses. f.y.i.
>
> thanks for the honesty, ladies.
>
> -terraAmie and terra, I thank God I have you two I can relate to. I have taken my meds right for the past 2 days and have been somewhat better with the kids but I have also worked all weekend and am exhausted!! I am a nurse doing private duty and my whole body hurts. Anyway, I don't have to work again til Thurs. We'll see how it goes. I am going to hold you two gals accountable also, hee hee! We moms are all alike, and kids are just stressful, but also precious at the same time. Catch you gals later...
Anna
Posted by terra miller on August 12, 2001, at 20:44:21
In reply to Re: irritability and time btn. doses » terra miller, posted by anna on August 11, 2001, at 22:43:49
hi. feeling somewhat defeated but not completely, i've had to go back to 75mg 4x/day. i had dropped down to 3x/day and it just wasn't enough. so for the last few days i've returned to 4x/day-- where i'd been for months previously-- and have found i'm less irritable. (yes, i've learned not to mess with things when they are good.) i also took my first xanax today when we went to spouse's family reunion (i was NOT in the mood for this! *grin*) and was relieved that it helped me quite quickly to stop biting my spouse/kids' heads off in the car. -terra
Posted by Wendy B. on August 15, 2001, at 2:25:10
In reply to Re: irritability and doses/update » anna, posted by terra miller on August 12, 2001, at 20:44:21
> hi. feeling somewhat defeated but not completely, i've had to go back to 75mg 4x/day. i had dropped down to 3x/day and it just wasn't enough. so for the last few days i've returned to 4x/day-- where i'd been for months previously-- and have found i'm less irritable. (yes, i've learned not to mess with things when they are good.) i also took my first xanax today when we went to spouse's family reunion (i was NOT in the mood for this! *grin*) and was relieved that it helped me quite quickly to stop biting my spouse/kids' heads off in the car. -terra
yeah, xanax - it's a life-saver! i took it all through a very difficult courtroom proceeding over child custody and $ support for my daughter. this was 6 yrs ago now, but i remember like it was yesterday, going into the ladies' room at the courthouse and popping more when i needed to. i still have a scrip for it, for as-needed dosing. it can be very helpful for me from time to time.
it's not a defeat to try a lower dose of the ativan and find it's just not the proper level for you...!
as though a certain number of milligrams is ok, but another is not. it's just good you have your crabby-medicine, and that it works...xox,
Wendy
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