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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Greg on May 19, 2000, at 8:09:12
Good Morning.
I've been told that I have an addictive personality (it's true, it's true). It's not only confined to alcoholism or drug abuse (in my younger days) , but I also obsess over things like eating. I'll go thru periods of a month or two where I eat peanut butter by the jar, or orange sherbet by the 1/2 gallon. It's always something. My current thing is my involvement with my son's little league. I umpire, scorekeep, coach the team, do field maintance, I'm building a website for the team and am working on getting new jerseys (very cool looking!) for the team for the playoffs. I just can't seem to do things in moderation, it's all or nothing.I seem to build a tolerance to meds very quickly. Could this be due to an addictive personality? Might there be a correlation there? I know it has to be partially due to my chemical makeup. But I'm always obsessing over something. I'd like to hear any thoughts from anyone who goes thru this or if you just have an opinion on the subject.
Tx,
Greg
Posted by Racer on May 19, 2000, at 15:04:33
In reply to Addictive Personality/Effectiveness of Meds?, posted by Greg on May 19, 2000, at 8:09:12
What a great question! Something I've mused on, but never considered important enough to think about seriously...
I do the same things with what I call ruts. Nutella is my version of your peanut butter, though I do eat the two together. I'll go for a month eating Nutella and Peanut Butter for lunch each day, or my latest: cinnamon toast with my bacon and eggs.
And drugs? I can take 80 mg of valium and walk around and speak reasonably. It scares the hell out of doctors, let me tell you! Some drugs knock me on my butt at a tiny dose, usually those that effect blood pressure. Most sedatives, though, require such enormous doses that they basically can't be given me.
ADs usually take larger than average doses to get therapeutic, too.
I wonder how much of this is chemical? Maybe our chemistry is so sensitive we constantly react, so we build fast tolerances? Maybe our symptoms are a subconciosu way to self medicate through behavior rather than drugs?
Anyone else have any ideas? This is really fascinating to me...
Posted by CarolAnn on May 19, 2000, at 16:30:51
In reply to Hm... That could explain a lot..., posted by Racer on May 19, 2000, at 15:04:33
I'm the same way with food and drugs. Even with over the counter stuff I have to take twice as much as the label says in order to get an effect. It's very annoying, because when I need prescription pain-killers, I need so much more than average. I had a killer ear infection in January, and the doctor prescribed Vicodin and told me I would only need 1/2 to 1 pill for pain. I got no relief at all unless I took two pills at a time. Luckily, the doctor believed me about having high tolerance and didn't have a problem prescribing more pills. But I always hate having to explain, because I know a lot of doctors might consider that "drug seeking behavior"!
I wish someone would do some kind of study on people with our type of brain chemistry, it would be nice if they could find out some specific AD's for our "kind". CarolAnn
Posted by Racer on May 19, 2000, at 17:09:57
In reply to Re: me too..., posted by CarolAnn on May 19, 2000, at 16:30:51
Actually, I do know something more that I had forgotten:
I have a deformed collegen molecule. It's part of a connective tissue disorder, and it has been linked to higher than normal tolerance for sedatives, etc. I have wondered if it was part and parcel of the depression, and all that goes along with it...
Hm...
Posted by juniper on May 20, 2000, at 1:54:14
In reply to Re: me too..., posted by Racer on May 19, 2000, at 17:09:57
this is a really interesting thread...i'd say i have an addictive personality also (a side note... could or is OCD classified as an addiction?), and i have always been facinated by how my body reacts to certain drugs. it just doesn't seem to have any concept of how it is supposed to react and to what doses. a few years ago i was taking prozac and had my blood levels assessed, the results were along the lines of i had only half the amount in my blood as would have been expected by the dose i was on.
i'd thought that i may have trained my body in a way, as years ago i developed a nasty addiction (o, that again) to laxatives (in a futile effort of becoming a bulimic), and i'd take horribly large amounts (in the 30-90 pills a shot range). it probably only makes sense in conception (not in application), but i figured that maybe my body caught on, and figured some quick ways to work around medications which it began applying to my ADs.i wonder if there are any studies which link tollerance to certain drugs to different personality traits?
juniper
Posted by dls on May 20, 2000, at 11:47:54
In reply to Addictive Personality/Effectiveness of Meds?, posted by Greg on May 19, 2000, at 8:09:12
Hi Greg,
Wow, deja vu (sp)!!!! That sounds so familiar. I get so obsessive about my job that I haven't taken a vacation in 4 years. I used to get totally involved with all of our 4 kids activities, but now that they are grown, it's work and/or medical concerns that occupy most of my time.
Like you, I seem to derive short term benefit from meds - especially ADs. My endo says I have an addictive personality and the psychiatrist I've been seeing for a short time is still confounded as to what to diagnose.
If you find any answers, please share.
Be well,
dls
Posted by Cindy W on May 20, 2000, at 12:13:01
In reply to Re: me too..., posted by juniper on May 20, 2000, at 1:54:14
> this is a really interesting thread...i'd say i have an addictive personality also (a side note... could or is OCD classified as an addiction?), and i have always been facinated by how my body reacts to certain drugs. it just doesn't seem to have any concept of how it is supposed to react and to what doses. a few years ago i was taking prozac and had my blood levels assessed, the results were along the lines of i had only half the amount in my blood as would have been expected by the dose i was on.
> i'd thought that i may have trained my body in a way, as years ago i developed a nasty addiction (o, that again) to laxatives (in a futile effort of becoming a bulimic), and i'd take horribly large amounts (in the 30-90 pills a shot range). it probably only makes sense in conception (not in application), but i figured that maybe my body caught on, and figured some quick ways to work around medications which it began applying to my ADs.
>
> i wonder if there are any studies which link tollerance to certain drugs to different personality traits?
>
> juniperJuniper, I don't think OCD is an addictive thing. From what I've read and what I've experienced (having OCD), OCD is different from an addiction, because using an addictive substance usually provides pleasure, while for OCD, engaging in the ritualistic behaviors or whatever just provides tension relief but is VERY distressing, because l) you know better--it isn't normal to say take care of frogs for 6 hours per day, 2) it interferes so much with social and work functioning (I guess drugs/alcohol could too), and 3) the patterns shift over time (as a kid, I was into order and organizing, and now I'm a hoarder and collector and into CHAOS).--Cindy W
Posted by Paul Jay on May 21, 2000, at 8:30:16
In reply to Re: me too..., posted by juniper on May 20, 2000, at 1:54:14
Same here -- I have what seems to be an addictive personality, and I have difficulties with medications: there's no effect, or the effect fades and doesn't return even after a long break, or I have to take twice as much, or there's no increased benifit from even four times as much, or the effect from each dose is very brief.
If these two things are related, I think the addictive part could be caused by whatever makes the meds so generally ineffective -- the brain might be resistant or tolerant in a similar way to its own chemicals. Perhaps the brain can adapt in part to a specific deficiency, but not as well to an overall problem, leaving an unfulfilled desire for something to change its state; thus the link between the wide ranging effect on medications and the addictive tendancy?
In my own case at least I think the problem might lie with the receptors. The only drug I've taken recently that worked as it oughta was a beta blocker, which operates by preventing the stimulation of receptors, rather than causing or encouraging it directly or down the line.
Posted by dove on May 21, 2000, at 11:29:06
In reply to Re: me too..., posted by Paul Jay on May 21, 2000, at 8:30:16
I know this is a serious subject, but ya'll have me laughing. I also have very similar problems and reactions to meds like ya'll. On my first visit to my p-doc, he talked at length about placebo effect at which I laughed. I wish I could have a placebo effect, please give me one.
I had a c-section with my last baby, with an epidural, as the doc cut into my tummy both of my legs shot up and I yowled in pain. They couldn't believe I could still move my legs or feel. When I was just out of high school I had a major blinding migraine, went to the clinic, they shot me up with demoral (or something) warned me that I'd been knocked out in about a half hour through to the next day. Went home and waited... Went to bed, still in pain, and waited... Finally returned to the clinic, blood-pressure still elavated due to the pain, and they couldn't believe that I was still awake.
Lots of examples, but I won't bore everyone to death :-) I will say that my tolerance builds rapidly to all meds, and in particular, the meds that are *not* addictive. I have built no tolerance to Adderall, but to serzone, wellbutrin, amitriptyline, ect...
And, I have a very addictive personality, although my obsessions are cut short by my absolute chaotic, easily distracted and forgetfull personality. I've struggled with alcoholism, hair pulling, skin scratching, food obsessions (tamale's, Thai massaman curry/springrolls and Blue Bunny ice cream-cones), and book author obsessions (as in: I must own every book this particular author wrote.). Alas, the obsession seems to be silenced as a new one rears its head.
Blessing or Curse. don't really know. I've never finished a project in my entire life, aside from the two mongths I was on Prozac, but I definitely become obsessed with actively pursuing these interests.
dove
Posted by Janice on May 21, 2000, at 20:37:17
In reply to Addictive Personality/Effectiveness of Meds?, posted by Greg on May 19, 2000, at 8:09:12
Don't want to put a damper on your great theory but I am also a very addictive/compulsive type person, who is generally extremely sensitive to medications for about 1 month. Then a tolerance developes and I quickly go up to an average or slightly less than average dose of whatever medication I'm trying. This is my general pattern.
good theory--I could be an acception
Janice
Posted by ChrisK on May 22, 2000, at 6:43:40
In reply to Addictive Personality/Effectiveness of Meds?, posted by Greg on May 19, 2000, at 8:09:12
I like so many others here also have a very addictive personality. It did start mostly to be noticed with alcohol. I wouldn't try street drugs because I knew how easily I became addicted to alcohol.
I also became obsessed with thoughts at times that were very frightening. The one med that has worked wonders for me is Zyprexa. It has really cleared up the obsessions (which I guess are a little different than the addictions but it may be worth a discussion with your doc.)
Zyprexa is listed as an anti-psychotic and if you look through the archives here there have been several threads about it.
Posted by juniper on May 22, 2000, at 19:11:08
In reply to Re: me too... OCD, posted by Cindy W on May 20, 2000, at 12:13:01
Cindy,
i agree with you that OCD is different than addiction, but i wonder if your first two points could also apply to addiction? of course, it seems like almost every mental disorder blurs the lines and encompasses parts of others. most addictions i can think of provide either what could be termed pleasure or relief only momentarily also, and are more of a dysfunctional coping mechanism (like OCD?).
then i guess the issue comes up---who really cares? classify it what you will, it doesn't change what it is, or how it feels.
but my main reason of writing was to tell you i used to own a tree frog named juniper.peace,
juniper
Posted by Cindy W on May 22, 2000, at 23:58:40
In reply to Re: me too... OCD... to cindy, posted by juniper on May 22, 2000, at 19:11:08
> Cindy,
> i agree with you that OCD is different than addiction, but i wonder if your first two points could also apply to addiction? of course, it seems like almost every mental disorder blurs the lines and encompasses parts of others. most addictions i can think of provide either what could be termed pleasure or relief only momentarily also, and are more of a dysfunctional coping mechanism (like OCD?).
> then i guess the issue comes up---who really cares? classify it what you will, it doesn't change what it is, or how it feels.
> but my main reason of writing was to tell you i used to own a tree frog named juniper.
>
> peace,
> juniperJuniper, it's cool that you used to have a treefrog named juniper! The ones who hang around at present I've named Phoney (who sits on the answering machine), Barbie (misnamed; is a boy; used to live in a barbecue pit), Bidet (hangs out around the toilet), Gar (who sits above the sink like a gargoyle in the bathroom), and Hoppy (obviously because she hops around a lot!).
The only reason to label something either an addiction, OCD, or whatever, is to guide treatment, I think...none of the maladaptive things feel very good and only help temporarily; I agree with you there! Attempting to label something is the "rumpelstiltskin effect" (naming it makes you feel at least you have sort of a handle on what's going on).--Cindy W
Posted by Skeeter on May 30, 2001, at 12:19:46
In reply to Addictive Personality/Effectiveness of Meds?, posted by Greg on May 19, 2000, at 8:09:12
Hey folks,
I've just recently self-diagnosed myself as having a "functional" addictive personality. After reading this thread I'm comforted to realize that I share many the same obsessions as you do. I can't do anything in moderation unless I know it will conflict with a personal goal such as the big meeting tomorrow a.m.(that's why I claim to be "functional"). I eat to extremes, but exercise to even more extremes to stay fit. I seldom drink more than two beers until I'm at the bar or party on Friday with no obligations for the next two days, then look out! I drink a pot of coffee everday before noon, Monday - Friday, but don't touch the stuff on the weekends. I seem to have monthly passions that I give 150% to only to lose interest when the next passion comes along.Is this a physical or mental condition? I would stongly like to be helped, but am not willing to be medicated. Is there any other options you are aware of????
Posted by Elizabeth on May 30, 2001, at 15:15:19
In reply to Re: me too..., posted by Skeeter on May 30, 2001, at 12:19:46
< description snipped >
> Is this a physical or mental condition? I would stongly like to be helped, but am not willing to be medicated. Is there any other options you are aware of????
I have found that it's not useful to think of mental disorders as being something other than physical: the "mind" is a function of the brain, not some supernatural entity. < g >
As you've discovered, you're not the only "serial obsessor" on the planet. There's no question in my mind that there is a neurological commonality among people with this trait. Unfortunately, we don't have much information about the neural substrates of temperamental traits at this time. My hope is that in my lifetime there will be significant progress in our understanding of the biology of temperament.
Anyway...in searching for treatments, I would look at medications that are known to be effective for ADHD, OCD, and impulsivity. This gives you a wide range of options: SSRIs, MAOIs, buspirone, bupropion, amphetamines, lithium, anticonvulsants, neuroleptics, opioid agonists and antagonists, ...
One other thought...I believe that ADHD is not strictly a bad thing: it's a temperament (i.e., it's part of the way that some people are born) that can be adaptive as well as maladaptive. A lot of people who have ADHD are unusually smart, creative, and sensitive, for example. This serial obsessing behaviour seems to be another such trait: it is a strength in some ways, not just a weakness. You might want to consider ways that you can reap the benefits of your temperament, while at the same time minimising the harm that results from it. This does not preclude using medication to make life more manageable, but you should be aware of the possibility that what you want to "treat" has its advantages as well as disadvantages.
-elizabeth
Posted by Skeeter on May 31, 2001, at 10:23:37
In reply to serial obsessors » Skeeter, posted by Elizabeth on May 30, 2001, at 15:15:19
Thank you for your response, Elizabeth! I have begun to weigh the benefits of this condition. Hopefully, my greater awareness/consciousness will afford me the power moderate the potential harmful actions. Thanks again! -Skeeter
Posted by Elizabeth on June 3, 2001, at 20:52:03
In reply to Re: serial obsessors, posted by Skeeter on May 31, 2001, at 10:23:37
> Thank you for your response, Elizabeth! I have begun to weigh the benefits of this condition. Hopefully, my greater awareness/consciousness will afford me the power moderate the potential harmful actions. Thanks again! -Skeeter
Sure. I'm a serial obsessor too, BTW. It probably sounds like a trivial thing but it does make life tough in a lot of ways, especially if you're depressed, etc. on top of it. On the other hand, it can be conducive to great accomplishments. It's a real 2-edged sword.
-elizabeth
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