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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Steve on June 20, 2000, at 21:23:50
I've been treated for several years for treatment resistant depression that
hasn't quite responded to any of the meds. My newest doctor, who knows his
stuff told me that my history of changing meds not infrequently has caused me
the sort of brain damage one would see in people who have abused illegal substances.Does anyone here have any input on his assertion?
Steve
Posted by danf on June 21, 2000, at 5:11:52
In reply to meds brain damage, posted by Steve on June 20, 2000, at 21:23:50
A convient copout by your doc.
Prolonged depression causes brain /chemical changes.
There is no scientific evidence that the meds have anywhere near the damaging effect that the disease has. There is some evidence that major psychotic meds can have long standing effects.
again the primary disease is worse.
Posted by JohnL on June 21, 2000, at 5:35:58
In reply to meds brain damage, posted by Steve on June 20, 2000, at 21:23:50
> I've been treated for several years for treatment resistant depression that
> hasn't quite responded to any of the meds. My newest doctor, who knows his
> stuff told me that my history of changing meds not infrequently has caused me
> the sort of brain damage one would see in people who have abused illegal substances.
>
> Does anyone here have any input on his assertion?
>
> SteveSteve,
Believe me, since my pdoc is into his 7th decade he's seen it all. I really appreciate his humble approach when he says, "Anything's possible. We just don't know." That's what he has to say about this topic as well.When a doctor makes a sweeping generalized statement like the one your doctor did, my curiosity flags always go up. And I have a bunch of questions to ponder.
What does he mean by "sort of" brain damage?
What does "sort" mean?
What EXACTLY was damaged?
How did the drug do that?
Which drug did it?
Is there a reputable source I can read more about this?
Is this clinical fact or clinical opinion?
Is frequent changing of meds at lowish starting doses really comparable to 'abuse' of medium to excessive doses illegal drugs?
Don't the words 'use' and 'abuse' have different meanings?
If we knew for sure prescriptions caused brain damage, would this not be a common FDA warning?
Why do patients with a history of dozens of meds (most short term due to intolerable side effects) go on to be completely well?I'll stop there, but I have a lot more curiosity questions that would have to be answered before I could buy a sweeping statement like that.
From an unprofessional point of view, it just seems logical to me that on the contrary, long term use versus short term use (regardless of frequency of changes) would cause more difficult to reverse alterations in the brain.
Sounds more like an excuse to me more than anything else. The curiosity flags are flying. I think most--not all--doctors have their own most comfortable ways to explain away failures so they can sleep at night. Others realize there are just too many unknowns. No sense losing sleep over those unknowns. Rather, focus on getting the patient well to the best of one's ability with no excuses for anything.
But when we get right down to the nitty gritty, there are thousands of people with drug histories just like yours and mine who have gone on to get completely well when they finally found their appropriate medication. No apparent brain damage there. Even if there was, it's irrelevent, because total normalcy has been achieved. It happens.
Posted by Theresa Pye on June 21, 2000, at 6:49:28
In reply to Re: meds brain damage, posted by JohnL on June 21, 2000, at 5:35:58
No one knows the long term side effects of these medications.
Theresa
> > I've been treated for several years for treatment resistant depression that
> > hasn't quite responded to any of the meds. My newest doctor, who knows his
> > stuff told me that my history of changing meds not infrequently has caused me
> > the sort of brain damage one would see in people who have abused illegal substances.
> >
> > Does anyone here have any input on his assertion?
> >
> > Steve
>
> Steve,
> Believe me, since my pdoc is into his 7th decade he's seen it all. I really appreciate his humble approach when he says, "Anything's possible. We just don't know." That's what he has to say about this topic as well.
>
> When a doctor makes a sweeping generalized statement like the one your doctor did, my curiosity flags always go up. And I have a bunch of questions to ponder.
>
> What does he mean by "sort of" brain damage?
> What does "sort" mean?
> What EXACTLY was damaged?
> How did the drug do that?
> Which drug did it?
> Is there a reputable source I can read more about this?
> Is this clinical fact or clinical opinion?
> Is frequent changing of meds at lowish starting doses really comparable to 'abuse' of medium to excessive doses illegal drugs?
> Don't the words 'use' and 'abuse' have different meanings?
> If we knew for sure prescriptions caused brain damage, would this not be a common FDA warning?
> Why do patients with a history of dozens of meds (most short term due to intolerable side effects) go on to be completely well?
>
> I'll stop there, but I have a lot more curiosity questions that would have to be answered before I could buy a sweeping statement like that.
>
> From an unprofessional point of view, it just seems logical to me that on the contrary, long term use versus short term use (regardless of frequency of changes) would cause more difficult to reverse alterations in the brain.
>
> Sounds more like an excuse to me more than anything else. The curiosity flags are flying. I think most--not all--doctors have their own most comfortable ways to explain away failures so they can sleep at night. Others realize there are just too many unknowns. No sense losing sleep over those unknowns. Rather, focus on getting the patient well to the best of one's ability with no excuses for anything.
>
> But when we get right down to the nitty gritty, there are thousands of people with drug histories just like yours and mine who have gone on to get completely well when they finally found their appropriate medication. No apparent brain damage there. Even if there was, it's irrelevent, because total normalcy has been achieved. It happens.
Posted by CarolAnn on June 21, 2000, at 9:18:19
In reply to meds brain damage, posted by Steve on June 20, 2000, at 21:23:50
Hey Steve, Here's my say:
As far as I'm concerned, my brain is already damaged, or I wouldn't be suffering from Depression, ADD, Anxiety, ect. So, if my brain is undergoing any weird changes from all my medications, well just maybe the new "damage" will at least be better then what I am already experiencing! CarolAnn
Posted by george O on June 21, 2000, at 15:50:30
In reply to meds brain damage, posted by Steve on June 20, 2000, at 21:23:50
> I've been treated for several years for treatment resistant depression that
> hasn't quite responded to any of the meds. My newest doctor, who knows his
> stuff told me that my history of changing meds not infrequently has caused me
> the sort of brain damage one would see in people who have abused illegal substances.
>
> Does anyone here have any input on his assertion?
>
> Steve
i believe i was damaged by maoi's but my patern was different. I experienced a robust initial response, after which i lapsed into a depression that has tended to be much worse. of coarse the use of lsd, ect during my teen years had already screwed me up some what. if you have not had any kind of traumatic crash i doubt that you have damage anywhere near that magnitude though.
Posted by Cynthia M. on June 21, 2000, at 22:24:17
In reply to i had some, posted by george O on June 21, 2000, at 15:50:30
If it is true that these drugs cause brain damage then what is the alternative? I certainlyfeel more sane and normal now that I have found stability. Before this I would have concurred that I was brain damaged. I feel the point is that you get where you will make certain sacrifices , whatever that may be, to obtain reasonable stability. I have done just that. To me and my family, it is worth every single pill I take.-Cynthia
This is the end of the thread.
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