![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 5 to 29 of 40. Go back in thread:
Posted by Noa on June 1, 2000, at 8:32:44
In reply to Re: I am having a life-ache...can you relate? (long) , posted by Orin on June 1, 2000, at 0:35:55
Me-not-me,
How apt a name, first of all!
Have you read any of my past posts on the filth that I live in?
I don't think your meds are working optimally, and should be reevaluated.
One thing you should consider is evaluating your thyroid functions. See Mary Shomon's site at
www.thyroid-info.com
for more information. She also publised a book called Living Well with Hypothyroidism. I have found a great deal of relief from finally getting a handle on my hypothyroid condition and treating it with sufficient thyroid hormone. This augments the ADs I am on, but also addresses the subclinical hypothyroid, which causes symptoms like lethargy, fatigue, lack of motivation, brain fog, etc. Another good resource is The Thyroid Solution by Ridha Arem.
If thyroid is not the issue, take a look at the meds you are on. What are you on? Do you take a Stimulant?
Finally, are you in therapy? It can help, too, in combination with medication.
Thank you for writing so honestly. I relate to everything you said.
Posted by Sara T on June 1, 2000, at 21:27:56
In reply to Re: I am having a life-ache...can you relate? (long) , posted by Noa on June 1, 2000, at 8:32:44
Hi Me-not-me,
I think Brian's suggetion was a really good one. Don't try to take on the whole mess at once. Tommorrow, just do one thing. The next day, just do one more thing. Then come back and tell us about it, so we can cheer you on.
Sara T.
Posted by Sal on June 1, 2000, at 21:50:47
In reply to I am having a life-ache...can you relate? (long) , posted by me-but-not-me on May 31, 2000, at 20:48:13
Sounds like you need help cleaning house!
I'm no stranger to squallar - I've lived in several tiny travel trailers, tents, abandoned houses, college-town dives, etc. One of my longest-term "homes" was an abandonded barn - or what was left of it. In the far northern latitudes, to boot. At least the roof didn't leak so much when it was below zero - it got icicles though. Lived under the open sky sometimes, too.
Moving has helped me clean out things sometimes. My current apartment is one of the best ever (accept the barn - that felt like home to me, bats, skunks, cat poop and all). I never got on any meds accept the ones I got, well, you know - the kind you get on the street. I'm sure I've been called every disorder in the book, behind my back. Anyway, things eventually turned up. I still isolate somewhat, but that's okay with me. Its sort of spiritual, if you can see it that way. I have a steady job and no one complains about the way I bend my schedule. I guess I'm doing okay at work. But, about you ....
A friend who was in the mental health system had a case worker who came to make sure his home was liveable. I wonder if you have a county health nurse. This is not advise - a public nurse might condemn your home and get you committed, and then you might loose your cats. But its a thought. Some towns have pretty good mental health networks but others are about as squalid as you describe your house. Some county nurses have a heart and some have a rock in the middle of their chest.
You might consider applying for a disability. Trouble with that is, sometimes you have to be out of work for a period of time before they will consider you. And how can you survive until you get disability? It is sometimes retroactive - you might get a big lump payment at first, and public insurance to cover meds. I don't know if working half-time counts or not. It probably depends on the doctor who would assess you and the social security people who would review your application. But if you know where your nearest social security office is located, you can walk in an get the ball rolling there.
Another option might be to ask a benevolent stranger for help. Your post here seemed like evidence you can effectively convince people of your legitimate needs. The trick is identifying who in your community might help. Being compliant on the meds is a step. People often say someone needs medical help, but if your already doing that, they might be more willing to help fill in the gaps. I would look around to see of their is some sort of voluntary action agency in your area. If not that, maybe a food pantry. Or maybe your neighborhood meals on wheels group, if there is one. If not that, I would look at churches, temples, mosques or synaguoges. The trick is to find a group of people that look genuinely helpful. That can be frustrating if there aren't any, but it is better to lurk about and size up people rather than wasting your energy begging from deadbeats.
If you find someone - say there is a food pantry - don't just walk in and ask the first worker. Identify the manager or a leader and ask them for a private conversation. Tell them all what you said here, and then say you need help getting your house in order. The same thing might work with a minister at some church or the other - maybe they can get some teenagers to volunteer to help you. You never know who is liable to be genuinely charitable. Fundamentalists sometimes help because they want to save your soul. Catholics have a long tradition of community work in some areas. Episcipalian, or Lutherans can be helpful. Baptists, methodists - it just depends on the church - I would look toward one that has a balance of young and old, married and single members.
I knew an old farmer once. He would give you the shirt off his back. His wife died and after that, the junk mail and animal dung just piled up in his house. He just kept giving money and stuff to people, and tending his cows, but his house was squalid as all getout. I tried to clean up most of the junk mail, but he said it protected the floors from the dogs and cats. Beneath all that junk was his late wife's nic-nacs and her kitchen was still fully stocked with all that crystal and other neat stuff farmwives acumulate.
Well, that's my thoughts. good luck. hey - my life still aches, but my kitchen works again.
Posted by Tina1 on June 2, 2000, at 11:42:59
In reply to Re: I am having a life-ache...can you relate? (long) , posted by Sal on June 1, 2000, at 21:50:47
You might want to try writing things down. Make yourself a list of things you want to do and pin it to a wall,, the fridge or wherever you'll see it. Small things, baby steps. number one always has to be "take care of yourself first" then go from there. If you have specific goals for everyday you might be more inclined to work on it one thing at a time, makes it seem a little less daunting. Don't beat yourself up if you don't stick to the list everyday, just move that task to another day and pick something else. Above all, forgive yourself. There are many more important things in this world than having a clean apartment. You will eventually clean it up, when you have sufficiently cleaned yourself up, tackled all the clutter inside your head and heart and you'll get around to the house. Be patient with yourself and love yourself whether your house is clean or not. Baby steps....
> Sounds like you need help cleaning house!
>
> I'm no stranger to squallar - I've lived in several tiny travel trailers, tents, abandoned houses, college-town dives, etc. One of my longest-term "homes" was an abandonded barn - or what was left of it. In the far northern latitudes, to boot. At least the roof didn't leak so much when it was below zero - it got icicles though. Lived under the open sky sometimes, too.
>
> Moving has helped me clean out things sometimes. My current apartment is one of the best ever (accept the barn - that felt like home to me, bats, skunks, cat poop and all). I never got on any meds accept the ones I got, well, you know - the kind you get on the street. I'm sure I've been called every disorder in the book, behind my back. Anyway, things eventually turned up. I still isolate somewhat, but that's okay with me. Its sort of spiritual, if you can see it that way. I have a steady job and no one complains about the way I bend my schedule. I guess I'm doing okay at work. But, about you ....
>
> A friend who was in the mental health system had a case worker who came to make sure his home was liveable. I wonder if you have a county health nurse. This is not advise - a public nurse might condemn your home and get you committed, and then you might loose your cats. But its a thought. Some towns have pretty good mental health networks but others are about as squalid as you describe your house. Some county nurses have a heart and some have a rock in the middle of their chest.
>
> You might consider applying for a disability. Trouble with that is, sometimes you have to be out of work for a period of time before they will consider you. And how can you survive until you get disability? It is sometimes retroactive - you might get a big lump payment at first, and public insurance to cover meds. I don't know if working half-time counts or not. It probably depends on the doctor who would assess you and the social security people who would review your application. But if you know where your nearest social security office is located, you can walk in an get the ball rolling there.
>
> Another option might be to ask a benevolent stranger for help. Your post here seemed like evidence you can effectively convince people of your legitimate needs. The trick is identifying who in your community might help. Being compliant on the meds is a step. People often say someone needs medical help, but if your already doing that, they might be more willing to help fill in the gaps. I would look around to see of their is some sort of voluntary action agency in your area. If not that, maybe a food pantry. Or maybe your neighborhood meals on wheels group, if there is one. If not that, I would look at churches, temples, mosques or synaguoges. The trick is to find a group of people that look genuinely helpful. That can be frustrating if there aren't any, but it is better to lurk about and size up people rather than wasting your energy begging from deadbeats.
>
> If you find someone - say there is a food pantry - don't just walk in and ask the first worker. Identify the manager or a leader and ask them for a private conversation. Tell them all what you said here, and then say you need help getting your house in order. The same thing might work with a minister at some church or the other - maybe they can get some teenagers to volunteer to help you. You never know who is liable to be genuinely charitable. Fundamentalists sometimes help because they want to save your soul. Catholics have a long tradition of community work in some areas. Episcipalian, or Lutherans can be helpful. Baptists, methodists - it just depends on the church - I would look toward one that has a balance of young and old, married and single members.
>
> I knew an old farmer once. He would give you the shirt off his back. His wife died and after that, the junk mail and animal dung just piled up in his house. He just kept giving money and stuff to people, and tending his cows, but his house was squalid as all getout. I tried to clean up most of the junk mail, but he said it protected the floors from the dogs and cats. Beneath all that junk was his late wife's nic-nacs and her kitchen was still fully stocked with all that crystal and other neat stuff farmwives acumulate.
>
> Well, that's my thoughts. good luck. hey - my life still aches, but my kitchen works again.
Posted by Noa on June 2, 2000, at 12:36:08
In reply to I am having a life-ache...can you relate? (long) , posted by me-but-not-me on May 31, 2000, at 20:48:13
I always feel that my place is so filthy, it is beyond description, so I deeply appreciate your courage and strength in actually describing yours. Mine is not far off from what you describe.
Perhaps I haven't stopped taking the trash out altogether, but I am quite delinquent in doing so. My level of caring about the cleanliness has gone from being extremely clean to tolerating and living with real filth--real trash all over the place. It is a perplexing thing. It bothers me, but I tend to dissociate from it to cope. Every so often, I make a stab at cleaning it up, but then I let it deteriorate again and this adds to the feeling of "why bother?" Now that I am feeling less depressed, I want to start cleaning up a bit, but am still avoiding it.
I do wonder whether you have the whole picture on your depression. I think checking out the thyroid or another endocrine problem is worth it. It might be that some undiagnosed medical problem is what is making it hard for you to respond to the meds.
Please write and respond to all the posts. I am interested to hear how you are doing.
Posted by me-but-not-me on June 2, 2000, at 21:18:13
In reply to Re: I am having a life-ache...can you relate? » me-but-not-me, posted by Noa on June 2, 2000, at 12:36:08
Thank you all for your posts. I appreciate your candor and sensitivity. Thanks too for your suggestions. Thank you for helping me to not feel so alone.
I haven't posted until now because I was at a severe low point and just stayed in bed. I actually called the local psych e/r and asked about voluntary admission... I haven't yet been hospitalized and did not know what to expect. I have decided to give myself this weekend to ponder this option. I apparantly have insurance through the end of June, and they would pay all costs for up to thirty days, less $500.00. Not bad. But I can't decide.
I was not able to do anything constructive last night. I had a dental appt. yesterday and it left me feeling awful (2 full hours of root canal adventures! yuck -- but I am trying to cram all this stuff in before my insurance is up). All I could do was lie there prone. In my filthy,crowded-with-junk bed. One of the cats pissed on the floor right in front of me because the litter box had stalagmites (or stalactites, I can never get those right!) and I was ignoring (well,trying to!) his incessant meowy complaints about it. I was not able to sleep much but was catatonic most of the night, staring at the pulses of the digital clock in the dark.
One of the cats woke me early (the complainy one) and I could have gotten ready for work, but -- I couldn't make myself move. I was totally immobile. Like something snapped, and the little monkey that turns the cogs in my brain was asleep at the wheel. I just couldn't bear life itself... and since I am NOT suicidal, I am even more miserable because I feel as though there really is no escape. I wallowed in this self-pity mode for two hours more, then came to work very late. No shower, dishevelled, same clothes as yesterday because they were on the top of the pile and didn't have too much cat hair on them. These people are saints not to fire me.Talking on the phone with a doc at the psych e/r helped a bit, and chatting with some people at work helped get me out of my own head long enough to stop feeling that total and utter despair. It also helps to be able to post here, thank you for so patiently reading my drivel. It means a lot.
I will check in again over the weekend. I am house-sitting for a friend and won't be near my computer until Saturday night at least. Thank you all for your good wishes. And, I plan to try to clean off part of my bed on Sunday. It's a twin bed, and I have some major real estate going on in the hip & butt area right now so having the bed stacked with junk just isn't cutting it. I really want to put clean sheets on and actually have a good night's sleep. Wow, I guess that means I have a goal?
*Me*
Posted by Sara T on June 2, 2000, at 21:53:25
In reply to Life ache update- thanks for your responses, posted by me-but-not-me on June 2, 2000, at 21:18:13
> I plan to try to clean off part of my bed on Sunday. It's a twin bed, and I have some major real estate going on in the hip & butt area right now so having the bed stacked with junk just isn't cutting it. I really want to put clean sheets on and actually have a good night's sleep. Wow, I guess that means I have a goal?
>
> *Me*Alright!!!! You might like the feel of those clean sheets alot. Nice reward.
Noa's got a good point about checking up on an underlying medical condition.
You're going to get there, just do like that little train going up that steep mountain and say, "I think I can, I think I can".
Just a little cheerleading.
Sara T.
Posted by shar on June 3, 2000, at 0:14:29
In reply to Re: Life ache update- thanks for your responses, posted by Sara T on June 2, 2000, at 21:53:25
M-B-N-M:
You have such a way with words. The idea of a life-ache never occurred to me, but it hits the nail on the head.About living conditions, I have found mine going steadily down, down, down. My sister's house is perfect, mine--I don't let people come in. If someone drops in, they stay on the porch. I do not encourage drop-ins.
I'm very ashamed about this. Do not know what to do. I do make attempts, but it always seems to be a messy, chaotic, pit.
Good luck to you. I think the "little bit" approach is good; it's the only thing that helps me. Like, I might go through my stacks of junk mail/bills/old newspapers/letters/catalogs (boxes full) and I will bring 3 grocery bags. When those grocery bags are full, I stop.
Or, I might get a container and go all over the house and anything that belongs in the bathroom--hair pins, head bands, bath soap, new toothpaste, stuff I've purchased but left sitting in the kitchen--I put in that box and take the box to the bathroom. I usually don't put it all away; that's another task.
I wonder if you could arrange for someone to tote some trashbags upstairs for you. Then you could fill up trashbags with stuff and set them outside your door, after arranging for someone to take them up. Would not take so much energy.
Or, I think someone suggested having one bag ready to go by the door--a little one. So, when you leave your place, you can pick it up (it's little so no big hassle) and toss it on your way out.
Hang in there. I get a lot out of your posts, and the responses to it.
S
Posted by Noa on June 3, 2000, at 12:48:40
In reply to Life ache update- thanks for your responses, posted by me-but-not-me on June 2, 2000, at 21:18:13
Hi, mbnm!
I can relate to the idea of cleaning the bed. A couple of months ago, I finally got around to doing that. It was a finite, do-able job, and with a reward at the end.
You sound more active, making calls and all. That is a good sign.
Ironically, it sounds like the prospect of losing insurance is mobilizing you to take care of youself now. Are you in the care of a psychiatrist? What about a good endocrine workup?
BTW, why are you losing your insurnance next month anyway?
Reward yourself for getting up and going to work. Every little thing is a big achievement, and deserves acknowledgment.
Keep in touch.
Posted by Noa on June 3, 2000, at 12:52:11
In reply to Re: Life aches, posted by shar on June 3, 2000, at 0:14:29
Shar, I agree that m's coining the phrase "life-ache" is brilliant.
Shar, I also don't let anyone in my apartment. Last week I was at a friend's apartment and we were chatting about something apartment related when I realized she had never even seen mine, because I have only known her for about 18 months and it has been about two years since I started being a total no-holds-barred slob at home. I felt bad, because I have been at her place many times. I would like to be able to go back to being "normal" in the sense of inviting friends over. Someday.
Posted by claire 7 on June 3, 2000, at 16:57:23
In reply to Re: Life aches » shar, posted by Noa on June 3, 2000, at 12:52:11
Noa: Listening to your problems, I can't help but
wonder if you're not spending too much time on psychobabble. It doesn't seem possible that you could be devoting much thought to your job, and of course you can't clean your apartment, because you seem to be psychobabbling every waking hour. I'm sure you'd feel better if you didn't make your "condition" the sole focus of your life. Is there any other activity you could engage in? Maybe a furry pet would help.Just trying to be helpful.
ealized she had never even seen mine, because I have only known her for about 18 months and it has been about two years since I started being a total no-holds-barred slob at home. I felt bad, because I have been at her place many times. I would like to be able to go back to being "normal" in the sense of inviting friends over. Someday.
Posted by KarenB on June 3, 2000, at 18:00:20
In reply to Re: Life aches, posted by claire 7 on June 3, 2000, at 16:57:23
>It doesn't seem possible that you could be devoting much thought to your job, and of course you can't clean your apartment, because you seem to be psychobabbling every waking hour."
Every waking hour? That's quite a presumption to make about someone you don't know.
>I'm sure you'd feel better if you didn't make your "condition" the sole focus of your life.
If it were the "sole focus of her life," I doubt she would have much to share. I find what Noa has to offer here of immeasurable value. Most of what I have seen written by her is others-centered and of an encouraging nature.
> Just trying to be helpful.Really?
Karen
Posted by claire 7 on June 3, 2000, at 18:01:55
In reply to Re: Life aches, posted by claire 7 on June 3, 2000, at 16:57:23
> I also wonder, Noa, if all the time you devote to helping others solve their problems might not be better spent on solving your own problems. Is it possible that all your noaing responses--helpful as they are, I'm sure---are just a convenient way for you to avoid addressing what are by your own admission serious problems in your own life?
Just a thought. Hugs and good luck!!!
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> Noa: Listening to your problems, I can't help but
> wonder if you're not spending too much time on psychobabble. It doesn't seem possible that you could be devoting much thought to your job, and of course you can't clean your apartment, because you seem to be psychobabbling every waking hour. I'm sure you'd feel better if you didn't make your "condition" the sole focus of your life. Is there any other activity you could engage in? Maybe a furry pet would help.
>
> Just trying to be helpful.
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> ealized she had never even seen mine, because I have only known her for about 18 months and it has been about two years since I started being a total no-holds-barred slob at home. I felt bad, because I have been at her place many times. I would like to be able to go back to being "normal" in the sense of inviting friends over. Someday.
Posted by KarenB on June 3, 2000, at 19:36:47
In reply to Re: Life aches, posted by claire 7 on June 3, 2000, at 18:01:55
> > I also wonder, Noa, if all the time you devote to helping others solve their problems might not be better spent on solving your own problems. Is it possible that all your noaing responses--helpful as they are, I'm sure---are just a convenient way for you to avoid addressing what are by your own admission serious problems in your own life?
>
> Just a thought. Hugs and good luck!!!
Dear "claire,"You're flailing wildly. Try not to hurt yourself, would you?
Sounds a lot like another "persona" we know.
Karen
Posted by me-but-not-me on June 3, 2000, at 20:03:07
In reply to Re: Life aches, posted by KarenB on June 3, 2000, at 19:36:47
Wow, I was totally taken aback at Claire's posts. The tone used was totally uncalled for, even if she did think she had 'advice' for Noa.
Granted, I am 'new' around here but I would never have had the courage to post in my dark hour had it not been for posts I have read by Noa and the others courageous enough to take off their masks here. This IS a form of therapy for some of us, including me.
Noa and others, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for sharing of yourselves here. I understand how writing advice to others can be helpful to oneself as well - perhaps Claire was projecting? I do that when I can't see my own forest for the trees...
Me
Posted by Civilla T on June 3, 2000, at 20:14:59
In reply to Re: Life aches, posted by KarenB on June 3, 2000, at 19:36:47
Dear "karen"
Sarcasm and accusations are not the answer, are they? Two wrongs don't make a right, do they?
I understand that you may be reacting out of concern for Noa's feelings, but claire has feelings too. Nobody deserves to be ridiculed.
Civilla
PS I think you'll find that Noa is capable of evaluating and responding to any advice on her own. Let's not escalate this OK?
> Dear "claire,"
>
> You're flailing wildly. Try not to hurt yourself, would you?
>
> Sounds a lot like another "persona" we know.
>
> Karen
Posted by KarenB on June 3, 2000, at 20:28:32
In reply to Re: Life aches » KarenB, posted by Civilla T on June 3, 2000, at 20:14:59
> but claire has feelings too. Nobody deserves to be ridiculed.
Of course, you're right. And who would understand "claire's" feelings better than you, "Civilla?"Thanks for setting me straight.
Karen
Posted by claire 7 on June 3, 2000, at 21:16:30
In reply to Re: Life aches, posted by KarenB on June 3, 2000, at 20:28:32
>Jeez. I don't understand why people are responding so negatively to my attempts to answer a cry for help. Maybe Elizabeth could help, here. What was it? Help-rejecting complaints? Aren't my efforts civil? (They are my sincere thoughts, by the way. I just never would have thought to voice them if not for Noa's example.)
And sorry, Karen, your guess is wrong. Do you really think there's only one person in the world who finds this type of help offensive? Look at your response. Why did what I say offend you?Hugs, love ya, and good luck!
but claire has feelings too. Nobody deserves to be ridiculed.
>
>
> Of course, you're right. And who would understand "claire's" feelings better than you, "Civilla?"
>
> Thanks for setting me straight.
>
> Karen
Posted by shar on June 3, 2000, at 21:54:10
In reply to Re: Life aches, posted by claire 7 on June 3, 2000, at 18:01:55
> > I also wonder, Noa, if all the time you devote to helping others solve their problems might not be better spent on solving your own problems. Is it possible that all your noaing responses--helpful as they are, I'm sure---are just a convenient way for you to avoid addressing what are by your own admission serious problems in your own life?
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> Just a thought. Hugs and good luck!!!
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> > Noa: Listening to your problems, I can't help but
> > wonder if you're not spending too much time on psychobabble. It doesn't seem possible that you could be devoting much thought to your job, and of course you can't clean your apartment, because you seem to be psychobabbling every waking hour. I'm sure you'd feel better if you didn't make your "condition" the sole focus of your life. Is there any other activity you could engage in? Maybe a furry pet would help.
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> > ealized she had never even seen mine, because I have only known her for about 18 months and it has been about two years since I started being a total no-holds-barred slob at home. I felt bad, because I have been at her place many times. I would like to be able to go back to being "normal" in the sense of inviting friends over. Someday.
Posted by shar on June 3, 2000, at 21:57:00
In reply to Re: Life aches » KarenB, posted by Civilla T on June 3, 2000, at 20:14:59
> Dear "karen"
>
> Sarcasm and accusations are not the answer, are they? Two wrongs don't make a right, do they?
>
> I understand that you may be reacting out of concern for Noa's feelings, but claire has feelings too. Nobody deserves to be ridiculed.
>
> Civilla
>
> PS I think you'll find that Noa is capable of evaluating and responding to any advice on her own. Let's not escalate this OK?
>
> > Dear "claire,"
> >
> > You're flailing wildly. Try not to hurt yourself, would you?
> >
> > Sounds a lot like another "persona" we know.
> >
> > Karen
Posted by Civilla T on June 3, 2000, at 22:22:16
In reply to Civilla T = boBB (no post), posted by shar on June 3, 2000, at 21:57:00
Shar- I'm not boBB. This is getting a little silly. I don't even know why I'm responding, you will still believe whatever you want. But really I'm not boBB. Civilla :-)
PS I'm not Rodney King either but can't we all just get along?
Posted by shar on June 3, 2000, at 22:40:04
In reply to Re: Life aches, posted by claire 7 on June 3, 2000, at 21:16:30
Noa,
Thanks for talking about your experiences; this is an area where I really do often feel that nobody else could have this problem.I am really regretting that your information was thrown back at you by another poster as it was.
Seems just plain mean and pointless to me. I hope you can just consider the source and not get hurt by it.S
Posted by KarenB on June 4, 2000, at 1:18:56
In reply to Noa--Can you consider the source?, posted by shar on June 3, 2000, at 22:40:04
> Noa,
> Thanks for talking about your experiences; this is an area where I really do often feel that nobody else could have this problem.
>
> I am really regretting that your information was thrown back at you by another poster as it was.
> Seems just plain mean and pointless to me. I hope you can just consider the source and not get hurt by it.
>
> SI agree. This whole thing seems rather transparent to me: an effort to provoke us all to understand how truly awful it must be to receive unsolicited advice. The difference is, Noa didn't pour it all out on the table, an act which would seem to many to be a cry for help, warranting the limited type of intervention available to us through the written word. I think she just happened to be there at the wrong moment and was in no way deserving of what I saw as a personal attack. It was anything but civil. I just hope you weren't hurt, Noa, because you certainly didn't have it coming.
There are many here - an extraordinary number in my opinion - who have very real, sincere concern and compassion for their fellow sufferers. I for one am blessed they are here. Further, I do not believe these individuals are engaging in self-avoidance or denial of their own problems through their desire to assist those in need. Sometimes those in the most pain are able to relate and help the most.
Both messages today to Noa appeared to me both mean spirited and without true concern. If "claire" honestly cannot see that, I don't even know what to say. But, after all, I don't think I'm talking to anyone named claire or Civilla in the first place but rather one troubled individual who has created several identities to support his own opinions and agenda. Dropping commas and creating run-on sentences cannot hide the intentions of one's heart, especially when the signature thread of hostility and aggression is so evident.
This is just my humble opinion. Nothing over which to get one's panties (or shorts?) in a twist. I'm done with this conversation.
For the rest of you, I am sorry to have stooped. I just believed it to be worth it to back up a friend. Blessings to you all. Even you, with all the new names.
Karen
Posted by Civilla T on June 4, 2000, at 8:12:33
In reply to Re: Life aches » KarenB, posted by Civilla T on June 3, 2000, at 20:14:59
> Dear "karen"
>
> Sarcasm and accusations are not the answer, are they? Two wrongs don't make a right, do they?
>
> I understand that you may be reacting out of concern for Noa's feelings, but claire has feelings too. Nobody deserves to be ridiculed.
>
> Civilla
>
> PS I think you'll find that Noa is capable of evaluating and responding to any advice on her own. Let's not escalate this OK?
Noa-I hope you didn't think I was taking the other side against you. I saw it more as stopping all the attack and counterattack. I thought I knew you well enough to think you could take care of yourself without someone else attacking another person on your behalf.
I've always admired you and do think you are very courageous to share personal information in this format-I NEVER would.
I hope you have a good day and thanks for all you've given to the people at Psychobabble.
Civilla
>
> > Dear "claire,"
> >
> > You're flailing wildly. Try not to hurt yourself, would you?
> >
> > Sounds a lot like another "persona" we know.
> >
> > Karen
Posted by claire 7 on June 4, 2000, at 8:16:41
In reply to Claire 7 = boBB (no post), posted by shar on June 3, 2000, at 21:54:10
Honestly, I'm not boBB. But whatI am is a little sorry this morning that I let my exasperation get away from me last night. I was trying to make a point, and in my opinion a valid point. If I didn't see Noa as a strong person I wouldn't have made the point at her expense, even though it was
Noa who triggered my desire to make a point in the first place.This desire to believe claire is civilla is boBB
is perhaps a protective one---believing there is only one person who feels this way may make you
feel more secure in your beliefs, and make you less likely to question them. So be it. >At any rate, I am sorry I made the rash decision to launch into this. I didn't make my point, apparently, and therefore caused unnecessary consternation.
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