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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by PuraVida on June 15, 2001, at 14:03:40
Just wondering if anyone is being prescribed Topomax through Kaiser, if anyone has a general opinion about how conservative or progressive Kaiser docs can be, and if anyone has a view on how difficult Topomax is to get prescribed.
I have had a few bad experiences with my doc: the first was when he reduced my Serzone from 600 to 400 in a period of 2 weeks. This was because I was complaining of sleeping too much. I crashed big time, had to drop out of school, and life, pretty much, and 4 months later I'm finally getting back together.
The second was when I approached him @ Topomax. I have gained about 20 lbs over the past few years, and it has been contributing to my depression - I also have a big problem with binge eating, and a fair amount of mood instability. Anyhow, I printed out some stuff from the net, and asked him about it. His reaction was "thats a non-convulsant". I tried to show him the articles I brought, but he wouldn't listen to me or even look at them.
He gave me Neurontin instead, but I haven't taken it yet because I'm afraid of more weight gain. He also added 10 mgs of Prozac, and that has helped a bit with eating urges and I am more stable. Stil, I would love to try Topomax if it could help me stabilize my moods and help me to fit into my clothes again.
Is this just the way Kaiser is, or is it my doc, or is Topomax really that hard to get?
Thanks,
Liz
Posted by AKC on June 15, 2001, at 14:58:03
In reply to Kaiser / Topomax, posted by PuraVida on June 15, 2001, at 14:03:40
I don't know anything about Kaiser docs, but I don't think there is any difficulty in getting topamax. It is pricy, but some of the other meds are worse. I'm lucky in that I see my doctor through her private office and pay for her out of my own pocket (though thankfully my insurance picks up my meds). She is willing to try cutting edge stuff - when I am ready. I hope you can find a doctor who is willing to do so also (and that what you are experiencing is a problem just with this one doctor and not with Kaiser doctors in general).
Posted by SalArmy4me on June 15, 2001, at 23:34:53
In reply to Kaiser / Topomax, posted by PuraVida on June 15, 2001, at 14:03:40
Topamax _is_ formulary at Kaiser.
Posted by PuraVida on June 16, 2001, at 1:09:42
In reply to Re: Kaiser / Topomax » PuraVida, posted by SalArmy4me on June 15, 2001, at 23:34:53
Sorry, does that mean it is readily available? If so, do you know if Kaiser has OK'd it to be prescribed as a mood stabilzer?
> Topamax _is_ formulary at Kaiser.
Posted by SalArmy4me on June 16, 2001, at 1:33:57
In reply to Re: Kaiser / Topomax » SalArmy4me, posted by PuraVida on June 16, 2001, at 1:09:42
That just means that doctors can prescribe it and its cost is covered by insurance when it is given to someone. So instead of $225, if you are prescribed something formulary it only costs a copay of $5.
> Sorry, does that mean it is readily available? If so, do you know if Kaiser has OK'd it to be prescribed as a mood stabilzer?
>
> > Topamax _is_ formulary at Kaiser.
Posted by kazoo on June 16, 2001, at 1:37:57
In reply to Kaiser / Topomax, posted by PuraVida on June 15, 2001, at 14:03:40
> anyone has a general opinion about how conservative or progressive Kaiser docs can be, and if anyone has a view on how difficult Topomax is to get prescribed.
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Kaiser Permanente is *not* managed health care, it is managed dollars. What you have with this HMO, as well as most other HMOs, is a bunch of rich businessmen dictating orders to doctors; i.e., managing money is more important than the health of the patient.
"Does the patient *really* need that blood work done? Do you think you can give the patient a cheaper, more cost effective drug? Just use only one stain when doing an MRI."
Kaiser Permanente killed my father in 1994 when they misdiagnosed him with epilepsy when all along he had brain tumors (are you reading this Dr. Donald Grayson of West Hartford, Connecticut?). He was 81 at the time of his first seizure, hence a candidate for Kaiser's plan of geriatric euthanasia. He suffered horribly for two whole years before death became a blessing. My Pa passed away in his sleep at a hospice in 1996. This is the way Kaiser does things.
In Indiana several years back, doctors got together and formed a UNION to protect themselves from Kaiser's inadequate and unqualified medical judgments based on a rich businessman's bank account. This was the first time in medical history that doctors were forced to form a UNION in order to make the public aware that they were not responsible for the non-treatment, or mis-treatment of their patients. They pointed the finger at Kaiser's Administration.
If you have an HMO, especially KAISER, then dump them fast because they'll find ways to make sure you die quickly.
Kaiser is such a success story that they were kicked out of Connecticut, a very rich state, because of the mounting litigation against them. This says something when the wealtiest don't want that medical waste hanging around in the neighborhood.
Tippecanoe and Tyler, too ... down with the Kaiser (Permanente).
kazoo
Posted by SalArmy4me on June 16, 2001, at 8:01:00
In reply to Re: Kaiser Permanente = planned euthanasia » PuraVida, posted by kazoo on June 16, 2001, at 1:37:57
You stated a lot of things that you did not and cannot prove. That's a serious accusation: planned euthanasia.
Posted by PuraVida on June 16, 2001, at 11:50:14
In reply to Re: Kaiser Permanente = planned euthanasia » kazoo, posted by SalArmy4me on June 16, 2001, at 8:01:00
Thanks Sal, for the explanation - what I thought...
Kazoo, I agree to an extent - I am very afraid of getting a life threatening disease while under their care. Having said that, they have been extremely thorough with my care, ordering this test and that at the drop of a hat. One reason, I think, is because I am informed and ask, for example, a blood test checking for thyroid, etc. I think maybe they have learned a lesson from tragedies like you've described, which probably happen everywhere.
I'm sorry to hear about your dad. My mother also came to what I consider an untimely end by doctors who were not on top of her cancer (BUT - she wasn't either)
I guess the lesson is for me was and is that we have a responsibility for our health care too - the patient has to be reading, gathering info, taking action, knowing and asking for what they want. What do you think?
> You stated a lot of things that you did not and cannot prove. That's a serious accusation: planned euthanasia.
Posted by kazoo on June 17, 2001, at 1:54:56
In reply to Re: Kaiser Permanente = planned euthanasia » kazoo, posted by SalArmy4me on June 16, 2001, at 8:01:00
> You stated a lot of things that you did not and cannot prove. That's a serious accusation: planned euthanasia.
^^^^^^^^^^^
Kaiser (HMO) malpractice:http://www.kaiser-medical-malpractice-lawyer.com/
http://www.ccemhc.org/12berisa.html
http://www.businessweek.com/1997/16/b352360.htm
http://www.fos-adr.com/engcadca.html
http://www.harp.org/eng/eng2.txt
http://www.dol.gov/dol/pwba/public/pubs/ab/ascii007.txt
http://www.makingakilling.org/notes.html
http://www.hsba.org/members/sc/13671.HTM
http://www.tlpj.org/tlpjf/pressreleases/kaiser_split.htm
http://www.tksp.com/News/articles02.html
http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/healthcare/
http://www.forensic-psych.com/articles/catManHealthCare.html
http://www.forensic-psych.com/articles/artRico.html
http://www.forensic-psych.com/articles/artSocialRisk.html
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/3037.html
http://www.forensic-psych.com/articles/artGatekeeper.html
http://www.forensic-psych.com/articles/artCaptive.html
http://www.forensic-psych.com/articles/artMedMal.html
http://www.forensic-psych.com/articles/artScapegoat.html
http://www.forensic-psych.com/articles/artShoah.html
http://www.forensic-psych.com/articles/artAskexp02.html
http://www.forensic-psych.com/articles/artManagingCareReview.html
http://www.forensic-psych.com/articles/artShalala.html
http://www.forensic-psych.com/articles/artHospitalQuality.html^^^^^^^^ ... and the list goes on and on and on ... ad infinitum
Kaiser leaves Connecticut:
http://kpcos.kp.org/locations/kpne/PressReleases/Doctors forming a union:
http://www.freep.com/business/labor12_20000212.htm
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/nation-world/html98/altdoct_19990302.html
http://dr-boehm.com/Union.htm
http://www.lvrj.com/lvrj_home/1999/Jul-04-Sun-1999/opinion/11468949.html
http://tampabay.bcentral.com/tampabay/stories/1998/11/23/story5.html^^^^^^^^^^ ... and the list goes on and on and on ...
As far a proving Kaiser killing my father, I'll have to scan 15 boxes of legal documents and publish them on my website for you to read how the Court in Connecticut agreed with me. Yes, I, too, sued Kaiser Permanente for "denial of treatment and gross negligence."
Something else: I don't post anything willy-nilly, off the top of my head, with grab-the-rabbit-out-of-the-hat sensationalism if I didn't know what I was talking about. I kind of like to think that I do.
Go to any SQL based search engine and enter the words "Kaiser Permanent litigation," or "Litigation against Kaiser" and see what you get. Interesting, isn't it.
Wake up, people! HMOs are not in your best interest.
HMO = managed dollars first, then managed death.
(a feisty) kazoo
Posted by SalArmy4me on June 17, 2001, at 6:13:14
In reply to Re: Kaiser Permanente-the proof is in the cemetery » SalArmy4me, posted by kazoo on June 17, 2001, at 1:54:56
Number of lawsuits does not mean that Kaiser is any worse than any other HMO. HMO's get lawsuits filed over them all the time. And Kaiser is the biggest HMO in the country, so of course they will have lawsuits filed against them.
Posted by AKC on June 17, 2001, at 8:52:52
In reply to Kaiser / Topomax, posted by PuraVida on June 15, 2001, at 14:03:40
As I was suggesting discreetly earlier, and I think this is important for you Pura Vida, if you are not feeling like your doctor is hearing you, you always have the right to see another doctor. Whatever "evil" may exist within the Kaiser family, I have to believe that most doctors, even most Kaiser doctors, even the one you are seeing now, are looking out for their patients. But not all doctors are up-to-date or willing to try the cutting edge meds. If you are like many of us, you don't have a lot of choice on what health insurance you use. But you can see other doctors within that HMO. My question is, what would it hurt? You can always go back to your first doctor if the second one doesn't work out. I do think it is very important that you are doing what you are doing - educating yourself to the extreme. That education led me a week and half ago to this web-site - to learn about topamax! Good luck.
Posted by PuraVida on June 17, 2001, at 11:54:10
In reply to Re: Kaiser / Topomax - AGAIN » PuraVida, posted by AKC on June 17, 2001, at 8:52:52
Thanks AKC. I wanted to get my facts straight before I rocked the boat - I've suggested to my therapist before that I wanted to change docs, and she strongly discouraged me, saying he was one of the best, and that because of my history with him, he knew me the best and therefore could help me the best. Now that I know Topomax really is no big deal to prescribe at Kaiser, I think I will see someone else.
Thanks!
> As I was suggesting discreetly earlier, and I think this is important for you Pura Vida, if you are not feeling like your doctor is hearing you, you always have the right to see another doctor. Whatever "evil" may exist within the Kaiser family, I have to believe that most doctors, even most Kaiser doctors, even the one you are seeing now, are looking out for their patients. But not all doctors are up-to-date or willing to try the cutting edge meds. If you are like many of us, you don't have a lot of choice on what health insurance you use. But you can see other doctors within that HMO. My question is, what would it hurt? You can always go back to your first doctor if the second one doesn't work out. I do think it is very important that you are doing what you are doing - educating yourself to the extreme. That education led me a week and half ago to this web-site - to learn about topamax! Good luck.
This is the end of the thread.
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