![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 478 to 502 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by CRTF on February 18, 2001, at 11:30:06
In reply to Re: Does Prozac cause weight gain?, posted by Joy on February 18, 2001, at 8:06:12
Posted by maxx on February 18, 2001, at 16:19:44
In reply to Re: lots of success on effexor, posted by CrystalThacker on February 16, 2001, at 14:12:58
Has anyone solved/reduced the problem of gaining weight from EFFEXOR?
Thanks for any input! Max
Posted by CrystalThacker on February 18, 2001, at 18:40:02
In reply to Re: lots of success - gaining weight, posted by maxx on February 18, 2001, at 16:19:44
> Has anyone solved/reduced the problem of gaining weight from EFFEXOR?
>
> Thanks for any input! MaxNo I havent gained any weight while on effexor been on it for 2 years. I gained weught taking paxil though cant get that off.
Posted by Shell on February 19, 2001, at 2:04:54
In reply to Does Prozac cause weight gain?, posted by CRTF on February 18, 2001, at 2:30:50
>
> Can it cause weight gain in adolescent teen girls? How long does it take for the weight gain to start? What about a smaller dosage? Please help!I lost about 15-20 pounds on Prozac, which is a lot for me (size 10-12 to size 6). I wasn't an adolescent girl, however; I was a 28-year-old woman. I think it worked by reducing cravings, especially for carbohydrates and by helping me be more motivated to exercise. I still had to diet, but it was just easier to stick to it.
Shell
Posted by NMichele on February 19, 2001, at 7:34:36
In reply to Re: withdrawal, posted by NMichele on January 25, 2001, at 9:48:44
> > Has anybody lost any of the weight they gained from Effexor XR. I gained about 35lbs over the last 2 1/2 years and am now beginning the journey of losing all of this extra weight. If you have, how long did it take and what did you have to do?? Any encouragement would be wonderful!! Thanks - NMichele
Posted by Jenny S on February 19, 2001, at 10:05:59
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Hello, my name is Jenny, I am 25, and I have suffered from Manic Depression/ Anxiety/ Obsessive Compulsive disorder since childhood. Growing up I never took any anti-depressants for fear of side effects. But as of April 2000, my new MD (I moved to the NY area) decided to try Buspar, and a few others, which didn't help at all. Then she decided to try the Effexor. The only night I took the Effexor, I had the most horrible side effects. My whole body was trembling, I had what felt like a neverending panic attack that night, strange chest sensations, it was so scary! Anyway, the next morning the bad side effects started to subside, with the exception of the strange chest sensations, which till this day, almost a year later has never gone away. It feels somewhat like the feeling when you go down a rollercoaster mixed with trembling in my chest. Sometimes it subsides, but never has it gone away. Some days feel like the night I took the Effexor, as strong as ever. My dr. is trying to put it off as just some new stress thing I am getting, but I know otherwise. It started that night, and hasn't gone away since. I am so scared, I don't know what to do. If anyone has experienced this and has any helpful advise please email me at axesangl@aol.com. I appreciate any support or advise someone can give me. I STRONGLY do not reccommend this drug to anyone.
Posted by Lorraine on February 19, 2001, at 11:09:21
In reply to Has ANYBODY out there lost their Effexor weight ??, posted by NMichele on February 19, 2001, at 7:34:36
> > > Has anybody lost any of the weight they gained from Effexor XR. I gained about 35lbs over the last 2 1/2 years and am now beginning the journey of losing all of this extra weight. If you have, how long did it take and what did you have to do?? Any encouragement would be wonderful!! Thanks - NMichele
I lost my 35 lbs by going off Effexor and doing a low carb diet. I think that Effexor caused me to crave carbs. I'm back on Effexor at a very low dose augmented with amphetamine. I have adopted low carb as a way of life. I'm hoping the low dose, the amphetamine and the low carb will help me maintain my weight. Good luck! Low carb really works, but for me it took a while to kick in (about 4 weeks with no weight loss). Then I lost the weight in about 5 months.
Posted by Lorraine on February 19, 2001, at 11:11:56
In reply to Terrible Side Effects on Effexor, help!, posted by Jenny S on February 19, 2001, at 10:05:59
> Hello, my name is Jenny, I am 25, and I have suffered from Manic Depression/ Anxiety/ Obsessive Compulsive disorder since childhood. Growing up I never took any anti-depressants for fear of side effects. But as of April 2000, my new MD (I moved to the NY area) decided to try Buspar, and a few others, which didn't help at all. Then she decided to try the Effexor. The only night I took the Effexor, I had the most horrible side effects. My whole body was trembling, I had what felt like a neverending panic attack that night, strange chest sensations, it was so scary! Anyway, the next morning the bad side effects started to subside, with the exception of the strange chest sensations, which till this day, almost a year later has never gone away. It feels somewhat like the feeling when you go down a rollercoaster mixed with trembling in my chest. Sometimes it subsides, but never has it gone away. Some days feel like the night I took the Effexor, as strong as ever. My dr. is trying to put it off as just some new stress thing I am getting, but I know otherwise. It started that night, and hasn't gone away since. I am so scared, I don't know what to do. If anyone has experienced this and has any helpful advise please email me at axesangl@aol.com. I appreciate any support or advise someone can give me. I STRONGLY do not reccommend this drug to anyone.
Jenny, It sounds like anxiety to me. Maybe you need to augment your med with something.
Posted by pocahontas on February 19, 2001, at 12:51:28
In reply to Re: withdrawal, posted by Amy on May 4, 2000, at 19:52:15
I have been taking a 75mg dose of effexor for about 7 months
and my side effects were getting worse and worse,
so my doctor and I decided I needed to come off.
He suggested taking a pill every other day until my
prescription was gone, and then gave me samples
which included a weeks worth of 37.5 mg capsules.
I couldn't even make the first 48 hours without
horrible withdrawals, so I went to plan B...start with
the 37.5 mg dose each day. That was fine, but they
are gone and I am on day 4 and I am so nauseated that
I can't stand it, but it does seem to be a little
like morning sickness in the fact if you eat a little
you aren't quite so sick. The fuzzy headedness, and
strange dizziness don't subside though. I can't
sleep at night, and the tears just flow for no real
reason, but when I do go to sleep finally
I can sleep for 12 hours at a time. I have been trying
do follow a low carb diet to get some of the weight
off that I have put on, and when I try to exercise
I just can't move my head from side to side without
getting sick. From what I have read, these are pretty
standard withdrawals. I do not want to take more
of this stuff with the fear that I will never be able
to get away from it without more side effects, but
I don't know if I can last another day. I do have
a few more pills and am considering cutting them up and just eating
crumbs to get by, but will I ever be able to just do without
them? How long do I have to endure this before it
stops?
Posted by Mary E. on February 19, 2001, at 15:50:12
In reply to Re: effexor xr and side effects, posted by Judy on April 23, 2000, at 22:43:54
> Sweating - is anyone having problems with excessive sweating from taking Effexor, 75 mg, the time released version? I can't decide if it's the med or menopause......
How is your sweating problem. I am on the same med and amt, and in menopause. I have been taking this for 2 months. I did not have a problem with sweating untill a few days ago. Then I realized that it was the time for my menstrual cycle. 6 days before I would have had my cycle, I began to sweat terribly. Then I had some pain in my ovaries. The next day, I was very weepy, shaky, restless, feeling panicky, sweating...lots of pms symptoms exaggerated. The pharmacist said I should talk to my dr and have my amt increased. I couldn't wait that long, so I took 2 midol and the symptoms went away. I hope you are doing better....good luck...keep asking your dr about it...Mary E.
Posted by leckroj on February 19, 2001, at 16:37:36
In reply to Re: effexor xr and side effects, posted by Mary E. on February 19, 2001, at 15:50:12
> > Sweating - is anyone having problems with excessive sweating from taking Effexor, 75 mg, the time released version? I can't decide if it's the med or menopause......
>
> How is your sweating problem. I am on the same med and amt, and in menopause. I have been taking this for 2 months. I did not have a problem with sweating untill a few days ago. Then I realized that it was the time for my menstrual cycle. 6 days before I would have had my cycle, I began to sweat terribly. Then I had some pain in my ovaries. The next day, I was very weepy, shaky, restless, feeling panicky, sweating...lots of pms symptoms exaggerated. The pharmacist said I should talk to my dr and have my amt increased. I couldn't wait that long, so I took 2 midol and the symptoms went away. I hope you are doing better....good luck...keep asking your dr about it...Mary E.Mary E--Hi. I'm just getting back to the site; I've been too busy to communicate...I, too, am menopausal--have been for 12 years. I've been on Effexor XR, 300 mg. for ~2 yrs. One of my main complaints with it is sweating! Everybody in my office is freezing, and I'd like to take some clothes off...However, I was wondering about your other symptoms: how long have you been menopausal? It doesn't sound as tho' you're sure you're there, yet. If you think you are, go to the doctor, and ask for an FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) test. If FSH is high--above some level I don't remember off-hand, you probably are. And you, yourself, wonder if the symptoms be related to this rather than a low Effexor dose. You may want to start hormone replacement therapy. This does wonders for lots of menopausal women. And it's good prevention for thinning of the bones (osteoporosis). Just ideas for you to think about...My best to you. Jan
Posted by crylt73 on February 19, 2001, at 17:06:23
In reply to Re: effexor xr and side effects, posted by Mary E. on February 19, 2001, at 15:50:12
> > Sweating - is anyone having problems with excessive sweating from taking Effexor, 75 mg, the time released version? I can't decide if it's the med or menopause......
>
> How is your sweating problem. I am on the same med and amt, and in menopause. I have been taking this for 2 months. I did not have a problem with sweating untill a few days ago. Then I realized that it was the time for my menstrual cycle. 6 days before I would have had my cycle, I began to sweat terribly. Then I had some pain in my ovaries. The next day, I was very weepy, shaky, restless, feeling panicky, sweating...lots of pms symptoms exaggerated. The pharmacist said I should talk to my dr and have my amt increased. I couldn't wait that long, so I took 2 midol and the symptoms went away. I hope you are doing better....good luck...keep asking your dr about it...Mary E.Hi I have been on effexor xr for two years now and I have alot of problems with sweating and I am not going through the change, I am only 27.
Posted by JL on February 20, 2001, at 2:27:48
In reply to Withdrawal From Effexor, posted by JL on January 26, 2001, at 19:18:27
Well, I've been off the damn Effexor for nearly a month now. The dizziness has FINALLY stopped but I'm still rather "light-headed" and the naseua continues. I will NEVER go on this horrible drug again.
I've had some very serious problems during the past two weeks with EXTREME depression and anxiety. I'm lethargic and have absolutely no motivation to do anything. This is AWFUL. While my doc put me on Zerzone, I don't think it's working. Are the problems with the depression, anxiety, etc. related to going off Effexor? If so, how long with this last? When, if ever, will the Serzone kick in? My doc also told me that she normally DOESN'T prescribe Effexor due to all of the problems with it (I was placed on it by a quack I fired two years ago who was nothing more than a medication dispenser) - she has said that ALL of her patients have the same problems getting off of it that I have had.
Posted by Will on February 20, 2001, at 16:58:46
In reply to Re: From Wellbutrin for Dep. and ADD to Effexor XR, posted by Sara T. on April 16, 2000, at 12:17:40
How long does it take to withdraw from Effexor RX? I feel horroble. It has been 5 days since I stopped (after tapering off). I switched to Welbutrin. I am nauseous, have headaches, dizziness, insomnia, and that weird buzzing in my head, like "The Six Million Dollar Man" (if you remember that show from the 70's).
Any help would be welcome! I was on 225 mgs. daily of Effexor.
Posted by Richie on February 25, 2001, at 2:46:53
In reply to My personal exp. with Effexor XR , posted by Nj_James on November 16, 2000, at 23:24:43
I have had insomnia for years which I used to solve by drinking and smoking marijuana, both of which I have stopped for over two months and now I can not sleep. I was given scrips for Sonata and then Ambien but find I need more than one to get to sleep. The doc started to prescribe anti depressants: Wellbutrin, Celexa and now Effexor 37.5mg), to help with anxiety and sleeplessness, but I have found they just keep me awake. I started to take the Effexor yesterday, and am not sure if it will help my insomnia. He told me to stop taking the Celexa with the Effexor, and the Wellbutrin definitely does not help. He doesn't want to prescribe Trazadone or Remeron because they are narcotics, but I have tried to go off everything and nothing helps to get me to sleep. Melatonin, Valerian, warm milk, turkey, etc. I will spend twelve hours in bed and sleep less than two hours. Any ideas on what I can ask the doc to prescribe to help me sleep? Thanks for any input.
Posted by MSM on February 25, 2001, at 14:40:52
In reply to Insomnia and depression, posted by Richie on February 25, 2001, at 2:46:53
> I have had insomnia for years which I used to solve by drinking and smoking marijuana, both of which I have stopped for over two months and now I can not sleep. I was given scrips for Sonata and then Ambien but find I need more than one to get to sleep. The doc started to prescribe anti depressants: Wellbutrin, Celexa and now Effexor 37.5mg), to help with anxiety and sleeplessness, but I have found they just keep me awake. I started to take the Effexor yesterday, and am not sure if it will help my insomnia. He told me to stop taking the Celexa with the Effexor, and the Wellbutrin definitely does not help. He doesn't want to prescribe Trazadone or Remeron because they are narcotics, but I have tried to go off everything and nothing helps to get me to sleep. Melatonin, Valerian, warm milk, turkey, etc. I will spend twelve hours in bed and sleep less than two hours. Any ideas on what I can ask the doc to prescribe to help me sleep? Thanks for any input.
Wow.....it's good to hear your story. I quit using marijuana and alcohol 12 weeks ago and have gone through exactly what you have. I could not sleep for more than an hour or so at a time and would wake up in a pool of sweat. I was getting three hours sleep a night at most, I was a wreck all day from lack of sleep. I tried every thing you mentioned and nothing helped. I was begining to believe that using was better than not.I tried Zoloft for depression but couldn't handle the side effects. My therapist suggested that I try Remeron. I have been taking it for 3 weeks now and am sleeping better than i've slept in years. Remeron is not a narcotic, it's a relatively new anti-depressant caterogized as an NASSA. Discontinuing use is much easier than discontinuing most SSRI's. I am beginning to feel less depressed and less stressed, my experience so far has been a very good one. There is plenty of information about Remeron on this site and others, I would suggest that you do some reading and perhaps print out some information from this site, the Remeron home site and others, many Medical Universitys have good information on their sites, and take the information to your doctor and ask him, or her, to reconsider. There are two theories about doctors, one is that they don't know everything, the other is that they don't know anyth.......errrr. Well maybe this isn't the best place to theorize about doctors.
I have also done some reading on the rebound effects of quitting marijuana after long term use. It is not uncommon for your body to take 3 to 6 months or even up to a year
to readjust.
Just curious, are you attending any fellowships to help you with your abstinence?Good luck,
Mark
Posted by Janie on February 25, 2001, at 15:40:57
In reply to Re: withdrawal, posted by pocahontas on February 19, 2001, at 12:51:28
> I have been taking a 75mg dose of effexor for about 7 months
> and my side effects were getting worse and worse,
> so my doctor and I decided I needed to come off.
> He suggested taking a pill every other day until my
> prescription was gone, and then gave me samples
> which included a weeks worth of 37.5 mg capsules.
> I couldn't even make the first 48 hours without
> horrible withdrawals, so I went to plan B...start with
> the 37.5 mg dose each day. That was fine, but they
> are gone and I am on day 4 and I am so nauseated that
> I can't stand it, but it does seem to be a little
> like morning sickness in the fact if you eat a little
> you aren't quite so sick. The fuzzy headedness, and
> strange dizziness don't subside though. I can't
> sleep at night, and the tears just flow for no real
> reason, but when I do go to sleep finally
> I can sleep for 12 hours at a time. I have been trying
> do follow a low carb diet to get some of the weight
> off that I have put on, and when I try to exercise
> I just can't move my head from side to side without
> getting sick. From what I have read, these are pretty
> standard withdrawals. I do not want to take more
> of this stuff with the fear that I will never be able
> to get away from it without more side effects, but
> I don't know if I can last another day. I do have
> a few more pills and am considering cutting them up and just eating
> crumbs to get by, but will I ever be able to just do without
> them? How long do I have to endure this before it
> stops?Pocahontas
I met with my MD last week, and am also beginning to withdraw from 37.5 mg/day over a 7-8 month period. I am an RN, and here is my plan of action. I am decreasing the dose literally by hours, beginning with taking 37.5 every 36 hours instead of 24. I have already had some of the withdrawal symptoms you describe, but very mild. The next step will be to go to 37.5 every 48 hours. If this goes well, then I will move to 25 mg of regular Effexor for a period of time, and then down to 12.5 mg until I can finally withdraw totally. I agree, the drug SUCKS!! But I'm lethargic and sleepy all the time on it, so hope my energy picks up. It can't go down.
Posted by lyra31 on February 25, 2001, at 16:28:47
In reply to Has ANYBODY out there lost their Effexor weight ??, posted by NMichele on February 19, 2001, at 7:34:36
> > > Has anybody lost any of the weight they gained from Effexor XR. I gained about 35lbs over the last 2 1/2 years and am now beginning the journey of losing all of this extra weight. If you have, how long did it take and what did you have to do?? Any encouragement would be wonderful!! Thanks - NMichele
NMichele I was on depakote for 6 months and gained 20 pounds while I was on it and thats why I stopped taking it. After I stopped taking it took about 3 months to lose the wieght and also I work out at the same time and went on a strict diet and now it is almost of and I fell better .
good luck
Posted by Sandykay on February 25, 2001, at 21:02:14
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
I have been taking 150mg Effexor now for about four years. I absolutely love the way it makes me feel compared to my normal moods and anxiety levels. Taking Effexor gave me the strength to get out of a long bad relationship and the power to be myself in and out of public instead of worrying about appearances all the time. I am now married to a wonderful man. We want to have children but are concerned about what the side effects could be from the medication. I had every single side effect when I started effexor, the constipation for weeks, the sweating, the nausea, the weird dreams, the shaking, but they went away. If I miss a dose I am already nauseated and weird by late in the afternoon. I tried tapering off last summer under doctor supervision but the depression and anxiety came back and made life uncomfortable for my husband and I. My doctor says that there really is no data to show problems with fetuses but I am concerned because I have had two miscarriages while on the medications. My Obyn seems to think that it could be related to the medication and is reluctant to try any tests for other causes until after I stop the medicine. I also teach first graders and for that reason alone am uncomfortable with stopping the medication. Is their anyone out there who has had any experiences with effexor and pregnancy? I would really appreciate any input.
Posted by Kazza on February 26, 2001, at 1:01:00
In reply to Re: Has ANYBODY out there lost their Effexor weight ??, posted by lyra31 on February 25, 2001, at 16:28:47
Hello, I have been on Efexor for over 2 years and have decided to get off them because I am SICK of the 20 pounds I gained in less than a year. I am a personal trainer and the weight gain was not caused by not exercising but because my appetite has been INSANE! I am hungry every 2 hours no matter what I eat. Has anyone else found this? I am hoping that my appetite will decrease, and I can stop having nightmares. I am at 150mg down from 225mg. Other people mention nice dreams, but I seem to spend my nights being chassed/killed/hurt/ or being dumped! I find it very exhausting, and I am often tired during the day. I find napping to be very helpful. I am quite scared of the side effects, and since I am in University I am worried my grades will be affected. My depression was better on the pills, but I want to be drug free for awhile. Thanks to everyone who has posted info about their side effects ect. Doctors only know what the big pharmasutical companies tell them, and we are the ones who are experiencing it.
good luck to all.
Posted by MarkinBoston on February 26, 2001, at 12:50:04
In reply to I gained 20 pounds BLAH, posted by Kazza on February 26, 2001, at 1:01:00
I now take Adderall with my Effexor, and used to take Ritalin. It helps my ADD, energy, mood, concentration, and decreases appetite.
The most effective drug that I've ever taken to help with weight is testosterone - it produced fat loss and muscle gain. More suitable for women are less androgenic anabolic steroids like Primobolan or Winstrol. The benefits from taking these drugs, like most drugs, fade soon after they they are discontinued, so you may need them as long as you are on Effexor. Again, like most drugs, anabolic steroids may have some dose related unwanted side effects or hepa-toxicity - depending completely on which drug is used. Hey, I know steroids are as evil as communists in the McCarthy era, but they do work.
As far as insomnia goes, I do much better on the old non-XR than XR, taking 150mg. first thing in the morning and 75mg. in the early afternoon. I might get a little withdrawl headache my late morning the next day to remind me if I haven't taked my morning dose yet. When I do dream, they are usually good.
In the past, after 6-9 months or so on Effexor, I am through my depression and go off it. Research indicates stopping meds before 1 year has been up increases the likelyhood of eventually relapsing. With SSRI's (not Effexor), its also likely that the same drug may not work the second time.
> Hello, I have been on Efexor for over 2 years and have decided to get off them because I am SICK of the 20 pounds I gained in less than a year. I am a personal trainer and the weight gain was not caused by not exercising but because my appetite has been INSANE! I am hungry every 2 hours no matter what I eat. Has anyone else found this? I am hoping that my appetite will decrease, and I can stop having nightmares. I am at 150mg down from 225mg. Other people mention nice dreams, but I seem to spend my nights being chassed/killed/hurt/ or being dumped! I find it very exhausting, and I am often tired during the day. I find napping to be very helpful. I am quite scared of the side effects, and since I am in University I am worried my grades will be affected. My depression was better on the pills, but I want to be drug free for awhile. Thanks to everyone who has posted info about their side effects ect. Doctors only know what the big pharmasutical companies tell them, and we are the ones who are experiencing it.
> good luck to all.
Posted by louxloux on February 26, 2001, at 13:56:28
In reply to Re: New to Effexor XR, my side effects, anyone else?, posted by Kara on August 28, 2000, at 13:45:02
I have been on Effexor XR for a little over two months now... My Doc bumped me up to 75 mg. about 3 weeks ago... the only changes that I have noticed are: tremors when I first get up in the morning, and that it is much easier to get up in the morning. No positive effect on my mood, in fact, I recently had a depressive episode which was much worse than those I have experienced previously. Stopped eating altogether, obsessing about my low, withdrawn... locked myself in my house literally for days which is something that I have never done before. I have always managed to go to work, etc. even during episodes until this last one. Felt like I was absolutely going crazy. Has anyone had this sort of reaction from Effexor XR?? Have an appointment today with my Doc... this last episode really scared me, so I am opting to get off the med.
Also prior to Effexor XR... I took Paxil for nearly a year. It took around 6 weeks to finally kick in and boy did it. It was wonderful for several months before it seemed to lose its efficacy.. like taking nothing at all. Has anyone had this type of reaction from Paxil? Is it possible to build a tolerance? My Doc bumped me up in dosage and continued on the med for another two months. All the increase did was make me want to sleep 24/7, so he took me off of it, and then I was started on Effexor. Any information about these two would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
louxloux
Posted by annj on February 27, 2001, at 15:14:49
In reply to Paxil, now Effexor XR, anyone experience the same?, posted by louxloux on February 26, 2001, at 13:56:28
Posted by annj on February 27, 2001, at 15:22:39
In reply to Re: withdrawal » pocahontas, posted by Janie on February 25, 2001, at 15:40:57
Is there anything we can do to warn others and their doctors how terrible this drug is to get off of. It seems like the company should be required to tell people about this. It is terrible!
Posted by annj on February 27, 2001, at 15:37:01
In reply to Long term effects of Effexor/permanent , posted by Leo on February 13, 2001, at 11:55:34
As I read all of these posts from people getting off of effexor I want to cry. I know exactly how you all feel. My memory is shot, I can't finish sentences because I can't find the word I want, I feel like I have the flu most days and the eye-whooshing/ weird dizziness/ brain catching up with eyes thing....I don't think I will ever be the same. I am living in the fog of effexor withdrawl. If I can do anything to help with your investigation, let me know. I was only on it for 9 months, but what it has done to me is amazing.....amazing that it did so much harm. I feel such a kinship with all of you. Please feel free to contact me to chat or share stories, or what ever. Depression and anxiety are bad enough without having to deal with drugs screwing us up more.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.