Shown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Louisa on May 31, 2000, at 14:03:18
I've been doing really well the past few months --Paxil 40mg at night, and Wellbutrin SR15omg in the morning. I've been working nonstop on my dissertation, and feeling confident about finishing and confident about the quality of my work.
And then came yesterday. I got a chapter back from my advisor, who trashed it. Badly organized... too much stuff I didn't need... too much stuff I didn't have... A month of work down the drain, and not a lot of time left (for various reasons, I MUST finish by the beginning of September).
And today, I feel SO LOW. I can't even smile. I keep wanting to drop the whole dissertation, but then I don't have a career, and I'd be so ashamed that I just can't imagine living. I don't feel actively suicidal, but I do feel like I wish a bus would just take me out.
If I'm going to feel like this everytime I hand in another chapter, or get a bad review, there's not much point in my going on.
Anyone have any suggestions about how to cope with something like this? I really don't think it's a meds question, because everything was working fine until 10:30 a.m. yesterday, when I got the chapter back. And now I feel like hell.
Louisa
Posted by medlib on May 31, 2000, at 17:36:18
In reply to How to cope with a sudden low, posted by Louisa on May 31, 2000, at 14:03:18
Louisa--
Extreme rejection sensitivity is a common symptom of depression, particularly the atypical version.
So, #1--Your reaction may be more about how sudden, unexpected disappointment interacts with your disease than about what triggered this response--your dissertation. It helps a bit to recognize this as a repeating personal pattern you can anticipate, for which you need to develop coping strategies--sort of like severe stage fright or extreme exam anxiety. All are ego-evaluation crises. A therapist or self-help book may be of some assistance here.
Once you can put a little distance btw. your emotional reaction and your academic problem, it is easier to bring problem-solving skills to bear. On to #2-- Recognize that you have become a contestant in a time-honored academic war game for which you don't know the rules; learn how to "play the game."
--Be aware that you're applying for admission to an exclusive group--expect to be hazed before being accepted. Be prepared to react with equanimity to the completely absurd, the utterly irrelevant, and the absurdly impossible.
--Realize that the true nature of your assignment is to compose a treatise on your chosen topic exactly like your advisor would write it if s/he were doing it. It is helpful, therefore, to obtain copies of his/her thesis and most recent publications. The subject is irrelevant. You are looking for stylistic approaches, order of presentations--in short, a template you can plug into.
--Accept that this is an endurance contest. The ONLY aptitude you need to succeed is persistence. Therefore, cultivate a plug-it-in-and-grind-it-out attitude; harness it to dogged determination and strip it of every last vestige of individuality or ego involvement.
--Know that your first chapter is *supposed* to be shredded to pieces--everyone's is; that's your advisor's job. This is academic boot camp--the individual *must* be destroyed before a good "soldier" can be built. Your only goal should be to put one foot (word) after another until you cross the finish line.
--Do not be deterred if, when you have crafted a product that satisfies your advisor, another member of your committee objects to your approach and demands revisions which contradict your advisor's demands. Expect to have to broker a compromise, but remember who's commander of this squad.
--Rent a storage locker for your temper and your sanity; stow both for the duration. You might as well get one big enough to hold reason, logic, talent, and relevance. You won't need them for this undertaking.
--You have "won" the game when you have produced a product that reflects well on your advisor. You may then use that advisor as a principle professional reference.
--Remember that your advisor has a vested interest in your completion (after a suitably tortured Inquisition, of course); after a certain amount of time, s/he will be willing to pass on anything finished which doesn't completely embarrass him/her.Well, that's more than enough of that. I could blather on with several more pages of cynical technicalities, but I trust you've gotten the drift by now--the whole process has nothing whatever to do with you as a person. It's about playing the role of a tough, relentless, but loyal, soldier for 3 months; time to don your bullet-proof vest.
Try to find a buddy in Purgatory--some one to bitch with and co-critique. Schedule regular humor breaks and set aside at least half-a-day per week to reconnect with the real world. It and you will still be there when this ordeal is over.
Well wishes---medlib
Posted by bob on May 31, 2000, at 17:49:05
In reply to How to cope with a sudden low, posted by Louisa on May 31, 2000, at 14:03:18
Hi Louisa
I snuck a peek at your email -- please, tell me you're not at ILS! If that were the case, I'd say escape while you still have the chance! ;^)
The first thing that you have to realize about doing the big D is that dissertating is a cause for depression itself, so you might actually be properly diagnosed as having "double depression" (or even triple depression!) if you'd be depressed even if you weren't writing a dissertation. Anyway, you may not be able to do so, but putting it aside for a day or two and taking care of some other matters in your life, just to put some space between yourself and the EVENT of receiving that feedback (which is often at least 50% of the trauma), might be a good thing to do. I know it's difficult, but stepping away from your writing every once in a while can give your conscious mind a bit of a rest while your subconscious keeps rewriting -- you may have a different perspective on it when you do pick it up again.
Now, if you can put that away, realize just where you are and what you are doing. The fact that you are a PhD student where you are means you're already within some ridiculously small fraction of a percentage point from the top of your field. You wouldn't be there if your own ideas had no merit.
Next thing to remember is that the game of academe at your level is like taking a dive into shark-infested waters. Are you going to be bait, or another shark? The rhetoric of academics at that level of the game is rarely kind or supportive. The program I was in was ranked regularly as one of the top five in the country, and our faculty could be brutal at times. Not because we did something to deserve it, and not because they were mean nasty people -- that is just the name of the game. I call it saber-rattling. If you can learn how to face this sort of "feedback" down, you will soon be able to dish it right back at them. From that day on, you'll know how to handle article reviewers with agendas, questioners at conference presentations who just want to score a point for their own theory at the expense of you, and so on. Not only will you know how to handle them, you'll probably be able to shred them ... like I said, it ain't pretty, but it's the name of the game at your level.
Finally, once you've realized this much, take another look at the feedback. Share it, if you have someone you can trust to help, with a colleague and try to look for what might be reasonable feedback and where your advisor is flat-out wrong. Don't give up on this stuff, if it really is important to you. Try to work in any "corrections" with what you really think should stay, and develop your arguments for why it should stay. Although your advisor's name is going to be on not just your dissertation but your career (aren't academic bloodlines such a lovely thing?), it's still YOUR dissertation and you've got to do some thinking for yourself.
Again, you wouldn't be where you are if you weren't up to the task.
cheers,
bobPS: if you ARE at ILS and your advisor is RS, then I'd grovel, beg forgiveness, and then write exactly what he thinks you should say. That, or just start running -- pull a Forrest Gump -- and get as far away as you possibly can. ;^)
Posted by ChrisK on June 1, 2000, at 7:02:18
In reply to How to cope with a sudden low, posted by Louisa on May 31, 2000, at 14:03:18
Three years ago I was working in a chemical plant as an engineer and had a boss who was a workalohic and could never be pleased. I did a large group of experiments to optimize a process and wrote a fairly large report documenting the procedures and results. I ran it through my counterparts in QC and R&D as well as a few other engineers. Everyone understood it and told me it was nice work. I turned it into my boss in order for it to be catalogued and the process changes to be made. It came back a day later with more red writing on it than any other paper or report I had ever written. It really brought me down and destroyed any confidence or trust I had for that boss ever again.
Anyway I reprinted the report and asked his boss to look at it behind my boss's back. He liked it with some minor changes. It may not have been the best idea as you can really cross people by going over their head but the report did impress his boss more than him.
I guess the lesson was to get several opinions from people in similar positions before it's submitted. Then if it is completely rejected by your adviser, ask the dean just to review it for some constructive criticism. It rarely hurts if you put it in terms of constructive criticism. You may get enough ammunition to shoot down your adviser's assesment.
I know it's a tough time and they can be real a-holes but eventually you will get through.
Stay with it,
Chris
Posted by Cindy W on June 1, 2000, at 10:17:30
In reply to Re: How to cope with a sudden low, posted by ChrisK on June 1, 2000, at 7:02:18
> Three years ago I was working in a chemical plant as an engineer and had a boss who was a workalohic and could never be pleased. I did a large group of experiments to optimize a process and wrote a fairly large report documenting the procedures and results. I ran it through my counterparts in QC and R&D as well as a few other engineers. Everyone understood it and told me it was nice work. I turned it into my boss in order for it to be catalogued and the process changes to be made. It came back a day later with more red writing on it than any other paper or report I had ever written. It really brought me down and destroyed any confidence or trust I had for that boss ever again.
>
> Anyway I reprinted the report and asked his boss to look at it behind my boss's back. He liked it with some minor changes. It may not have been the best idea as you can really cross people by going over their head but the report did impress his boss more than him.
>
> I guess the lesson was to get several opinions from people in similar positions before it's submitted. Then if it is completely rejected by your adviser, ask the dean just to review it for some constructive criticism. It rarely hurts if you put it in terms of constructive criticism. You may get enough ammunition to shoot down your adviser's assesment.
>
> I know it's a tough time and they can be real a-holes but eventually you will get through.
>
> Stay with it,
>
> ChrisLouisa, I had to do a dissertation too...and it's a bear doing that! Medlib was right, that they have to tear apart your first few efforts (that's part of their job and your "initiation"). Just keep at it and remember that sooner or later, you'll be done and you'll never have to do it again!--Cindy W
Posted by Sara T on June 1, 2000, at 13:59:23
In reply to How to cope with a sudden low, posted by Louisa on May 31, 2000, at 14:03:18
> I've been doing really well the past few months --Paxil 40mg at night, and Wellbutrin SR15omg in the morning. I've been working nonstop on my dissertation, and feeling confident about finishing and confident about the quality of my work.
>
> And then came yesterday. I got a chapter back from my advisor, who trashed it. Badly organized... too much stuff I didn't need... too much stuff I didn't have... A month of work down the drain, and not a lot of time left (for various reasons, I MUST finish by the beginning of September).
>
> And today, I feel SO LOW. I can't even smile. I keep wanting to drop the whole dissertation, but then I don't have a career, and I'd be so ashamed that I just can't imagine living. I don't feel actively suicidal, but I do feel like I wish a bus would just take me out.
>
> If I'm going to feel like this everytime I hand in another chapter, or get a bad review, there's not much point in my going on.
>
> Anyone have any suggestions about how to cope with something like this? I really don't think it's a meds question, because everything was working fine until 10:30 a.m. yesterday, when I got the chapter back. And now I feel like hell.
>
> LouisaLouisa,
I have been through Art School and Architecture School, and at both places you put your work up for formal critiques from your faculty quite often. They trash you publicly after you've been up 3 nights straight trying to finish your project. It was devastating to me. But finally I learned the difference between constructive criticism that you can learn from and destructive criticism which is mostly mean to serve someone else's agenda or ego. I had to learn to DEPERSONALIZE the criticism (not easy). I agree with the suggestion to put the dissertation down for a day and switch gears, take a breather, then go back and look at the remarks with some distance and see if there is something to be learned there, or if he's just serving his own ends. In the end, however you handle the dissertation vis-a-vis the advisor's personality, if you can learn to de-personalize it and put a distance there, you will not jeopardise your own self worth.
Feel better soon,
Sara T.
Posted by Louisa on June 1, 2000, at 17:12:02
In reply to How to cope with a sudden low, posted by Louisa on May 31, 2000, at 14:03:18
I really appreciate all your thoughtful responses. This dissertation thing is really a bitch sometimes.
The world seems at least a little bit brighter than it did a couple of days ago. I've started working on the revisions, and while it isn't exactly joyful, I'm not quite as upset about it as I was. My advisor's still WRONG, of course, but maybe he's a little bit right, too. In any case, he's the one I need to please, right?
I'm meeting with Herr Doktor Professor tomorrow afternoon, and while I hope he'll be kinder in person, I don't know for sure. At least I'll be able to tell him I'm working on the changes!
Thanks for the perspective --
Louisa
Posted by shar on June 1, 2000, at 22:38:28
In reply to Thanks, posted by Louisa on June 1, 2000, at 17:12:02
Louisa,
The posters here have given some excellent suggestions. The chair of my committee called this process "trial by fire." Too true.I would encourage your perspective to include a LOT of "getting it out the door" ideation. Accept that this is NOT your "magnum opus" and your goal is to do a decent job writing a credible report so you can graduate. Period.
Turn in acceptable work your committee will sign off on and you feel ok about. Then, when it's out the door, your real career will begin.
I don't remember meeting any diss. students who were very "up" -- so just persevere, get it done, graduate, and you'll feel much better....
Good luck!!
S
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