![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Greg on July 16, 2000, at 10:26:09
Morning All,
Since my back surgery in 1998, I have had insomnia. I believe it was triggered by the narcotics I was taking for the pain (Fentanyl, Norco, Soma). I would wake up 10-12 times every night. I have been off the narcotics for about 5 months now, but the insomnia continues. There is a difference though. During the week when I know I have to get up for work, I wake frequently, my mind starts to race, anxiety is real bad. I start planning my day, thinking about my friends, etc. But on the weekends (Friday and Saturday nights) I sleep better. I also tend to medicate with my Ambien a little heavier occasionally on the weekend which may have something to do with it.
I'm curious if any of you think that part of my sleeping problems might be due to the additional stress of having to function socially during the week, but not so much on weekends? I have been experiencing some social anxiety lately, which is a new thing for me.
Do any of you experience anything like this? Do you sleep better at certain times than at others? Suggestions? Comments? Ideas? All feedback would be gratefully appreciated.
Thanks to all, and have a peaceful day!
Greg
Posted by danf on July 16, 2000, at 13:29:35
In reply to Disorderly Sleep - Comments and a question?, posted by Greg on July 16, 2000, at 10:26:09
Greg,
Narcotic analgesics play a role for a while. 5 months later, you should be past them.
Perhaps you are medicating the anxiety better with the higher dose of ambien, as you suggested ?
Otherwise, it sounds as if you may have depression playing a role. Prolonged anxiety & depression run hand in hand.
The kind of sleep pattern you describe is not good at all. One should look at a cause for the poor sleep pattern. Ambien is OK for a few nights. For months ? You need to look for another cause. ? sleep apnea, depression, anxiety ?
I don't think your sleep will improve until the base cause is addressed.
Best wishes
Posted by tina on July 16, 2000, at 14:49:56
In reply to Disorderly Sleep - Comments and a question?, posted by Greg on July 16, 2000, at 10:26:09
Greg: You KNOW I can sympathise with lack of sleep. If you find a cure for it, let me know.
Until then, take care and maybe you just need a really good massage every night before bed. Anyone who can do that for you?
Luv ya
Tina
Posted by Rach on July 17, 2000, at 1:38:11
In reply to Re: Disorderly Sleep - Comments and a question?, posted by tina on July 16, 2000, at 14:49:56
Hi Greg,
I can also definately sympathise with your lack of sleep. I agree with danf that you need to discover the underlying causes of your sleeping problems, and it certainly sounds to me that anxiety is a part of the problem - even if it is just you feeling anxious about your anxiety! You need to recognise the roots of your anxiety, so you can prevent or lessen the behaviours and feelings associated with the anxiety.
In the meanwhile, I found a few things that helped me. Never go to bed with the attitude that you won't sleep. I did that for so long, and it is the best way to ensure you don't sleep. You need to go to bed believing you will fall asleep. Very hard, I know. Also definately try the massage. Relaxing, even if it doesn't help you sleep! Also, if you don't have any allergies or anything like that, you could try using an electric oil burner and burn some soothing oils, like lavender or orange, or a sleep/stress relief blend. You needn't worry about having to turn off an electrical burner because it won't cause a fire (I've actually accidentally left mine on for five days and nothing happened). That was very helpful for me, just soothing and restful.
Most of all, try not to get frustrated when you don't sleep, and try not to get worried about your lack of sleep. Otherwise it turns into one huge cycle, as I'm sure you know. If you are hitting the pillow in frustration, get up and do something very boring. Hopefully, you will bore yourself to bed!
Just some general tips, I hope it all gets better for you.
Hugs, Rach
Posted by noa on July 17, 2000, at 7:09:59
In reply to Disorderly Sleep - Comments and a question?, posted by Greg on July 16, 2000, at 10:26:09
Perhaps a sleep study will be helpful?
Posted by Greg on July 17, 2000, at 7:33:02
In reply to Re: Disorderly Sleep - Comments and a question?, posted by noa on July 17, 2000, at 7:09:59
Noa,
Really wouldn't know where to start for a sleep study, any suggestions? Also, I had asked you about sleep apnea recently but never got a response, could you tell me a little about it?
Hope you're day is going well,
Greg> Perhaps a sleep study will be helpful?
Posted by CarolAnn on July 17, 2000, at 11:01:05
In reply to Re: Disorderly Sleep - Comments and a question? » noa, posted by Greg on July 17, 2000, at 7:33:02
Greg,
this is what I tried to post yesterday: My husband has the same type of sleep problem you describe during times when he has too much going on at work. What helps him is keeping pen and paper by the bed(FYI there are pens with lights on them,if you can't find one, I have an extra I can send you). Doug writes down anything that comes into his head as he is trying to sleep, this gives him the security of knowing that he won't forget the stuff in the morning, so he doesn't have to keep 'thinking' about it in the middle of the night.
Another thing you might try(the theory being that getting it on paper gets it out of your head), is taking time each evening to write out exactly what will be going on the next day. Write down what you have to do, who you have to see, any decisions that have been or need to be made, ect. I think that outlining all the people you will be interacting with, will also help with the feelings of social phobia. It's like when they tell athletes to visualize playing and winning the game, so they won't be as nervous. It's like a practice session for your mind. I really think this stuff will help you, because it doesn't really seem, at this point, that there is a cause for the insomnia. It seems (which is very common) that you've developed anxiety about trying to sleep, and the pressure of 'needing to sleep' in order to function well at work only adds to the anxiety.
Also, while trying the above suggestions, try the cliche's as well: do nothing in the bedroom except sleep and sex, exercise early in the day, plan very calming activities for the hour before bedtime, don't pressure yourself to sleep-if you can't, get up and do something that is quietly pleasurable, limit caffeine, ect.
Boy do I sound like I know what I'm talking about or what? Well, you're my friend, so if none of it helps, I know you will appreciate the thought behind it all! Sweet Dreams! Carol
Posted by Greg on July 17, 2000, at 11:45:09
In reply to Re: Disorderly Sleep - Comments and a question? » Greg, posted by CarolAnn on July 17, 2000, at 11:01:05
Carol,
I've never thought of this, sounds like something worth trying. My depression is getting better, but the anxiety seems to be getting worse. I do like to read when I can't sleep but I get so involved in my books that hours have passed before I even know it. Have you tried and/or had any luck with herbal remedies. I've the "sleepy time" teas, ect., but nothing seems to work.
I have ever mentioned that this depression/anxiety thing really sucks???
Thanks so much for your help.
Hugs,
Greg> Greg,
> this is what I tried to post yesterday: My husband has the same type of sleep problem you describe during times when he has too much going on at work. What helps him is keeping pen and paper by the bed(FYI there are pens with lights on them,if you can't find one, I have an extra I can send you). Doug writes down anything that comes into his head as he is trying to sleep, this gives him the security of knowing that he won't forget the stuff in the morning, so he doesn't have to keep 'thinking' about it in the middle of the night.
> Another thing you might try(the theory being that getting it on paper gets it out of your head), is taking time each evening to write out exactly what will be going on the next day. Write down what you have to do, who you have to see, any decisions that have been or need to be made, ect. I think that outlining all the people you will be interacting with, will also help with the feelings of social phobia. It's like when they tell athletes to visualize playing and winning the game, so they won't be as nervous. It's like a practice session for your mind. I really think this stuff will help you, because it doesn't really seem, at this point, that there is a cause for the insomnia. It seems (which is very common) that you've developed anxiety about trying to sleep, and the pressure of 'needing to sleep' in order to function well at work only adds to the anxiety.
> Also, while trying the above suggestions, try the cliche's as well: do nothing in the bedroom except sleep and sex, exercise early in the day, plan very calming activities for the hour before bedtime, don't pressure yourself to sleep-if you can't, get up and do something that is quietly pleasurable, limit caffeine, ect.
> Boy do I sound like I know what I'm talking about or what? Well, you're my friend, so if none of it helps, I know you will appreciate the thought behind it all! Sweet Dreams! Carol
Posted by dove on July 21, 2000, at 13:37:26
In reply to Re: Disorderly Sleep - Comments and a question? » CarolAnn, posted by Greg on July 17, 2000, at 11:45:09
I know I've gone on and on about Melatonin for like forever, but it has really truly and literally been a life-saver for me. If my husband doesn't have any in the house he can't hardly fall asleep, just knowing that the option is there relieves most, if not all of his sleep-related anxiety.
My personal experiences with long-term insomnia, middle of the night wakings due to panic attacks, have been significantly dampened by the use of melatonin. If I swing even one "all-nighter" I tend to quickly transfer into overdrive, and not the pretty productive kind either.
I don't like the regular melatonin that you have to swallow as it seems to enhance morning depressive symptoms and can also leave that hang-over fog in your brain for half the day. I only take *Sublingual* Melatonin, the kind you let melt under your tongue, and it works rapidly. My husband and I both have been able to cut the dosage to 1/4 of what was required to do the job the old-fashioned way (going down the hatch for a visit with your stomach enzymes).
When I first started using it (and while I was on Prozac, Wellbutrin, and Adderall all at the same time) I would have to take another one if I woke in the middle of the night. But, I still was only taking 1-2mgs of the sublingual, and no morning fog and only normal depressive symptoms for being the non-morning person that I am :-)
I know a lot of people shy away from Melatonin, but I've followed the usage of Melatonin through the Autism community (who have utilized it for almost 30 years with *very* good results). Some say that the use of Melatonin as a sleep enhancing med in Autistic children actually improves their ability to handle outside stimuli.
Just some thoughts for you along with a big hug (((Greg))) :-) Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers!
dove
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.