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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tawna Baier on October 5, 2000, at 2:26:36
Hey,
This is my first time ever leaving a message on here but, I really need some advice. About 6 months ago I was put on Paxil for mild depression and panic attacks. I became worse than I was before I started it. I was so tired and had no motivation to do anything. After 6 weeks on the Paxil my Dr. took me off it and started me on Prozac. At first, I loved it....I didn't feel wonderful but it gave me a little energy and a little hope that I was going to get better. After about a month it all went down hill from there. I started getting tired and withdrawn again. My thoughts, emotions,actions...just everything got worse. I tried to hide it though and kept saying "The prozac helped before and if I take it long enough it will again." Wrong!!! I stayed on the prozac for 4 months before I couldn't hide what I was going through anymore. I was extremly tired all of the time, either I couldn't sleep(due to RLS) or it was a very disturbed sleep that really didn't do me any good. I would start crying and it seemed like i couldn't stop. I lost contact with most of my friend and a lot of my family. It was awful. I went to the Dr. last Thursday(9-28) and he took me off of the prozac and put me on Wellbutrin SR and recommended that I start seeing a clinical counsler. I asked him if it would be ok to stop the prozac "cold turkey" and he said "yeah, you should be fine." Well, I'm not!!! I'm miserable. 3 days after I stopped the prozac and started the wellbutrin sr, I got this headache that seemed to be right in between my eyes. The next day(last Mon.10-1) the headache was still there and only got worse. Nothing I took would help it. My hands started shaking real bad and I started to tremble. I became extremly agitated and would get mad over nothing. I couldn't think, it seemed like nothing made sense and the more I tried the more upset I got and ended up crying. I called my Dr. on Tues.(10-2) but, he was not in because it was his half day. So, I just got worse all day. I tried to drive and I couldn't!! I almost immediatley got very panicked....i had to concentrate on my breathing, I got this tingling/numb feeling all over and I literally felt like I was going to pass out or just completley freak out at any moment. I called my pharmacist and she was shocked that my Dr. just had me drop the prozac. She said my symptoms could be withdrawls or a side effect of the wellbutrin. I talked to my docter today(Wed. 10-3) and he told me to stop taking the Wellbutrin SR for a week to allow a little time for some of the prozac to get out of my system, then start the Wellbutrin back. And that was it!! So, I have really NO idea what's going on with me. I'm on a drug off a drug and so on. I feel worse now than I ever have! I have all these strange, new symptoms that all seemed to start at once and I don't know why, how to deal with it or how to stop it!! I have a 2 year old and I couldn't even take care of him today. (Thank God for Grandmothers!!) I feel like I'm hanging from a cliff trying so hard to hold on but knowing that i'm gonna fall soon. If that makes sense. I think the worst thing is not knowing why all this is happening. I've read the "signs" of depression so, I know where those are coming from. But, what about the being paranoid, wake up at night soaked in sweat but, don't know why. When I drive I am almost overwhelmed with panic.(It's like that when I ride in the car too just not so bad) I've had about 8-10 hours of sleep since Sunday. I feel like I'm not in control of my thoughts and emotions. I feel like I don't even control my life. I hate all of this. I really, really hate it. I'm so scared because I don't know what's going on with me. I don't know when or if it will stop.So, what I need to know is what is going on with me? Why was I just mildly depressed 6 months ago and then very depressed a week ago and now I'm....I don't know. I'm a mess! My family and friends really don't understand what's going on so they are really not much help. My docter hasn't told me anything, I don't even know if HE knows what he's doing. Is this all from prozac withdrawls or is it from the side effects of Wellbutrin Sr. Or am I just really going crazy? I need to know...I have to know because I can't stay like this, but I don't know how to stop it. Please, if someone knows or can relate with some of this, tell me what I need to do. Thanks for being here to get this all out. It's nice to know that there are people out there willing to take the time to read and respond to other people. So...Thanks!!
Posted by Cindy W on October 5, 2000, at 9:25:23
In reply to HELP!!!! I don't know what to do!!!, posted by Tawna Baier on October 5, 2000, at 2:26:36
> Hey,
> This is my first time ever leaving a message on here but, I really need some advice. About 6 months ago I was put on Paxil for mild depression and panic attacks. I became worse than I was before I started it. I was so tired and had no motivation to do anything. After 6 weeks on the Paxil my Dr. took me off it and started me on Prozac. At first, I loved it....I didn't feel wonderful but it gave me a little energy and a little hope that I was going to get better. After about a month it all went down hill from there. I started getting tired and withdrawn again. My thoughts, emotions,actions...just everything got worse. I tried to hide it though and kept saying "The prozac helped before and if I take it long enough it will again." Wrong!!! I stayed on the prozac for 4 months before I couldn't hide what I was going through anymore. I was extremly tired all of the time, either I couldn't sleep(due to RLS) or it was a very disturbed sleep that really didn't do me any good. I would start crying and it seemed like i couldn't stop. I lost contact with most of my friend and a lot of my family. It was awful. I went to the Dr. last Thursday(9-28) and he took me off of the prozac and put me on Wellbutrin SR and recommended that I start seeing a clinical counsler. I asked him if it would be ok to stop the prozac "cold turkey" and he said "yeah, you should be fine." Well, I'm not!!! I'm miserable. 3 days after I stopped the prozac and started the wellbutrin sr, I got this headache that seemed to be right in between my eyes. The next day(last Mon.10-1) the headache was still there and only got worse. Nothing I took would help it. My hands started shaking real bad and I started to tremble. I became extremly agitated and would get mad over nothing. I couldn't think, it seemed like nothing made sense and the more I tried the more upset I got and ended up crying. I called my Dr. on Tues.(10-2) but, he was not in because it was his half day. So, I just got worse all day. I tried to drive and I couldn't!! I almost immediatley got very panicked....i had to concentrate on my breathing, I got this tingling/numb feeling all over and I literally felt like I was going to pass out or just completley freak out at any moment. I called my pharmacist and she was shocked that my Dr. just had me drop the prozac. She said my symptoms could be withdrawls or a side effect of the wellbutrin. I talked to my docter today(Wed. 10-3) and he told me to stop taking the Wellbutrin SR for a week to allow a little time for some of the prozac to get out of my system, then start the Wellbutrin back. And that was it!! So, I have really NO idea what's going on with me. I'm on a drug off a drug and so on. I feel worse now than I ever have! I have all these strange, new symptoms that all seemed to start at once and I don't know why, how to deal with it or how to stop it!! I have a 2 year old and I couldn't even take care of him today. (Thank God for Grandmothers!!) I feel like I'm hanging from a cliff trying so hard to hold on but knowing that i'm gonna fall soon. If that makes sense. I think the worst thing is not knowing why all this is happening. I've read the "signs" of depression so, I know where those are coming from. But, what about the being paranoid, wake up at night soaked in sweat but, don't know why. When I drive I am almost overwhelmed with panic.(It's like that when I ride in the car too just not so bad) I've had about 8-10 hours of sleep since Sunday. I feel like I'm not in control of my thoughts and emotions. I feel like I don't even control my life. I hate all of this. I really, really hate it. I'm so scared because I don't know what's going on with me. I don't know when or if it will stop.
>
> So, what I need to know is what is going on with me? Why was I just mildly depressed 6 months ago and then very depressed a week ago and now I'm....I don't know. I'm a mess! My family and friends really don't understand what's going on so they are really not much help. My docter hasn't told me anything, I don't even know if HE knows what he's doing. Is this all from prozac withdrawls or is it from the side effects of Wellbutrin Sr. Or am I just really going crazy? I need to know...I have to know because I can't stay like this, but I don't know how to stop it. Please, if someone knows or can relate with some of this, tell me what I need to do. Thanks for being here to get this all out. It's nice to know that there are people out there willing to take the time to read and respond to other people. So...Thanks!!Tawna, I hope you've called your pdoc and let him know how you're feeling and that you're having a hard time, because it sounds like you need his help right now. Having been on several meds and knowing how frustrating and scary it can be to keep changing from drug to drug (not knowing what will happen next and feeling like a guinea pig), I feel for you. Please call your pdoc right away and ask for a consultation from him. Hang in there!--Cindy W
Posted by Sigolene on October 5, 2000, at 14:13:52
In reply to HELP!!!! I don't know what to do!!!, posted by Tawna Baier on October 5, 2000, at 2:26:36
To my opinion, what you describe is probably due to both: your depression + prozac withdrawal. I think that when prozac effect will be finished you feel better. Then you could try Wellbutrin again but with very small dosage, and see in the following 2 or 3 days how you are. If you are not worse you can carry on. You probably know that an AD need about 15 day to be effective on depression. But you have side effect already at the beginning. If i can advise you something, never take the full dosage of a new med the first day, increase slowly to avoid any horrible adverse reaction.
Courage!
Sigolene
> Hey,
> This is my first time ever leaving a message on here but, I really need some advice. About 6 months ago I was put on Paxil for mild depression and panic attacks. I became worse than I was before I started it. I was so tired and had no motivation to do anything. After 6 weeks on the Paxil my Dr. took me off it and started me on Prozac. At first, I loved it....I didn't feel wonderful but it gave me a little energy and a little hope that I was going to get better. After about a month it all went down hill from there. I started getting tired and withdrawn again. My thoughts, emotions,actions...just everything got worse. I tried to hide it though and kept saying "The prozac helped before and if I take it long enough it will again." Wrong!!! I stayed on the prozac for 4 months before I couldn't hide what I was going through anymore. I was extremly tired all of the time, either I couldn't sleep(due to RLS) or it was a very disturbed sleep that really didn't do me any good. I would start crying and it seemed like i couldn't stop. I lost contact with most of my friend and a lot of my family. It was awful. I went to the Dr. last Thursday(9-28) and he took me off of the prozac and put me on Wellbutrin SR and recommended that I start seeing a clinical counsler. I asked him if it would be ok to stop the prozac "cold turkey" and he said "yeah, you should be fine." Well, I'm not!!! I'm miserable. 3 days after I stopped the prozac and started the wellbutrin sr, I got this headache that seemed to be right in between my eyes. The next day(last Mon.10-1) the headache was still there and only got worse. Nothing I took would help it. My hands started shaking real bad and I started to tremble. I became extremly agitated and would get mad over nothing. I couldn't think, it seemed like nothing made sense and the more I tried the more upset I got and ended up crying. I called my Dr. on Tues.(10-2) but, he was not in because it was his half day. So, I just got worse all day. I tried to drive and I couldn't!! I almost immediatley got very panicked....i had to concentrate on my breathing, I got this tingling/numb feeling all over and I literally felt like I was going to pass out or just completley freak out at any moment. I called my pharmacist and she was shocked that my Dr. just had me drop the prozac. She said my symptoms could be withdrawls or a side effect of the wellbutrin. I talked to my docter today(Wed. 10-3) and he told me to stop taking the Wellbutrin SR for a week to allow a little time for some of the prozac to get out of my system, then start the Wellbutrin back. And that was it!! So, I have really NO idea what's going on with me. I'm on a drug off a drug and so on. I feel worse now than I ever have! I have all these strange, new symptoms that all seemed to start at once and I don't know why, how to deal with it or how to stop it!! I have a 2 year old and I couldn't even take care of him today. (Thank God for Grandmothers!!) I feel like I'm hanging from a cliff trying so hard to hold on but knowing that i'm gonna fall soon. If that makes sense. I think the worst thing is not knowing why all this is happening. I've read the "signs" of depression so, I know where those are coming from. But, what about the being paranoid, wake up at night soaked in sweat but, don't know why. When I drive I am almost overwhelmed with panic.(It's like that when I ride in the car too just not so bad) I've had about 8-10 hours of sleep since Sunday. I feel like I'm not in control of my thoughts and emotions. I feel like I don't even control my life. I hate all of this. I really, really hate it. I'm so scared because I don't know what's going on with me. I don't know when or if it will stop.
>
> So, what I need to know is what is going on with me? Why was I just mildly depressed 6 months ago and then very depressed a week ago and now I'm....I don't know. I'm a mess! My family and friends really don't understand what's going on so they are really not much help. My docter hasn't told me anything, I don't even know if HE knows what he's doing. Is this all from prozac withdrawls or is it from the side effects of Wellbutrin Sr. Or am I just really going crazy? I need to know...I have to know because I can't stay like this, but I don't know how to stop it. Please, if someone knows or can relate with some of this, tell me what I need to do. Thanks for being here to get this all out. It's nice to know that there are people out there willing to take the time to read and respond to other people. So...Thanks!!
Posted by Nibor on October 5, 2000, at 14:24:07
In reply to Re: HELP!!!! I don't know what to do!!!, posted by Sigolene on October 5, 2000, at 14:13:52
Hi, Tawna
Too often ADs are given by physicians and sometimes even psychiatrists without some counseling/therapy going along with it. Then the patient has problems with the meds plus the initial depression---and sometimes it's the particular drug that's the problem, but not always. At least you did get advised to see a therapist finally.
I think it's better to start with the talk therapy, let someone get to know a little about what's going on, then have the therapist and an MD work on the right med for you.
Don't give up. Find a therapist you like and he or she can help you figure out what to do now.
Nibor
Posted by JohnL on October 6, 2000, at 3:05:53
In reply to HELP!!!! I don't know what to do!!!, posted by Tawna Baier on October 5, 2000, at 2:26:36
Geez Tawna,
I can sure relate. And how. I'm so sorry you are going through this. But it does get better. Really!So what's going on? Well, first please understand that there are many brain chemical causes of depression. Low serotonin is just one of ten I think of. That's what things like Paxil or Prozac fix. It is the main cause of depression, but still, it's only one of ten possibilities. And statistically, only about 30% of people find total relief with one of them. So why do doctors focus so much on these meds? Good question. I don't know. I think they think it's because the side effect profile is better, or they look better statistically, or whatever. But what I'm saying is there are lots of other things in your brain that can cause depression besides low serotonin.
If low serotonin was the problem, then almost surely either Paxil or Prozac would have worked better than they did. Your serotonin is probably OK, and that's why those meds didn't do much except give you side effects. Wellbutrin was an obvious next choice, but I think most of what you are feeling right now is due to Wellbutrin being the wrong med also. The panic, the paranoia, agitation, getting mad over nothing, and all the rest...that's the Wellbutrin. Prozac leaves your system very slowly. It is half gone in a week and not completely gone for at least a month. It is not likely the problem. Wellbutrin is. Everything you described are classic Wellbutrin side effects lifted right off the pages of the Physician's Desk Reference book.
I have some doubts about your doctor's expertise in psychiatry. I say that because you were told to seek counseling. That's what they will commonly say as a way out, when they themselves are stumped but don't want to admit it. Good doctors don't take your poor responses to medications personally, and they don't allow them to cause confusion, but instead use them to guide their decisions in figuring out what chemistry is involved with your symptoms and what medications might work better. Antidepressants only increase neurotransmitter levels. There are plenty of other things that could be wrong. Your transmitter levels might be fine. It could be something else.
When antidepressants are disappointing (especially if you've tried 2 or 3 SSRIS like you have, and Wellbutrin) other psychiatric drugs often work better. Just thinking out loud, the antipsychotics Zyprexa or Risperdal make good sense, based on your description of how you responded to your medications. Your responses provide clues. One of my favorite approaches when antidepressants are disappointing is to use a small dose antipsychotic with a small dose stimulant. Something like Zyprexa at dinner, and Ritalin or Adderall during the day. They both work well on depression, when antidepressants didn't, and they counteract each other's side effects. Other avenues might be Depakote, Tegretol, Lamictal, or Neurontin. These mood stabilizers can cure depression if chemical/electrical instability in the brain is the problem. You don't need to show any signs of bipolar or mania for these to be effective treatments.
Anyway, I'm rambling. If I were in your shoes, I would insist on trying other psychiatric medications besides antidepressants. It's time. Complete cure is possible if and when the right drug targets the real problem. For the time being though, you might find you actually do better without the Wellbutrin, and maybe just a little Prozac, until you decide what's next. Dissolve the powder from a Prozac capsule in juice, stir it, drink 1/4 or 1/2 of it, save the rest in the fridge for the next day. Sometimes just a little Prozac works a lot better. At least for now that might make the most sense, until you can see the doctor or get a different one.
Most people are either not knowledgable or comfortable with trying medications from other countries. But if you are open to that, I would suggest getting Amisulpride and Adrafinil. Either of these alone, or both combined, could likely work far better than anything your doctor has access to. I've tried everything. These two are my alltime favorites. If you are interested and would like guidance with these meds, myself and others here would be glad to help you out. Believe it or not, other countries have some safe depression medications that blow our FDA approved medications in the weeds, with far far fewer side effects, if any. Just an option to be aware of. The world is a big place. There are a lot of good things out there.
John
Posted by MK1 on October 6, 2000, at 20:36:56
In reply to HELP!!!! I don't know what to do!!!, posted by Tawna Baier on October 5, 2000, at 2:26:36
I also stopped Prozac cold turkey, and even though theoretically it's OK it was a bad idea for me. After two months off Prozac I started getting anxiety attacks and then dipped into the darkest depression I have ever experienced. Also from my experience with Wellbutrin I can tell you that it can definitely cause agitation and irritability most likely from the dopamine effect. Talk to your doctor about weaning off the Prozac and Wellbutrin and maybe trying another med. For me I found Serzone to be quite helpful particularly for the anxiety and sleep problems.
God bless.
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