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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JohnL on June 11, 2000, at 4:46:38
Hi all,
Day 4 on Provigil instead of Adrafinil. At first I couldn't really tell much difference. But now the differences are becoming obvious.
One of the more common side effects listed for Provigil is headache. Boy, that's no joke. Ouch. Especially during sleep and first thing in the morning. Like a freight train parked on my head.
Another listed is nervousness. I'm feeling that too. It's not severe like the headache is, but it's there.
And my poor male organ is this sickly floppy lifeless thing. That's real strange, because in controlled studies there wasn't even one single reported case of impotence.
In all these areas--headache, nervousness, sexual function--Adrafinil to me is much friendlier, with better and smoother overall results too.
I gotta go find some Tylenol.
JohnL
Posted by ChrisK on June 11, 2000, at 7:03:54
In reply to Day 4. Like Adrafinil better than Modafinil, posted by JohnL on June 11, 2000, at 4:46:38
JohnL,
I tried Provigil for approx. 6 days and had to stop because of terrible constipation. Just couldn't take it anymore and went back to my Adderall. I guess the YMMV saying applies here.
Chris
Posted by AndrewB on June 11, 2000, at 7:22:12
In reply to Day 4. Like Adrafinil better than Modafinil, posted by JohnL on June 11, 2000, at 4:46:38
John,
You may want to try cutting your dose down. Headache and nervousness are signs of too much alpha 1 adrenergic stimulation. The headache I believe is caused by too much vasoconstriction. Vasoconstriction also (in part) contributes to raised BP. The sexual dysfunction is again due to alpha 1 adrenerigc action, this time constriction of certain smooth muscles in the groin area. Provigil may not be an alpha 1 adrenergic agonist, but it stimulates by some means those receptors. By cutting the dose by just enough you should be able to avoid the headache and nervousness and cut down some on the sexual side effects while maintaining a good arousal effect. Your dosage range where you are able to get good arousal yet no headaches and nervousness may be narrow however. You may need to start finely splitting the pills.
BTW Dwight, the constipation is transitory. You may lower the dose and give your body time to adjust b4 you bring the dose back up again.
AndrewB
Posted by Cam W. on June 11, 2000, at 9:20:35
In reply to Re: Day 4. Like Adrafinil better than Modafinil, posted by AndrewB on June 11, 2000, at 7:22:12
John - Although I am do not know as much as I would like about either of these meds, I'd like to echo Andrew's "low and slow" method. As you know Day 4 of any med sucks. Hang in there dude, we're pulling for you. - Cam
Posted by Rick on June 11, 2000, at 19:23:46
In reply to Day 4. Like Adrafinil better than Modafinil, posted by JohnL on June 11, 2000, at 4:46:38
As, always, it's almost amazing to see how differently each of us -- even those suffering similar disorders -- react to a particular therapy. I think that this is such an important concept -- especially for newcomers to the board -- that Dr. Bob would be doing a great service by having a short YMMV reminder automatically pasted to the top of each and every post.
I have not experienced any of your modafinal reactions (at 100mg week one and 200mg since), except for some very mild headaches the first few days. Of course, its very possible that some of my other meds are keeping some side effects at
bay. For instance, since my frequent facial pain unexpectedly went away when I started Klonopin, maybe it helps relieve some kinds of headaches as well.What really surprises me is how poorly your male organ is taking this. While it took a couple weks, I now find that my mental state is not the ONLY thing that Provigil has, um, elevated.
Anyways, give it a fair trial and you may be pleased to see that things are looking "up".
Good Luck, Rick
------
> Hi all,
>
> Day 4 on Provigil instead of Adrafinil. At first I couldn't really tell much difference. But now the differences are becoming obvious.
>> One of the more common side effects listed for Provigil is headache. Boy, that's no joke. Ouch. Especially during sleep and first thing in the morning. Like a freight train parked on my head.
>
> Another listed is nervousness. I'm feeling that too. It's not severe like the headache is, but it's there.
>
> And my poor male organ is this sickly floppy lifeless thing. That's real strange, because in controlled studies there wasn't even one single reported case of impotence.
>
> In all these areas--headache, nervousness, sexual function--Adrafinil to me is much friendlier, with better and smoother overall results too.
>
> I gotta go find some Tylenol.
> JohnL
Posted by JohnL on June 12, 2000, at 4:49:45
In reply to Day 4. Like Adrafinil better than Modafinil, posted by JohnL on June 11, 2000, at 4:46:38
Hi all,
Low and slow is my favorite way to go. Therefore my dose of Modafinil is 50mg a day, half the minimum. I don't know why it's so rude with me. The over stimulation of NE makes sense in explaining the headache and stuff. But what I don't understand is why even max doses of Adrafinil didn't do the same. I'm getting the hunch my body just doesn't like the Provigil molecule, but it loves the Adrafinil one.
We'll see what happens. I have one more trick up my sleeve before returning to Adrafinil. At least I know what chemistry to conentrate my efforts on.
JohnL
Posted by Rick on June 12, 2000, at 12:00:02
In reply to Re: Day 4. Like Adrafinil better than Modafinil, posted by JohnL on June 12, 2000, at 4:49:45
JohnL-
Apologies in advance for asking something you must have addreseed in another post. But why even attempt a switch to modafinil if adrafinil worked so well for you? Is it because you can get your insurance to cover the U.S.-available drug?
> Hi all,
>
> Low and slow is my favorite way to go. Therefore my dose of Modafinil is 50mg a day, half the minimum. I don't know why it's so rude with me. The over stimulation of NE makes sense in explaining the headache and stuff. But what I don't understand is why even max doses of Adrafinil didn't do the same. I'm getting the hunch my body just doesn't like the Provigil molecule, but it loves the Adrafinil one.
>
> We'll see what happens. I have one more trick up my sleeve before returning to Adrafinil. At least I know what chemistry to conentrate my efforts on.
> JohnL
Posted by AndrewB on June 12, 2000, at 14:52:25
In reply to Re: Day 4. Like Adrafinil better than Modafinil, posted by Rick on June 12, 2000, at 12:00:02
Thank you John and Rick for your thorough description of your experiences with provigil. Rick I've copied some of your posts. For those of us, like me, trying to deal with social anxiety, they are very useful. John keep us posted on whether Provigil continues to give you sexual side effects. If these were to go away, that would make Provigil something special in my book.
Posted by Rick on June 12, 2000, at 17:51:40
In reply to Re: Day 4. Like Adrafinil better than Modafinil, posted by AndrewB on June 12, 2000, at 14:52:25
AndrewB -
I'm happy to share my experiences. Of course, it's always important to keep in mind that other meds taken concurrently *might* have a significant effect -- positive or negative -- on our reactions to Provigil.
While I've had no adverse effects whatsoever from Provigil, it's conceivable that some potential side effects are being held in check by my Klonopin and/or Serzone. More importantly, it's possible that in the absence of one or both of the other drugs, Provigil would be having less benefit, no benefit, or a even a negative impact on my Social Phobia. Remember, Provigil was the last thing I added to to top off my 3-med cocktail.
Another thing to consider is our individual diagnoses -- in my case generalized Social Anxiety without depression. However, looking at the recent abstract I posted regarding Provigil's early promise as an AD potentiator, it's hard to imagine that Provigil would be less useful in Social Anxiety WITH co-morbid depression.
Rick
> Thank you John and Rick for your thorough description of your experiences with provigil. Rick I've copied some of your posts. For those of us, like me, trying to deal with social anxiety, they are very useful. John keep us posted on whether Provigil continues to give you sexual side effects. If these were to go away, that would make Provigil something special in my book.
Posted by JohnL on June 13, 2000, at 3:47:06
In reply to Re: Day 4. Like Adrafinil better than Modafinil, posted by Rick on June 12, 2000, at 12:00:02
> JohnL-
>
> Apologies in advance for asking something you must have addreseed in another post. But why even attempt a switch to modafinil if adrafinil worked so well for you? Is it because you can get your insurance to cover the U.S.-available drug?
>
Good question. You hit the nail on the head with the insurance thing. That's it. Also, I would feel a little more comfortable with a medication available at my local pharmacy rather than overseas. It's just easier and a little less risky in terms of having the drug suddenly made unavailable for one reason or another, like what happened with Amineptine. I don't think that is at all likely to happen with Adrafinil, but boy what a bummer it would be if it did.But now that about a week has gone by, I can see this little experiment wasn't such a good idea. But I'm glad I did it, because otherwise I would have always been wondering, "What about Provigil?" At least now I know. For me personally, Adrafinil is a far superior med than any antidepressant or any stimulant I've ever tried, including Provigil.
I never would have known otherwise. Each physician and each patient has their own preferable treatment strategies. I don't think any are better or worse than others. No rights and no wrongs. Just different. My particular preferable strategy is to compare all available meds within the same class to be sure we are on the best match within that class. Then once we know for sure what the superior med is, we can choose it for longer continuation. That's what I have done within the class of meds comprised of Ritalin, Adderall, Provigil, and Adrafinil. I now know for sure which med is the superior match for me. No ifs, ands, or buts.
JohnL
Posted by eddie on June 13, 2000, at 9:18:16
In reply to Re: Day 4. Like Adrafinil better than Modafinil, posted by JohnL on June 13, 2000, at 3:47:06
> > JohnL-
> >
> > Apologies in advance for asking something you must have addreseed in another post. But why even attempt a switch to modafinil if adrafinil worked so well for you? Is it because you can get your insurance to cover the U.S.-available drug?
> >
> Good question. You hit the nail on the head with the insurance thing. That's it. Also, I would feel a little more comfortable with a medication available at my local pharmacy rather than overseas. It's just easier and a little less risky in terms of having the drug suddenly made unavailable for one reason or another, like what happened with Amineptine. I don't think that is at all likely to happen with Adrafinil, but boy what a bummer it would be if it did.
>
> But now that about a week has gone by, I can see this little experiment wasn't such a good idea. But I'm glad I did it, because otherwise I would have always been wondering, "What about Provigil?" At least now I know. For me personally, Adrafinil is a far superior med than any antidepressant or any stimulant I've ever tried, including Provigil.
>
> I never would have known otherwise. Each physician and each patient has their own preferable treatment strategies. I don't think any are better or worse than others. No rights and no wrongs. Just different. My particular preferable strategy is to compare all available meds within the same class to be sure we are on the best match within that class. Then once we know for sure what the superior med is, we can choose it for longer continuation. That's what I have done within the class of meds comprised of Ritalin, Adderall, Provigil, and Adrafinil. I now know for sure which med is the superior match for me. No ifs, ands, or buts.
> JohnL
John are you still taking zyprexa?
This is the end of the thread.
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