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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sl on June 17, 2001, at 18:33:39
My mother's husband is having some strange things going on that we don't understand.
He's paranoid and angry, for no apparent reason. He accuses her of taking his things (and either moving them around or taking them away).
Could this be a long-term affect of either ADD or the Adderall he's on for it?? At age 61, he's been on adderall for at least a few years (probably much longer).
Any input is welcome...thanks!
sl
Posted by sl on June 18, 2001, at 9:10:27
In reply to Adderal and/or ADD long-term effects??, posted by sl on June 17, 2001, at 18:33:39
My mother's husband is having some strange things going on that we don't understand.
He's paranoid and angry, for no apparent reason. He accuses her of taking his things (and either moving them around or taking them away).
Could this be a long-term affect of either ADD or the Adderall he's on for it?? At age 61, he's been on adderall for at least a few years (probably much longer).
Any input is welcome...thanks!
sl
Posted by Andy123 on June 18, 2001, at 11:22:34
In reply to Adderal and/or ADD long-term effects??, posted by sl on June 18, 2001, at 9:10:27
> He's paranoid and angry, for no apparent reason. He accuses her of taking his things (and either moving them around or taking them away).
> Could this be a long-term affect of either ADD or the Adderall he's on for it?? At age 61, he's been on adderall for at least a few years (probably much longer).I don't think that chronic use of amphetamines will cause a "post use" paranoia. Paranoia associated with amphetamine use occurs (as far as I know) while the person is under the effect of the drug. Personally, any negative effects from stimulants (they have been few and far between) always remit when the medicine runs out of my system. In fact, when the medicine is out of my system I feel overly relaxed and often act like a hyperactive kid (lots of joking and playing, not paranoid) :)
Really my question regarding your stepdad may cause some controversy: why is a man this age on a stimulant? I have attention problems that are entirely associated with depression (not real ADHD) and I reserve stimulant use for when I have to get some intellectually demanding work done. I don't take the medicine to take care of normal day-to-day things. I'm working in a computational chemistry lab. My work is largely intellectual so I feel like this is a legitimate reason to be taking stimulants. I don't take them to help me organize my laundry!
Posted by Lorraine on June 18, 2001, at 14:32:11
In reply to Re: Adderal and/or ADD long-term effects??, posted by Andy123 on June 18, 2001, at 11:22:34
ADD lasts through out life. The notion that we outgrow it is a myth, at least according to Amen's recent book on ADD. Anyway, I'm middle aged and I am on stimulants and mood stabilizers to manage my depression. SSRI's etc. didn't work.
Posted by Noa on June 18, 2001, at 14:54:36
In reply to Re: Adderal and/or ADD long-term effects?? » Andy123, posted by Lorraine on June 18, 2001, at 14:32:11
One thought: I have heard that too much stimulant can cause psychotic symptoms. Is it possible that at age 61, he may need a lower dose of the Adderall than he used to? It still seems remote that it is the Adderall causing this, but just thought I'd share that thought.
Posted by sl on June 18, 2001, at 17:51:10
In reply to Re: Adderal and/or ADD long-term effects??, posted by Noa on June 18, 2001, at 14:54:36
Ooooh...could it be that THIS is what happens when he takes his doses too close togehter?? That would certainly explain why he's not like this ALL the time instead of once in a while!
sl
> One thought: I have heard that too much stimulant can cause psychotic symptoms. Is it possible that at age 61, he may need a lower dose of the Adderall than he used to? It still seems remote that it is the Adderall causing this, but just thought I'd share that thought.
Posted by Andy123 on June 18, 2001, at 19:45:49
In reply to Re: Adderal and/or ADD long-term effects??, posted by sl on June 18, 2001, at 17:51:10
> Ooooh...could it be that THIS is what happens when he takes his doses too close togehter?? That would certainly explain why he's not like this ALL the time instead of once in a while!
>My previous note presupposed that you would be aware that amphetamines certainly can cause paranoia. Old literature suggests that amphetamine overdosing is clinically indistinguishable from paranoid schizophrenia.
Posted by Andy123 on June 18, 2001, at 19:52:13
In reply to Re: Adderal and/or ADD long-term effects?? » Andy123, posted by Lorraine on June 18, 2001, at 14:32:11
> ADD lasts through out life. The notion that we outgrow it is a myth, at least according to Amen's recent book on ADD. Anyway, I'm middle aged and I am on stimulants and mood stabilizers to manage my depression. SSRI's etc. didn't work.
You really should take those pop psychology books (even those written by an MD) with a grain of salt. The fact is that (even low dose) amphetamines cause oxidative damage that can be discerned histologically. Higher dosages cause damage that is grossly visible (visible to the unaided eye.)
I think the damage is dose dependent. It clearly isn't majorly incapacitating in low doses as millions of folks who take these low dose pills are fine. I continue to risk minor brain insults myself by continuing intermitent stimulant use.
I'll post a reasonable number of references on oxdidative damage from stimulants with a couple of weeks.
Posted by sl on June 18, 2001, at 20:09:01
In reply to Re: Adderal and/or ADD long-term effects??, posted by Andy123 on June 18, 2001, at 19:45:49
Um, I think I knew that (from high-school anti-drug propaganda!), but not that Adderall was an amphetamine. I'll find out...
ohdear. I just thought of something. He works shifts at work of 12 hours or more. If he's taking extra to keep himself awake....that'd cause the OD symptoms!! I always wondered how he did it. Now...I'm pretty sure I know.sl
> My previous note presupposed that you would be aware that amphetamines certainly can cause paranoia. Old literature suggests that amphetamine overdosing is clinically indistinguishable from paranoid schizophrenia.
Posted by Lorraine on June 18, 2001, at 23:19:41
In reply to Re: Adderal and/or ADD long-term effects?? » Lorraine, posted by Andy123 on June 18, 2001, at 19:52:13
> I'll post a reasonable number of references on oxdidative damage from stimulants with a couple of weeks.
Great! I'd love to read them.
Posted by Sulpicia on June 18, 2001, at 23:58:11
In reply to Adderal and/or ADD long-term effects??, posted by sl on June 17, 2001, at 18:33:39
> My mother's husband is having some strange things going on that we don't understand.
>
> He's paranoid and angry, for no apparent reason. He accuses her of taking his things (and either moving them around or taking them away).
>
> Could this be a long-term affect of either ADD or the Adderall he's on for it?? At age 61, he's been on adderall for at least a few years (probably much longer).
>
> Any input is welcome...thanks!
> sl
Um, I might get dad to a pdoc or a neurologist.
ADD does not progress. Any other psychiatric history?
Amphetamine psychosis doesn't come on gradually as a rule -- I might entertain some suspicions of dementia -- blockage of carotids or vessels in the brain -- any health problems?
Tolerance or abuse of properly prescribed ADD meds seems to be pretty rare but might be a problem here, especially if he doesn't know a lot about adderall.
Elderly metabolism? Liver trouble?
And you'll hate me for asking but have you seen this behavior yourself?
My MIL reported some weird stuff to me about her dh and it turns out she was the person
who needed attention. And firsthand info will be of great use for the docs in helping him.
S.
Is
Posted by stjames on June 19, 2001, at 12:51:45
In reply to Re: Adderal and/or ADD long-term effects?? » Lorraine, posted by Andy123 on June 18, 2001, at 19:52:13
> I'll post a reasonable number of references on oxdidative damage from stimulants with a couple of weeks.
James here....Try spelling oxdidative(sic) correctly when you search for this info.
James
Posted by Andy123 on June 19, 2001, at 15:20:55
In reply to Re: Adderal and/or ADD long-term effects??, posted by stjames on June 19, 2001, at 12:51:45
> Try spelling oxdidative(sic) correctly when you search for this info.
> JamesOkay James. (Wow)
Posted by blackjack on June 21, 2001, at 12:05:42
In reply to Re: Adderal and/or ADD long-term effects?? » Lorraine, posted by Andy123 on June 18, 2001, at 19:52:13
Most of the research with which I am familiar, relating to amphetamine neurotoxicity, and specifically permanant nerve terminal damage, is based on animal models. These findings cannot be assumed to directly correlate with humans. Even so, studies seem to indicate that significant neurotoxicity only occurs when doses large enough to significantly increase body temperature are administered. This isn't a problem at the dosages used to treat ADD.
None of this proves that amphetamines aren't neurotoxic in humans, but there is no clear answer to the question. We will probably learn a lot more in the next few years as new imaging techniques give us a better look at the human brain in action.
Posted by Lorraine on June 22, 2001, at 9:45:11
In reply to Re: Adderal and/or ADD long-term effects??, posted by blackjack on June 21, 2001, at 12:05:42
> None of this proves that amphetamines aren't neurotoxic in humans, but there is no clear answer to the question. We will probably learn a lot more in the next few years as new imaging techniques give us a better look at the human brain in action.
The problem is we know so little now. What are the long term effects of the use of any of the drugs we are using now? We know that untreated depression causes the brain to change--reduced hypocampus; lessions etc. So not treating depression is not an option. A recent article in discovery (the article is pulp implying that cosmetic use of anti-depressants is the norm and people should just exercise) notes that Prozac causes changes in the brain. Take a look at the brain images on thebrain.com for a look at the channges in brain activity caused by various mental illness and the restoration to normal brain activity with treatment. Any drug we take poses the risk of changing the brain. Not taking any drugs poses the risk of changing the brain. It's a hard luck life.
Posted by Sulpicia on June 22, 2001, at 17:11:35
In reply to Re: Adderal and/or ADD long-term effects??, posted by Lorraine on June 22, 2001, at 9:45:11
> >Excellent point.
And just subjectively, amphetamines have been around long enough
for the age cohort who use/abuse them to be hitting old age.
There hasn't been some huge fracas about epidemiological links
between amphetamine usage and any neuro or psychiatric disorder --
just about everything else tho, but that's another story. :)Just thinking out loud subjectively.
And James, if you read this, could you kindly refrain from being
the spelling police on any threads about ADD/HD?
As a rule we can't spell and after reading your post I'm feeling
*very* abashed and sheepish about posting...
S.
Posted by sl on June 23, 2001, at 7:06:13
In reply to Re: Adderal and/or ADD long-term effects?? » Lorraine, posted by Sulpicia on June 22, 2001, at 17:11:35
Um. The person was talking about SEARCHING under the word he corrected. If you try to search under a mis-spelling you won't find anything, or the only places you'll find will be sites that ALSO mis-spelled it. I believe THAT was his concern.
Just being practical here...
sl
> Just thinking out loud subjectively.
> And James, if you read this, could you kindly refrain from being
> the spelling police on any threads about ADD/HD?
> As a rule we can't spell and after reading your post I'm feeling
> *very* abashed and sheepish about posting...
> S.
This is the end of the thread.
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