![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 74. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by good4u on April 8, 2001, at 1:56:25
Has anyone had any experience w/ TRUEHOPE - the new nutrient program which is being tested @ Harvard now (supposedly)for treatment of many kinds of brain disorders, including BPD, OCD, Schiz., Anxiety, fibromyalgia, panic?
Posted by jacquie on April 8, 2001, at 17:24:16
In reply to TRUEHOPE, posted by good4u on April 8, 2001, at 1:56:25
> Has anyone had any experience w/ TRUEHOPE - the new nutrient program which is being tested @ Harvard now (supposedly)for treatment of many kinds of brain disorders, including BPD, OCD, Schiz., Anxiety, fibromyalgia, panic?
you had me curious so I did a search....
www.truehope.com there is a website.
Maybe you are already aware, but it is an
interesting site if it is the same nutrient
program you are talking about. Have fun!
Jacquie
Posted by Sulpicia on April 8, 2001, at 19:38:48
In reply to TRUEHOPE, posted by good4u on April 8, 2001, at 1:56:25
> Hi --
some posters on another board [bipolar disorder at the neurology webforum at Mass General] have posted
about this. The general consensus is that this is expensive hype *based* on 10 anecdotal reports. No studies,
no research, no nothing in fact. Sad to say it does appear to be yet another web site selling a miracle cure.
I can guarantee you that Truehope stuff is not being tested at Harvard.YOu might be interested in Harvard pdoc Andrew Stoll's The Omega Nutrition Solution -- try amazon.com or look
him up. His research [published in peer-reviewed journals] shows that people with bipolar disorder had fewer
relapses with essential fatty acid supplements -- huge caveat THEY WERE ALL ON PRESCRIPTION MOOD STABILIZERS AND
NOBODY WENT OFF OR DECREASED THEIR MEDS. There is absolutely no evidence that EFAs are helpful by themselves.
And you have to watch the ratio of the EFAs -- so do research.
Good luck.
S.
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 8, 2001, at 21:08:10
In reply to Re: TRUEHOPE » good4u, posted by Sulpicia on April 8, 2001, at 19:38:48
> The general consensus is that this is expensive hype *based* on 10 anecdotal reports. No studies, no research, no nothing in fact. Sad to say it does appear to be yet another web site selling a miracle cure.
Right, don't necessarily believe everything you hear. FYI, I've collected a few links on the quality of online information:
http://www.dr-bob.org/quality.html
Bob
Posted by jacquie on April 9, 2001, at 4:18:39
In reply to Re: caveat emptor, posted by Dr. Bob on April 8, 2001, at 21:08:10
> > The general consensus is that this is expensive hype *based* on 10 anecdotal reports. No studies, no research, no nothing in fact. Sad to say it does appear to be yet another web site selling a miracle cure.
>
> Right, don't necessarily believe everything you hear. FYI, I've collected a few links on the quality of online information:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/quality.html
>
> BobSorry if I interferred with this post. I was not
assuming it was a site with a wealth of
pertinent medical findings, but merely a site I
located while searching for other things. I am
not a medical professional and apologize if I
have offended any of you here. The site is
was merely a finding. I was not promoting it
as a panacea.
J.
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 9, 2001, at 21:50:04
In reply to Re: caveat emptor, posted by jacquie on April 9, 2001, at 4:18:39
> The site is
> was merely a finding. I was not promoting it
> as a panacea.No problem, it wasn't your post we were responding to. :-)
Bob
Posted by stjames on April 9, 2001, at 23:59:22
In reply to TRUEHOPE, posted by good4u on April 8, 2001, at 1:56:25
> Has anyone had any experience w/ TRUEHOPE - the new nutrient program which is being tested @ Harvard now (supposedly)for treatment of many kinds of brain disorders, including BPD, OCD, Schiz., Anxiety, fibromyalgia, panic?
james here....
The first sign of a hoax is that it treats everything. Is it a floor wax ? An antiseziure
med ? a mouthwash ?James
Posted by jacquie on April 10, 2001, at 4:21:39
In reply to Re: TRUEHOPE, posted by stjames on April 9, 2001, at 23:59:22
> > Has anyone had any experience w/ TRUEHOPE - the new nutrient program which is being tested @ Harvard now (supposedly)for treatment of many kinds of brain disorders, including BPD, OCD, Schiz., Anxiety, fibromyalgia, panic?
>
> james here....
>
> The first sign of a hoax is that it treats everything. Is it a floor wax ? An antiseziure
> med ? a mouthwash ?
>
> JamesJames...what the world world needs is more of your humor.
I just about fell off my chair. Thank you.
Jacquie
Posted by jacquie on April 10, 2001, at 4:24:33
In reply to Re: not to worry, posted by Dr. Bob on April 9, 2001, at 21:50:04
> > The site is
> > was merely a finding. I was not promoting it
> > as a panacea.
>
> No problem, it wasn't your post we were responding to. :-)
>
> Bob
Dr.
Whew, had me worried there. I have seen some not
so nice battles on these sites where people were
inocently offering info and nothing more. I do
feel bad for "good4u" as he/she never responded again.
Thanks for the reassurance.
J
Posted by good4u on April 10, 2001, at 10:51:35
In reply to Re: TRUEHOPE » good4u, posted by Sulpicia on April 8, 2001, at 19:38:48
> > Hi --
> some posters on another board [bipolar disorder at the neurology webforum at Mass General] have posted
> about this. The general consensus is that this is expensive hype *based* on 10 anecdotal reports. No studies,
> no research, no nothing in fact. Sad to say it does appear to be yet another web site selling a miracle cure.
> I can guarantee you that Truehope stuff is not being tested at Harvard.
>
> YOu might be interested in Harvard pdoc Andrew Stoll's The Omega Nutrition Solution -- try amazon.com or look
> him up. His research [published in peer-reviewed journals] shows that people with bipolar disorder had fewer
> relapses with essential fatty acid supplements -- huge caveat THEY WERE ALL ON PRESCRIPTION MOOD STABILIZERS AND
> NOBODY WENT OFF OR DECREASED THEIR MEDS. There is absolutely no evidence that EFAs are helpful by themselves.
> And you have to watch the ratio of the EFAs -- so do research.
> Good luck.
> S.
Dear S.How can you guarantee this is not being researched at Harvard?
Posted by stjames on April 10, 2001, at 11:30:04
In reply to Re: TRUEHOPE, posted by good4u on April 10, 2001, at 10:51:35
> Dear S.
>
> How can you guarantee this is not being researched at Harvard?
james here....Since you introduced this issue why don't you find out it if it is being researched by Harvard.
James
Posted by good4u on April 10, 2001, at 14:46:18
In reply to Re: TRUEHOPE, posted by stjames on April 10, 2001, at 11:30:04
> > Dear S.
> >
> > How can you guarantee this is not being researched at Harvard?
>
>
> james here....
>
> Since you introduced this issue why don't you find out it if it is being researched by Harvard.
>
> James
> > james here....
> >
> > The first sign of a hoax is that it treats everything. Is it a floor wax ? An antiseziure
> > med ? a mouthwash ?Yeah..thanks for your input folks (james and jacquie)..but what I ACTUALLY need instead of your "humor" is people who can understand WHY the stuff doesn't work - if in fact it doesn't - and actually find out whether or not research IS or IS NOT being done elsewhere on this concept....since you all know so much about neurology and psychopharmacology, brain mechanisms and the interactions of 100 billion neurons and 1000 times as many neural connections, can you actually offer some helpful advice rather than blindly bashing a formula that has SOME chance of working, or that might be the introduction of an innovative concept, or offer hope to a young man who has been thru incompetent dr after incompetent dr, and ineffective med after ineffective med? or shall we just hop around message boards posting inane responses/comments to questions asked in earnest, after much research. Or should we just keep indulging in the short term fixes pushed by pharm companies, and their scientists who have no more idea of the effect or side effects of these drugs than you or I. Again, any helpful input is greatly appreciated.
Posted by stjames on April 10, 2001, at 15:13:30
In reply to Re: TRUEHOPE, posted by good4u on April 10, 2001, at 14:46:18
Or should we just keep indulging in the short term fixes pushed by pharm companies, and their scientists who have no more idea of the effect or side effects of these drugs than you or I. Again, any helpful input is greatly appreciated.
James here.....
AD's and other meds have worked well for me for over 15 yrs so I question if meds in general are a short term fix. I also question the statement " scientists who have no more idea of the effect or side effects of these drugs than you or I" as there is a huge body of research from over 50 years.
Maybe if you would outline what condition you have and what you have tried in the past, either sucessful or not, this board could point you toward ways to get better.
james
Posted by Sulpicia on April 10, 2001, at 17:18:20
In reply to Re: TRUEHOPE, posted by good4u on April 10, 2001, at 10:51:35
> > >
>
> Dear S.
>
> How can you guarantee this is not being researched at Harvard?first here is a list of the ingredients in the purported miracle cure:
http://www.truehope.com/misc%20files/ingredients_list.htmI can use my common sense to guarantee that Harvard is not researching
a non-medical for-profit miracle cure for 6 psychiatric disorders based
on anecdotal evidence, but to be fair I also looked at the FDA clinical
trials web site.
I'm with James -- tell us what gives and maybe we can suggest. Most of us
have been around the block a few times.
Please pardon me if my original post was a bit strident. I spend a lot of time
defusing nonsense like this for moms with kids. I've seen some horrible things happen
and I tend to over-react.
Best,
S. :):)
Posted by stjames on April 10, 2001, at 18:19:28
In reply to Re: TRUEHOPE » good4u, posted by Sulpicia on April 10, 2001, at 17:18:20
> > How can you guarantee this is not being researched at Harvard?
>
> first here is a list of the ingredients in the purported miracle cure:
> http://www.truehope.com/misc%20files/ingredients_list.htm
>James here....
It is a vitamin pill, no different than what you can buy at Wal Mart.
james
Posted by Fred Potter on April 10, 2001, at 20:21:28
In reply to Re: TRUEHOPE, posted by good4u on April 10, 2001, at 14:46:18
Good for you good4U. I think it's best to be an open-minded skeptic, not a closed-minded one. Would we have bashed Insulin and Penicilin? They seemed too good to be true. Let's not miss anything that might be out there.
What's all this pre-occupation with Harvard? I realise Calgary isn't in the States. Does that make it inferior? I must admit however, a sample size of 10 is not impressive.
Posted by Truth is hard to find on May 31, 2001, at 0:32:31
In reply to Caveat Skeptor » good4u, posted by Fred Potter on April 10, 2001, at 20:21:28
I attended a presentation by the "TRUEHOPE" folks at McLeans's Hospital in Belmont, Ma. Also speaking at the same meeting was Dr. Andy Stoll, mentioned in some previous notes on this subject.
In summary:
The TRUEHOPE people were able to present NO double-blind studies to support their hypothesis that their vitamin supplement is effective.
Their presentation was based COMPLETELY on testamonials of about a dozen people (out of some 2000+ persons they claim have used the vitamin supplement.
Re Harvard: When I directly questioned a TRUEHOPE rep about web reports of theirs discussing research done at Harvard, he advised me that this referred to 1 doctor who had done 1 study on 1 patient. Unfortunately, he advised me that the name of the doctor had to be kept "confidential" and he could not reveal this doctor's name!
The TRUEHOPE people were NOT able to state when ANY double-blind study results would be available.
I spoke with Dr. Andy Stoll. He DOES NOT associate himself with this company or their claims. He would like to do a study of similar nutritional supplements, but at present there is no study planned. He does not believe that he will get clinical approval for a study that would require termination of medication during the vitamin regime, as the TRUEHOPE people's plan requires.
You may contact me for any more details.
Posted by Deb_s on May 31, 2001, at 9:39:45
In reply to Re: TRUEHOPE, posted by good4u on April 10, 2001, at 14:46:18
> > > Dear S.
> > >
> > > How can you guarantee this is not being researched at Harvard?
> >
> >
> > james here....
> >
> > Since you introduced this issue why don't you find out it if it is being researched by Harvard.
> >
> > James
>
>
> > > james here....
> > >
> > > The first sign of a hoax is that it treats everything. Is it a floor wax ? An antiseziure
> > > med ? a mouthwash ?
>
> Yeah..thanks for your input folks (james and jacquie)..but what I ACTUALLY need instead of your "humor" is people who can understand WHY the stuff doesn't work - if in fact it doesn't - and actually find out whether or not research IS or IS NOT being done elsewhere on this concept....since you all know so much about neurology and psychopharmacology, brain mechanisms and the interactions of 100 billion neurons and 1000 times as many neural connections, can you actually offer some helpful advice rather than blindly bashing a formula that has SOME chance of working, or that might be the introduction of an innovative concept, or offer hope to a young man who has been thru incompetent dr after incompetent dr, and ineffective med after ineffective med? or shall we just hop around message boards posting inane responses/comments to questions asked in earnest, after much research. Or should we just keep indulging in the short term fixes pushed by pharm companies, and their scientists who have no more idea of the effect or side effects of these drugs than you or I. Again, any helpful input is greatly appreciated.
I'm with you 100% !!!First of all, saying it's a "vitamin pill, available at WalMart" shows an extremely closed mind on the subject. There is a great deal more to it than that.
Two, I have heard that Harvard is conducting a study, and have not been able to "confirm" it, although presumably it will be published when it is completed. I surfed a bit at Harvard's research site and it seems like they're conducting about a gazillion studies, so I reached no conclusions.
The statement by Sulpicia, "I can guarantee you that Truehope stuff is not being tested at Harvard." What's with that????
I have been treated for depression for about forever, and with meds the past 8 years or so. Indeed, for short periods of time, the antidepressants helped enormously. Then not so much. It's been a hell of a roller coaster. Then I hit menopause (I'm 51), so the doctors added in Synthroid (my family doctor said it wasn't necessary, but my shrink said it was a good idea, so just in case ... ), and PremPro (seemed like a good idea at the time; was rather a coin-toss decision).
By January 2001, I was taking:
Wellbutrin 450mg/day
Prozac 140mg/day
PremPro 0.625mg /2.5mg 1/day
Synthroid 0.025mg/dayAnd just barely getting by. I didn't know who I was anymore. No energy, very little short-term memory, and ziltch confidence about the future. Etc. (you all can fill in the blanks). Since the meds weren't working, the next step was going to be ECT.
I told my shrink I was going to try the "pig pill" program. She gave me all sorts of caveats, but distinctly missing was ANY looking, whatsoever, at the facts about the program itself. Assuming, since it seemed too good to be true, that it was, she put on her automatic allopathic physician hat and essentially gave me the message that I
had no ability to make decisions about myself. I haven't been back to her since (I can't afford it, for one thing, because my health insurance won't pay for "outpatient" mental health visits).I posted some of this on:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010302/msgs/55836.htmlI started taking E.M. Power, a multi-vitamin and mineral supplement, on February 4th, and weaned off my medications week-by-week. I did not have any of the dramatic withdrawal symptoms I had had on other occasions. I started napping less, remembering more, and finding pleasure in life again.
I've been gradually improving. I hit a rocky spot these last few weeks when I decided to eliminate the hormones and thyroid medication.
I now hot flash about every 3 minutes (seems like, anyway) and feel pretty logy (that's midwestern for sluggish). I still don't nap during the day anymore (for at least 3 years, I couldn't get through the day without a long nap).
I'm functioning very well in contrast to six months ago. I'm more emotional, but it's under control. I don't feel so helpless, although
I admit it's still scary.Yes, my case is anecdotal. I'm not advocating the "pig pills" one way or the other. I'm doing much better, and am glad I took this leap of faith. Should I not speak up, because there is not a published, double-blind study out there? How many permutations of individuals, chemicals, drugs, vitamins, minerals, and combinations thereof are there in the world? How long would it take to do a double-blind study of all those permutations? We would have to wait for someone to "think of" a possible solution, then test that particular solution, then try again ...
I am not going to live that long. I admire and appreciate the wonder of antidepressants and other medications, but I do not trust the drug companies.
I started on "pig pills" for two simple reasons:
1. I felt I had run out of other options, and had nothing to lose.
2. My husband was a pig farmer, and he knows what an enormous effect chemicals can have on living organisms.
The theory behind the "pig pills" is that the brain needs certain ingredients to do what it has to do, that some people need more of some than others, and that our diet is not providing what we need in the quantities needed. Our farming methods take some of these nutrients out of the soil, without replacing them.
We have a lot to learn about how it all works.
P.S. "Facts" about the "pig pill" program for anyone interested:
cost is about $70/bottle, 2 bottles/month needed initially (32 pills a day - gulp!)
you are assigned a "personal assistant", a real human being who is with you all the way (not a sales person, but someone with experience in this program). I like mine a lot. we keep in touch mostly by email, but we've also talked on the phone a few times. he's got four little kids and his wife has become involved in this, too.
you keep a daily log of symptoms per DSM-IV checklist, and send it weekly to your assistant, who tracks your progress
site is www.truehope.com and yes, it's corny. but just as the information given doesn't prove that there's anything valid here, it doesn't prove that it's NOT valid, either.
Posted by Sulpicia on May 31, 2001, at 13:42:44
In reply to Re: TRUEHOPE, posted by Deb_s on May 31, 2001, at 9:39:45
> > > > The statement by Sulpicia, "I can guarantee you that Truehope stuff is not being tested at Harvard." What's with that????
>
> Hi Deb--
I'm glad you've found some relief.
I want to clarify my statement and answer your question.
A poster on this forum claimed that the Truehope supplements were being tested at Harvard University.
Tho it sounded unlikely, I checked Harvard's Red Book -- it's on-line and details all current research
at Harvard and the investigators involved. There is no mention of Truehope. Yet to be doubly sure, I sent
a link to the thread here to the Harvard Office of Public Affairs.
No such research is on-going at Harvard and they were NOT pleased with the claims to the contrary. As I
write this, the matter is still in the hands of the Office of Public Affairs.The fact that you have found relief and Truehope's lack of scientific confirmation are not mutually exclusive.
I *do* object to any group, especially lay-people, who tell psychiatric patients to abruptly stop their meds: it
puts suffering people at risk of death.On a more personal level, I find the chart for Moms to track their autistic children's *progress* on the Truehope
stuff obscene. I nearly threw up when I saw it on the web site.I don't begrudge you your happiness but let's not pretend that there is an evidentiary basis for the Truehope supplements
at the present time.
I also cannot reconcile the dishonesty involved with a group who claims that they only want to help people.My opinion.
Be well,
S.
Posted by Deb_s on May 31, 2001, at 14:24:56
In reply to Re: TRUEHOPE/clarification » Deb_s, posted by Sulpicia on May 31, 2001, at 13:42:44
> > > > > The statement by Sulpicia, "I can guarantee you that Truehope stuff is not being tested at Harvard." What's with that????
> >
> > Hi Deb--
> I'm glad you've found some relief.
> I want to clarify my statement and answer your question.
> A poster on this forum claimed that the Truehope supplements were being tested at Harvard University.
> Tho it sounded unlikely, I checked Harvard's Red Book -- it's on-line and details all current research
> at Harvard and the investigators involved. There is no mention of Truehope. Yet to be doubly sure, I sent
> a link to the thread here to the Harvard Office of Public Affairs.
> No such research is on-going at Harvard and they were NOT pleased with the claims to the contrary. As I
> write this, the matter is still in the hands of the Office of Public Affairs.
Thanks for your response! I'm very intrigued by this, but still not entirely convinced, as I know (since this is what I do) that research can be very tricky. "Truehope" is the name of the website, and "Synergy Group" the name of the organization, and E.M. Power the name of the product, but I wouldn't be sure how to find out the name of the research study itself. A key seems to be chelated minerals. It is much easier to prove that something exists than that it does not. Do you know how the Harvard public affairs folks looked for this research?> I *do* object to any group, especially lay-people, who tell psychiatric patients to abruptly stop their meds: it
> puts suffering people at risk of death.I agree; but to be fair, Truehope does not tell psychiatric patients to abruptly stop their meds; in fact, they advise working closely with your physician, etc.
>
> I don't begrudge you your happiness but let's not pretend that there is an evidentiary basis for the Truehope supplements
> at the present time.I never so "pretended" - but i'm really fed up with the "crap shoot" i've been involved with with antidepressant medication - have you ever looked at the information sheets? mechanism of action unknown, dosage unknown, reason it works unknown, cause of depression unknown, side effects ... (every time i got a side effect, my doctor would say, gosh, i never heard of that happening before!).
seems to me that with antidepressants, and everything else, if it works, it works, and if it doesn't, it doesn't. very scientific, yes?
> I also cannot reconcile the dishonesty involved with a group who claims that they only want to help people.
I'm not sure on what you base the "dishonesty" bit - I haven't seen Truehope "claim" anything, nor does it seem to be pushing a product.
We'll all see, I guess.
Posted by Jane D on May 31, 2001, at 14:36:20
In reply to Re: TRUEHOPE/clarification, posted by Deb_s on May 31, 2001, at 14:24:56
> I'm not sure on what you base the "dishonesty" bit - I haven't seen Truehope "claim" anything, nor does it seem to be pushing a product.
>Deb,
I'm a bit confused. On another thread you said that this cost about $120. a month. Aren't you buying this from Truehope?
Jane
Posted by good4u on May 31, 2001, at 15:07:36
In reply to Re: TRUEHOPE/clarification, posted by Jane D on May 31, 2001, at 14:36:20
> > I'm not sure on what you base the "dishonesty" bit - I haven't seen Truehope "claim" anything, nor does it seem to be pushing a product.
> >
>
> Deb,
>
> I'm a bit confused. On another thread you said that this cost about $120. a month. Aren't you buying this from Truehope?
>
> Jane
There IS a product which they are selling, 4 sure. I also know, however, that it costs money to create, manufacture, and market a product. And to devote yourself fulltime to a job,cause,project, etc. requires money - quite possibly supported by sales of the product. Who would give the company money for an unproven, non-pharmaceutical-based product? ummm..."no one" is one very-possible answer...I'm trying NOT to be overly idealistic/optimistic about the product, nor overly skeptical - though clearly the desire to believe is stronger. Like everyone else, I'm just anxiously awaiting results of research studies. "TRUEHOPE" is at this point a perfect description of our attitudes regarding the ACTUAL effectiveness of the product.
Posted by Cam W. on May 31, 2001, at 15:25:19
In reply to Re: TRUEHOPE/clarification, posted by good4u on May 31, 2001, at 15:07:36
Doesn't work.
Posted by Jane D on May 31, 2001, at 15:38:34
In reply to Re: TRUEHOPE/clarification, posted by good4u on May 31, 2001, at 15:07:36
> > > I'm not sure on what you base the "dishonesty" bit - I haven't seen Truehope "claim" anything, nor does it seem to be pushing a product.
> > >
> >
> > Deb,
> >
> > I'm a bit confused. On another thread you said that this cost about $120. a month. Aren't you buying this from Truehope?
> >
> > Jane
>
>
> There IS a product which they are selling, 4 sure. I also know, however, that it costs money to create, manufacture, and market a product. And to devote yourself fulltime to a job,cause,project, etc. requires money - quite possibly supported by sales of the product. Who would give the company money for an unproven, non-pharmaceutical-based product? ummm..."no one" is one very-possible answer...I'm trying NOT to be overly idealistic/optimistic about the product, nor overly skeptical - though clearly the desire to believe is stronger. Like everyone else, I'm just anxiously awaiting results of research studies. "TRUEHOPE" is at this point a perfect description of our attitudes regarding the ACTUAL effectiveness of the product.Yet my multivitamin, with almost the same ingredients, costs about two dollars a month. And convincing people to pay huge amounts of money for hope alone has been a profitable business for centuries.
Posted by stjames on May 31, 2001, at 15:47:22
In reply to Re: TRUEHOPE profits » good4u, posted by Jane D on May 31, 2001, at 15:38:34
> Yet my multivitamin, with almost the same ingredients, costs about two dollars a month. And convincing people to pay huge amounts of money for hope alone has been a profitable business for centuries.
james here...
Looking at the ingredients for TRUEHOPE it is just a multivitamin, no more. Why pay $120.00 ?
james
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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