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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Cecilia on June 13, 2000, at 3:23:31
Is there anyone out there who doesn`t respond to anti-depressants at all who has responded to anti-psychotics for depression? Some people seem to be having good results using them to "augment" but I`ve never had a response to augment. On John L.`s recommendation, I read Dr. Jensen`s book, and asked my pdoc about it, his opinion was that the the "quick trial" method made sense only for stimulants. In any case, I`ve had many quick trials (stopped because of intolerable side effects), and many more full length trials and I`ve never found anything that worked even a little bit. I`ve tried most antidepressants(16), including a MAOI (Nardil), I`ve tried mood stabilizers (lithium added to Zoloft, neurontin added to Celexa), I`ve tried a couple of stimulants (Ritalin, Dexedrine), I`ve tried thyroid augmentaion (definitely not pleasant if you don`t need extra thyroid), I`ve augmented a couple of AD`s with Buspar, I`ve tried SAM-e and St. John`s wort, I`ve tried combinations ((Welbutrin with Celexa, Nortriptyline with Zoloft). I haven`t tried an anti-psychotic and the potential side effects scare me. Like I said, my pdoc didn`t think the short trial idea made any sense for anything except stimulants, and he didn`t seem exactly optimistic about the idea of an antipsychotic doing anything for me, but I think he would let me try it if I want, it`s not as if anything he has suggested has helped. I guess I`ll probably ask to try Zyprexa, which Chris K. said was very helpful for intrusive negative thoughts. Believe me, I have plenty of those-overwhelming self-hate, reliving unpleasant memories etc. (Yes, I`ve had talk therapy, $40.000 wasted). Just curious if any one with depression has found Zyprexa or other atypical antipsychotic useful on it`s own.
Posted by ChrisK on June 13, 2000, at 7:38:06
In reply to Anti-psychotic drugs for depression, posted by Cecilia on June 13, 2000, at 3:23:31
Cecilia,
Sometimes I feel like the posterboy for Zyprexa but it really did help me get rid of lots of terrible thoughts. I don't know what would happen if you took it alone but it has augmented my AD's quite well.
I started it while taking Nortriptyline but now take it with Wellbutrin. I am fairly med resistant and have never felt side effects other than the weight gain and some mild sedation. I take it at night and get a good 8 hours of sleep.
You may want to start with 2.5 mg/day if your doctor will prescribe it for you. You may also want to look into Risperidal or Seroquel as alternatives. I wasn't successful with Risperidal due to over sedation and my pdoc steered me away from Seroquel because of side effects and my good reaction to Zyprexa.
I truly hope that you can find something that works best for you.
Chris
Posted by AndrewB on June 13, 2000, at 9:47:18
In reply to Anti-psychotic drugs for depression, posted by Cecilia on June 13, 2000, at 3:23:31
Amisulpride has helped me a lot. It is an atypical antipsychotic. One of the things it does for me is take away my negative thoughts and the overwhelming self hate.One reason to give an atypical antipsychotic a try is that they may work on a different part of the brain than you've targeted so far, that is, the dopamine receptors, especially the D2-D3 receptors. These antipsychotics, when used for depression, are all used in low doses (I think this is so, please let me know if this isn't the case), and act in a way that is almost a mirror image of what they act like at higher doses.
Amisulpride is not available in the US but may be ordered from overseas. Chris gives some good suggestions. If I were you I would try one of the antipsychotics he suggests. If you get any kind of good response from what you try, you should then consider trying amisulpride, because, in my mind, there is a good chance it will be more effective. For an info. piece on amisulpride email me at andrewb@seanet.com
Andrewb
Posted by judy1 on June 14, 2000, at 13:04:16
In reply to Re: Anti-psychotic drugs for depression, posted by ChrisK on June 13, 2000, at 7:38:06
Cecilia,
I've been on several anti-psychotics, however not for symptoms you're having- but I thought my reactions may help with your decision. The typicals, haldol, droperidol, and mellaril all caused intense sedation- they feel like a chemical restraint- but they will stop you from thinking. I also think zyprexa is very beneficial, but it is a "lard drug" and if gaining weight is a concern to you, you might consider that. I liked seroquel- it was a little sedating for me. As far as the most beneficial, that has been risperdal. My pdoc said 50% of people find it stimulating the other half sedating. I've had both reactions, but after a month or so, have had no side effects. Best of luck in finding the right one. Take care.
Posted by SLS on June 14, 2000, at 13:14:41
In reply to Re: Anti-psychotic drugs for depression, posted by judy1 on June 14, 2000, at 13:04:16
> As far as the most beneficial, that has been risperdal. My pdoc said 50% of people find it stimulating the other half sedating. I've had both reactions, but after a month or so, have had no side effects. Best of luck in finding the right one. Take care.
Hi Judy.How has Risperdal helped you?
Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by Anna P. on June 14, 2000, at 17:02:21
In reply to Re: Anti-psychotic drugs for depression, posted by SLS on June 14, 2000, at 13:14:41
> >
>
> How has Risperdal helped you?
>
> I've heard that Rispedral can trigger the OCD symptoms in people who have tendecies toward OCD. It can also help with OCD in some cases. I don't know why...?
Posted by judy1 on June 15, 2000, at 12:18:11
In reply to Re: Anti-psychotic drugs for depression, posted by SLS on June 14, 2000, at 13:14:41
Scott,
During most depressions (and some manic episodes), I experience auditory hallucinations and risperdal totally stops them in less than a week. I also experience what I think of as cloudy thinking during depressions, I find myself confused and I'm told delusional. Risperdal has helped me feel a lot clearer, while I probably wouldn't fare very well on an intelligence test, I think I make sense (let me know if I'm wrong here), and can interact with other people without them being aware of my depression, although my shrink always knows. Hope this has been of some help. Take care, Judy
Posted by Sara T on June 15, 2000, at 12:54:54
In reply to Re: rispedral can trigger OCD, posted by Anna P. on June 14, 2000, at 17:02:21
> > >
> >
> > How has Risperdal helped you?
> >
> > I've heard that Rispedral can trigger the OCD symptoms in people who have tendecies toward OCD. It can also help with OCD in some cases. I don't know why...?I don't have personal experience with Risperdal although my son's neurologist suggeted it for him (he has a mild autism). I do know that it is used among the Autistic population and obsessive rituals and interests are one of the hallmark traits of autistics. I have not heard of it triggering OCD among those I've heard from.
Hope this helps.
Sara T.
Posted by SLS on June 15, 2000, at 15:29:23
In reply to Re: Anti-psychotic drugs for depression- Scott, posted by judy1 on June 15, 2000, at 12:18:11
> Scott,
> During most depressions (and some manic episodes), I experience auditory hallucinations and risperdal totally stops them in less than a week.I am glad.
> I also experience what I think of as cloudy thinking during depressions, I find myself confused and I'm told delusional. Risperdal has helped me feel a lot clearer, while I probably wouldn't fare very well on an intelligence test, I think I make sense (let me know if I'm wrong here),
Could you please rephrase the last sentence? I'm having trouble making sense of it. :-) However, I think that has more to do with me than it does you.
You make perfect sense. I'm just not sure my attempt at humor did.
> and can interact with other people without them being aware of my depression, although my shrink always knows. Hope this has been of some help. Take care, Judy
Yes it has. You are very kind to share such personal information.
Thanks.
Stay well.
Love,
Scott
Posted by CraigF on June 15, 2000, at 18:17:52
In reply to Re: Anti-psychotic drugs for depression- Scott » judy1, posted by SLS on June 15, 2000, at 15:29:23
I avoided the Risperdal for quite a while at first b/c I didn't like the Idea of taking anti-psychotics. Thought it would make me a fat zombie with no sex drive or imagination.
I found it activating in the first month or so (I take with 400 mg. of Serzone). Weight is harder to control, but it helped to shed paranoia, social withdrawl, and the concept that I need to live my life for others. At times it has made me emotional and sensative (in a good way that contrasts life on Serzone), enthusiastic, and better sex drive.
Sometimes I would feel activated to the point of agitation and difficulty concentrating. Some horrible dreams.
I tried to go up from one half mg at night to one, but i got chills, nausea, anger, and I had to stop. doing half at night and half in the morning kept me sedated without the above positive effects.
So I'm steady at half at night, but the activating qualities seemed to have slipped, as have the enhanced libido and social enthusiasm. I'm not afraid to tell anyone to fuck off, but that doesn't seem enough. I don't know if I should go up or down to restore the previous theraputic level.
The overall experience is positive and I don't feel like a zombie (Welbutrin made me feel more stupid than this)My advice? Try it on your doctor's recommendation. The dose is low enough so that there are no overwhelming side effects.
Now, does anyone have a suggestion about fixing my dose?
Posted by Danny on June 17, 2000, at 23:42:14
In reply to Anti-psychotic drugs for depression, posted by Cecilia on June 13, 2000, at 3:23:31
I did have some success with Risperidal for depression, but I have serious GI problems and something didn't work out there. My suggestion would be to start with low doses; some of these things can be sedating.
> Is there anyone out there who doesn`t respond to anti-depressants at all who has responded to anti-psychotics for depression? Some people seem to be having good results using them to "augment" but I`ve never had a response to augment. On John L.`s recommendation, I read Dr. Jensen`s book, and asked my pdoc about it, his opinion was that the the "quick trial" method made sense only for stimulants. In any case, I`ve had many quick trials (stopped because of intolerable side effects), and many more full length trials and I`ve never found anything that worked even a little bit. I`ve tried most antidepressants(16), including a MAOI (Nardil), I`ve tried mood stabilizers (lithium added to Zoloft, neurontin added to Celexa), I`ve tried a couple of stimulants (Ritalin, Dexedrine), I`ve tried thyroid augmentaion (definitely not pleasant if you don`t need extra thyroid), I`ve augmented a couple of AD`s with Buspar, I`ve tried SAM-e and St. John`s wort, I`ve tried combinations ((Welbutrin with Celexa, Nortriptyline with Zoloft). I haven`t tried an anti-psychotic and the potential side effects scare me. Like I said, my pdoc didn`t think the short trial idea made any sense for anything except stimulants, and he didn`t seem exactly optimistic about the idea of an antipsychotic doing anything for me, but I think he would let me try it if I want, it`s not as if anything he has suggested has helped. I guess I`ll probably ask to try Zyprexa, which Chris K. said was very helpful for intrusive negative thoughts. Believe me, I have plenty of those-overwhelming self-hate, reliving unpleasant memories etc. (Yes, I`ve had talk therapy, $40.000 wasted). Just curious if any one with depression has found Zyprexa or other atypical antipsychotic useful on it`s own.
This is the end of the thread.
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