![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 588 to 612 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by Seraphim on March 23, 2001, at 14:07:39
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Leo,
Please, PLEASE, keep updating on your progress. I have experienced almost all of the bad side effects and the worst of the withdrawal symptoms. I need encouragement to continue cutting back my dosage. I didn't realize I was going through withdrawals from effexor when I either took my medicine late or forgot all together,until I had truly terrifying experiences halfway through the second day without effexor. Looking back, these same symptoms would start within three hours of a missed dose, though. My doctor never told me how important it was not to miss a dose or take it late. I thought I still had a refill of my prescription left; I was wrong, and it was the weekend. I'll spare the details, but it was so awful. I got so sick, shaky, feelings like I was moving when I wasn't, etc...Two days later I found these postings. Now two weeks later, I'm down to 150mg from 300mg a day. The withdrawal symptoms have been horrid, but I can't wait to get it out of my system. I have lost 12 pounds. The only high point. Please keep in touch. Should Janie happen to read this:
IT IS NOT JUST A MINDSET! I thank God I found these postings when I did.
Posted by willow on March 23, 2001, at 14:22:41
In reply to Re: McGuyver - A Breath of Fresh Air, posted by Diane J. on March 23, 2001, at 12:26:35
As I've posted before, I'm doing really well with the help of this medication. This week when I had my prescriptions refilled I enquired how long I would be taking and how long it is safe to take it. My doctor replied for life. Am I upset by this? No, I'm actually relieved and jubilant to be doing so well and to know that the future can be the same.
As it is now, there are no CURES for chronic conditions. Presently I'm content with being able to manage.
Whistling Willow
Posted by Seraphim on March 23, 2001, at 14:26:53
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
These postings may have saved my life; literally. I had no idea that the symptoms - side effects and withdrawal - were shared by others. I am an intelligent person (albeit inexperienced with prescription medication): I read the information given to me on Effexor; by my doctor, by my pharmacist, and on-line from Wyeth. It took a few days of not having any Effexor (prescription ran out on a weekend, thought I had a refill; was wrong) to associate the horrid symptoms to lack of the drug. All this was experienced BEFORE I ever found this site. I am now weaning off of this drug and still experiencing withdrawal, but refuse to be chained to a medication that has so adversely effected me. I do think we should all try to go into life experiences with a positive mindset - but - EFFEXOR WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS ARE NOT PSYCHOSOMATIC!
Posted by Seraphim on March 23, 2001, at 14:42:30
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Willow,
It is good to know that Effexor is working for you. I would be wary of a doctor that wants to chain you to any drug for life. My doctor has told me that after a year of stability and treatment, it is possible to go drug free and try to lead a happy life. I know it's not possible for everyone, and I'm not there yet, although I am weaning off Effexor because of adverse side effects and withdrawal symptoms. Everyone is different. Just stay informed, don't miss a dose or take one late, and be very careful. I do wish you the best. Everyone deserves to be happy and optimistic again.
Posted by Janie on March 23, 2001, at 15:59:03
In reply to Re: Real or Mindset - Janie, posted by Seraphim on March 23, 2001, at 14:26:53
> These postings may have saved my life; literally. I had no idea that the symptoms - side effects and withdrawal - were shared by others. I am an intelligent person (albeit inexperienced with prescription medication): I read the information given to me on Effexor; by my doctor, by my pharmacist, and on-line from Wyeth. It took a few days of not having any Effexor (prescription ran out on a weekend, thought I had a refill; was wrong) to associate the horrid symptoms to lack of the drug. All this was experienced BEFORE I ever found this site. I am now weaning off of this drug and still experiencing withdrawal, but refuse to be chained to a medication that has so adversely effected me. I do think we should all try to go into life experiences with a positive mindset - but - EFFEXOR WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS ARE NOT PSYCHOSOMATIC!
____________Dear ALL,
I believe the definitions of "Mind-set" and "Psychosomatic" are VERY different. I CLEARLY stated that it was NOT my intention to imply that symptoms associated with taking Effexor or withdrawing from the drug were "figments of the imagination." My point, missed by most, was that by reading many of these posts, one MIGHT associate a number of physiological conditions with Effexor, when in fact, there is NO correlation. OR...to go one step further, the mere "anticipation" of an experience can lead the mind to play dirty tricks...oh, the power of suggestion.I was simply baffled by the number of posters who continued to take the drug following the onset of crippling, debilitating, life-threatening symptomatology...and then engage in Effexor bashing, as if being FORCED to swallow the "lethal" drug by some strange habit or compulsion.
While the drug, no doubt, has some nasty withdrawal side effects, these CAN be controlled and minimalized with a sensible approach to weaning over whatever amount of time is required. No need to be a hero...right, folks? This is not natural childbirth!!!
Having never taken any medication similar to Effexor, with the exception of Buspar, I am hesitant to say whether I would recommend it to a friend. Certainly, a forewarning seems appropriate in this case.
If Leo is representative of the majority of Effexor users, then we may all look forward to basking on the beaches of the French Riviera, enjoying our award from the class action suit.
A New Straw in the Drink
Janie
BSN, M.ED, M.A.
ER Nurse Specialist (and much, much more)P.S. I am quite accustomed to feisty debate on classical music discussion sites, so my flame-proof suit is always pressed and starched. :-)
Posted by Seraphim on March 23, 2001, at 16:54:29
In reply to Re: Real or Mindset - Janie » Seraphim, posted by Janie on March 23, 2001, at 15:59:03
Janie,
1."OR...to go one step further, the mere "anticipation" of an experience can lead the mind to play dirty tricks...oh, the power of suggestion." - Isn't that statement not very close to the definition of psychosomatic?
2."engage in Effexor bashing, as if being FORCED to swallow the "lethal" drug by some strange habit or compulsion." - Maybe I'm wrong here too,(although I doubt it) but I do believe that people taking Effexor become physically addicted to the medication, ergo... the hateful withdrawal symptoms.
3. "If Leo is representative of the majority of Effexor users, then we may all look forward to basking on the beaches of the French Riviera, enjoying our award from the class action suit."
- I don't even know Leo and I feel the need to defend. Whether it is Effexor or any other prescription medication, we all have the right to full disclosure of ALL of the potential complications, long-term effects, and WARNINGS of the fast on-set of withdrawal and ensuing danger signs. To imply that the motivation is monetary, self-serving and rewarding in some way ... I believe is offensive, largely inaccurate and very cynical of you. This isn't like suing McDonald's because some idiot spilled coffee in his lap and thought there should have been a warning. (and no I have no intention to sue, but will try to get this information out in any way possible) People NEED TO KNOW what may happen to their body, mind and spirit on this medication. I was taking 300mg a day. Just maybe there is a difference between the severity of withdrawal symptoms at different dosages. Point being - I should have been told to always take the medication on time and to never, ever miss a dose. I wasn't! And yes I am resentful of the fact. It was a nightmare after missing two doses. It was very hard for my husband to witness, and I am very thankful to have someone there for me.4.Just to reiterate - "I do think we should all try to go into life experiences with a positive mind-set" - I do agree with you on at least one point.
P.S. - I'm sorry, but I fail to see what your debating skills have to do with a serious issue involving informing as many people as possible of information that they have the right to know, and should have already been aware of (whether everyone will experience it or not).
It sounds as if you find this an amusing past-time. How very, very sad your life must be.
> > These postings may have saved my life; literally. I had no idea that the symptoms - side effects and withdrawal - were shared by others. I am an intelligent person (albeit inexperienced with prescription medication): I read the information given to me on Effexor; by my doctor, by my pharmacist, and on-line from Wyeth. It took a few days of not having any Effexor (prescription ran out on a weekend, thought I had a refill; was wrong) to associate the horrid symptoms to lack of the drug. All this was experienced BEFORE I ever found this site. I am now weaning off of this drug and still experiencing withdrawal, but refuse to be chained to a medication that has so adversely effected me. I do think we should all try to go into life experiences with a positive mindset - but - EFFEXOR WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS ARE NOT PSYCHOSOMATIC!
> ____________
>
> Dear ALL,
> I believe the definitions of "Mind-set" and "Psychosomatic" are VERY different. I CLEARLY stated that it was NOT my intention to imply that symptoms associated with taking Effexor or withdrawing from the drug were "figments of the imagination." My point, missed by most, was that by reading many of these posts, one MIGHT associate a number of physiological conditions with Effexor, when in fact, there is NO correlation. OR...to go one step further, the mere "anticipation" of an experience can lead the mind to play dirty tricks...oh, the power of suggestion.
>
> I was simply baffled by the number of posters who continued to take the drug following the onset of crippling, debilitating, life-threatening symptomatology...and then engage in Effexor bashing, as if being FORCED to swallow the "lethal" drug by some strange habit or compulsion.
>
> While the drug, no doubt, has some nasty withdrawal side effects, these CAN be controlled and minimalized with a sensible approach to weaning over whatever amount of time is required. No need to be a hero...right, folks? This is not natural childbirth!!!
>
> Having never taken any medication similar to Effexor, with the exception of Buspar, I am hesitant to say whether I would recommend it to a friend. Certainly, a forewarning seems appropriate in this case.
>
> If Leo is representative of the majority of Effexor users, then we may all look forward to basking on the beaches of the French Riviera, enjoying our award from the class action suit.
>
> A New Straw in the Drink
> Janie
> BSN, M.ED, M.A.
> ER Nurse Specialist (and much, much more)
>
> P.S. I am quite accustomed to feisty debate on classical music discussion sites, so my flame-proof suit is always pressed and starched. :-)
Posted by Cam W. on March 23, 2001, at 18:16:06
In reply to Re: Real or Mindset - Janie » Janie, posted by Seraphim on March 23, 2001, at 16:54:29
Janie - One of the major problems of developing a drug for marketing is the way the FDA or Health Canada (or other regulatory agency) has to conduct clinical trials for approval (ie the randomized placebo controlled clinical trial). These trials use groups of people who are not indicative of the general population. These people are closely watched for any problems that may arise, unlike "real world" treatments. People in these trials are monitored for compliance and the trials are usually only short term (eg 6 to 8 weeks). While withdrawl was noticed in some of these participants, the true extent of the problem was not realized until after the drug was approved for use.
The problem of Effexor withdrawl has been known for years, it is just that it really reared it's ugly head after the drug was marketed (ie in uncontrolled, naturalistic circumstances). Wyeth-Ayerst should have been more diligent in informing doctors of the extent to which it could occur. I truly believe that they did not know how bad withdrawl could be for some people. Still a vast majority have few, if any withdrawl symptoms and many that do shrug off the effects as a cold or mailaise from stopping the drug.
Still, if handled correctly by a physician, almost all cases of Effexor withdrawl can be minimized. There was a very good article written in 1997 (I believe; perhaps 1996) which showed that intractable Effexor withdrawl could be alleviated using Prozac for a couple of weeks. It is a shame that more doctors are not aware of the extent to which some people get withdrawl symptoms. Much of this is probably because a majority of people do not get severe withdrawl. Hopefully, as time goes on, many more docs will become aware of the extent of the withdrawl syndrome in some people and will monitor withdrawl more closely.
I hope this is of some help in describing the state of affairs in regard to Effexor withdrawl. - Cam
Posted by Cam W. on March 23, 2001, at 18:19:01
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawl » Seraphim, posted by Cam W. on March 23, 2001, at 18:16:06
Seraphim- One of the major problems of developing a drug for marketing is the way the FDA or Health Canada (or other regulatory agency) has to conduct clinical trials for approval (ie the randomized placebo controlled clinical trial). These trials use groups of people who are not indicative of the general population. These people are closely watched for any problems that may arise, unlike "real world" treatments. People in these trials are monitored for compliance and the trials are usually only short term (eg 6 to 8 weeks). While withdrawl was noticed in some of these participants, the true extent of the problem was not realized until after the drug was approved for use.
>
> The problem of Effexor withdrawl has been known for years, it is just that it really reared it's ugly head after the drug was marketed (ie in uncontrolled, naturalistic circumstances). Wyeth-Ayerst should have been more diligent in informing doctors of the extent to which it could occur. I truly believe that they did not know how bad withdrawl could be for some people. Still a vast majority have few, if any withdrawl symptoms and many that do shrug off the effects as a cold or mailaise from stopping the drug.
>
> Still, if handled correctly by a physician, almost all cases of Effexor withdrawl can be minimized. There was a very good article written in 1997 (I believe; perhaps 1996) which showed that intractable Effexor withdrawl could be alleviated using Prozac for a couple of weeks. It is a shame that more doctors are not aware of the extent to which some people get withdrawl symptoms. Much of this is probably because a majority of people do not get severe withdrawl. Hopefully, as time goes on, many more docs will become aware of the extent of the withdrawl syndrome in some people and will monitor withdrawl more closely.
>
> I hope this is of some help in describing the state of affairs in regard to Effexor withdrawl. - Cam
Posted by Janie on March 23, 2001, at 18:44:15
In reply to Re: Real or Mindset - Janie » Janie, posted by Seraphim on March 23, 2001, at 16:54:29
> Janie,
>
> 1."OR...to go one step further, the mere "anticipation" of an experience can lead the mind to play dirty tricks...oh, the power of suggestion." - Isn't that statement not very close to the definition of psychosomatic?
>
> 2."engage in Effexor bashing, as if being FORCED to swallow the "lethal" drug by some strange habit or compulsion." - Maybe I'm wrong here too,(although I doubt it) but I do believe that people taking Effexor become physically addicted to the medication, ergo... the hateful withdrawal symptoms.
>
> 3. "If Leo is representative of the majority of Effexor users, then we may all look forward to basking on the beaches of the French Riviera, enjoying our award from the class action suit."
> - I don't even know Leo and I feel the need to defend. Whether it is Effexor or any other prescription medication, we all have the right to full disclosure of ALL of the potential complications, long-term effects, and WARNINGS of the fast on-set of withdrawal and ensuing danger signs. To imply that the motivation is monetary, self-serving and rewarding in some way ... I believe is offensive, largely inaccurate and very cynical of you. This isn't like suing McDonald's because some idiot spilled coffee in his lap and thought there should have been a warning. (and no I have no intention to sue, but will try to get this information out in any way possible) People NEED TO KNOW what may happen to their body, mind and spirit on this medication. I was taking 300mg a day. Just maybe there is a difference between the severity of withdrawal symptoms at different dosages. Point being - I should have been told to always take the medication on time and to never, ever miss a dose. I wasn't! And yes I am resentful of the fact. It was a nightmare after missing two doses. It was very hard for my husband to witness, and I am very thankful to have someone there for me.
>
> 4.Just to reiterate - "I do think we should all try to go into life experiences with a positive mind-set" - I do agree with you on at least one point.
>
> P.S. - I'm sorry, but I fail to see what your debating skills have to do with a serious issue involving informing as many people as possible of information that they have the right to know, and should have already been aware of (whether everyone will experience it or not).
> It sounds as if you find this an amusing past-time. How very, very sad your life must be.
___________Seraphim
Whether an individual's side effect/effects on Effexor are clinically based, psychosomatic or unrelated is not my decision to make. I prefer to leave that up to the drug trials, hopefully carried out under the most stringent protocols. I believe we do a disservice to anyone reading these posts to imply otherwise.
You conveniently failed to address the major issue here which is we all approached our health care provider in search of medication to alleviate some problem. We all took the medication voluntarily, not knowing in advance how we might react to the drug either psychologically or physiologically. No? If at some point over time, be it day one or 5 years later, we begin to experience adverse side effects, we have choices. We can continue to take the drug and ignore our inner self, or we can call the doc and discuss alternatives. This, of course, assumes that one is not a masochist, bent on self destructive behavior. To continue on ANY elective medication to the point of debilitation, excessive weight gain, crippling disease, etc. falls into this category IMHO.
For me, personally, I made the CHOICE that the benefits of Effexor outweighed the side effects for a 9 month period. I was free to discontinue the drug at any point, so I take the responsibility for enduring the lethargy and drowsiness which I experienced.
As for the addictive potential of Effexor, I have no experience with other SRIs; therefore, I cannot address similarities of withdrawal. Yes, coming off the drug is quite inconvenient, but as I have stated several times here, manageable if done carefully and over time. Your choice.
My life is NOT very, very sad as you suggest. It's very, very rich actually...mainly because I live my life under the philosophy that, "I am cause to my own experience."
>
>
Posted by LD on March 24, 2001, at 10:05:45
In reply to Re: Real or Mindset - Janie » Seraphim, posted by Janie on March 23, 2001, at 18:44:15
To anyone who is want to get off Effexor or is in the process:
It can be done with minimal side effects! I am now 4 1/2 weeks effexor xr free and i'm finally out of the fog! I weaned VERY slowly from 225mg over the course of 3 months, then took Prozac when I reached 37.5, and am still taking the Prozac. I had w/drawel symptoms for about 3 weeks or dizziness, headaches, body aches, tired. But the past week, I feel like a new person! I feel like Effexor really put me in an unmotivational fog the past year, and i'm finally coming out of it. The w/drawel was not that horrible, I feel like I did it right with going slow and adding the Prozac.So you CAN come off this drug, just be determined to, and go slow. I am so happy to be through this!
Posted by Pamela on March 24, 2001, at 12:23:07
In reply to Re: 7 WEEKS--EFFEXOR FREE, posted by kid47 on March 20, 2001, at 11:45:39
> > Here's my update. Now entering my seventh week of no effexor. My mental state has improved remarkably sense discontinuing the drug. No depression, no anxiety, no agitation. All of which were dominating my daily life while on the drug. I still experience moderate to severe headaches and moderate fatigue. I am still experiencing what I call the "flashback syndrome" every few days or so. The joint and muscle pain is consistent, and at times, extremely painful. I have never experienced joint pain until getting off the effexor. Taking my doctors advice, I am now working with a physical therapist and nutritionists to rehab my physical body. I have absolutely no doubt that the effexor caused my severely degraded physical state. Only until getting off the drug, did I come to realize how bad off I was physically and emotionally. I have undertaken some in depth investigation about effexor. I am taking the posts on this site as well as several others and am compiling all the commonalities that are discussed. So far, what I have come up with is that between 80-90 percent of effexor users are all suffering from a wide variety of long term and permanent side effects. There are certain people on this site that try to neutralize what people are saying about this drug. However, there is absolutely no way these people can dispute, justify or explain why there are so many people complaining about the drug. I have interviewed several doctors, who have become aware of the severe problems directly related to effexor, especially the addiction aspect accompanied by the withdrawal, and no longer prescribe the drug to their patients. There is also action being taken against the drugs manufacturer. I have also notified two of the major TV network investigative reporting programs as to what is going on with effexor. They have been supplied with an abundance of information, both good and bad, about the drug and have been supplied with internet resources to see for themselves what the patients taking the drug are experiencing. Now, I know that there are Weryth-Ayerst employees that monitor and contribute posts to this site so I’m sure that what you are reading here is most likely old news to you but there are people who are suffering because of this drug. It is my goal to see that anybody who is taking this drug be made completely aware of what this drug is doing to their minds and bodies. Depression and anxiety are terrible, terrible diseases to have to live with day-in and day-out. I don’t think that those of us who have had to live through this and are having to continue to live with it now need a drug on the market whose side effects have not been fully disclosed by the company that makes it. Especially when, the condition of the majority of people who take it, seems to be inflamed by the effexor, not to mention the debilitating physical side effects of the drug.
>
>
> Hi Leo. Sorry you have had such a bad experience with FXR. I have been taking FXR XR @225 mg for about a year. I have tried alot of AD's. FXR is the first to offer any relief from my depression & anxiety. For me it has truly been a life saver. But as we all know your mileage may vary. No I do not work for any drug companies. I am an electrical engineer. There have been many drugs throughout history that have done a great deal of good for some & have harmed others. I agree that everyone should be made aware of potential risks of any med & I also believe it is a consumers responsibility to diligently check available info. My concern is that someone who potentially might be helped from FXR won't even consider the drug after reading your post. I know you are posting with the best intentions. I do believe you had a terrible experience involving FXR & you feel compelled to warn others. Maybe FXR should not be a first line AD. I don't know. What I do know is there are people like myself that were helped by FXR when all other meds failed. If I had seen your post before being offered FXR I might never have tried it. Please remeber as committed as you are to discouraging FXR's use, this also carries the responsibility of potentially depriving someone who is in a vulnerable frame of mind from exactly the right medication. Thanx for your attention.Hi "Electrical Engineer" upset about Leo's comments,
I am sorry you're so naive that you think just because a drug is helping you that is should not be discouraged due to the horrendous side effects. It too helped me a great deal, but when coming off of it, I would rather be depressed (and yes..my depression was severe). You talk about discouraging a potential user in a fragile state, Wow.... guess who also was one of those "FRAGILE" people who wasn't told about the withdrawals. You talk about the consumer's responsiblity to check it out before consuming, you obviously didn't! "Fragile state" usually does not coinside with doing alot of research. It you are that okay you probably aren't that depressed.
I hope everyone who doesn't have "COMPLETE" knowledge and disclosure regarding the side effects from this drug to definitely "NOT" take it.
I have been off of it for 5 days (after weaning down below 37.5 for 2 months). Slow enough for you? I have been in bed every since. I am so scared that I pulled myself up out of bed this morning do that research I couldn't do before and here I am hearing the same exact thing from 100's.
I am so dizzy that I cannot stand up or sit up for more than a few minutes before the world starts spinning. My nausea is so bad that I cannot eat, yet I have gained 8 lbs in the last 5 days. Explain that one. Joint pain, (healthy as a horse prior to this med) headaches (had maybe 5 headaches in my whole life prior to Effexor), flu symptoms, sleeplessness, I can't speak well, my words come out jumbled, (and I am a speaker in a 6 figure position myself, or was) it is crazy.
My opinion is exactly the same as Leo's, only customized for me. Can you spend the rest of your life in bed or on the couch should you attempt to stop taking Effexor? I strongly suggest you stay on it forever....or... if you don't believe us try going off for a few days.
Who knows how long it will last? Do you? Who is going to pay my bills, my mortgage, who will be a wife to my husband. Better yet who will give me back my life? I have many years left to live and I want to be healthy.
What more do you want to hear? You are the type of person who allows this kind of thing to go on in this society, a little selfish maybe? Open your eyes before it's too late.
Leo, let me know where you go with this media wise or even class action. I am there. I am angry.
PG
Posted by Pamela on March 24, 2001, at 12:45:36
In reply to Re: lots of success - gaining weight, posted by Frank on March 5, 2001, at 11:45:24
> I saw many posts said taking Effexor can gain weight.
> Has anyone lost weight while taking effexor? I have
> been on effexor 75mg for about one month and I
> lost about 6 lb since I took effexor. Thanks! Frank
>
> > Has anyone solved/reduced the problem of gaining weight from EFFEXOR?
> >
> > Thanks for any input! MaxYes Max, I too lost 7 lbs the first months of Effexor and I have since gained 28. i am off for 5 days and it is the worst nightmare I could have ever encountered. Good luck and God Bless
PG
Posted by willow on March 24, 2001, at 13:00:43
In reply to Re: Effexor for Life!? :-( Willow, posted by Seraphim on March 23, 2001, at 14:42:30
"Everyone deserves to be happy and optimistic again."
The effexor is helping me with severe cognitive and fatigue problems, that I've had constantly for the past five years. I'm actually starting to get part of my long term memory back after being on it for seven months. I've suffered severe bouts of depression since my early teens, 15+ years, so I would consider this a chronic condition for myself. I have no problem with taking this medication indefenitely as long as the benefits are there. A diabetic wouldn't be encouraged to forgo medical treatment, so what is the problem with this condition that I have, diagnosed "chronic fatigue syndrome?"
Seraphim I do thank you for your concern. I do believe that we do have to keep our mind open to views that may not agree with our own.
Whistling Willow
Posted by willow on March 24, 2001, at 13:09:14
In reply to Effexor for Life!?, posted by willow on March 23, 2001, at 14:22:41
"This week when I had my prescriptions refilled I enquired how long I would be taking and how long it is safe to take it. My doctor replied for life."
Cam
The benefits of this drug for myself outweigh any of the side-effects. As a pharmascist do you know of any reason why I couldn't stay on it as long as I'm experiencing a benefit from the medication?Thanks again for your help!
Willow
Posted by Pamela on March 24, 2001, at 13:22:17
In reply to Re: Real or Mindset - Janie » Seraphim, posted by Janie on March 23, 2001, at 18:44:15
> > Janie,
> >
> > 1."OR...to go one step further, the mere "anticipation" of an experience can lead the mind to play dirty tricks...oh, the power of suggestion." - Isn't that statement not very close to the definition of psychosomatic?
> >
> > 2."engage in Effexor bashing, as if being FORCED to swallow the "lethal" drug by some strange habit or compulsion." - Maybe I'm wrong here too,(although I doubt it) but I do believe that people taking Effexor become physically addicted to the medication, ergo... the hateful withdrawal symptoms.
> >
> > 3. "If Leo is representative of the majority of Effexor users, then we may all look forward to basking on the beaches of the French Riviera, enjoying our award from the class action suit."
> > - I don't even know Leo and I feel the need to defend. Whether it is Effexor or any other prescription medication, we all have the right to full disclosure of ALL of the potential complications, long-term effects, and WARNINGS of the fast on-set of withdrawal and ensuing danger signs. To imply that the motivation is monetary, self-serving and rewarding in some way ... I believe is offensive, largely inaccurate and very cynical of you. This isn't like suing McDonald's because some idiot spilled coffee in his lap and thought there should have been a warning. (and no I have no intention to sue, but will try to get this information out in any way possible) People NEED TO KNOW what may happen to their body, mind and spirit on this medication. I was taking 300mg a day. Just maybe there is a difference between the severity of withdrawal symptoms at different dosages. Point being - I should have been told to always take the medication on time and to never, ever miss a dose. I wasn't! And yes I am resentful of the fact. It was a nightmare after missing two doses. It was very hard for my husband to witness, and I am very thankful to have someone there for me.
> >
> > 4.Just to reiterate - "I do think we should all try to go into life experiences with a positive mind-set" - I do agree with you on at least one point.
> >
> > P.S. - I'm sorry, but I fail to see what your debating skills have to do with a serious issue involving informing as many people as possible of information that they have the right to know, and should have already been aware of (whether everyone will experience it or not).
> > It sounds as if you find this an amusing past-time. How very, very sad your life must be.
> ___________
>
> Seraphim
>
> Whether an individual's side effect/effects on Effexor are clinically based, psychosomatic or unrelated is not my decision to make. I prefer to leave that up to the drug trials, hopefully carried out under the most stringent protocols. I believe we do a disservice to anyone reading these posts to imply otherwise.
>
> You conveniently failed to address the major issue here which is we all approached our health care provider in search of medication to alleviate some problem. We all took the medication voluntarily, not knowing in advance how we might react to the drug either psychologically or physiologically. No? If at some point over time, be it day one or 5 years later, we begin to experience adverse side effects, we have choices. We can continue to take the drug and ignore our inner self, or we can call the doc and discuss alternatives. This, of course, assumes that one is not a masochist, bent on self destructive behavior. To continue on ANY elective medication to the point of debilitation, excessive weight gain, crippling disease, etc. falls into this category IMHO.
>
> For me, personally, I made the CHOICE that the benefits of Effexor outweighed the side effects for a 9 month period. I was free to discontinue the drug at any point, so I take the responsibility for enduring the lethargy and drowsiness which I experienced.
>
> As for the addictive potential of Effexor, I have no experience with other SRIs; therefore, I cannot address similarities of withdrawal. Yes, coming off the drug is quite inconvenient, but as I have stated several times here, manageable if done carefully and over time. Your choice.
>
> My life is NOT very, very sad as you suggest. It's very, very rich actually...mainly because I live my life under the philosophy that, "I am cause to my own experience."
>
> >
> >Dear Janie,
I too am an Effexor basher after being confined to bed for the past 5 days after weaning off of 75 mg per day pretty low dose wouldn't you say?
I am here on this chat because of desperation and am sicker than a dog, I would say that is pretty good/strong mind set wouldn't you?
Now for the mind set/psychosomatic. How can you be psychosomatic if you have no idea what the side effects are. I went to the emergency room thinking I was dying.... the second day off of Effexor.
I had no idea it was that and had no idea what the "STATED" side effects were. Funny how I was experiencing most all of the above. Maybe I am a psychic/psychosomatic!
Do you realize how ridiculous you sound and to admit that you are an RN ta boot! Maybe you need more Effexor, plus Prozac, plus whatever! I have no need to share my credientials to speak the truth about "MY EXPERIENCE", nor have I seen anyone having that need, you seem to be the only one. Nor does anyone have to defend their "very very rich life" as you seem to feel the need to. You sound like you need some validation. We are only looking for support from one another with the same cause. Yes we are angry ad have every right to be. As you say freedom of choice, anger is a healthy emotion if used in a effective healing manner. I feel better in the hour I have hbeen online hearing the same stories over and over, only because I thought I was losing my mind...or dying.
You suffer from the medical "God" syndrome and I will pray for you. (I dated lots of doctors in my 20's-30's, the signs are all to familiar). Let's take drugs they are so good for you!! Gee I bet you wouldn't have a millioneth response of side effects from any supplement "EVER" put on the market (COMBINED). Yet the AMA AND FDA portray false definition all day long.
People are miserable, people are sick, what more do you need than thousands of people voicing the exact same symptoms adn sying out for help. This is not a debate, it is REAL to all of us experiencing it! DUH!
Yes, we have freedom of choice, but how many "SEVERELY" depressed people do you know that want to get out of bed, yet alone do research on a drugs that we rely on our physicians to be HONEST! What a concept! By the time you get to the frame of mind to do the research, if you even know that there is side effects from withdrawing it is tooooooo late. Sure you can quit, but you still experience exactly what we are talking about. Even writing this I feel as though I am talking to a 3 yr old.
And you wonder why you are getting such hostile response, I'll tell you. IGNORANCE!!! Grow up and shed the tunnel vision. It's a real world out there and there is alot more happening out there than you could ever imagine.
God Bless and I'll continue to pray for your awareness,
PG
Posted by Pamela on March 24, 2001, at 13:31:43
In reply to Re: Effexor for Life! Cam?, posted by willow on March 24, 2001, at 13:09:14
> "This week when I had my prescriptions refilled I enquired how long I would be taking and how long it is safe to take it. My doctor replied for life."
>
> Cam
> The benefits of this drug for myself outweigh any of the side-effects. As a pharmascist do you know of any reason why I couldn't stay on it as long as I'm experiencing a benefit from the medication?
>
> Thanks again for your help!
> WillowDear Willow,
Crazy though this may sound, I pray you are on Effexor for life. God help you if you ever have to come off. It has been the biggest nightmare of my life and believe me I have had a few nightmares in my 40 yrs.
Most everyone keeps discussing the side effects while "TAKING" the drug, I had none. It is the withdrawal that will kill you or wished you were dead.
I will pray for you,
God Bless,
PG
Posted by Pamela on March 24, 2001, at 13:41:25
In reply to Re: 7 weeks effexor free, posted by Seraphim on March 23, 2001, at 14:07:39
> Leo,
>
> Please, PLEASE, keep updating on your progress. I have experienced almost all of the bad side effects and the worst of the withdrawal symptoms. I need encouragement to continue cutting back my dosage. I didn't realize I was going through withdrawals from effexor when I either took my medicine late or forgot all together,until I had truly terrifying experiences halfway through the second day without effexor. Looking back, these same symptoms would start within three hours of a missed dose, though. My doctor never told me how important it was not to miss a dose or take it late. I thought I still had a refill of my prescription left; I was wrong, and it was the weekend. I'll spare the details, but it was so awful. I got so sick, shaky, feelings like I was moving when I wasn't, etc...Two days later I found these postings. Now two weeks later, I'm down to 150mg from 300mg a day. The withdrawal symptoms have been horrid, but I can't wait to get it out of my system. I have lost 12 pounds. The only high point. Please keep in touch. Should Janie happen to read this:
> IT IS NOT JUST A MINDSET! I thank God I found these postings when I did.Praise God Seraphim,
I couldn't agree with you more, I am only 5 days into "NO" Effexor after a 2 month weaning down process. It didn't matter because once I stopped totally 5 days ago the symptoms got so bad I have been in bed since along with a trip to emergency room to find out what as going on with me, I thought I was dying. I had no idea it was the Effexor. I met alot of nurses and doctors in denial! "Well they shouldn't be this bad!! They'll be gone in a few days! etc etc.
I only pulled myself up this morning to try and find some help, I acutally found all of you via God, because I know nothing about chat rooms.
I wrote to Janie too, she truly needs a reality check.
Leo, got me started, so thanks to him and all of you this morning, I don't feel like, the only one going through this.
I'll pray for your cleansed system soon and with "NO" more side effects!!!!!
Sincerely,
Pamela
Posted by Janie on March 24, 2001, at 14:25:28
In reply to Re: Real or Mindset - Janie, posted by Pamela on March 24, 2001, at 13:22:17
Dear PG
I am not interested in your prayers, but Thanks. I also don't post here to win friends, but to influence people. I regret that you've had a bad experience over the past 5 days; many of my Chemo patients can identify. But then, of course, YOU elected to take your drugs, and have the option of discontinuance. WHO promised YOU a Rose Garden in life and what MD in the World could predict the millions of potential, highly personalized side effects from mood and mind altering drugs being utilized in ages from teens to elderly? We aren't talking about the liver or the heart...the BRAIN and its fuctions are rather complex...you know. If YOU ELECT to alter YOUR MOOD and YOUR EMOTIONS, then who else can be expected to assess the positive or negative results of YOUR decision? If one reads your rantings, it becomes quite clear who the 3 year old is here. I do believe I've struck a nerve. You're over the edge, dear girl. I suggest the next step for you is Haldol, and lots of it. BTW, don't forget to take the companion anticholinergic...talk about some baddddd side effects.
Pop an anti-victim pill and chill.
Nurse Janie
(ahem) Just where are those "thousands" of suffering Effexor-drugged lambs,innocently led to slaugher? Hopefully, this site does not constitute your total sample of sheep who just follow the flock. As a matter of fact, you are one of the few posters here who appears
to have "lost their way."
Posted by Janie on March 24, 2001, at 15:00:30
In reply to Re: 7 weeks effexor free, posted by Pamela on March 24, 2001, at 13:41:25
Just a suggestion for all who may be withdrawing from Effexor. If you feel like crap, just take whatever dosage will curtail the side effects, and go down from there. I, personally, cut the dosage by hours...from every 24 to 36 to 48 and so on. My baseline was 37.5 mg. If I got rocky a couple of days without anything, I just popped another pill. BINGO!! The next cycle, it was 3 days later, the next 4 days later....It just ain't necessary to suffer (unless you enjoy it).
Posted by Cam W. on March 24, 2001, at 15:05:41
In reply to Re: Effexor for Life! Cam?, posted by willow on March 24, 2001, at 13:09:14
Willow - Although Effexor has been around less than ten years, I have seen no long term adverse effects while still taking th med. There is a risk of poop-out, but I doubt that it is as common as with the SSRIs.
Hope this helps - Cam
> "This week when I had my prescriptions refilled I enquired how long I would be taking and how long it is safe to take it. My doctor replied for life."
>
> Cam
> The benefits of this drug for myself outweigh any of the side-effects. As a pharmascist do you know of any reason why I couldn't stay on it as long as I'm experiencing a benefit from the medication?
>
> Thanks again for your help!
> Willow
Posted by Janie on March 24, 2001, at 15:46:47
In reply to On a More Constructive Note..., posted by Janie on March 24, 2001, at 15:00:30
> Just a suggestion for all who may be withdrawing from Effexor. If you feel like crap, just take whatever dosage will curtail the side effects, and go down from there. I, personally, cut the dosage by hours...from every 24 to 36 to 48 and so on. My baseline was 37.5 mg. If I got rocky a couple of days without anything, I just popped another pill. BINGO!! The next cycle, it was 3 days later, the next 4 days later....It just ain't necessary to suffer (unless you enjoy it).
P.S. I might also mention (which most of you probably know) that Effexor comes in 25mg tablets that are not time release and are scored. Soooooo, if you have difficulty cutting your XR in half because of the limited dosages available in XR form, you have the option of "embellishing" your XR with a little regular Effexor in 25mg, 12.5mg increments. If you have a REALLY sharp knife..........
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 24, 2001, at 15:50:26
In reply to Re: Real or Mindset - Janie, posted by Janie on March 24, 2001, at 14:25:28
> I am sorry you're so naïve...
> You are the type of person who allows this kind of thing to go on in this society, a little selfish maybe? Open your eyes before it's too late.
> I am angry.
> Do you realize how ridiculous you sound...
> we are angry ad have every right to be.
> You suffer from the medical "God" syndrome...
> And you wonder why you are getting such hostile response, I'll tell you. IGNORANCE!!! Grow up and shed the tunnel vision.
--------
> I am not interested in your prayers, but Thanks. I also don't post here to win friends, but to influence people.
Friends are sometimes the people best able to influence someone...
> YOU elected to take your drugs, and have the option of discontinuance. WHO promised YOU a Rose Garden in life
> If one reads your rantings, it becomes quite clear who the 3 year old is here. I do believe I've struck a nerve. You're over the edge, dear girl. I suggest the next step for you is Haldol, and lots of it.
> Pop an anti-victim pill and chill.
The idea here is support and education. Please keep negative opinions of others, however justified you feel they may be, to yourself.
You may have every right to be angry, but freedom of choice on these boards is limited. Expressing it may be helpful for you, but destructive for these communities.
If you think you've struck a nerve, better not to keep pushing.
Please be civil here. Otherwise, I'll need to block you from posting. Thanks,
Bob
PS: Follow-ups, if any, regarding this should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Posted by Leo on March 24, 2001, at 16:27:24
In reply to Re: Effexor for Life! Cam?, posted by Pamela on March 24, 2001, at 13:31:43
Well………………..this certainly has been a very interesting forum over the last 72 hours. I hope that of us who have been fortunate enough to overcome our depression haven’t relapsed and that those of you that are still struggling with the disease haven’t sunken deeper into the abyss while reading these posts.
I have spent the last twenty years as a freelance investigative research professional. I have researched and prepared documents on an enormous variety of subject matter, under contractual agreements, for various agency’s, organizations, corporations and privately funded “think tanks” from around the world. These assignments have lasted anywhere from 6 hours to 6 years, depending on the subject matter. I have undertaken, on my own, and because of my personal experience as it is related to effexor, some investigative research on the drug. Now, when one investigates a subject, it is broken down into two categories: objective and subjective. The objective category deals strictly with the facts that surround the subject matter. The subjective category deals solely with the emotions and opinions that surround the subject matter. 99.9% of any subject is shrouded in emotion and opinion. Focusing emotions and opinions along with personal attacks on a subject, without a doubt, obscure the facts and are extremely counter-productive. However, no matter how one goes about debating the subject or issue at hand, you CAN NEVER DISPUTE THE FACTS.
I’m sure that Dr. Bob established this website to for people to read shared experiences. This is an excellent therapy practice. Mainly because of the support that it offers all of us in one form or another. People come to this website seeking answers, support and help, not to be attacked. They are coming to this website and the others out there because they, like I was, are FRIGHTENED by what they are experiencing. These people, like I was, are suffering from physical and emotional withdrawal so intense, that they are wondering if they are going to make it through the day without some catastrophic event occurring that is going to harm them. No one, including his or her doctor, has an answer. The med supplements that are supplied with the medication DO NOT address the withdrawal associated with effexor, do not warn if its dependency and vaguely address its side effects. Hence, an extremely FRIGHTENING experience for those, like me, who have never been there before. During the initial shock of withdrawal from this drug and well after its being discontinued, there are hundreds of people that are continuing to report experiences with one or more of the side effects from this drug. Why is it that Wyeth-Ayerst has yet to come forward with ALL the facts associated with this drug? Trust me when I tell you that they are well aware of what we know. There are FACTS in experience. No matter how mild or extreme. Those of us that have gotten off this drug and have related our experiences are Wyeth-Ayersts “post trial” studies. When you eliminate the emotions and opinions in these and the hundreds of other sites on the internet dedicated solely to this drug, you find a huge thread of commonalties that allows one to deal solely with facts. Failure of the developer and manufacturer of this drug to FULLY disclose ALL the facts about effexor only forces them to dig a deeper, darker hole for themselves. One that they may very well end up being buried in. This lack of disclosure is my primary concern. All the facts need to be disclosed to a potential user of the drug so they are not broad-sided by its effects. This so they can make an educated decision before they going forward with using the drug. If they know what to expect, then the fear will be lessoned.
Finally, I think all of us will agree that this is an excellent site that offers information and support. Personal attacks on each other are extremely counter-productive and have no positive outcome. I will continue to post my “post” effexor experiences. I feel that this is important and I think that all of us should. We should all be respectful and civil towards the personal experiences related here and try to stay as objective as we can. We all share commonalities in these experiences. We should be helping and supporting each other through our experiences, good or bad, not attacking. I am here to offer whatever help I can, especially with those of you how are going through the withdrawal from the drug. This site helped me survive an extremely frightening and unexpected experience. Now, go do something that will make you laugh!!! It's good medicine. Thank you Dr. Bob.Regards,
Leo
Posted by Pamela on March 24, 2001, at 18:20:46
In reply to Re: please be civil » Pamela, Janie, posted by Dr. Bob on March 24, 2001, at 15:50:26
> > I am sorry you're so naïve...
>
> > You are the type of person who allows this kind of thing to go on in this society, a little selfish maybe? Open your eyes before it's too late.
>
> > I am angry.
>
> > Do you realize how ridiculous you sound...
>
> > we are angry ad have every right to be.
>
> > You suffer from the medical "God" syndrome...
>
> > And you wonder why you are getting such hostile response, I'll tell you. IGNORANCE!!! Grow up and shed the tunnel vision.
>
> --------
>
> > I am not interested in your prayers, but Thanks. I also don't post here to win friends, but to influence people.
>
> Friends are sometimes the people best able to influence someone...
>
> > YOU elected to take your drugs, and have the option of discontinuance. WHO promised YOU a Rose Garden in life
>
> > If one reads your rantings, it becomes quite clear who the 3 year old is here. I do believe I've struck a nerve. You're over the edge, dear girl. I suggest the next step for you is Haldol, and lots of it.
>
> > Pop an anti-victim pill and chill.
>
> The idea here is support and education. Please keep negative opinions of others, however justified you feel they may be, to yourself.
>
> You may have every right to be angry, but freedom of choice on these boards is limited. Expressing it may be helpful for you, but destructive for these communities.
>
> If you think you've struck a nerve, better not to keep pushing.
>
> Please be civil here. Otherwise, I'll need to block you from posting. Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
> PS: Follow-ups, if any, regarding this should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.Dear Dr. Bob,
You are absolutely correct and I apologize, once again yet another side effect popping out. ANGER and AGRESSION. I am very grateful for your site
and I will not respond to a Janie or anyone else in this fashion again. It's really my style anyway.
Thanks for the scolding and thanks to Leo as well.
Sincerely,
Pamela
Posted by Janie on March 24, 2001, at 19:29:09
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by Pamela on March 24, 2001, at 18:20:46
>
> Dear Dr. Bob,
> You are absolutely correct and I apologize, once again yet another side effect popping out. ANGER and AGRESSION. I am very grateful for your site
> and I will not respond to a Janie or anyone else in this fashion again. It's really my style anyway.
> Thanks for the scolding and thanks to Leo as well.
> Sincerely,
> Pamela
__________With all due respect to Dr. Bob and Pamela,
I also agree that things did get a BIT out of hand. I fell onto this site by accident one day while doing some research on Effexor. It appeared to be an interesting discussion of the drug, and I had the initial impression that posters were not emotionally skewed, either pro or con toward its usage. Some things in life we learn the hard way.I was placed on Effexor in June of 2000 secondary to "hitting the wall' after spending 10 years in one of America's most violent and busy emergency rooms, working behind metal detectors and beside armed security guards. My problem was not depression, but anxiety resulting from day-after-day attempts to care for as many as 120-130 patients simultaneouly with nursing shortages and life and death on the line about every 45 minutes. I do believe I live in the real world; the real world is my problem.
I have made a sincere effort in my posts to clarify my position on Effexor usage and withdrawal, the patient's right to refuse further treatment secondary to adverse side effects, as well as the patient's responsibility to take charge of his/her life. Hopefully, some of my remarks have been useful and informative.
And now for an evening of J.S. Bach...the greatest Elixir of all.
PEACE and Be Well
Janie
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