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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Rach on August 6, 2000, at 11:12:23
See the above thread for what the actual questions and answers were. I'm not going to single out anyone personally, and I am definately not going to view or speak about anyone's ideas in a negative light. I'm just going to present a synopsis of what was answered.
All up, 14 people answered some of my questions (including myself). Only three people chose not to answer all questions, and both times it was the question about what they believe caused their depression mentally. I am glad, though, that so many people had recognised their triggers, and were able to share that with us all.
The first question about mental vs. physical was very interesting. Most either weren't sure, or believed dep. to be a result of a combination of things, both mentally and physically. Some people mentioned stress as the main 'mental' trigger. A good point that was bought up was about humans being biological creatures. I admit that mental & physical were not the best choice of words, but I could not think of a better way to put it - and I think everyone got my meaning. Personally (yes, I am going to add a personal view here: I'm not attacking anyone's views, just presenting an opposite opinion that happens to be mine!), I'm not sure about the 100% biological creatures - is our soul/spirit/personality/(insert your similar choice of word) biological or not? I lean towards my soul not being biological, and therefore something non-physical to act in triggering depression. It is definately something for us all to think about.
Everyone had at some stage been to counselling and also had been on medication for dep. Most were still doing both.
Most people indicated that stress factored in the onset of dep., and that family also was a major factor. Abuse, lack of trust, lack of love - basically I think most people (correct me if I am wrong) were talking about the continued impression of worthlessness that they got from their families, leading to self esteem issues, eventually leading to dep. (with other factors along the way, of course)
All 14 people answered that they had blood relatives with depression. A small sample size, I know, but let's pretend it's not, to consider some questions. Does this result indicate a hereditary component of dep? Perhaps. Or is it more likely that there is so much pressure in society today to 'have it all' that dep. is becoming rampant when we do not live up to ideals? Or, is dep. the new-age virus; do we 'catch' dep. from close family or friends? (Let me explain this more. Imagine how hard it is for your spouse/friend/children to deal with your dep. If you are easily irritable, angry, upset, or simply have issues to deal with, this makes it hard on the people around you. I'm sure most of us know this. If someone around you was constantly questioning their worth, you may find yourself becoming miserable because they are miserable, and you empathise and feel their pain. You share that pain. You may also begin questioning your own worth, because if you love that person, you may think 'This person who is so amazing and I who I love thinks they are worthless. I must be even more worthless, because I admire, respect & love this person'. In other words, you have caught the depression from your love. Hope that makes sense). Probably, to be less silly, I should just say, perhaps this just indicates that dep. is passed on to those who share the pain.
Remission vs. Recovery. Very varied responses to this - although most people liked remission. I am extremely happy to note that almost everyone was hopeful of getting to a state of wellness, with some have the firm belief they would get there (at the time of posting, anyway.)
Thanks again to everyone for answering these q's. Hope you all were able to gain something from this 'exercise', even if just a little more knowledge about yourself.
Peace all round,
Rach
Posted by dj on August 6, 2000, at 15:17:04
In reply to The compilation of my 7 depression questions, posted by Rach on August 6, 2000, at 11:12:23
>I lean towards my soul not being biological, and therefore something non-physical to act in triggering depression. It is definately >something for us all to think about.
Tis. Harder to deal directly with than the biological impact of environmental and perceived stressors.
Just I managed to listen to the whole of Dr Robert Sapolsky's on line discussion on stress and memory:
http://www.exploratorium.edu/memory/robertsapolsky.html, It's worth a listen. Near the end in Q and A he particulary focuses on perception and the ability to make adjustments to what we pereive as stressors being key, which is where counselling or group work can help. And as he rightfully notes a social support network is a consistent indicator of how well one deals with dis-ease of whatever sort and recuperation when you cut away all other factors.Sante!
dj
Posted by shar on August 6, 2000, at 15:47:28
In reply to Soul and Environmental factors..., posted by dj on August 6, 2000, at 15:17:04
Rach,
Thanks so much for your hard work and cogent responses when you summarized your results.I think I was most surprised by the family history issue. Wow! That is very interesting.
Well done (applause).
Shar
Posted by JohnL on August 7, 2000, at 4:29:12
In reply to The compilation of my 7 depression questions, posted by Rach on August 6, 2000, at 11:12:23
That's a cool survey you did. You might consider re-asking the same questions maybe once a month or so to get more responses. A total of 100 or more responses would be desirable from a statistical validity point of view.
My own theories go like this:
Biological depression...It either strikes out of the blue with no warning or apparent cause, or it is laying dormant waiting for a trigger. The person is predisposed, and all it takes is some stress or a traumatic event to shake up the fragile predisposed brain chemistry. Then the feelings of guilt and worthlessness come into play. At this point, both psychological and biological variables feed upon each other in a relentless snowball effect. It is impossible at this point to blame either biology or psychology, because they have both become entwined like two vines growing together.
Nonbiological depression...It is a normal reaction to a traumatic event, such as a death in the family, loss of a job, loss of a lover, etc. The person will feel all the same symptoms as biological depression, except that they will remit much faster, and will not snowball into a complex blend of bio and psycho. It may last days, weeks, or months, but it won't go on year after year as it would if there was biological predisposition. Either counseling and/or time will allow the patient to emerge from the gloom.
But when an underlying genetic biological factor is involved, unwinding those tangled vines is not an easy task. It's impossible to tell whether the depression caused the guilt/worthlessness, or the guilt/worthlessness caused the depression. Can't tell. It's like trying to find a corner in a circle. Just go round and round. It takes strong intervention to stop the momentum of that huge snowball, and to rip apart those entwined vines. Sometimes medication can do that alone, sometimes psychotherapy can do it, and sometimes a combo can do it.
But I've seen it happen over and over...those who fail but keep trying nearly always succeed eventually, one way or the other.
John
Posted by Rach on August 7, 2000, at 8:14:00
In reply to Re: The compilation of my 7 depression questions, posted by JohnL on August 7, 2000, at 4:29:12
Thanks for your input, John! A very good idea - posting them every month or so. I'll give it a try and see what happens.
Posted by dj on August 7, 2000, at 10:40:44
In reply to John, posted by Rach on August 7, 2000, at 8:14:00
> Thanks for your input, John! A very good idea - posting them every month or so. I'll give it a >try and see what happens.
Maybe you could start some thoughtful discussion on soul by outlining what you mean by it and how might it differ from spririt or are they the same thing in your view. Certainly I see depression as one of the biggest challenges to my spirit, which I consider along the lines of my worldview.
Sante!
dj
Posted by Noa on August 9, 2000, at 12:31:21
In reply to Re: The compilation of my 7 depression questions, posted by JohnL on August 7, 2000, at 4:29:12
Rach, you could also post a poll at the psycho-babble-tips site at egroups. There is a poll page, look to the left, where the links connection is.
This is the end of the thread.
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