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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by cole on October 17, 2000, at 19:25:27
when i saw my doc on friday we discussed using provigil daily with my remeron (45mg/ night) for stimulation (i'm still feeling fatigued) and to possibly offset the weight gain. i was taking ritalin as a study and concentration aid 10 mg PRN. i wanted to try provigil because it isn't supposed to cause dependence (which i think i develop pretty fast with the ritalin), and since i drive 3 hrs to see my doc the possibility of phone refills is good news. here's the story. i took a low dose (100mg, 1/2 my prescribed daily dose)this afternoon when i picked up the med, and i feel totally spaced out(5hrs later). i was under the impression this stuff would help with concentration, and i am feeling pretty foggy. i had a similar rxn to wellbutrin, which never got any better, and i took the wellbutrin for 3 weeks. i am noticing it has lowered my appetite, which i like, but the trade off isn't worth it if i'll continue to feel like this. i am wondering if anyone else has had a similar initial response, then had it go away? would a higher dose make it better? i am in school, and i can't bumble along in a fog attempting to do physics problems. i also have adrafinil which i ordered from euro, but haven't tried because of the possible liver enzyme side effect. has anyone tried adrafinil and had a better response? any ideas would be appreciated. i wanted this stuff to work, but i am feeling like my brain is full of cobwebs.
thanks,
cole
Posted by JohnL on October 18, 2000, at 4:41:33
In reply to provigil. . . adrafinil? , posted by cole on October 17, 2000, at 19:25:27
Cole,
Just my experience, but Adrafinil is so much better than Provigil I can't find the words to tell you.I had the EXACT same response to Provigil as you. Spaced out, easily exhausted, overall yuck. And oh my, what a price tag indeed! And like you, I also had the same reaction to Wellbutrin. So you and I could apparently be on the same page.
I certainly can't predict what the best thing to do is. But I can say, in your shoes, I would for myself order some Adrafinil today, stop Provigil today, start taking Adrafinil in about a week when you get it, and look for a good response from 2 to 4 weeks after that. All I can say is, it isn't anything like Provigil. Just the opposite. And the $25 price tag is nice. It amazes me how something so cheap and so mild can work so good. I don't understand that. Nevertheless, it works great, and that's all I care about. The cheap price is icing on the cake.
Like you, I also take Remeron, though my dose is much lower than yours. So I can verify from months of personal experience that Remeron and Adrafinil do go together rather nicely. This may be especially interesting since you and I seem similar in a lot of ways. If you try Adrafinil, don't expect immediate results. You may not feel anything for a week or two. I doubt seriously you'll feel any of the yuckiness you did with Provigil. And if you're like me, just one tab a day is all it will take for increased energy, motivation, renewed vitality, and improved cognition. It is strange though how these effects come on gradually over several weeks.
Someone mentioned concern over liver enzymes with Adrafinil, in another post. I forgot to address that. Hopefully they'll read this. The liver enzyme situation is rather rare, but occurs primarily at higher doses (3 to 4 tabs a day) for extended periods of time (months or years). Low doses like 1 or 2 tabs a day are not likely to be much of a risk. Regardless, it's always a wise move to have a liver test once or twice a year anyway while taking ANY psychiatric medication, not just Adrafinil. After six months with Adrafinil at one tab per day, my liver test came back looking the same as before I started.
John
Posted by cole on October 18, 2000, at 11:36:54
In reply to Re: provigil. . . adrafinil? , posted by JohnL on October 18, 2000, at 4:41:33
john,
thanks so much for your response. i am going to call my pdoc and discuss the adrafinil option. i actually have some that i ordered. my doc is generally open to new ideas, she was totally fine with me trying reboxetine (though it didn't do the trick). this stuff took over 2 months to get here. i felt fine with the provigil yesterday after about 5 hrs (the 1/2 life is 15). this morning i took the 100mgs, and 1 1/2 hrs later i'm feeling like i've been hit by a mac truck again. it really seems to effect me badly at first then taper off into a good level of alertness. perhaps the adrafinil will be the right med for me. . . well, i'll keep you posted on what my plans are. i'm interested in trying the adrafinil after hearing your experiences.
cole
Posted by SLS on October 18, 2000, at 18:17:40
In reply to provigil. . . adrafinil? , posted by cole on October 17, 2000, at 19:25:27
> when i saw my doc on friday we discussed using provigil daily with my remeron (45mg/ night) for stimulation (i'm still feeling fatigued) and to possibly offset the weight gain. i was taking ritalin as a study and concentration aid 10 mg PRN. i wanted to try provigil because it isn't supposed to cause dependence (which i think i develop pretty fast with the ritalin), and since i drive 3 hrs to see my doc the possibility of phone refills is good news. here's the story. i took a low dose (100mg, 1/2 my prescribed daily dose)this afternoon when i picked up the med, and i feel totally spaced out(5hrs later). i was under the impression this stuff would help with concentration, and i am feeling pretty foggy. i had a similar rxn to wellbutrin, which never got any better, and i took the wellbutrin for 3 weeks. i am noticing it has lowered my appetite, which i like, but the trade off isn't worth it if i'll continue to feel like this. i am wondering if anyone else has had a similar initial response, then had it go away? would a higher dose make it better? i am in school, and i can't bumble along in a fog attempting to do physics problems. i also have adrafinil which i ordered from euro, but haven't tried because of the possible liver enzyme side effect. has anyone tried adrafinil and had a better response? any ideas would be appreciated. i wanted this stuff to work, but i am feeling like my brain is full of cobwebs.
> thanks,
> cole
Hi Cole.When I tried Provigil, I experienced the same fogginess within five hours of my first dose. However, this effect disappeared in two days. I wouldn't stop taking Provigil until you give your system a chance to accomodate to it. If it continues for four days, I would consider making the switch if you want to persue adrafinil.
Good Luck.
- Scott
Posted by JohnL on October 19, 2000, at 3:49:52
In reply to Re: provigil. . . adrafinil? » JohnL, posted by cole on October 18, 2000, at 11:36:54
You might find that the yuckiness of provigil goes away after a few days. It didn't with me though. I gave it two weeks, and every single day of that two weeks was miserable. Never got any better.
John
Posted by cole on October 19, 2000, at 12:02:07
In reply to Re: provigil. . . adrafinil? Cole, posted by JohnL on October 19, 2000, at 3:49:52
well, i'm at day 3 on the stuff, and i decreased my dose today down to 50mg (from 100mg). i'm not feeling as foggy as i did yeterday or the day before. i think i may just be sensitive to the stuff and require subtherapeutic dosing. it is working very well on decreasing my appetite, which remeron puts into overdrive, and ritalin doesn't touch. i'm going to stick it out on a low dose for a week and see how i adjust, then try the adrafinil if i still feel goofy. thank you both for your input.
cole
Posted by JahL on October 19, 2000, at 17:00:22
In reply to Re: provigil. . . adrafinil? Cole, posted by JohnL on October 19, 2000, at 3:49:52
> You might find that the yuckiness of provigil goes away after a few days. It didn't with me though. I gave it two weeks, and every single day of that two weeks was miserable. Never got any better.
> JohnJohn. If Provigil was to work, would it have a similar delay in onset of action to Adrafinil?
Also, are you familiar with any research on Provigil as an augmentation agent for SSRIs?
I ask since I am about to trial both for dysthmia and social phobia. I am currently taking SULPIRIDE (tried AMISULPIRIDE), which helps the anxiety, and SERZONE(not working)
The fact that I am on a serotonin drug makes me inclined to plump for the Provigil first.....
Any response appreciated,
Ta,
Jah.
Posted by SLS on October 19, 2000, at 17:35:05
In reply to thanks for your responses!, posted by cole on October 19, 2000, at 12:02:07
> well, i'm at day 3 on the stuff, and i decreased my dose today down to 50mg (from 100mg). i'm not feeling as foggy as i did yeterday or the day before. i think i may just be sensitive to the stuff and require subtherapeutic dosing. it is working very well on decreasing my appetite, which remeron puts into overdrive, and ritalin doesn't touch. i'm going to stick it out on a low dose for a week and see how i adjust, then try the adrafinil if i still feel goofy. thank you both for your input.
> cole
Hi Cole.I read on another board not too long ago of several people who complained about experiencing a persistent "haziness" while they were taking Provigil. For some of these people, switching to adrafinil (Olmifon) got rid of the "haze", while retaining the cognitive enhancements that they had gleaned from Provigil.
- Scott
Posted by JohnL on October 20, 2000, at 5:28:06
In reply to Re: provigil. . . adrafinil? Q 4 JohnL., posted by JahL on October 19, 2000, at 17:00:22
JahL,
I think most of Provigil's effects take time. They are accumulative. However, one big difference I noticed right away between Provigil and Adrafinil is that Provigil lets you know you've taken something! It does have immediate side effects, which Adrafinil doesn't. With me anyway. Generally though, I would tend to say that Provigil is the faster acting of the two, and Adrafinil requires more time.There is research out there supporting Provigil augmentation for depression. It's still a fairly new drug though. Whether you should try Provigil or Adrafinil I think is a flip of the coin. One may work great while the other stinks. Or they both might be great. Or both lousy. Who knows. You know how it is, we all respond differently.
John
Posted by jacquie on April 14, 2001, at 21:37:27
In reply to Re: provigil. . . adrafinil? , posted by JohnL on October 18, 2000, at 4:41:33
JohnL
Would you combine Wellbutrin and Adrafinil together
or is that over doing it? I take Wellbutrin. I have
tried adranfinil, but found it effective in the first week,
but then it somehow seemed to fade away. Any thoughts??
jacquie
> Cole,
> Just my experience, but Adrafinil is so much better than Provigil I can't find the words to tell you.
>
> I had the EXACT same response to Provigil as you. Spaced out, easily exhausted, overall yuck. And oh my, what a price tag indeed! And like you, I also had the same reaction to Wellbutrin. So you and I could apparently be on the same page.
>
> I certainly can't predict what the best thing to do is. But I can say, in your shoes, I would for myself order some Adrafinil today, stop Provigil today, start taking Adrafinil in about a week when you get it, and look for a good response from 2 to 4 weeks after that. All I can say is, it isn't anything like Provigil. Just the opposite. And the $25 price tag is nice. It amazes me how something so cheap and so mild can work so good. I don't understand that. Nevertheless, it works great, and that's all I care about. The cheap price is icing on the cake.
>
> Like you, I also take Remeron, though my dose is much lower than yours. So I can verify from months of personal experience that Remeron and Adrafinil do go together rather nicely. This may be especially interesting since you and I seem similar in a lot of ways. If you try Adrafinil, don't expect immediate results. You may not feel anything for a week or two. I doubt seriously you'll feel any of the yuckiness you did with Provigil. And if you're like me, just one tab a day is all it will take for increased energy, motivation, renewed vitality, and improved cognition. It is strange though how these effects come on gradually over several weeks.
>
> Someone mentioned concern over liver enzymes with Adrafinil, in another post. I forgot to address that. Hopefully they'll read this. The liver enzyme situation is rather rare, but occurs primarily at higher doses (3 to 4 tabs a day) for extended periods of time (months or years). Low doses like 1 or 2 tabs a day are not likely to be much of a risk. Regardless, it's always a wise move to have a liver test once or twice a year anyway while taking ANY psychiatric medication, not just Adrafinil. After six months with Adrafinil at one tab per day, my liver test came back looking the same as before I started.
> John
Posted by JohnL on April 15, 2001, at 4:27:51
In reply to Re: provigil. . . adrafinil? » JohnL, posted by jacquie on April 14, 2001, at 21:37:27
Jacquie,
I don't see any problem combining Wellbutrin+Adrafinil. You'll just have to sample it and see. I would think if it overdoes it then you may get an excess norepinephrine type headache or maybe experience some anxiety.I have combined Adrafinil with all kinds of meds, but it seems to go especially well with Prozac, Zyprexa, or both. Like you I experienced a rather quick poopout when I took Adrafinil by itself. But with Prozac and/or Zyprexa it works great all the time. Not sure why. But I don't argue with results. For whatever reason, these drugs work for me.
John> JohnL
>
> Would you combine Wellbutrin and Adrafinil together
> or is that over doing it? I take Wellbutrin. I have
> tried adranfinil, but found it effective in the first week,
> but then it somehow seemed to fade away. Any thoughts??
> jacquie
>
>
> > Cole,
> > Just my experience, but Adrafinil is so much better than Provigil I can't find the words to tell you.
> >
> > I had the EXACT same response to Provigil as you. Spaced out, easily exhausted, overall yuck. And oh my, what a price tag indeed! And like you, I also had the same reaction to Wellbutrin. So you and I could apparently be on the same page.
> >
> > I certainly can't predict what the best thing to do is. But I can say, in your shoes, I would for myself order some Adrafinil today, stop Provigil today, start taking Adrafinil in about a week when you get it, and look for a good response from 2 to 4 weeks after that. All I can say is, it isn't anything like Provigil. Just the opposite. And the $25 price tag is nice. It amazes me how something so cheap and so mild can work so good. I don't understand that. Nevertheless, it works great, and that's all I care about. The cheap price is icing on the cake.
> >
> > Like you, I also take Remeron, though my dose is much lower than yours. So I can verify from months of personal experience that Remeron and Adrafinil do go together rather nicely. This may be especially interesting since you and I seem similar in a lot of ways. If you try Adrafinil, don't expect immediate results. You may not feel anything for a week or two. I doubt seriously you'll feel any of the yuckiness you did with Provigil. And if you're like me, just one tab a day is all it will take for increased energy, motivation, renewed vitality, and improved cognition. It is strange though how these effects come on gradually over several weeks.
> >
> > Someone mentioned concern over liver enzymes with Adrafinil, in another post. I forgot to address that. Hopefully they'll read this. The liver enzyme situation is rather rare, but occurs primarily at higher doses (3 to 4 tabs a day) for extended periods of time (months or years). Low doses like 1 or 2 tabs a day are not likely to be much of a risk. Regardless, it's always a wise move to have a liver test once or twice a year anyway while taking ANY psychiatric medication, not just Adrafinil. After six months with Adrafinil at one tab per day, my liver test came back looking the same as before I started.
> > John
This is the end of the thread.
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