![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Else on July 25, 2001, at 22:14:53
Ok. I've been wanting to obtain Parnate for over a year now, to no avail. Changing pdoc is very complicated in the True North Strong and Free so I am stuck with the pdoc I have (Whom I like BTW). SSRIs do not work for me, they make me feel worse. I have GAD, SP and atypical depression or atypical dysthymia, it doesn't matter anyway, I just feel bad 95% of the time. Not horrible, but bad and I hate it. Now, there is this possibility that stimulants or MAOIs could help me but I can't get them because my doctor doesn't believe I'm responsible enough too avoid cheese. He's protecting his own ass I know but is this fair to me? Do I have to feel crappy just so he can avoid getting sued (which he wont be).
I'm not suicidal, I behave, I'm in a job-finding program, I take my meds as prescribed (even "addictive" ones like Rivotril), I haven't done drugs in 6 months and don't intend to so why is he torturing me?
I read that Eldepryl produces "remission with DELIGHT", "something SSRIs rarely do". I WANT delight. I FELT delight on Parnate, I want it back. I am so sick of feeling like I'm a bad (sinful)person for wanting to feel delightful. When I ask for potentially addictive or just plain pleasant drugs, it's always with a pathetic lack of confidence and I don't get them.
What is so wrong with feeling good? I've felt crappy all my miserable life. Why do I have to take all these s----y drugs that make me feel awful when I know for a fact MAOIS work better. Is this catholic guilt? I am not catholic but was raised catholic and so was everyone here including doctors. Most of those that have gone to med school in the fifties and sixties had priests as professors. They're scientists but they have this catholic way of thinking too ( blessed are the meek (miserable) for they shall inherit the earth and all that BS (except them of course, who are the strong and already have it)). I read Nietzsche's Genealogy of morals and all and think he is so very right about our moral paradigm being a human invention but why can't this stupid guilt leave my head. Why can't I ask for Valium or Dexedrine or Parnate without feeling like I'm confessing to being a zoophile. Why??? I am so sick of society's attitude, I am sick of my own attitude. I read posts about people just plainly saying "Should I switch to Dexedrine?" like that was the simplest thing in the world. I would feel shameful asking for this however stupid that might sound. And I would be convinced my pdoc would see me as a drug-seeking piece of human gargbage (I once heard a radio shrink here say that drug addicts were no longer human beings but mere garbage. This was a psychiatrist, MD and all).
I hate this. And so what if I was a drug-seeker. Drug-seekers seek drugs because they feel bad. What is wrong with wanting to feel good? I'm not looking for answers here, I just want to complain. The system sucks.
Posted by Willow on July 25, 2001, at 22:42:11
In reply to RANT. This is NOT fair. I hate it !!!!, posted by Else on July 25, 2001, at 22:14:53
> I hate this. And so what if I was a drug-seeker. Drug-seekers seek drugs because they feel bad. What is wrong with wanting to feel good? I'm not looking for answers here, I just want to complain. The system sucks.The doctors up here are as paranoid as their patients. I agree with you!!
Willow
Posted by Kim on July 26, 2001, at 0:52:25
In reply to RANT. This is NOT fair. I hate it !!!!, posted by Else on July 25, 2001, at 22:14:53
Else,
I know you didn't ask for information, but I just can't help myself. After going through virtually every kind of antidepressant there was, my pdoc put me on Parnate--which was the first thing that made me feel like there was hope. It wasn't quite enough, though, and so we augmented it with dexedrine. I was fine on these drugs for 2 years--delight? Sometimes--but mostly I just felt like I was a real, normal human being. That I was as good as anyone else. That I could do the things I wanted to do and were expected of me without feeling "sick." As for the diet, I pretty much gradually ignored it and never had a problem. Then we got transferred to another state.I waltzed into my new pdoc expecting that he would just renew my prescriptions--no big deal, right, since I'd been on them so long? But no, he went ballistic at the dexedrine. Didn't I know that was considered a "dangerous" combination? Well, yes, I was well aware of the risks but I'm a grown up and I've been taking them and haven't had any problems. He immediately set out to cure me of my "dexedrine addiction."
So he gradually took me off the dexedrine and I gradually went downhill. Finally I was off the dexedrine and feeling like crap; so he decided that the Parnate must not be working since I felt like crap. So he took me off that too.
That was the bottom of my life--the only time I've seriously considered suicide. Fortunately my therapist was not my pdoc. When my therapist saw what was happening, he advised me to find a new pdoc--actually said if I didn't do it he would do it for me.
The new pdoc was also taken aback by the dexedrine, but he put me back on the Parnate immediately. I've been back on the Parnate for over two years now. What would it be like to feel joy or delight? I don't know. My pdoc is experimenting with augmenting my Parnate with different drugs, the latest is imipramine--now there's a combination that gets attention at the pharmacist's window. I had to have an EEG before he prescribed it and have to monitor my blood pressure,and I'm more careful about the diet than I was before, but I have had no problems. The imipramine helps--I can get out of bed and sometimes act almost like a real person.
At my last visit, my pdoc said that if the imipramine doesn't do it, he's going to put me back on the dexedrine. I think I have had to prove that I'm a "good girl" and will take care of myself.
Maybe if you stick with your pdoc for awhile, he'll get to know you better and trust you enough to give you an MAOI. (Dr. Bob has a copy of the "new" diet on his website.)
Geez, sorry this got so long. I mostly just wanted to comisserate and tell you and your pdoc, that yes, there are times when only MAOIs will work, and yes, you can take them without having any side effects.
Best of Luck,
Kim
Posted by jojo on July 26, 2001, at 2:07:34
In reply to RANT. This is NOT fair. I hate it !!!!, posted by Else on July 25, 2001, at 22:14:53
> Ok. I've been wanting to obtain Parnate for over a year now, to no avail. Changing pdoc is very complicated in the True North Strong and Free so I am stuck with the pdoc I have (Whom I like BTW). SSRIs do not work for me, they make me feel worse. I have GAD, SP and atypical depression or atypical dysthymia, it doesn't matter anyway, I just feel bad 95% of the time. Not horrible, but bad and I hate it. Now, there is this possibility that stimulants or MAOIs could help me but I can't get them because my doctor doesn't believe I'm responsible enough too avoid cheese. He's protecting his own ass I know but is this fair to me? Do I have to feel crappy just so he can avoid getting sued (which he wont be).
>
> I'm not suicidal, I behave, I'm in a job-finding program, I take my meds as prescribed (even "addictive" ones like Rivotril), I haven't done drugs in 6 months and don't intend to so why is he torturing me?
>
> I read that Eldepryl produces "remission with DELIGHT", "something SSRIs rarely do". I WANT delight. I FELT delight on Parnate, I want it back. I am so sick of feeling like I'm a bad (sinful)person for wanting to feel delightful. When I ask for potentially addictive or just plain pleasant drugs, it's always with a pathetic lack of confidence and I don't get them.
>
> What is so wrong with feeling good? I've felt crappy all my miserable life. Why do I have to take all these s----y drugs that make me feel awful when I know for a fact MAOIS work better. Is this catholic guilt? I am not catholic but was raised catholic and so was everyone here including doctors. Most of those that have gone to med school in the fifties and sixties had priests as professors. They're scientists but they have this catholic way of thinking too ( blessed are the meek (miserable) for they shall inherit the earth and all that BS (except them of course, who are the strong and already have it)). I read Nietzsche's Genealogy of morals and all and think he is so very right about our moral paradigm being a human invention but why can't this stupid guilt leave my head. Why can't I ask for Valium or Dexedrine or Parnate without feeling like I'm confessing to being a zoophile. Why??? I am so sick of society's attitude, I am sick of my own attitude. I read posts about people just plainly saying "Should I switch to Dexedrine?" like that was the simplest thing in the world. I would feel shameful asking for this however stupid that might sound. And I would be convinced my pdoc would see me as a drug-seeking piece of human gargbage (I once heard a radio shrink here say that drug addicts were no longer human beings but mere garbage. This was a psychiatrist, MD and all).
>
> I hate this. And so what if I was a drug-seeker. Drug-seekers seek drugs because they feel bad. What is wrong with wanting to feel good? I'm not looking for answers here, I just want to complain. The system sucks.Sorry to have to be the one to point it out, Else,
but we're dealing with two problems here. One is
your being afraid to ask (especially since it's
not easy to switch docs where you live, and the
other is the possibility that he won't, or can't,
give it to you. Possibly you can check out the laws,
and if it's legal, arrange for the physician to
"think" of MAOIs. This may take some time, and it's
unfortunate that you have to play these games,
but people seem to be clearely more fond of their
own ideas rather than those of others. It took
me 5 years to get my Phsychiatrist to think if
prescribing stimulants, even though I was takeing
Dexadrine from the Lab. where I worked when I first
came to her. Being conservative, it turned out
that I was not taking them regularly and in sufficient
dose to build up resistance to some
of the initial effects. I clenched my jaw at 10 mg.
even though I can now take 35 mg., in conjunction
with AD, with no "Adverse Affects".
Posted by JohnL on July 26, 2001, at 4:23:09
In reply to RANT. This is NOT fair. I hate it !!!!, posted by Else on July 25, 2001, at 22:14:53
.... I'm not looking for answers here, I just want to complain. The system sucks.Hi,
I agree. That's why after ten years of the system I finally took matters into my own hands. I do not recommend self-medication or overseas medicines to most people, but for me that turned out to be the magical way to go. After ten years, I knew more about the drugs than any of my doctors. I was actually more qualified, just based on research and experience, to manage my own affairs than any doctor. I know you like your doctor, but if you really want to get well you may have to do whatever it takes to find another one who will cooperate with you.You may find that bargaining with your current doc will work. For example, simply ask for a one or two week trial of whatever drug you want. That way the risk is very low, and commitment is very low. You then at least have a foot in the door, and then through incrementalism you can work your way into getting what you want. Your doctor probably does want to trust you, but you may have to take several small steps to build that trust. A great place to start is to simply ask for your favorite medication, but ask for only a small supply. That often does the trick with a reluctant hesitant doctor.
I once wanted to try Xanax. My doctor in no way would cooperate with my request. So I asked simply for 7 pills to try for a week. No big risk there. And no commitment. I ended up not liking Xanax, but if I had liked it, at least I had gotten the ball rolling. Getting a renewal prescription would not have been nearly as difficult as getting the first. The door had already been partially opened, and I had earned my doctors trust. Besides, no matter what field in life we are talking about, everyone responds to a little bargaining and trust building.
John
Posted by Else on July 26, 2001, at 7:05:14
In reply to Re: RANT. (long reply), posted by Kim on July 26, 2001, at 0:52:25
> Else,
> I know you didn't ask for information, but I just can't help myself. After going through virtually every kind of antidepressant there was, my pdoc put me on Parnate--which was the first thing that made me feel like there was hope. It wasn't quite enough, though, and so we augmented it with dexedrine. I was fine on these drugs for 2 years--delight? Sometimes--but mostly I just felt like I was a real, normal human being. That I was as good as anyone else. That I could do the things I wanted to do and were expected of me without feeling "sick." As for the diet, I pretty much gradually ignored it and never had a problem. Then we got transferred to another state.
Well, I actually did feel delight fot the three weeks I was on it. Delight in the sense that I marvelled at the things around me and became actually interested in what other people had to say instead of just living in my head with my endless worries.> I waltzed into my new pdoc expecting that he would just renew my prescriptions--no big deal, right, since I'd been on them so long? But no, he went ballistic at the dexedrine. Didn't I know that was considered a "dangerous" combination? Well, yes, I was well aware of the risks but I'm a grown up and I've been taking them and haven't had any problems. He immediately set out to cure me of my "dexedrine addiction."
WHAT AN IDIOT. doesn't he know going off Dexedrine after long term use CAUSES severe suicidal depression. Taking you off the Parnate also shows that he is a moron. The depression was obviously related to the Dexedrine withdrawal, not the inneficency of parnate.
And don't forget of course that drug use=drug abuse in some doctor's mind. A psychiatrist took me off Xanax once because I made the mistake of telling her I had to much to drink and blacked out. She didn't even ask if I was a habitual drinker. She just assumed I was an alcoholic. I'm not, I have maybe two or three drinks a week and never more then one in one day. But her mind was made up. Doctors sometimes don't see us as grown-ups. Medicine is the most prestigious profession and some docs adopt a very paternalistic attitude towards their patients. It like mom teling you you can't have cake unless you eat your broccoli first, don't you think?> So he gradually took me off the dexedrine and I gradually went downhill. Finally I was off the dexedrine and feeling like crap; so he decided that the Parnate must not be working since I felt like crap. So he took me off that too.
Dexedrine withdrawal will do that to people after long-term use. He is an incompetent moron for not realising that was the cause of your depression, or maybe he did but he was just doing "What's best for you" like sending you to your room to think about what you did.
> That was the bottom of my life--the only time I've seriously considered suicide. Fortunately my therapist was not my pdoc. When my therapist saw what was happening, he advised me to find a new pdoc--actually said if I didn't do it he would do it for me.
I know what you mean, I used to do cocaine on week-ends during my lowest days and when I crashed afterwards, my only thought was suicide, fast and by any means possible, even really gruesome ones. The whole world was reduced to an insignificant speck of dust . This was strange, I have attempted suicide with pills but it was mostly because I felt I was at a dead end and didn't know where else I could go. But with crashes it was different, there was no logic to it at all. I just felt I had to do it. I had to control these very strong suicidal urges by telling myself they would go away in a few hours.
Now I think I know how melancholic depressives feel. It's not just a few hours, it's weeks and months. I couldn't live like that for very long.
> The new pdoc was also taken aback by the dexedrine, but he put me back on the Parnate immediately. I've been back on the Parnate for over two years now. What would it be like to feel joy or delight? I don't know. My pdoc is experimenting with augmenting my Parnate with different drugs, the latest is imipramine--now there's a combination that gets attention at the pharmacist's window. I had to have an EEG before he prescribed it and have to monitor my blood pressure,and I'm more careful about the diet than I was before, but I have had no problems. The imipramine helps--I can get out of bed and sometimes act almost like a real person.
It was a good idea to change doctors. And you can sit in front of your computer and type an interesting post too.
> At my last visit, my pdoc said that if the imipramine doesn't do it, he's going to put me back on the dexedrine. I think I have had to prove that I'm a "good girl" and will take care of myself.I'm trying to be a good girl myself. I have been lately. I have no desire for self-destruction anymore, I feel basically ok, not sad, but not OK enough. I feel SO tired and pessimistic most of the time. Its been there forever and I want it to go away.
> Maybe if you stick with your pdoc for awhile, he'll get to know you better and trust you enough to give you an MAOI. (Dr. Bob has a copy of the "new" diet on his website.)I discussed this with him earlier this year and the answer was a resounding NO. But then again he said he would NEVER prescribe benzos for me yet the last time I saw him he asked me what dose of Klonopin I though was appropriate and just wrote it down . I think he trusts me more now.
> Geez, sorry this got so long. I mostly just wanted to comisserate and tell you and your pdoc, that yes, there are times when only MAOIs will work, and yes, you can take them without having any side effects.
>Don't worry, I love long posts. Thanks for the advice and best of luck to you too.
> Best of Luck,
> Kim
Posted by Else on July 26, 2001, at 7:14:48
In reply to True North Strong , posted by Willow on July 25, 2001, at 22:42:11
I would flood Health Canada with e-mails if only I knew their address. We need some kind of (small) resolution. I may write to my backbencher MP but I don't think it would help. Maybe the College of Physicians? I really don't know.
>
> The doctors up here are as paranoid as their patients. I agree with you!!
>
> Willow
Posted by Else on July 26, 2001, at 7:22:11
In reply to Re: RANT. This is NOT fair. I hate it !!!!, posted by JohnL on July 26, 2001, at 4:23:09
I agree with you John. I think this is how I will proceed, incrementalism, I mean. It's what I did for Klonopin and it worked. He even prescribes Restoril when I have insomnia.
Thanks
>
> Hi,
> I agree. That's why after ten years of the system I finally took matters into my own hands. I do not recommend self-medication or overseas medicines to most people, but for me that turned out to be the magical way to go. After ten years, I knew more about the drugs than any of my doctors. I was actually more qualified, just based on research and experience, to manage my own affairs than any doctor. I know you like your doctor, but if you really want to get well you may have to do whatever it takes to find another one who will cooperate with you.
>
> You may find that bargaining with your current doc will work. For example, simply ask for a one or two week trial of whatever drug you want. That way the risk is very low, and commitment is very low. You then at least have a foot in the door, and then through incrementalism you can work your way into getting what you want. Your doctor probably does want to trust you, but you may have to take several small steps to build that trust. A great place to start is to simply ask for your favorite medication, but ask for only a small supply. That often does the trick with a reluctant hesitant doctor.
>
> I once wanted to try Xanax. My doctor in no way would cooperate with my request. So I asked simply for 7 pills to try for a week. No big risk there. And no commitment. I ended up not liking Xanax, but if I had liked it, at least I had gotten the ball rolling. Getting a renewal prescription would not have been nearly as difficult as getting the first. The door had already been partially opened, and I had earned my doctors trust. Besides, no matter what field in life we are talking about, everyone responds to a little bargaining and trust building.
> John
Posted by tina on July 26, 2001, at 8:13:51
In reply to RANT. This is NOT fair. I hate it !!!!, posted by Else on July 25, 2001, at 22:14:53
> Ok. I've been wanting to obtain Parnate for over a year now, to no avail. Changing pdoc is very complicated in the True North Strong and Free so I am stuck with the pdoc I have (Whom I like BTW). SSRIs do not work for me, they make me feel worse. I have GAD, SP and atypical depression or atypical dysthymia, it doesn't matter anyway, I just feel bad 95% of the time. Not horrible, but bad and I hate it. Now, there is this possibility that stimulants or MAOIs could help me but I can't get them because my doctor doesn't believe I'm responsible enough too avoid cheese. He's protecting his own ass I know but is this fair to me? Do I have to feel crappy just so he can avoid getting sued (which he wont be).
>
> I'm not suicidal, I behave, I'm in a job-finding program, I take my meds as prescribed (even "addictive" ones like Rivotril), I haven't done drugs in 6 months and don't intend to so why is he torturing me?
>
> I read that Eldepryl produces "remission with DELIGHT", "something SSRIs rarely do". I WANT delight. I FELT delight on Parnate, I want it back. I am so sick of feeling like I'm a bad (sinful)person for wanting to feel delightful. When I ask for potentially addictive or just plain pleasant drugs, it's always with a pathetic lack of confidence and I don't get them.
>
> What is so wrong with feeling good? I've felt crappy all my miserable life. Why do I have to take all these s----y drugs that make me feel awful when I know for a fact MAOIS work better. Is this catholic guilt? I am not catholic but was raised catholic and so was everyone here including doctors. Most of those that have gone to med school in the fifties and sixties had priests as professors. They're scientists but they have this catholic way of thinking too ( blessed are the meek (miserable) for they shall inherit the earth and all that BS (except them of course, who are the strong and already have it)). I read Nietzsche's Genealogy of morals and all and think he is so very right about our moral paradigm being a human invention but why can't this stupid guilt leave my head. Why can't I ask for Valium or Dexedrine or Parnate without feeling like I'm confessing to being a zoophile. Why??? I am so sick of society's attitude, I am sick of my own attitude. I read posts about people just plainly saying "Should I switch to Dexedrine?" like that was the simplest thing in the world. I would feel shameful asking for this however stupid that might sound. And I would be convinced my pdoc would see me as a drug-seeking piece of human gargbage (I once heard a radio shrink here say that drug addicts were no longer human beings but mere garbage. This was a psychiatrist, MD and all).
>
> I hate this. And so what if I was a drug-seeker. Drug-seekers seek drugs because they feel bad. What is wrong with wanting to feel good? I'm not looking for answers here, I just want to complain. The system sucks.
Posted by Willow on July 26, 2001, at 12:34:34
In reply to Re: True North Strong » Willow, posted by Else on July 26, 2001, at 7:14:48
*Maybe the College of Physicians? I really don't know.
My psychologist had suggested this, but I suspect his thinking was that it would give me the sense of resolution. My thinking was why bother. "Here's another letter from a derainged female complaining about treatment from a psychiatrist." Yeah right! I just avoid them. My gp prescribes the medications and the psychologist handles the therapy aspect. My gp seems to be more tuned in to mental health issues than this "mad-chemist" psychiatrist. Or perhaps he's just better with communicating.But maybe if we had some way of approaching our MPs about "mental health" issues we could get some progress. AKC posted on the social board regarding something similar but it was geared to problems with health insurance in the states. When I applied for disability the provincial government recognized me as disabled but not the federal. I would like to know what the difference is?
A fellow Canadian
Willow
Posted by jojo on July 26, 2001, at 18:42:38
In reply to Re: RANT. (long reply), posted by Kim on July 26, 2001, at 0:52:25
For 3 years after moving from the Detroit area to near Tulsa, I flew to Detroit every 6-9
months to have an appointment with my old Psychiatrist. I had been in "therapy" with
her for 16 years, was finally on a workable mixture of Celexa and Adderall, did not
want psychotherapy (12 years of Psychoanalysis, 4-7 days per week was enough), yet
realized that a new Psychiatrist might want to attempt his own treatment. I wrote a
letter to a local Psychiatrist, asking for his help as a Consultant, in finding a new
Psychiatrist who would meet my needs. {Eureka! A new specialty. A Mental Health
Transitional Consultant ; >)} I hadn't yet heard from him when I located a new
Internist, and showed her my letter. She recommended a local Psychiatrist who has
met my needs quite effectively, and even told me two sentences about herself, which
is more than I learned about the other one in 25 years. I have a better relationship
with the new one then I did in all of that time with the former one, who didn't even
bother answering my email when I told her of my decision. This may be a good
strategy for someone who is moving, and requires only prescriptions, someone to talk
to, and someone who will look at references brought to them, and give advice, which
I may or may not follow.
Posted by Angelique on July 26, 2001, at 21:08:57
In reply to RANT. This is NOT fair. I hate it !!!!, posted by Else on July 25, 2001, at 22:14:53
My doc AND the pharmacies make me feel like a drug addict.
I try to call my doc, she doesn't return calls. She won't return my psychologist's calls. Her office won't call in perscriptiosn and during the school year I'm 2 1/2 hours from her office! Last time I needed a refill they told me it wasn't time yet. They gave me the persc. in march with 3 refils (so march, april, june, july, now I'm almost out silly doctors!), and wouldn't give me the refill without makin an appt. The doc's impossible to make appt's with.She sometimes didnt' call things in (when she used to call in perscriptions) and I was on paxil at the time which can have bad feeling withdrawl and there I stood in the drug store with no pills left upset because I knew what was going ot happen. They gave me one pill to get through. It's humiliating when the pharmacists is only maybe 5 years older than me. The drug store near my house staffs high school and older people, so I'll go to get my persc. and it'll be osme young obnocious looking kid ringing up and knowing what I take, or worse someone I went ot high school with.
I had a horrible time quitting paxil, and the withdrawl was awful, I felt like an addict.. My psych has me on 3 meds now, some are to counteract side effects of other meds I take!
I had anxiety problems in the fall so my mom called her office and they called in a blood pressure medicine . Said all they could give me was paxil (which I was mad about because of my horrible withdrawl from quitting it a few months previously) or buspar which never worked that great for me. My mom and Isuggested an beta blocker but instead she called in an alpha blocker.
Raised my prozc without asking and then I had to go back to 10mg because of akathisia and restlessness.
Maybe cut out cheese and then go to your doc and show him that you have. I heard there's another MAOI which isn't as risky about the foods you eat, mayeb it's a newer one. Show him that you've done your research and you know what works for you and what doesn't and know the risks. Tell him you're willing to sign and affidavat saying you understand this and will not hold him responsible if you eat cheese by mistake.
Posted by Else on July 26, 2001, at 22:21:58
In reply to Re: True North Strong , posted by Willow on July 26, 2001, at 12:34:34
> *Maybe the College of Physicians? I really don't know.
> My psychologist had suggested this, but I suspect his thinking was that it would give me the sense of resolution. My thinking was why bother. "Here's another letter from a derainged female complaining about treatment from a psychiatrist." Yeah right! I just avoid them. My gp prescribes the medications and the psychologist handles the therapy aspect. My gp seems to be more tuned in to mental health issues than this "mad-chemist" psychiatrist. Or perhaps he's just better with communicating.
>
> But maybe if we had some way of approaching our MPs about "mental health" issues we could get some progress. AKC posted on the social board regarding something similar but it was geared to problems with health insurance in the states. When I applied for disability the provincial government recognized me as disabled but not the federal. I would like to know what the difference is?
>
> A fellow Canadian
> Willow
Civil servants who've had either good or bad days. But try asking them and then stay on hold for 8 hours like my father once has (for something entirely different, he wanted to inform them that, yes, he did in fact exist and had so for some 47 years). My MP is a loser backbencher BQ MP. No point in even trying really. Now if we found someone who lived in Jean Chretien or Allan Rock's circonscriptions. Paul Martin's district is near where I live, maybe I could find someone there.It's like Canada wants to combine American paranoia about drugs with European freudian incompentence and mind over matter s--- like that. (I don't mean Europe is completely incompetent, obviously, it produces great pharmaceutical products. It's just their psychiatry books that are complete BS.)
Posted by Else on July 27, 2001, at 7:02:30
In reply to Re: RANT. This is NOT fair. I hate it !!!!, posted by Angelique on July 26, 2001, at 21:08:57
> My doc AND the pharmacies make me feel like a drug addict.
> I try to call my doc, she doesn't return calls. She won't return my psychologist's calls. Her office won't call in perscriptiosn and during the school year I'm 2 1/2 hours from her office! Last time I needed a refill they told me it wasn't time yet. They gave me the persc. in march with 3 refils (so march, april, june, july, now I'm almost out silly doctors!), and wouldn't give me the refill without makin an appt. The doc's impossible to make appt's with.
>
> She sometimes didnt' call things in (when she used to call in perscriptions) and I was on paxil at the time which can have bad feeling withdrawl and there I stood in the drug store with no pills left upset because I knew what was going ot happen. They gave me one pill to get through. It's humiliating when the pharmacists is only maybe 5 years older than me. The drug store near my house staffs high school and older people, so I'll go to get my persc. and it'll be osme young obnocious looking kid ringing up and knowing what I take, or worse someone I went ot high school with.I know what you mean. They always make a huge fuss over benzos at my drugstore and then I get these 20-year old interns telling me these my make me sleepy and that I can't take alcohol with them like I didn't know that already. I've been going to the same drugstore forever, the pharmacists know me, but these interns are a pain in the ass. They should have them work in the lab and leave the customer service to a technician or just a cashier.
> I had a horrible time quitting paxil, and the withdrawl was awful, I felt like an addict.. My psych has me on 3 meds now, some are to counteract side effects of other meds I take!
I never had problems quitting SSRIs (I took Prozac and Zoloft). Effexor was quite something though, with migraines that lasted for days.
I know some doctors do a gradual taper for SSRIs by switching patients from short-acting ones like Paxil to Prozac which is very long acting. I had no withdrawal symptoms whatsoever from this drug, I think it's better then Paxil or Zoloft and I don't know why doctors don't seem to prescribe it anymore. Maybe it has gotten a bad reputation from all the hysterical people who tried to make a buck off it, like anti-psychiatry quacks and law-suit-happy people. Much like what happenned to Valium.
BTW, you didn't say what you are taking now.> I had anxiety problems in the fall so my mom called her office and they called in a blood pressure medicine . Said all they could give me was paxil (which I was mad about because of my horrible withdrawl from quitting it a few months previously) or buspar which never worked that great for me. My mom and Isuggested an beta blocker but instead she called in an alpha blocker.
Is she aware that benzodiazepines also work for anxiety or is she anti-benzo ayatollah?
> Raised my prozc without asking and then I had to go back to 10mg because of akathisia and restlessness.I didn't get these problem on Prozac 20mg but I was taking Xanax 0.25mg three times a day at the time. Maybe Xanax would help. But if your doctor says there's nothing but Paxil or Buspar she can give you for anxiety I doubt she'll be open to prescribing a tranquilizer.
> Maybe cut out cheese and then go to your doc and show him that you have. I heard there's another MAOI which isn't as risky about the foods you eat, mayeb it's a newer one. Show him that you've done your research and you know what works for you and what doesn't and know the risks. Tell him you're willing to sign and affidavat saying you understand this and will not hold him responsible if you eat cheese by mistake.Look, cutting out the cheese is not really a problem. Although it is very good, it is not really an addictive substance. Eating cheese by mistake once or twice is often harmless (I'm young and don't have hypertension). There are also drug like Adalat which can lower blood pressure quickly if a problem occurs. I did offer to sign a release but he says it doesn't work that way. He's just afraid I'll use these to harm myself. And I must admit I *have* been non-compliant in the past, but mostly about minor things.
I don't know where you live but if you can, change doctors. She doesn't seem very competent and she is quite disrespectful.
Posted by paxvox on July 27, 2001, at 11:58:52
In reply to RANT. This is NOT fair. I hate it !!!!, posted by Else on July 25, 2001, at 22:14:53
Hmmmmm. Sound too human to me. You see, the docs prescribe what they read about or learn about through trial and error. However, just like DNA, no two people have the exact same brain chemistry, and therefore there IS NO canned med treatment for a vanilla world (because some of us are tutty-fruity :) That you have been a drug user, and have DSB (drug seeking behavior) triggers a rote response from any doc. While I agree that many use drugs to try to self-medicate, many others do so for recreation, and thus the stigma. There is no simple answer. The more we learn about brain chemistry, the sooner we will have better treatment and less stereotyping. Let us know how it goes!
Posted by Else on July 27, 2001, at 19:17:03
In reply to Re: RANT. This is NOT fair. I hate it !!!!, posted by paxvox on July 27, 2001, at 11:58:52
I understand that all too well and get quite depressed about it at times. But what is drug-seeking anyway? Is it asking for a drug you believe will work for you after you've done your research? Is it not being completely ignorant when you enter you doctor's office? I guess if I was faking symptoms I would be drug-seeking, but I never have. I'm just a hysterical gurl you see and we're like that, we exagerate everything while men stoically tolerate pain and suffering.
I can't help how I express myself. I tend to be quite emphatic. Does that make me a liar?I will let you know how it goes even though I disagree that discriminating between self-medication and recreational drug use matters at all. Maybe that's not what you meant to say. I don't know. Anyway, I'm quite aware that my opinions on drug legalization are not widely held and I don't want to begin discussing them here. It's not the purpose of this forum anyways. Thanks!
> Hmmmmm. Sound too human to me. You see, the docs prescribe what they read about or learn about through trial and error. However, just like DNA, no two people have the exact same brain chemistry, and therefore there IS NO canned med treatment for a vanilla world (because some of us are tutty-fruity :) That you have been a drug user, and have DSB (drug seeking behavior) triggers a rote response from any doc. While I agree that many use drugs to try to self-medicate, many others do so for recreation, and thus the stigma. There is no simple answer. The more we learn about brain chemistry, the sooner we will have better treatment and less stereotyping. Let us know how it goes!
Posted by paxvox on July 28, 2001, at 20:26:55
In reply to Re: RANT. This is NOT fair. I hate it !!!! » paxvox, posted by Else on July 27, 2001, at 19:17:03
Not trying to be judgmental, God knows I did my share of self-medication. My point was that docs are "trained" to see certain things as symptoms, be it a disease or a personality trait. However, I, like yourself, know quite a bit about any med I will take, or expect any doc will offer me for a specific condition. Having a PDR on hand, and a working knowledge of biochemistry doesn't hurt. Knowledge without discernment, however, can be "dangerous". And this is where the so-called professionals believe they have an edge on "us".I would be happy to play an IQ test with any of them.Use your knowledge discriminantly. Show you are making educated and informed consent to YOUR treatment!
This is the end of the thread.
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