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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Ali on August 13, 2000, at 23:39:05
Anyone heard of a book with this title? Apparently written by a Harvard Psychiatrist alleging (again) that SSRI's (i.e. Proxac, Paxil etc.) cause brain damage, are over/mis-used etc.I see shades of Dr.Peter Breggin and the 'anti-psychiatrists'.Any opinions?Also, there has been a recent class action lawsuit filed against the American Psychiatric Association and Novartis (a big drug company) alleging that they conspired to 'create' the diagnosis of ADHD to sell Ritalin. This too seems to be along the same lines i.e Psychiatric drugs are over/mis-prescribed and do more damage than good. What do you all think?
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 14, 2000, at 0:38:47
In reply to Prozac Backlash, posted by Ali on August 13, 2000, at 23:39:05
> Anyone heard of a book with this title?
Funny you should ask! This radio show called me last week, and after I talked to them I went to their web site to try to get a better idea of what kind of show they were. Archives of their broadcasts were there, and the one I picked to sample:
http://www.theconnection.org/archive/2000/04/0410b.shtml
happened to be with this author. He had his message, which he wanted to get out, but I thought his overall point of view was reasonably balanced.
Bob
Posted by Kath on August 14, 2000, at 16:28:33
In reply to Prozac Backlash, posted by Ali on August 13, 2000, at 23:39:05
Hi Ali - What kind of brain damage with SSIR's?
I take Celexa & it makes me edgy to hear brain damage...
Kath
>
> Anyone heard of a book with this title? Apparently written by a Harvard Psychiatrist alleging (again) that SSRI's (i.e. Proxac, Paxil etc.) cause brain damage, are over/mis-used etc.I see shades of Dr.Peter Breggin and the 'anti-psychiatrists'.Any opinions?
>
> Also, there has been a recent class action lawsuit filed against the American Psychiatric Association and Novartis (a big drug company) alleging that they conspired to 'create' the diagnosis of ADHD to sell Ritalin. This too seems to be along the same lines i.e Psychiatric drugs are over/mis-prescribed and do more damage than good. What do you all think?
Posted by Cam W. on August 14, 2000, at 20:36:05
In reply to SSRI's Brain Damage? » Ali, posted by Kath on August 14, 2000, at 16:28:33
Kath - I have not heard or read anything that suggests that SSRIs cause brain damage. Neither have I heard that other currently available antidepressant have caused brain damage.
The only thing that I have heard (at a presentation) was that since the introduction of effective antidepressants (esp. MAOIs and TCAs) may be implicated in the increased incidence of bipolar disorder since the Second World War. I have been unable to find any corroborating evidence of this. I believe that the presenter was thinking out loud when he said this.
When someone says that a drug may cause a certain effect over the long term, they should provide evidence to support their theory. SSRIs have been on the market for about 20 years. So far there have been no indications of SSRIs causing any sort of brain damage.
There is a longitudinal (ie long term) study that is ongoing that is studying the children of moms who took Prozac while they were pregnant. The first of these are now in their 20s and, so far, these kids have not displayed anymore mental disorders than would be expected by chance. It seems to me that if an SSRI were to do any damage to a brain, it would more likely occur when that brain is developing. We have not seen this.
TCAs and MAOIs have been around longer. These antidepressants have far more potentially harmful side effects. Still, there have been no long term brain damage seen when these medications were taken appropriately.
The above is my take on the situation. I could be wrong, but for the most part, I think my statements are accurate and verifiable.
Also, "Prozac Backlash" has drawn criticism from all corners of the psychiatric community.
Hope this helps - Cam.
Posted by dj on August 14, 2000, at 22:17:20
In reply to Re: SSRI's Brain Damage? » Kath, posted by Cam W. on August 14, 2000, at 20:36:05
> Also, "Prozac Backlash" has drawn criticism >from all corners of the psychiatric community.
Criticism for what portion and why? Dr. Bob indicated that the author's view appeared balanced...
Posted by Cam W. on August 15, 2000, at 0:43:30
In reply to Re: Critque of PB - Cam? Dr. Bob?, posted by dj on August 14, 2000, at 22:17:20
dj - Here's a couple of critiques:
http://holysmoke.org/cos/prozacbl.htm
or
http://salonivorytower.com/health/feature/2000/05/017/backlash/index1.htmlThese are just 2 that I had at my fingertips. I can get better ones, if you like - Cam
Posted by Cam W. on August 15, 2000, at 0:49:06
In reply to Re: Critque of PB - Cam? Dr. Bob?, posted by Cam W. on August 15, 2000, at 0:43:30
> dj - Here's a couple of critiques:
>
> http://holysmoke.org/cos/prozacbl.htm
> or
> http://www.salonivorytower.com/health/feature/2000/05/017/backlash/index1.html
Oops - forgot the www. in the salonivory tower article - Cam
Posted by dj on August 15, 2000, at 6:14:53
In reply to Re: website mistake fixed, posted by Cam W. on August 15, 2000, at 0:49:06
>http://www.salonivorytower.com/health/feature/2000/05/017/backlash/index1.html
>
>
> Oops - forgot the www. in the salonivory tower article - Cam
You must have forgotten something else too, as this one does not work either...
Posted by Cam W. on August 15, 2000, at 6:37:22
In reply to Re: website mistake fixed, posted by dj on August 15, 2000, at 6:14:53
Okay, try going to http://google.com
Type in "Prozac Backlash" with quotation marks. Do a google search. Go to page 5 and click on article at the top of the page (Salon Health & Body/Prozac indignation).You can also sift through other reviews on Prozac Backlash, both by the public and by health professionals. - Cam
Posted by Kath on August 15, 2000, at 8:51:33
In reply to Re: SSRI's Brain Damage? » Kath, posted by Cam W. on August 14, 2000, at 20:36:05
Once again, Thanks Cam,
That makes me feel better. I had already asked my doctor & pharmacist before I started taking Celexa & they both assured me that as far as they knew there was no reason to be concerned.
I would like to discuss my daughter's situation with you. She has taken the MAOI, Manerix a couple of times before & stopped both times because she felt better. (She took if for numerous months.) This time she has taken 225 mg pills a.m. for 2 months. When it was upped to 300mg am dose (to avoid sleep disturbance) she had nausea & vomitting as well as insomnia. All this time she wasn't feeling any better, whereas the other times it worked like a charm. The dose has been upped again slightly (not sure how much) & she says she thinks she's feeling a LITTLE better, but nauseated.
A couple of times over the last couple of months she got very ill & was vomitting repeatedly. She wondered if this could be caused by Manerix or by possibly low blood sugar, although once it was right after eating. Her doctor couldn't figure it out & she's just had complete blood work done & everything's normal.
She doesn't know what to do. For some reason she's dead against taking SSRI's - I think she feels they haven't been around long enough to know what long-term effect they have on the brain (I'll share your info with her on that issue). You mentioned potential worse long-term effects from MAOI's - what are the details on that?
If she continues Manerix, would it be appropriate for her to add SAMe 'til the Manerix kicks in? Can people take SAMe by itself for depression? Do you know how it works? She's interested in herbal alternatives for depression.
Any thoughts on all this?Thanks, Cam Hugs, Kath
> Kath - I have not heard or read anything that suggests that SSRIs cause brain damage. Neither have I heard that other currently available antidepressant have caused brain damage.
>
> The only thing that I have heard (at a presentation) was that since the introduction of effective antidepressants (esp. MAOIs and TCAs) may be implicated in the increased incidence of bipolar disorder since the Second World War. I have been unable to find any corroborating evidence of this. I believe that the presenter was thinking out loud when he said this.
>
> When someone says that a drug may cause a certain effect over the long term, they should provide evidence to support their theory. SSRIs have been on the market for about 20 years. So far there have been no indications of SSRIs causing any sort of brain damage.
>
> There is a longitudinal (ie long term) study that is ongoing that is studying the children of moms who took Prozac while they were pregnant. The first of these are now in their 20s and, so far, these kids have not displayed anymore mental disorders than would be expected by chance. It seems to me that if an SSRI were to do any damage to a brain, it would more likely occur when that brain is developing. We have not seen this.
>
> TCAs and MAOIs have been around longer. These antidepressants have far more potentially harmful side effects. Still, there have been no long term brain damage seen when these medications were taken appropriately.
>
> The above is my take on the situation. I could be wrong, but for the most part, I think my statements are accurate and verifiable.
>
> Also, "Prozac Backlash" has drawn criticism from all corners of the psychiatric community.
>
> Hope this helps - Cam.
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 15, 2000, at 9:00:08
In reply to Re: website mistake fixed-sigh » dj, posted by Cam W. on August 15, 2000, at 6:37:22
> Okay, try going to http://google.com
> Type in "Prozac Backlash" with quotation marks. Do a google search.I tried that, and guess what turned up? Psycho-Babble posts! :-)
Unfortunately, however, the thread that came up included an appearance by Hitler Youth. Speaking of minority opinions...
Has anyone else listened to the recording of that Connection show? It begins with an interview, it's not call-in until later. Or, I suppose, actually looked at the book?
Bob
Posted by danf on August 15, 2000, at 9:44:38
In reply to Re: Prozac Backlash, posted by Dr. Bob on August 14, 2000, at 0:38:47
one can read the first chapter of "Prozac Backlash" online at this web site if you have adobe acrobat reader installed.
the file is in .pdf format.
http://www.glenmullen.com/prozacBacklash.html
Posted by kellyR. on August 15, 2000, at 14:56:19
In reply to Prozac Backlash, posted by Ali on August 13, 2000, at 23:39:05
>
> Anyone heard of a book with this title? Apparently written by a Harvard Psychiatrist alleging (again) that SSRI's (i.e. Proxac, Paxil etc.) cause brain damage, are over/mis-used etc.I see shades of Dr.Peter Breggin and the 'anti-psychiatrists'.Any opinions?
>
> Also, there has been a recent class action lawsuit filed against the American Psychiatric Association and Novartis (a big drug company) alleging that they conspired to 'create' the diagnosis of ADHD to sell Ritalin. This too seems to be along the same lines i.e Psychiatric drugs are over/mis-prescribed and do more damage than good. What do you all think?The author name is Dr. Joseph Glenmullen.
Posted by Cam W. on August 15, 2000, at 18:42:20
In reply to Re: SSRI's Brain Damage? » Cam W., posted by Kath on August 15, 2000, at 8:51:33
Kath - Just to clarify. I meant that MAOI and TCA side effects, in general, can be more harmful (heart problems-both, profound sedation and dryness-TCAs, tyramine-induced hypertensive crisis-MAOIs). The only long term effects were I have heard of were from Dr.E.Roy Chengappa from U of Pittsburgh, who, at a presentation on Topamax, said that perhaps the increase in the incidence of bipolar disorder since the Second World War may be due to iatrogenic causes (ie caused by the use of antidepressants). But I haven't found any evidence to support this claim.
As for the nausea, I don't know if the Manerix™ is causing it. You do expect it in the first month of Manerix therapy, but after the serotonin receptors (5HT-3) in the intestines desensitize to the effects of the Manerix, this should stop. Sorry, I don't have an immediate answer of this, but I will keep my ear to the ground for you.
My best to you and yours - Cam
Posted by Kath on August 16, 2000, at 9:58:15
In reply to Re: SSRI's Brain Damage? » Kath, posted by Cam W. on August 15, 2000, at 18:42:20
> Kath - Just to clarify. I meant that MAOI and TCA side effects, in general, can be more harmful (heart problems-both, profound sedation and dryness-TCAs, tyramine-induced hypertensive crisis-MAOIs). The only long term effects were I have heard of were from Dr.E.Roy Chengappa from U of Pittsburgh, who, at a presentation on Topamax, said that perhaps the increase in the incidence of bipolar disorder since the Second World War may be due to iatrogenic causes (ie caused by the use of antidepressants). But I haven't found any evidence to support this claim.
>
> As for the nausea, I don't know if the Manerix™ is causing it. You do expect it in the first month of Manerix therapy, but after the serotonin receptors (5HT-3) in the intestines desensitize to the effects of the Manerix, this should stop. Sorry, I don't have an immediate answer of this, but I will keep my ear to the ground for you.
>
> My best to you and yours - Cam
>
This is the end of the thread.
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