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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Daveman on March 15, 2001, at 23:14:38
Okay, here's a variation on a theme we've seen here lots of times, ways to counter insomnia caused by AD's. My question: Is 7.5 mg. of Remeron more sedating than 15 mg.? I ask because I've been taking Remeron 15 mg. for about a month for sleep, and I seem to be developing some tolerance to its sedative effects (still helps some but not nearly as much as I'd like; of late I've begun sleeping in two-hour bursts and never very deeply). The thought occurs to me because of Remeron's "paradoxic" effect of being less sedating at higher doses (and yes I know that's not true for everyone:))
I previously tried Trazodone as a sleep aid, but had to stop due to heart palpitations, a nasty little side effect that caused a severe panic attack (my father died of a heart attack). Also bought Dramamine, Unisom, Valerian and chamomile tea to try; anything to avoid going back to the benzos (sigh).
Dave
Posted by JohnL on March 16, 2001, at 5:07:26
In reply to AD insomnia:Remeron-7.5mg. more sedating than 15?, posted by Daveman on March 15, 2001, at 23:14:38
> Okay, here's a variation on a theme we've seen here lots of times, ways to counter insomnia caused by AD's. My question: Is 7.5 mg. of Remeron more sedating than 15 mg.? I ask because I've been taking Remeron 15 mg. for about a month for sleep, and I seem to be developing some tolerance to its sedative effects (still helps some but not nearly as much as I'd like; of late I've begun sleeping in two-hour bursts and never very deeply). The thought occurs to me because of Remeron's "paradoxic" effect of being less sedating at higher doses (and yes I know that's not true for everyone:))
>
> I previously tried Trazodone as a sleep aid, but had to stop due to heart palpitations, a nasty little side effect that caused a severe panic attack (my father died of a heart attack). Also bought Dramamine, Unisom, Valerian and chamomile tea to try; anything to avoid going back to the benzos (sigh).
>
> Dave
Hi Dave,
I definitely found 7.5mg to be more sedating than 15mg. I was on it for a long time. It never helped my depression much, but it sure put me to sleep fast at bedtime. The higher 15mg dose however actually made my sleep worse. I fell asleep fast but slept lousy.I have found 5mg Zyprexa to be far superior as a sleep med, as well as a mood brightener. I like it tons better than Remeron. I don't fall asleep as fast, but my sleep quality is very much improved over Remeron. And my mood is far superior with Zyprexa.
John
Posted by SalArmy4me on March 16, 2001, at 10:02:10
In reply to Re: AD insomnia:Remeron-7.5mg. more sedating than 15?, posted by JohnL on March 16, 2001, at 5:07:26
I recommend Zyprexa too, and here's why:
Zyprexa has been proven to have effects on serotonin, thus it can augment antidepressants. Another study confirmed that last year. Psychiatrists have been using it off-label for OCD, too.
Here are the advantages of Zyprexa, as opposed to most antipsychotics and antidepressants:
--It will calm you down all day; when I took it, I thought it was better than a benzo.
--It has no anticholinergic effects.
--It has no sexual side-effects .
--It will definitely help you sleep.
--Zyprexa is convienient because it is taken only once at night.
--It is covered by insurance, generally.
--It augments antidepressants.
--Despite what rumors go around, Tardive Dyskenisia on Zyprexa is rare.I took 10 mg of it at bedtime, and I had no drowsiness in the morning. I didn't have any weight gain either.
Posted by Daveman on March 17, 2001, at 13:07:58
In reply to Re: AD insomnia:Remeron-7.5mg. more sedating than 15?, posted by SalArmy4me on March 16, 2001, at 10:02:10
Thanks,John and Sal. I see my doc Monday and will ask about Zyprexa. (I love this Board; it is truly great to have a forum for exchanging ideas about meds without any "anti-med" hysteria:))
Dave
> I recommend Zyprexa too, and here's why:
>
> Zyprexa has been proven to have effects on serotonin, thus it can augment antidepressants. Another study confirmed that last year. Psychiatrists have been using it off-label for OCD, too.
>
> Here are the advantages of Zyprexa, as opposed to most antipsychotics and antidepressants:
>
> --It will calm you down all day; when I took it, I thought it was better than a benzo.
> --It has no anticholinergic effects.
> --It has no sexual side-effects .
> --It will definitely help you sleep.
> --Zyprexa is convienient because it is taken only once at night.
> --It is covered by insurance, generally.
> --It augments antidepressants.
> --Despite what rumors go around, Tardive Dyskenisia on Zyprexa is rare.
>
> I took 10 mg of it at bedtime, and I had no drowsiness in the morning. I didn't have any weight gain either.
Posted by Daveman on March 19, 2001, at 19:42:35
In reply to Re: AD insomnia:Remeron-7.5mg. more sedating than 15?, posted by JohnL on March 16, 2001, at 5:07:26
Well, my docs are not yet convinced that the Remeron has pooped out for sleep, so they want me to stay on it at least until my next appointment Thursday. Until then, they want me to keep trying with Remeron, and if that doesn't work to supplement temporarily with Ambien or Klonopin. I thought the idea was to keep me off that stuff! Docs are afraid of side effects with other options (zyprexa weight gain; vistaril lethargy; tricyclic heart problems...) Oh well, guess I can survive until Thursday, maybe try some OTC stuff (unisom) or herb stuff (valerian, kava, etc). Hasn't worked before, but......
Anybody else got any ideas?
Dave
> > Okay, here's a variation on a theme we've seen here lots of times, ways to counter insomnia caused by AD's. My question: Is 7.5 mg. of Remeron more sedating than 15 mg.? I ask because I've been taking Remeron 15 mg. for about a month for sleep, and I seem to be developing some tolerance to its sedative effects (still helps some but not nearly as much as I'd like; of late I've begun sleeping in two-hour bursts and never very deeply). The thought occurs to me because of Remeron's "paradoxic" effect of being less sedating at higher doses (and yes I know that's not true for everyone:))
> >
> > I previously tried Trazodone as a sleep aid, but had to stop due to heart palpitations, a nasty little side effect that caused a severe panic attack (my father died of a heart attack). Also bought Dramamine, Unisom, Valerian and chamomile tea to try; anything to avoid going back to the benzos (sigh).
> >
> > Dave
>
>
> Hi Dave,
> I definitely found 7.5mg to be more sedating than 15mg. I was on it for a long time. It never helped my depression much, but it sure put me to sleep fast at bedtime. The higher 15mg dose however actually made my sleep worse. I fell asleep fast but slept lousy.
>
> I have found 5mg Zyprexa to be far superior as a sleep med, as well as a mood brightener. I like it tons better than Remeron. I don't fall asleep as fast, but my sleep quality is very much improved over Remeron. And my mood is far superior with Zyprexa.
> John
Posted by KarenB on March 20, 2001, at 14:32:22
In reply to Docs want me to wait !?!?! Let THEM try to sleep, posted by Daveman on March 19, 2001, at 19:42:35
Daveman,
Don't you just love that..."Wait and see how you feel?" That's what Dr. Bonehead said just before I fired him a few months ago. Now, I have a real doctor.
Try 3mg Melatonin and a glass of Merlot. Works for me. You can find it in any vitamin section, even in the grocery stores. Sure beats the memory loss from the Ambien, too.
Karen
Posted by Daveman on March 20, 2001, at 20:29:45
In reply to Re: Docs want me to wait !?!?! Let THEM try to sleep, posted by KarenB on March 20, 2001, at 14:32:22
Hi Karen:
I've tried all the "natural" stuff- melatonin, chamomile tea, valerian root, kava. It seemed to help when I was mildly tense, but now that I'm under medication for depression it just doesn't seem strong enough. What I cannot figure out is whether my screwed-up sleep cycle is (1) depression/anxiety related (though the Celexa seems to be helping control that stuff); or (2) a side effect of the Celexa (the frustration of solving one problem and creating another); or (3) a result of having thrown chemicals at my brain to help with sleep- first Xanax, then klonopin, then Remeron- so now I can't sleep without them (great, only way to solve that is to go sleepless until my brain gets back to "normal"); or (4) some combination thereof. Oh well, at least I'm not rolling around on the living room floor crying my eyes out, too anxious to work or leave the house anymore, so I guess that's progress, right?:)
Dave
> Daveman,
>
> Don't you just love that..."Wait and see how you feel?" That's what Dr. Bonehead said just before I fired him a few months ago. Now, I have a real doctor.
>
> Try 3mg Melatonin and a glass of Merlot. Works for me. You can find it in any vitamin section, even in the grocery stores. Sure beats the memory loss from the Ambien, too.
>
> Karen
Posted by Lorraine on March 20, 2001, at 20:54:09
In reply to Re: Docs want me to wait !?!?! Let THEM try to sleep » KarenB, posted by Daveman on March 20, 2001, at 20:29:45
Have you tried GABA? 1000 mg at bedtime. Can increase this to 1500 if that doesn't work.
Posted by Daveman on March 21, 2001, at 0:12:35
In reply to Re: Docs want me to wait !?!?! Let THEM try to sleep, posted by Lorraine on March 20, 2001, at 20:54:09
Hi Lorraine,
I have tried GABA, but never more than 600 mg. Maybe I'll try upping it tonight and see what happens, thanks for the suggestion!
Dave
> Have you tried GABA? 1000 mg at bedtime. Can increase this to 1500 if that doesn't work.
This is the end of the thread.
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