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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by susan C on July 12, 2001, at 16:57:35
I would like to know if others share my experience. I have found no dr to confirm it, other than it is listed as a very small% in the side effects list. Whenever I take an antihistamine, whether it is OTC or Allegra (or Clariton), the new ones, with in 48 hours I am suicidal. When I stop, it is out of my system in about the same length of time and I could feel my mood 'lift'. When the allergy doc prescribed allegra, I said 'I can't take antihistamines they make me depressed' he said, 'oh, no, this is a NEW one, it does not pass the blood brain barrier.' A friend of mine also had a similar experience, couldn't beleive it and tried a second time...he was braver than me. Anyone else out there?
Posted by Elizabeth on July 12, 2001, at 20:11:03
In reply to Antihistamines and suicidal ideation, posted by susan C on July 12, 2001, at 16:57:35
> I would like to know if others share my experience. I have found no dr to confirm it, other than it is listed as a very small% in the side effects list. Whenever I take an antihistamine, whether it is OTC or Allegra (or Clariton), the new ones, with in 48 hours I am suicidal.
A number of people experience dysphoria on "drowsy" antihistamines, but it's unlikely that Allegra, Claritin, Zyrtec, Seldane, etc. would cause it, because they do not cross the blood-brain barrier very well (that's why they're nondrowsy).
Have other drugs caused this side effect too?
-elizabeth
When I stop, it is out of my system in about the same length of time and I could feel my mood 'lift'. When the allergy doc prescribed allegra, I said 'I can't take antihistamines they make me depressed' he said, 'oh, no, this is a NEW one, it does not pass the blood brain barrier.' A friend of mine also had a similar experience, couldn't beleive it and tried a second time...he was braver than me. Anyone else out there?
Posted by susan C on July 12, 2001, at 20:42:59
In reply to Re: Antihistamines and suicidal ideation » susan C, posted by Elizabeth on July 12, 2001, at 20:11:03
> > I would like to know if others share my experience. I have found no dr to confirm it, other than it is listed as a very small% in the side effects list. Whenever I take an antihistamine, whether it is OTC or Allegra (or Clariton), the new ones, with in 48 hours I am suicidal.
>
> A number of people experience dysphoria on "drowsy" antihistamines, but it's unlikely that Allegra, Claritin, Zyrtec, Seldane, etc. would cause it, because they do not cross the blood-brain barrier very well (that's why they're nondrowsy).
>
> Have other drugs caused this side effect too?
>
> -elizabethHi, I hope writing this here makes sense. What you said, is what the doc said. Maybe I just had an unusual depressive experience, but it was SO specific and clear. No, I have not found that any other medication did that to me. When the suicidal thoughts came on so suddenly, I thought, what have I changed? The only thing I had changed was the addition of Allegra. I stopped it and within 48 hours I could literally feel the mood lift. I don't recall being drowsy. I just know I can't take meds that have that side effect. It was so odd.
I have specific strong suicidal ideas four times I can remember right now. The first time was long enough ago I don't remember it being connected to a drug. The second was on Dimeatap, I was trying to dry up my nose, and I was very depressed anyway, that is when I discovered the connection. the third was Allegra, As far as I can remember,at that time, I was not on any other drug other than asthma inhalers and accolate. The last time was when I was going off of Serzone and on med trials. I was very depressed. Each time I dropped the dose (the pdoc was very concerned that I go off of it slowly...)I got even more depressed. Then it would kind of even out. The last bit I had suicidal thoughts. In there somewhere are high bits, by the time I got to Depakote, I was cycling every hour during the day.
I am getting to the point now where it is hard for me to remember the hard parts, I am starting to go up....The depakote has helped even things out some. If the dx of Bipolar II is correct it is supported by family history. Does this give you any ideas? Thanks,
Sue
>
> When I stop, it is out of my system in about the same length of time and I could feel my mood 'lift'. When the allergy doc prescribed allegra, I said 'I can't take antihistamines they make me depressed' he said, 'oh, no, this is a NEW one, it does not pass the blood brain barrier.' A friend of mine also had a similar experience, couldn't beleive it and tried a second time...he was braver than me. Anyone else out there?
Posted by Janelle on July 12, 2001, at 20:59:47
In reply to Re: Antihistamines and suicidal ideation, posted by susan C on July 12, 2001, at 20:42:59
Sorry, can't add anything about your experience with antihistamines, except to say that what Elizabeth wrote about those which cross the blood brain barrier and those which don't quite as well sure makes sense.
You mentioned that you're on Depakote, which my pdoc recommended for me, but I have been to scared to try it because I've read that HAIR LOSS can be a side effect. Just curious if you've had noticeable hair loss while on Depakote??
Posted by susan C on July 12, 2001, at 21:45:24
In reply to SUSAN C - a DEPAKOTE question 4 U:, posted by Janelle on July 12, 2001, at 20:59:47
I was very scared too. dr-bob tips are great for info on depakote hair loss. I think it was there that the medical definition of 'insert $25' word, is 100 strands! I did notice more loss, like when I ran my hands through my hair, or in the shower, but nothing! like that! I just noticed this week that is getting to be less and less.
I started in November (total 9 months)and now I am on 1000mg since Feb. (6 months) I had been up to 1500, but didn't notice a difference, so with pdoc discussion, dropped it back. my blood level is about 50, you can go way up, it just depends on how well you respond.
I have been treatment resistant and probably misdiagnosed for a LONG time. May or may not be bipolar II, maybe seizure related, especially since I am responding, kind of, to depakote. I noticed evening out in 4 weeks, I kept a graph journal of my moods and pasted them together and could see I wasn't going up or down as much, but it was hard to see just one month at a time...
I can't remember when I noticed a few more hairs coming out, but before I started on it I was very concerned. It is recommended you take a multi with selium and zinc in it...I have read varying amounts recommended...Which I do and have heard from others that it helps.
About antihistimines:
I have a friend who participated, through our same doc, in a test, where, as I understand it, the sample tested for passing the blood brain barrier and it did. And it shouldn't. He is the friend who tried clariton twice and had the same response I did. I guess, it is just one of those things that hasn't been quantified yet.Have you noticed there are a lot of really smart people here?
> Sorry, can't add anything about your experience with antihistamines, except to say that what Elizabeth wrote about those which cross the blood brain barrier and those which don't quite as well sure makes sense.
>
> You mentioned that you're on Depakote, which my pdoc recommended for me, but I have been to scared to try it because I've read that HAIR LOSS can be a side effect. Just curious if you've had noticeable hair loss while on Depakote??
Posted by Willow on July 12, 2001, at 23:09:51
In reply to Re: Antihistamines and suicidal ideation » susan C, posted by Elizabeth on July 12, 2001, at 20:11:03
> A number of people experience dysphoria on "drowsy" antihistamines, but it's unlikely that Allegra, Claritin, Zyrtec, Seldane, etc. would cause it, because they do not cross the blood-brain barrier very well (that's why they're nondrowsy).Benadryl and such give me a buzz probably similar to what someone would feel on beans. I've actually used it for when I need to get something done and if I'm having a hard time staying awake. (The only drawback is that I'm too agitated to be social.)
I hadn't connected any of my problems to the non-drowsy antihistamines, but did come across something by chance that listed the less common side-effects and they matched a lot of the problems I have. I don't take them anymore except for the liquid child-dose when really neccessary, instead I use a steroid nasal spray.
Regarding the brain barrier, perhaps ours is cracked! (Bad joke.) I was taking another drug which was giving me severe headaches like I've never experienced before, well except on one AD after a couple weeks. The pharmascist said it couldn't be the drug because it doesn't cross the brain barrier, but when I stopped it for other reasons the headaches left.
If it helps any I believe you.
Drippy Willow
Posted by Janelle on July 12, 2001, at 23:51:08
In reply to Re: SUSAN C - a DEPAKOTE question 4 U:, posted by susan C on July 12, 2001, at 21:45:24
Thanks for the response. I'm still too scared about hair loss, so I hope my pdoc can prescribe a different mood stabilizer. I now know that this is what I need, it's a question of which one I will feel most "comfortable" with in terms of side effects!
Posted by MB on July 13, 2001, at 3:11:31
In reply to Antihistamines and suicidal ideation, posted by susan C on July 12, 2001, at 16:57:35
> I would like to know if others share my experience. I have found no dr to confirm it, other than it is listed as a very small% in the side effects list. Whenever I take an antihistamine, whether it is OTC or Allegra (or Clariton), the new ones, with in 48 hours I am suicidal. When I stop, it is out of my system in about the same length of time and I could feel my mood 'lift'. When the allergy doc prescribed allegra, I said 'I can't take antihistamines they make me depressed' he said, 'oh, no, this is a NEW one, it does not pass the blood brain barrier.' A friend of mine also had a similar experience, couldn't beleive it and tried a second time...he was braver than me. Anyone else out there?
My initial reaction to antihistamines is relief from anxiety...maybe about three hours after I take them (which is weird because it seems they "hit" other people faster). Then I become narcoleptic and succumb to an ineluctable sleep that lasts no less than a day or two...then I am plagued with leaden fatigue for three or four more days, during which my body feels as if it weighs 400 lbs. All I want to do at this point is sleep, yet I can't because I am so restless...so I lie there wiggling my foot until I can move again. The whole ordeal is extremely depressing. The whole time I am in the fatigue stage, I have a weird, nostalgic melencholia that is reminiscent of the depression induced by opoid withdrawal. Zyrtec (one of the new "non drowsey" types) was the worst. Funny: the smaller the dose of Zyrtec that I took, the worse my reaction (less was more...how deep...)
Posted by susan C on July 13, 2001, at 10:11:11
In reply to Thanks, SUSAN C!, posted by Janelle on July 12, 2001, at 23:51:08
You are welcome. I know my pdoc 'stikes the fear of god' in me when we decide on whaever is next. Hairloss, swollen glands, death, chucks of skin falling out....he is very graphic and of the meds I have tried, he goes slow, and I haven't had anything close to the catastrophic sideeffects. I understand it is all full disclosure and a big part for me is having confidence in my pdocs thinking process, talking with me about it and how we come to the decision, together, to try it.
Thanks for the response. I'm still too scared about hair loss, so I hope my pdoc can prescribe a different mood stabilizer. I now know that this is what I need, it's a question of which one I will feel most "comfortable" with in terms of side effects!
Posted by susan C on July 13, 2001, at 17:17:12
In reply to Re: Antihistamines and suicidal ideation » susan C, posted by Elizabeth on July 12, 2001, at 20:11:03
Hi, this board is go great, it really has me thinking. Your question about other meds. When I explained to pdoc about reaction to dimeatap, he said Sudaphed or rx'd phenylrop/guiaifen. The p/g has been good because it lasts for 12 hours. effects were being a little jazzed and dried out. I need to take it because I tend to get sinus infections and if I get stuffy and dry it out right away, I have been able to avoid infection. I have taken it a couple times a year with every psych med I have taken and found no adverse reaction. >
>
> Have other drugs caused this side effect too?
>
> -elizabeth
>
Posted by Elizabeth on July 15, 2001, at 18:27:15
In reply to Re: Antihistamines and suicidal ideation, posted by susan C on July 12, 2001, at 20:42:59
> Hi, I hope writing this here makes sense.
Sure.
> What you said, is what the doc said. Maybe I just had an unusual depressive experience, but it was SO specific and clear.
Well, "non-drowsy" antihistamines do occasionally cause...drowsiness! (So they're getting into the CNS.) I never heard of someone getting depressed on one before, though. I'll remember that!
> I am getting to the point now where it is hard for me to remember the hard parts, I am starting to go up....The depakote has helped even things out some. If the dx of Bipolar II is correct it is supported by family history. Does this give you any ideas? Thanks,
It sounds like rapid-cycling bipolar II. Depakote is one of the better treatments for that type of bipolar disorder (lithium doesn't tend to work as well).
-elizabeth
This is the end of the thread.
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