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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 23 to 47 of 56. Go back in thread:
Posted by Cam W. on August 24, 2000, at 18:38:10
In reply to Re: Serzone and MDMA, posted by stjames on August 24, 2000, at 12:05:46
James - I just read a cool article on MDMA and Celexa™ (citalopram). Celexa decreases the effects of Ecstacy by 60% but prolongs the half life to 5 hours from 3 hours. Low level buzz for longer. The paper extrapolated this to all SSRIs. - Cam
Posted by stjames on August 24, 2000, at 22:19:25
In reply to Re: Serzone and MDMA, posted by Cam W. on August 24, 2000, at 18:38:10
> James - I just read a cool article on MDMA and Celexa™ (citalopram). Celexa decreases the effects of Ecstacy by 60%
but prolongs the half life to 5 hours from 3 hours. Low level buzz for longer. The paper extrapolated this to all SSRIs. - CamJames here....
AD's block the effects of XTC in many people, they did in me.
I did get the amphetamine effects but did not "roll" nor did
I get the warm empathic feelings. Hmmm.... very interesting, Cam.
Taking an SSRI w/XTC is touted as stoping any neurotoxic effect of XTC (but
there is little proof XTC is neurotoxic in any sig amount and this info comes from
animal studies) I am strongly aganist this as I think one is playing with fire.
This gives me more proof. If one were to take lots of X and Celexa™ I feel there would be
dangers due to the longer action. Things like overheating, which are neuro destructive.
If you have the title of this paper, send it on, please. I would like to pass it to
the MAPS list and watch the PhD's discuss it.james
Posted by Cam W. on August 24, 2000, at 23:17:47
In reply to Re: Serzone and MDMA, posted by stjames on August 24, 2000, at 22:19:25
> If you have the title of this paper, send it on, please. I would like to pass it to
> the MAPS list and watch the PhD's discuss it.
>>james
James - I'll do you one better. I'll take you to the journal:http://www.elsevier.nl/gej-ng/10/33/33/33/28/Show/Products/NPS/toc.htt
It's the 7th article from the top:
Matthias E, etal. Acute Psychological Effects of 3,4-Methylenedioxymethylamphetamine (MDMA, Ecstacy) are Attenuated by the Serotonin Uptake Inhibitor Citalopram, Neuropsychopharmacology, 22(5); May, 2000:504-512.
You can view it online or download it and print it.
While you are at it, check out:
http://www.elsevier.nl/gej-ng/10/33/33/33/28/Show/Products/NPS/toc.htt
It's the 5th article from the top:
Tuchtenhagen MD, et al. High Intensity Dependence of Auditory Evoked Dipole Source Activity in Abstinenct Ecstacy (MDMA) Users, Neuropsychopharmacology, 22(6): 608-617.
Have fun and give me the gist of the conversation these evoke - Cam
Posted by Cam W. on August 24, 2000, at 23:27:26
In reply to Re: Serzone and MDMA, posted by Cam W. on August 24, 2000, at 23:17:47
> > If you have the title of this paper, send it on, please. I would like to pass it to
> > the MAPS list and watch the PhD's discuss it.
> >
>
> >james
>
>
> James - I'll do you one better. I'll take you to the journal:
>
http://www.elsevier.nl/gej-ng/10/33/33/33/28/show/Products/NPS/toc.htt
>
> It's the 7th article from the top:
>
> Matthias E, etal. Acute Psychological Effects of 3,4-Methylenedioxymethylamphetamine (MDMA, Ecstacy) are Attenuated by the Serotonin Uptake Inhibitor Citalopram, Neuropsychopharmacology, 22(5); May, 2000:504-512.
>
> You can view it online or download it and print it.
>
> While you are at it, check out:
>
http://www.elsevier.nl/gej-ng/10/33/33/33/28/show/Products/NPS/toc.htt
>
> It's the 5th article from the top:
>
> Tuchtenhagen MD, et al. High Intensity Dependence of Auditory Evoked Dipole Source Activity in Abstinenct Ecstacy (MDMA) Users, Neuropsychopharmacology, 22(6): 608-617.
>
> Have fun and give me the gist of the conversation these evoke - CamOkay, try it with small "s" in /show/ (sigh). I guess I ain't no Bill Gates. - Cam
Posted by SLS on August 25, 2000, at 8:01:28
In reply to Re: Serzone and MDMA, posted by stjames on August 24, 2000, at 22:19:25
> If you have the title of this paper, send it on, please. I would like to pass it to
> the MAPS list and watch the PhD's discuss it.
>
> james
Hi James.What is the MAPS list?
- Scott
Posted by Big Mike on August 25, 2000, at 11:08:06
In reply to Re: Serzone and MDMA, posted by Dixon on August 24, 2000, at 11:34:58
But if MDMA did cause permanent/temporary damage...what would it damage and would an SSRI work to restore what was damaged, and if so, how does this work????
Posted by CraigF on August 25, 2000, at 12:30:47
In reply to Re: Serzone and MDMA, posted by Big Mike on August 25, 2000, at 11:08:06
I know this isn't terribly scientific or anything, but my doc told me after reading recent studies that the brain repairs the receptors eventually, but they grow back shorter, and in a different position. This lessens their effectiveness and can eventually lower the efficacy of AD's.
He added, however, that some people seem fairly immune to the effects of E while some psyches can't handle it well at all. Unfortunately, I fall into the latter category.
Posted by stjames on August 25, 2000, at 12:53:09
In reply to Re: Serzone and MDMA, posted by SLS on August 25, 2000, at 8:01:28
>
> Hi James.
>
> What is the MAPS list?
>
>
> - Scott"The Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS) is a membership-based non-profit research and educational organization. We assist scientists to design, fund, obtain approval for and report on studies into the healing and spiritual potentials of MDMA, psychedelic drugs and marijuana. "
Posted by cd on September 2, 2000, at 20:47:05
In reply to Re: Serzone and MDMA, posted by stjames on August 25, 2000, at 12:53:09
Just for the sake of putting the toxicity of MDMA into perspective,
search for its structure on the web and do the same for Paxil.
Compare the two and the similarity jumps at you.
Hmmm wonder where they came up with the idea for Paxil.
Attach MDMA to another molecule to slow its effects and you have your new wonder dug.
Anectdotal evidence from people I know who have taken Paxil and MDMA in various combinations,
that is together, one before the other, after washout periods etc..
would seem to point to an accelerated removal of MDMA from the body after exposure to Paxil.
Perhaps the body is just used to chewing up the MDMA molecule after daily exposure to a similar item through Paxil?
As things stand, no one says long term Paxil
or short term rare MDMA exposure is going to cause major irreversible damage.
Posted by noa on September 4, 2000, at 13:03:52
In reply to Re: Serzone and MDMA, posted by cd on September 2, 2000, at 20:47:05
A major difference that is very important is that with prescription medications, the potency and volume is standardized and reliable. With street drugs, you never know what and how much and how strong.
Posted by Ryan P. on October 30, 2000, at 10:35:39
In reply to Re: Serzone and MDMA, posted by Bons on May 22, 2000, at 22:48:12
> From what I understand serzone is an SSRI and inhibits the effects of X, my advice if you really want to try it, lay off the serzone for a week, that is what my friends have done in the past. Apparently the X wont really work at all if you take it while taking serzone. I am not saying this is the best idea in the world, but if your set on trying X at least enjoy it.
I would have to agree. I'm 22 years old, and I started taking X two years ago. While I was once taking up to two pills a week, I am currently taking X only once or twice a month. I was also recently prescribed Serzone for social anxiety. I started taking it about 7 weeks ago, and am up to 500 mg/day (possibly will take more). The last two times I've taken X (both within the last 7 weeks), I've had very minimal "rolling" effects from X. It is my understanding that Prozac has been proven to prevent the effectiveness of X, but I had not heard that about other anti-depressants. Is there an anti-depressant that will not limit the effectiveness of X? I'm beginning to feel like doing X now is just a waste of money. And probably isn't helping the anti-depressant do its job very well.
Posted by CraigF on October 31, 2000, at 7:55:21
In reply to Re: Serzone and MDMA, posted by Ryan P. on October 30, 2000, at 10:35:39
Not only that, but by taking ecstacy you are destroying your brain's ability to maintain a good mood, free of anxiety. Ask your doctor.
I'm not being sanctimonious, I'm 28 myself and all my friends roll. I had to stop because it affects my moods too much in the long run.
The choice is yours, but make sure you know what it is doing to your brain. Find out from your doctor, not Time magazine, not a DARE poster.
Posted by Ryan P. on November 1, 2000, at 11:44:34
In reply to Re: Serzone and MDMA, posted by CraigF on October 31, 2000, at 7:55:21
> Not only that, but by taking ecstacy you are destroying your brain's ability to maintain a good mood, free of anxiety. Ask your doctor.
>
> I'm not being sanctimonious, I'm 28 myself and all my friends roll. I had to stop because it affects my moods too much in the long run.
>
> The choice is yours, but make sure you know what it is doing to your brain. Find out from your doctor, not Time magazine, not a DARE poster.I know full well what it is doing to my brain. I've done an adequate amount of research and understand the functions of serotonin and the process utilized by neurotransmitters and axons, etc. I do research on any drug that I might take-including serzone. My question is not concerning the harmful effects of E. I already know all that stuff. My question is regarding the combination of both E and serzone. That combination I do not understand as clearly. What causes the two chemicals to balance each other out? It seems that an anti-depressant that enhances serotonin would complement an illegal drug that does, in essence, the same thing. Just to let you know, I've cut down on E use specifically because I know that it can be harmful with overuse, but I also believe that in moderation, the drug can be not only safe but also can provide a unique outlet that allows me to open up and share thoughts with friends and others that I wouldn't normally feel comfortable enough to express.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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