![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 16 to 40 of 40. Go back in thread:
Posted by KarenB on June 3, 2000, at 18:00:20
In reply to Re: Life aches, posted by claire 7 on June 3, 2000, at 16:57:23
>It doesn't seem possible that you could be devoting much thought to your job, and of course you can't clean your apartment, because you seem to be psychobabbling every waking hour."
Every waking hour? That's quite a presumption to make about someone you don't know.
>I'm sure you'd feel better if you didn't make your "condition" the sole focus of your life.
If it were the "sole focus of her life," I doubt she would have much to share. I find what Noa has to offer here of immeasurable value. Most of what I have seen written by her is others-centered and of an encouraging nature.
> Just trying to be helpful.Really?
Karen
Posted by claire 7 on June 3, 2000, at 18:01:55
In reply to Re: Life aches, posted by claire 7 on June 3, 2000, at 16:57:23
> I also wonder, Noa, if all the time you devote to helping others solve their problems might not be better spent on solving your own problems. Is it possible that all your noaing responses--helpful as they are, I'm sure---are just a convenient way for you to avoid addressing what are by your own admission serious problems in your own life?
Just a thought. Hugs and good luck!!!
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> Noa: Listening to your problems, I can't help but
> wonder if you're not spending too much time on psychobabble. It doesn't seem possible that you could be devoting much thought to your job, and of course you can't clean your apartment, because you seem to be psychobabbling every waking hour. I'm sure you'd feel better if you didn't make your "condition" the sole focus of your life. Is there any other activity you could engage in? Maybe a furry pet would help.
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> Just trying to be helpful.
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> ealized she had never even seen mine, because I have only known her for about 18 months and it has been about two years since I started being a total no-holds-barred slob at home. I felt bad, because I have been at her place many times. I would like to be able to go back to being "normal" in the sense of inviting friends over. Someday.
Posted by KarenB on June 3, 2000, at 19:36:47
In reply to Re: Life aches, posted by claire 7 on June 3, 2000, at 18:01:55
> > I also wonder, Noa, if all the time you devote to helping others solve their problems might not be better spent on solving your own problems. Is it possible that all your noaing responses--helpful as they are, I'm sure---are just a convenient way for you to avoid addressing what are by your own admission serious problems in your own life?
>
> Just a thought. Hugs and good luck!!!
Dear "claire,"You're flailing wildly. Try not to hurt yourself, would you?
Sounds a lot like another "persona" we know.
Karen
Posted by me-but-not-me on June 3, 2000, at 20:03:07
In reply to Re: Life aches, posted by KarenB on June 3, 2000, at 19:36:47
Wow, I was totally taken aback at Claire's posts. The tone used was totally uncalled for, even if she did think she had 'advice' for Noa.
Granted, I am 'new' around here but I would never have had the courage to post in my dark hour had it not been for posts I have read by Noa and the others courageous enough to take off their masks here. This IS a form of therapy for some of us, including me.
Noa and others, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for sharing of yourselves here. I understand how writing advice to others can be helpful to oneself as well - perhaps Claire was projecting? I do that when I can't see my own forest for the trees...
Me
Posted by Civilla T on June 3, 2000, at 20:14:59
In reply to Re: Life aches, posted by KarenB on June 3, 2000, at 19:36:47
Dear "karen"
Sarcasm and accusations are not the answer, are they? Two wrongs don't make a right, do they?
I understand that you may be reacting out of concern for Noa's feelings, but claire has feelings too. Nobody deserves to be ridiculed.
Civilla
PS I think you'll find that Noa is capable of evaluating and responding to any advice on her own. Let's not escalate this OK?
> Dear "claire,"
>
> You're flailing wildly. Try not to hurt yourself, would you?
>
> Sounds a lot like another "persona" we know.
>
> Karen
Posted by KarenB on June 3, 2000, at 20:28:32
In reply to Re: Life aches » KarenB, posted by Civilla T on June 3, 2000, at 20:14:59
> but claire has feelings too. Nobody deserves to be ridiculed.
Of course, you're right. And who would understand "claire's" feelings better than you, "Civilla?"Thanks for setting me straight.
Karen
Posted by claire 7 on June 3, 2000, at 21:16:30
In reply to Re: Life aches, posted by KarenB on June 3, 2000, at 20:28:32
>Jeez. I don't understand why people are responding so negatively to my attempts to answer a cry for help. Maybe Elizabeth could help, here. What was it? Help-rejecting complaints? Aren't my efforts civil? (They are my sincere thoughts, by the way. I just never would have thought to voice them if not for Noa's example.)
And sorry, Karen, your guess is wrong. Do you really think there's only one person in the world who finds this type of help offensive? Look at your response. Why did what I say offend you?Hugs, love ya, and good luck!
but claire has feelings too. Nobody deserves to be ridiculed.
>
>
> Of course, you're right. And who would understand "claire's" feelings better than you, "Civilla?"
>
> Thanks for setting me straight.
>
> Karen
Posted by shar on June 3, 2000, at 21:54:10
In reply to Re: Life aches, posted by claire 7 on June 3, 2000, at 18:01:55
> > I also wonder, Noa, if all the time you devote to helping others solve their problems might not be better spent on solving your own problems. Is it possible that all your noaing responses--helpful as they are, I'm sure---are just a convenient way for you to avoid addressing what are by your own admission serious problems in your own life?
>
> Just a thought. Hugs and good luck!!!
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> > Noa: Listening to your problems, I can't help but
> > wonder if you're not spending too much time on psychobabble. It doesn't seem possible that you could be devoting much thought to your job, and of course you can't clean your apartment, because you seem to be psychobabbling every waking hour. I'm sure you'd feel better if you didn't make your "condition" the sole focus of your life. Is there any other activity you could engage in? Maybe a furry pet would help.
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> > Just trying to be helpful.
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> > ealized she had never even seen mine, because I have only known her for about 18 months and it has been about two years since I started being a total no-holds-barred slob at home. I felt bad, because I have been at her place many times. I would like to be able to go back to being "normal" in the sense of inviting friends over. Someday.
Posted by shar on June 3, 2000, at 21:57:00
In reply to Re: Life aches » KarenB, posted by Civilla T on June 3, 2000, at 20:14:59
> Dear "karen"
>
> Sarcasm and accusations are not the answer, are they? Two wrongs don't make a right, do they?
>
> I understand that you may be reacting out of concern for Noa's feelings, but claire has feelings too. Nobody deserves to be ridiculed.
>
> Civilla
>
> PS I think you'll find that Noa is capable of evaluating and responding to any advice on her own. Let's not escalate this OK?
>
> > Dear "claire,"
> >
> > You're flailing wildly. Try not to hurt yourself, would you?
> >
> > Sounds a lot like another "persona" we know.
> >
> > Karen
Posted by Civilla T on June 3, 2000, at 22:22:16
In reply to Civilla T = boBB (no post), posted by shar on June 3, 2000, at 21:57:00
Shar- I'm not boBB. This is getting a little silly. I don't even know why I'm responding, you will still believe whatever you want. But really I'm not boBB. Civilla :-)
PS I'm not Rodney King either but can't we all just get along?
Posted by shar on June 3, 2000, at 22:40:04
In reply to Re: Life aches, posted by claire 7 on June 3, 2000, at 21:16:30
Noa,
Thanks for talking about your experiences; this is an area where I really do often feel that nobody else could have this problem.I am really regretting that your information was thrown back at you by another poster as it was.
Seems just plain mean and pointless to me. I hope you can just consider the source and not get hurt by it.S
Posted by KarenB on June 4, 2000, at 1:18:56
In reply to Noa--Can you consider the source?, posted by shar on June 3, 2000, at 22:40:04
> Noa,
> Thanks for talking about your experiences; this is an area where I really do often feel that nobody else could have this problem.
>
> I am really regretting that your information was thrown back at you by another poster as it was.
> Seems just plain mean and pointless to me. I hope you can just consider the source and not get hurt by it.
>
> SI agree. This whole thing seems rather transparent to me: an effort to provoke us all to understand how truly awful it must be to receive unsolicited advice. The difference is, Noa didn't pour it all out on the table, an act which would seem to many to be a cry for help, warranting the limited type of intervention available to us through the written word. I think she just happened to be there at the wrong moment and was in no way deserving of what I saw as a personal attack. It was anything but civil. I just hope you weren't hurt, Noa, because you certainly didn't have it coming.
There are many here - an extraordinary number in my opinion - who have very real, sincere concern and compassion for their fellow sufferers. I for one am blessed they are here. Further, I do not believe these individuals are engaging in self-avoidance or denial of their own problems through their desire to assist those in need. Sometimes those in the most pain are able to relate and help the most.
Both messages today to Noa appeared to me both mean spirited and without true concern. If "claire" honestly cannot see that, I don't even know what to say. But, after all, I don't think I'm talking to anyone named claire or Civilla in the first place but rather one troubled individual who has created several identities to support his own opinions and agenda. Dropping commas and creating run-on sentences cannot hide the intentions of one's heart, especially when the signature thread of hostility and aggression is so evident.
This is just my humble opinion. Nothing over which to get one's panties (or shorts?) in a twist. I'm done with this conversation.
For the rest of you, I am sorry to have stooped. I just believed it to be worth it to back up a friend. Blessings to you all. Even you, with all the new names.
Karen
Posted by Civilla T on June 4, 2000, at 8:12:33
In reply to Re: Life aches » KarenB, posted by Civilla T on June 3, 2000, at 20:14:59
> Dear "karen"
>
> Sarcasm and accusations are not the answer, are they? Two wrongs don't make a right, do they?
>
> I understand that you may be reacting out of concern for Noa's feelings, but claire has feelings too. Nobody deserves to be ridiculed.
>
> Civilla
>
> PS I think you'll find that Noa is capable of evaluating and responding to any advice on her own. Let's not escalate this OK?
Noa-I hope you didn't think I was taking the other side against you. I saw it more as stopping all the attack and counterattack. I thought I knew you well enough to think you could take care of yourself without someone else attacking another person on your behalf.
I've always admired you and do think you are very courageous to share personal information in this format-I NEVER would.
I hope you have a good day and thanks for all you've given to the people at Psychobabble.
Civilla
>
> > Dear "claire,"
> >
> > You're flailing wildly. Try not to hurt yourself, would you?
> >
> > Sounds a lot like another "persona" we know.
> >
> > Karen
Posted by claire 7 on June 4, 2000, at 8:16:41
In reply to Claire 7 = boBB (no post), posted by shar on June 3, 2000, at 21:54:10
Honestly, I'm not boBB. But whatI am is a little sorry this morning that I let my exasperation get away from me last night. I was trying to make a point, and in my opinion a valid point. If I didn't see Noa as a strong person I wouldn't have made the point at her expense, even though it was
Noa who triggered my desire to make a point in the first place.This desire to believe claire is civilla is boBB
is perhaps a protective one---believing there is only one person who feels this way may make you
feel more secure in your beliefs, and make you less likely to question them. So be it. >At any rate, I am sorry I made the rash decision to launch into this. I didn't make my point, apparently, and therefore caused unnecessary consternation.
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Posted by Civilla T on June 4, 2000, at 8:30:33
In reply to Re: Claire 7 = boBB (no post), posted by claire 7 on June 4, 2000, at 8:16:41
Hey Claire- I just posted and then came back to see a post from you. I guess we're on the same schedule. I'm starting to get a little paranoid myself because the first thing I thought was "oh no now they'll think that Civilla=Claire7". It's almost funny. I think I'll just give up. How can anybody prove who they are? Have a nice Sunday.
Civilla
Posted by Greg on June 4, 2000, at 13:39:59
In reply to Re: Claire 7 = boBB (no post) » claire 7, posted by Civilla T on June 4, 2000, at 8:30:33
Making both of your E-mails available for people to look at might settle things down a little. Personally, ain't no thing to me.
Just an idea.
Have a great day.
Greg
Posted by Noa on June 4, 2000, at 13:44:58
In reply to Re: Claire 7 = boBB (no post) » claire 7, posted by Civilla T on June 4, 2000, at 8:30:33
I am not hurt, and yes, was considering the source. Thanks for the heads up anyway.
I am not hurt, but I do feel violated, in the sense that when we post now, we must always be wary of this ridiculous saboteur trying to disguise himself as other facetious identities. I feel the best way to deal with this is to ignore it. I will not respond to any poster that comes across to me as having no other purpose than to provoke hostility. The problem is, he will keep coming up with new names and we will always have to figure out when he is rearing his hostile head. Oh well. C'est la vie.
In the meantime, I intend to continue my sincere conversations with sincere people. If I get duped into conversing with another "front for boBB", or any boBBesque copycats, as soon as it becomes clear to me what I am dealing with, I will simply move on and try not to engage.
If raised genuinely by a sincere babbler, I will have no problem discussing the issue of time online, whether I am facing my own problems, etc., as I have nothing to be defensive about with regard to these issues. But that really wasn't the point of those posts, anyway, was it?
Posted by Sal on June 4, 2000, at 14:05:35
In reply to Re: Whatever, posted by Noa on June 4, 2000, at 13:44:58
Talk about feeling violated! Ever been on a date where you open up to someone and they considered it a ticket to have their way with you?
Apparently we mostly trust this "ridiculous sabateur," who wrote such an original and concerned essay about collaborative delivery of mental health and social services to have the strength to endure the scorn he suffered after he dared to share his darker feeings.
If he is not capable as he says he is of handling those feelings, the "consequences of your leaving" argument used in crisis counseling probably would have little impact on him in reference to this board.
Posted by Noa on June 4, 2000, at 14:24:16
In reply to Violations, posted by Sal on June 4, 2000, at 14:05:35
Listen, boBB,Sal, Civilla, Claire, Bob, Carol, Ted, Alice, and anyone else you claim to be,
I am sorry if my comments in that earlier thread were disrespectful of you and your feelings. I am sorry if they violated you.
I stated back then that that had not been my intention, but you insisted on attributing hostile intentions to me.
Enough is enough. Can we move on? Am I so important to you that you must hold a grudge so vehemently?
Posted by Noa on June 4, 2000, at 14:26:23
In reply to Re: Life ache update- thanks for your responses » me-but-not-me, posted by Noa on June 3, 2000, at 12:48:40
In the meantime, he has managed to get us off track as to what this thread was originally about, so I am startin a new one below.
Posted by Civilla T on June 4, 2000, at 16:07:22
In reply to Re: Violations » Sal, posted by Noa on June 4, 2000, at 14:24:16
> Listen, boBB,Sal, Civilla, Claire, Bob, Carol, Ted, Alice, and anyone else you claim to be,
>
> I am sorry if my comments in that earlier thread were disrespectful of you and your feelings. I am sorry if they violated you.
>
> I stated back then that that had not been my intention, but you insisted on attributing hostile intentions to me.
>
> Enough is enough. Can we move on? Am I so important to you that you must hold a grudge so vehemently?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Noa, everyone on the board is equally important.
I am Civilla. I am not any of the other names you listed. You have no reason to have a grudge against me so please take me off your list!!!!!I realize you are upset but making sweeping accusations against people will not make it better. PLEASE leave me out of it?????
Thanks, Civilla
Posted by Civilla T on June 4, 2000, at 16:15:47
In reply to Claire 7 and Civilla T, posted by Greg on June 4, 2000, at 13:39:59
> Making both of your E-mails available for people to look at might settle things down a little. Personally, ain't no thing to me.
>
> Just an idea.
>
> Have a great day.
>
> GregThanks for the suggestion, but I don't think that would settle much. E-mail addresses are pretty easy to come by and I don't think I would want to post mine in this environment anyway.
Thanks anyway, you have a great day too.
Civilla
Posted by claire 7 on June 4, 2000, at 22:52:07
In reply to Re: Claire 7 = boBB (no post) » claire 7, posted by Civilla T on June 4, 2000, at 8:30:33
Thanks, Civilla. I did have a nice Sunday, and hope you did, too. I agree there's no point in trying to prove I'm not you, I'm not bobb, you're not me, you're not bobb.At least you and I know, and sometimes that's the best we can hope for. I was wondering, though, if I ought to warn new people to immediately say something anti-bobb so they won't be suspect. (Not really. This is a little joke.) Best wishes! Claire (PS I like your name.)
Posted by CarolAnn on June 5, 2000, at 10:17:53
In reply to Re: Claire 7 = boBB (no post), posted by claire 7 on June 4, 2000, at 22:52:07
boBB, I have to apologize, because I think it is my fault that all this has gone on. I was the one who 'responded' to your original "feelings" post and it was my own fault that I felt hurt when you rejected my offer of a "non-judgemental ear". It was also my fault that I let my hurt feelings goad me into trying to make you feel guilty about hurting me. That was not fair.
For the record, I would just like to say that none of my posts held any scorn for you, and none of them were intended to put you down in any way. My intention was to offer compassion and understanding, because I empathized with the feelings you wrote about. Obviously, I was mistaken in thinking that you had any use for my friendship, just because you seemed very lonely when you posted your feelings. I've been lonely, I know what it's like, and I thought I could help. I'm very sorry that I misunderstood, I know better now. Sincerely(truly), CarolAnn
Posted by BBob on June 5, 2000, at 14:07:11
In reply to Re: boBB, I'm sorry...., posted by CarolAnn on June 5, 2000, at 10:17:53
CarolAnn,
I understand. It hurts me that people are so separated, so lacking of intimacy and so longing for connection that we seek freindship by staring into these networked cathode-ray tubes. If we were close enough to be human, flesh and blood friends, chances are I would gladly embrace your friendship.
It might help you to know that an interview technique National Public Radio personnel like to boast among themselves of using is the "just between you and me" line when the interview is obviously on the record. It creates a sense of intimacy when in fact, the information is available for the whole world to share.
I was reffering to scorn toward me more in reference to the behavior of the group. SimpleSue shares a word of intimacy with Joe Jock. But she refuses to "put out" for Joe Jock, and calls him a creep to stop his persistant and unwanted advances.
The next day at school word goes around that Simple Sue called popular Joe Jock a creep (no-one asks Simple Sue what happened) and all the popular kids and their wanna-be followers start calling Sue "pscyho." The more articulate popular kids reinforce the analysis, explaining that Sue acts that way because she is "bipolar." Sue spends the rest of her school career wearing a label, and boBB is barred from the Professor's discussion. Sort of.
I appreciate your interest. My reply was as honest as it gets. I was perhaps blunt, but I trust you will find people in your everyday off-line life who need your concern. I wasn't asking you to change the whole world. I was just trying to encourage you to direct your sincere concern toward someone who needs it in a setting where the concern can bear genuine fruit. For my part, I am still holding out hope that will be the product of this difficult investment of my time in this discussion.
This is the end of the thread.
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