Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 50398

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2 questions/SAM-e

Posted by stephanie l. on December 11, 2000, at 18:03:35

I just started taking SAM-e and was hit by lots of nausea. I read that nausea is sometimes a side effect of SAM-e.. Has anyone else had this....did it go away with time....if so, how much time?

Also, one of the postings on psychobabble said that SAM-e could be taken with other ADs, including MAOIs. Now I read in another post that Richard Brown, author of the book on SAM-e, advises against combining SAM-e with MAOIs. Any input, anyone?

Thanks as always.

 

Re: 2 questions/SAM-e

Posted by Maniz on December 11, 2000, at 18:46:23

In reply to 2 questions/SAM-e, posted by stephanie l. on December 11, 2000, at 18:03:35

Hi,

How strange, never happend to me when I took SAMe.

You have to take it on an empty stomach. How much do you take?. Start with 200mg. Remember to take Bs vitamin to reduce homocisteine.

Yes, I also read you do not have to take same toguether with other antidepressive. I think it is right to not mix them.


> I just started taking SAM-e and was hit by lots of nausea. I read that nausea is sometimes a side effect of SAM-e.. Has anyone else had this....did it go away with time....if so, how much time?
>
> Also, one of the postings on psychobabble said that SAM-e could be taken with other ADs, including MAOIs. Now I read in another post that Richard Brown, author of the book on SAM-e, advises against combining SAM-e with MAOIs. Any input, anyone?
>
> Thanks as always.

 

Re: 2 questions/SAM-e

Posted by Bill L on December 12, 2000, at 9:09:16

In reply to 2 questions/SAM-e, posted by stephanie l. on December 11, 2000, at 18:03:35

Stephanie- I'm the one who said that Dr. Brown's book recommended not to take SAM-e with MAOI's. I read his book over a year a go. If I recall correctly, he said that he has combined SAM-e with a variety of AD's (including the SSRI's) but not with an MAOI. But I think that he said that he wasn't sure if it could be used with an MAOI, but that possibly it could be. Or maybe one just needs to use more caution if combining it with an MAOI. So I didn't really relay the information on his book as accurately as I should have. SAM-e is relatively new so I guess people are still experimenting with different combinations of drugs. You should check with your doctor first if you are taking an MAOI. The danger is that of seratonin syndrome.

I currently take SAM-e with Celexa. I have been taking SAM-e for over 2 years. I think that your feeling of nausea should go away with continued use. SAM-e should be taken atleast 30 minutes before eating breakfast. Dr. Brown said that you should try to stick with atleast 30 minutes or even longer before eating. But I do remember in his book that he said that if it does cause stomach upset, to then take it with food. So maybe you could take it with food for now, then later when you are used to it, take it on an empty stomach.

> I just started taking SAM-e and was hit by lots of nausea. I read that nausea is sometimes a side effect of SAM-e.. Has anyone else had this....did it go away with time....if so, how much time?
>
> Also, one of the postings on psychobabble said that SAM-e could be taken with other ADs, including MAOIs. Now I read in another post that Richard Brown, author of the book on SAM-e, advises against combining SAM-e with MAOIs. Any input, anyone?
>
> Thanks as always.

 

Re: 2 questions/SAM-e » stephanie l.

Posted by shellie on December 12, 2000, at 10:06:03

In reply to 2 questions/SAM-e, posted by stephanie l. on December 11, 2000, at 18:03:35

Hi Stephanie, I'm probably the person who wrote that sam-e was okay to take with MAOIs. I know it says in Brown's book that you shouldnÕt. However, I talked to both Dr. Brown and his co-author, Terry Bottiglieri who has been involved in research with sam-e (I think he's a biochemist, PhD) since his dissertation and now teaches in Texas and is considered the sam-e expert in the U.S. First I talked to Dr. Bottiglieri because Dr. Brown doesn't do consultations and I knew he wouldn't call me back if I left him a message. I actually tracked Bottiglieri down (found his home number listed on the internet) and called him at home. He then gave me his office number and we talked the next day for quite a while. He said that in Italy people were combining the two, and there was no chemical reason not to. Then he told me that I should call Dr. Brown, because he would call him and tell him about me. I talked to Dr. Brown for an hour on a Saturday. I still don't quite understand why he has that about MAOIs in his book; he told me he had used sam-e with MAOIs. Not only did he tell me how to use sam-e (like how fast to go up and when to know if it wouldn't work), but he gave me a list of other augmentors to use with nardil if sam-e didn't work. He said he had had enormous success with MAOIs and lamictal and thatÕs what I should try if I got no benefit from sam-e.

I am telling you this whole story because I want you to know that both authors actually say it is safe to combine the two. My current local pdoc has combined the two also, but she says she has not seen any successful results. But no bad reactions. She also said she has a colleague in NY who swears by sam-e. I also was not successful with it, but the combination of lamictal and sam-e worked really well for me.

INFORMATION FROM DR. BROWN:
this was the protogol he gave me for sam-e:
100 x 2x for 3 daysÑ(200)
200 x 2x for 3 daysÑ(400)
400 x 2x for 3 days-(800)
600 x 2 for 1 weekÑ(1200)
800 x 2 for 10-14 daysÑ (1600)
if doesnÕt work stop; if getting some effect can go up to 1400 x 2
take folaid or folic acid-800mc;
take b-12- 100 mc;


OTHER OPTIONS TO ADD WITH NARDIL

1. thyroid, add 25 mc of cytomel (t3) for 2 weeks; can try 37.5 also
***2. lamcital- (anti-seizure medication) have to go up very very slowlyÑover a 3 month period--
3. add very low lithium level (works 50% of time)Ñ
4. add traxedone (deserel) ;
5. pindolol can boast MAO inhibitors
6. add ritalin to boast MAOs

hope this clarifies things. shellie

 

Re: 2 questions/SAM-e - correction

Posted by Bill L on December 13, 2000, at 8:56:34

In reply to Re: 2 questions/SAM-e » stephanie l., posted by shellie on December 12, 2000, at 10:06:03

Shellie- thank's for the info. It's very valuable to me since I take SAM-e (along with Celexa). I read his book and I agree with the amount of folate being 800 units but I believe that he recommends 1,000 units of B12. In your post it says 100 units (mcg).

> Hi Stephanie, I'm probably the person who wrote that sam-e was okay to take with MAOIs. I know it says in Brown's book that you shouldnÕt. However, I talked to both Dr. Brown and his co-author, Terry Bottiglieri who has been involved in research with sam-e (I think he's a biochemist, PhD) since his dissertation and now teaches in Texas and is considered the sam-e expert in the U.S. First I talked to Dr. Bottiglieri because Dr. Brown doesn't do consultations and I knew he wouldn't call me back if I left him a message. I actually tracked Bottiglieri down (found his home number listed on the internet) and called him at home. He then gave me his office number and we talked the next day for quite a while. He said that in Italy people were combining the two, and there was no chemical reason not to. Then he told me that I should call Dr. Brown, because he would call him and tell him about me. I talked to Dr. Brown for an hour on a Saturday. I still don't quite understand why he has that about MAOIs in his book; he told me he had used sam-e with MAOIs. Not only did he tell me how to use sam-e (like how fast to go up and when to know if it wouldn't work), but he gave me a list of other augmentors to use with nardil if sam-e didn't work. He said he had had enormous success with MAOIs and lamictal and thatÕs what I should try if I got no benefit from sam-e.
>
> I am telling you this whole story because I want you to know that both authors actually say it is safe to combine the two. My current local pdoc has combined the two also, but she says she has not seen any successful results. But no bad reactions. She also said she has a colleague in NY who swears by sam-e. I also was not successful with it, but the combination of lamictal and sam-e worked really well for me.
>
> INFORMATION FROM DR. BROWN:
> this was the protogol he gave me for sam-e:
> 100 x 2x for 3 daysÑ(200)
> 200 x 2x for 3 daysÑ(400)
> 400 x 2x for 3 days-(800)
> 600 x 2 for 1 weekÑ(1200)
> 800 x 2 for 10-14 daysÑ (1600)
> if doesnÕt work stop; if getting some effect can go up to 1400 x 2
> take folaid or folic acid-800mc;
> take b-12- 100 mc;
>
>
> OTHER OPTIONS TO ADD WITH NARDIL
>
> 1. thyroid, add 25 mc of cytomel (t3) for 2 weeks; can try 37.5 also
> ***2. lamcital- (anti-seizure medication) have to go up very very slowlyÑover a 3 month period--
> 3. add very low lithium level (works 50% of time)Ñ
> 4. add traxedone (deserel) ;
> 5. pindolol can boast MAO inhibitors
> 6. add ritalin to boast MAOs
>
> hope this clarifies things. shellie

 

Yes,1000mg b-12 (not 100) is important, Thanks(np) » Bill L

Posted by shellie on December 13, 2000, at 13:09:24

In reply to Re: 2 questions/SAM-e - correction, posted by Bill L on December 13, 2000, at 8:56:34

> Shellie- thank's for the info. It's very valuable to me since I take SAM-e (along with Celexa). I read his book and I agree with the amount of folate being 800 units but I believe that he recommends 1,000 units of B12. In your post it says 100 units (mcg).


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