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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by allisonm on January 20, 2001, at 22:09:27
Posted by mars on January 21, 2001, at 0:08:26
In reply to Article on ECT in Feb. Atlantic Monthly, posted by allisonm on January 20, 2001, at 22:09:27
Allison -
Thanks so much for posting the link. This is one of the best articles I've read about the subject. I had eight ECT treatments about a year ago - my pdoc had a sudden reversal of her attitude about ECT after a former patient came back to her with a success story, which caused my pdoc to reevaluate the effectiveness of ECT. I was in really bad shape and not responding to any pharmaceuticals.
ECT was a "peaceful" and definitely *passive* experience, and definitely helped me...initially. But the effects wore off fairly quickly (I had a violent and painful reversal, as well) and the memory problems were quirky but substantial. I'm not yet ready to accept a future where I receive ECT regularly.
mars
> http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2001/02/smith.htm
Posted by dj on January 21, 2001, at 2:38:18
In reply to Re: Article on ECT in Feb. Atlantic Monthly, posted by mars on January 21, 2001, at 0:08:26
> ECT was a "peaceful" and definitely *passive* experience, and definitely helped me...initially. But the effects wore off fairly quickly (I had a violent and painful reversal, as well) and the > >memory problems were quirky but substantial.Mars,
Did you do the neuro. before or after ECT? What about the impact of ECT on meds, initially and later?
dj
Posted by mars on January 21, 2001, at 8:11:54
In reply to Re: ECT neurofeedback??? Mars, posted by dj on January 21, 2001, at 2:38:18
Hi dj ~
I did the neurofeeback about five or six months after the ECT. I had to go off all meds before the ECT, which was a bit scary. The hospital where I had it prefers that approach, and I worked with an ECT specialist that my regular pdoc referred me to.
There is always the hope that one set of treatments will suffice - I did the maximum that my insurance would cover. I became a bit hypomanic after the ECT, felt really good but really wasn't working on my life the way I should have been (ECT didn't seem to affect my lack of motivation or rampant nihilism), and then I really crashed. I don't remember much after that, honestly. Not a good time.
Went back on meds after my crash (and my refusal to go off all meds and just use ECT for treatment): lithium for sure, and synthroid for augmentation, but I can't remember what else I was taking. I think Effexor, which I tolerate pretty well. They are helping to keep me alive, I guess, but not much more than that.
I would be glad to find out more detail for you; I don't see my pdoc too often these days, but she might respond to an email. She's really busy. I'm sorry my memory is so poor.
I'd love to continue the neurofeedback, but don't have the funds right now. It's one of the few treatments known to help people with fetal alcohol syndrome/effects, but it can take a lot of treatments and of course the outcome's not guaranteed.
best,
mary
> > ECT was a "peaceful" and definitely *passive* experience, and definitely helped me...initially. But the effects wore off fairly quickly (I had a violent and painful reversal, as well) and the > >memory problems were quirky but substantial.
>
> Mars,
>
> Did you do the neuro. before or after ECT? What about the impact of ECT on meds, initially and later?
>
> dj
Posted by dj on January 21, 2001, at 11:17:57
In reply to Re: ECT neurofeedback??? Mars » dj, posted by mars on January 21, 2001, at 8:11:54
> I did the neurofeeback about five or six months after the ECT...
> I'd love to continue the neurofeedback, but don't have the funds right now. It's one of the few treatments known to help people with fetal alcohol syndrome/effects, but it can take a lot of treatments and of course the outcome's not >
> > guaranteed.Mars,
How many Neurofeedback treatments did you have and what did you notice from them? Did they help at all, at the time? Were you able to adjust your meds, at the time or???
dj
Posted by mars on January 21, 2001, at 12:01:26
In reply to Re: More on neurofeedback???}} Mars, posted by dj on January 21, 2001, at 11:17:57
dj ~
I think I did a few more than twenty treatments; I did them twice a week, Mondays and Thursdays - it helps to spread them out evenly. I had some difficulty getting used to the process ~ you don't actually *do* much except try to pay attention, but I became much more comfortable with the process as time went on. I really liked the people I was working with - they gave me lots of information and feedback about what was going on. It takes some time figuring out what frequencies to focus on, and I did occasionally have some anxiety in response to a treatment. But I also had some good results, and that was pretty exciting. My life was pretty chaotic at the time, so I did have to think a lot about what was the effect of the neuro and what other effects I was feeling from the difficulties in my life.
What happened near the end was that we were getting to a point where they were thinking about switching me to some different equipment ~ we just weren't to make any progress. Also, they mentioned the software wasn't calibrated finely enough for them to get to what they thought the right frequencies were - and they also said that my brain is very, very sensitive. (sigh - i seem to get that a lot :) They did say, however, that a new version of the software was coming out that might yield better results.
I did adjust my lithium up and down a tiny bit ~ I was feeling too medicated at first, but then got a bit wired later on. They prefer you to keep your meds stable so they know whether any changes you experience are due to the treatments. I didn't work with my pdoc about the neuro ~ she and I were having a lot of problems at the time, and on some occasions she treats new areas of inquiry that I bring up with a skepticism that seems like a form of reactive stupidity to me. (She's not always like that.) I was so intent on finding some alternative to ECT that I just went ahead and did it, and I'm glad I did. The psychologist I worked with also didn't have a lot of experience with bipolar disorders and my meds. That may be a more general problem with neurofeedback ~ my understanding is that not a lot of the practitioners are MD's, although some psychology PhD's obviously know a lot about meds.
I did feel that it was a very worthwhile experience, and if/when I can swing it financially, I want to go back for a more extended trial. I also think it would help if I waited until my life were a bit more stable than it was back then, so it may be awhile before I can try it.
check out these links:
http://www.symphonyinthebrain.com - website for a good book on neurofeedback
http://www.eegspectrum.com - lots of info about using neurofeedback to treat various disorders, and links to neurofeedback providers all over the world. The guy I worked with is listed here, although I actually just found him by searching on biofeedback, hitting the term neurofeedback, and then sifting through a bunch of links to crappy information. When I found Dr. Rothman's page I was really impressed with how straightforward he was. He was like that in person, too, so I think I got lucky.
Are you thinking about trying it?
mary
> Mars,
>
> How many Neurofeedback treatments did you have and what did you notice from them? Did they help at all, at the time? Were you able to adjust your meds, at the time or???
>
> dj
Posted by dj on January 21, 2001, at 12:34:31
In reply to Re: More on neurofeedback??? » dj, posted by mars on January 21, 2001, at 12:01:26
> Are you thinking about trying it?Mars,
Giving it some consideration...sounds like you received some benefits and expect you'd possibly receive more with the change of regime. I'm curious what specific positive benefits you recall from those 20+ sessions that encourages you to consider perhaps pursuing it more at another time, if $ permits. BTW, what was the cost where you checked it out? Around $100 (Cdn) per session here...
dj
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