![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jacquie on April 7, 2000, at 23:40:18
I have been taking celexa for three weeks now and wonder if
anyone else might be having problems with sleep. I fall
asleep at 9pm and wake up again at midinight, somethimes 3am
or 4am and then just get up at this point. Is it the Celexa
or is it me? If someone has some advice I would be most grateful
Thanks,much. jacquie
Posted by Liz on April 8, 2000, at 10:43:15
In reply to celexa sleep problems, posted by jacquie on April 7, 2000, at 23:40:18
> I have been taking celexa for three weeks now and wonder if
> anyone else might be having problems with sleep. I fall
> asleep at 9pm and wake up again at midinight, somethimes 3am
> or 4am and then just get up at this point. Is it the Celexa
> or is it me? If someone has some advice I would be most grateful
**************************************************
Jacquie, hi. I too have been taking Celexa just a short while, maybe two months now. I was having sleep difficulties just as you describe even before the medicine. However, part of my problem was that I was "self-medicating" with several glasses of wine virtually every night, so I would have no trouble falling asleep, but would always wake up and be wide awake at some point in the night. If it was before 2 AM, I would take some Exedrin PM to get back to sleep, otherwise, if it was later than 2, I would usually just toss and turn or have very shallow sleep the rest of the night. Since starting Celexa, I've been trying to determine if the sleep problem is even worse than before but of course, with the wine, it was just too hard to tell. My doc suggested (!) I reserve the wine for weekends or give it up entirely, which I have done now, for the most part for about 2 weeks. In an effort to help myself improve and feel better, I also started taking long power walks in the early evening, the time I used to spend relaxing with a glass of wine or two. That really helped me get over that hump! Then I found that I was not so sleepy early (duh!) and my late evenings were more fun and productive, which gave me a nice boost. I was also staying up later, so when I went to bed, I was really tired. To make a long story even longer, I still wake up at night, with or without wine, but I think the quality of my sleep is better. I do take Exedrin PM almost every night anyway, as insurance. You might want to try pushing your bed time 'til later and popping a couple of PMs at that time. The upshoot is that I can't really tell you unequivicably that Celexa interferes with sleep, but my suspicion is that it does. Hope this helps; maybe others out there have a less muddled answer. Good luck! Liz
Posted by jacquie on April 9, 2000, at 6:41:03
In reply to Re: celexa sleep problems, posted by Liz on April 8, 2000, at 10:43:15
> > I have been taking celexa for three weeks now and wonder if
> > anyone else might be having problems with sleep. I fall
> > asleep at 9pm and wake up again at midinight, somethimes 3am
> > or 4am and then just get up at this point. Is it the Celexa
> > or is it me? If someone has some advice I would be most grateful
> **************************************************
> Jacquie, hi. I too have been taking Celexa just a short while, maybe two months now. I was having sleep difficulties just as you describe even before the medicine. However, part of my problem was that I was "self-medicating" with several glasses of wine virtually every night, so I would have no trouble falling asleep, but would always wake up and be wide awake at some point in the night. If it was before 2 AM, I would take some Exedrin PM to get back to sleep, otherwise, if it was later than 2, I would usually just toss and turn or have very shallow sleep the rest of the night. Since starting Celexa, I've been trying to determine if the sleep problem is even worse than before but of course, with the wine, it was just too hard to tell. My doc suggested (!) I reserve the wine for weekends or give it up entirely, which I have done now, for the most part for about 2 weeks. In an effort to help myself improve and feel better, I also started taking long power walks in the early evening, the time I used to spend relaxing with a glass of wine or two. That really helped me get over that hump! Then I found that I was not so sleepy early (duh!) and my late evenings were more fun and productive, which gave me a nice boost. I was also staying up later, so when I went to bed, I was really tired. To make a long story even longer, I still wake up at night, with or without wine, but I think the quality of my sleep is better. I do take Exedrin PM almost every night anyway, as insurance. You might want to try pushing your bed time 'til later and popping a couple of PMs at that time. The upshoot is that I can't really tell you unequivicably that Celexa interferes with sleep, but my suspicion is that it does. Hope this helps; maybe others out there have a less muddled answer. Good luck! Liz
Liz, thanks for your advice. I went to the website mentalhealth.com (it's a good site) and sure enough there have been many complaints about Celexa and sleep problems so they suggest you take it during the day before noon. I started doing that yesterday and hope it helps. Maybe you could try the same? Do you like the Celexa? Have you found it has altered your view on the world or of the world?? I think it has in me. I am not so upset about trivial matters and seem to handle things with more calm and sensibility. I am curious what you think as you have been taking it only one month more than I. Have you had any other side effects and have they subsided?? I have night sweats sometimes and increased excitability...aka mania I suppose. Let me know! Thanks, Liz.
Posted by Liz on April 9, 2000, at 8:45:21
In reply to Re: celexa sleep problems, posted by jacquie on April 9, 2000, at 6:41:03
Jackie, nice to hear from you! I have always taken Celexa first thing in the morning, on the advice of my doctor. It was prescribed for me for OCD w/ underlying depression. I had just been in a rut, unmotivated, obsessive about some things and totally disinterested in other things, things I used to enjoy. I felt like I was just going through the motions of living - it was like watching someone else in a really boring movie. I felt detached from everything around me. Celexa alone may have taken the edge off things... I don't know. It sure made me tired during the day; I felt at times like I could fall asleep standing up. Of course it didn't help that I wasn't sleeping great at night. On my next visit to the doctor, he prescribed adderall, a stimulant. Now this combination has really helped me - my particular needs - I think. This is also about the time I found babbleland. Prior to this I think I believed that medicine alone was going to work some magic without any involvement from me, but after reading all the recent posts here, it began to occur to me that to feel better, I was going to have to do more on my own behalf than swallow a couple of pills. Perhaps the two drugs, or even the Celexa alone, got me to the point where I could think - take some sort of purposeful action - that would help propel me to where I wanted to be. Does that make sense? After reading some of the stories on this board, it occured to me that those who seem to have coped best with their disabilities were those who got pretty aggressive about their recovery. So I see the meds as a catalyst for that battle, not a cure. As to side effects from Celexa, I really hate the dry mouth thing and I also have had a feeling of stuffiness in my ears, but that is not constant. Night sweats? I had those before...I thought it was possibly hormonal. I just throw the covers off for awhile, then pull them back, then throw them off again - I get some exercise even while I'm in bed! I did not have any mania on Celexa alone, but shortly after I started adderall, I had two days of hypomania that my doctor said could have been triggered by the combination of the 2 drugs; they have been known to throw people into a bipolar episode. However, on those days I also had the first two days of my period and am convinced that had something to do with it. I had been taking 10 mgs. of Adderall twice a day with little or no noticable effect (much better concentration is about it) and then had several days on 15mgs, again the effect was not dramatic, then I had this hypomanic phase lasting about 2 days, then CRASH! Now I'm back to "normal" So even though my doctor asked me to stop the Adderall, I started taking it again after a few days. I know, I'm bad....but I like the two together. I think I was too mellow on Celexa alone. The only other problem was the delay of orgasm (or no orgasm) and that was a real bummer. I was in denial about that 'cause I didn't want to believe it was going to happen to me. Anyway, I think my husband and I have resolved that problem!;-) Take care, Liz (and let me know how things are going)
*************************************************
I have been taking celexa for three weeks now and wonder if
> > > anyone else might be having problems with sleep. I fall
> > > asleep at 9pm and wake up again at midinight, somethimes 3am
> > > or 4am and then just get up at this point. Is it the Celexa
> > > or is it me? If someone has some advice I would be most grateful
> > **************************************************
> > Jacquie, hi. I too have been taking Celexa just a short while, maybe two months now. I was having sleep difficulties just as you describe even before the medicine. However, part of my problem was that I was "self-medicating" with several glasses of wine virtually every night, so I would have no trouble falling asleep, but would always wake up and be wide awake at some point in the night. If it was before 2 AM, I would take some Exedrin PM to get back to sleep, otherwise, if it was later than 2, I would usually just toss and turn or have very shallow sleep the rest of the night. Since starting Celexa, I've been trying to determine if the sleep problem is even worse than before but of course, with the wine, it was just too hard to tell. My doc suggested (!) I reserve the wine for weekends or give it up entirely, which I have done now, for the most part for about 2 weeks. In an effort to help myself improve and feel better, I also started taking long power walks in the early evening, the time I used to spend relaxing with a glass of wine or two. That really helped me get over that hump! Then I found that I was not so sleepy early (duh!) and my late evenings were more fun and productive, which gave me a nice boost. I was also staying up later, so when I went to bed, I was really tired. To make a long story even longer, I still wake up at night, with or without wine, but I think the quality of my sleep is better. I do take Exedrin PM almost every night anyway, as insurance. You might want to try pushing your bed time 'til later and popping a couple of PMs at that time. The upshoot is that I can't really tell you unequivicably that Celexa interferes with sleep, but my suspicion is that it does. Hope this helps; maybe others out there have a less muddled answer. Good luck! Liz
> Liz, thanks for your advice. I went to the website mentalhealth.com (it's a good site) and sure enough there have been many complaints about Celexa and sleep problems so they suggest you take it during the day before noon. I started doing that yesterday and hope it helps. Maybe you could try the same? Do you like the Celexa? Have you found it has altered your view on the world or of the world?? I think it has in me. I am not so upset about trivial matters and seem to handle things with more calm and sensibility. I am curious what you think as you have been taking it only one month more than I. Have you had any other side effects and have they subsided?? I have night sweats sometimes and increased excitability...aka mania I suppose. Let me know! Thanks, Liz.
Posted by Cam W. on April 9, 2000, at 9:58:57
In reply to Re: celexa sleep problems, posted by Liz on April 9, 2000, at 8:45:21
Jacquie and Liz - Just a thought. It may not pan out, but may be worth a try. Perhaps you are metabolizing the Celexa a little faster than the rest of us (about 5% of those of European descent may) and the drug is wearing off by 2 a.m. You could try taking you dose at noon, to see if this helps. I have heard of Celexa sleep problems and have normally equated them to be similar to those of Paxil and Luvox. Like I said, this is a shot in the dark, but us an easy experiment. Try it for a couple of days and see if there are any changes in sleep patterns. Let me know the results. Good luck - Cam W.
Posted by liz on April 9, 2000, at 10:57:14
In reply to Re: celexa sleep problems, posted by Cam W. on April 9, 2000, at 9:58:57
Cam, thanks for your input. Question: I'm only taking 20mgs. of Celexa in the morning. Unitl I ask my doctor, would you recommend cutting that tablet in half, taking 10 mgs 2x a day, or should I double the dose? Also, in reference to the libido commentary: I tried a little experiment yesterday. You seemed to suggest that the best response to my increased libido/anorgasmia "problem" was a cold shower ;-) So I tested that theory and am posting the results here as best I can describe them: (Quit reading now if you're squeamish!)
Shower: OHGODDDDD-SH*T-BRRRRR-OWOWOWCH-GEEEZ-OOOHBRRRR-
DAM*-(SHIVER, SHIVER)-CHRI*T-BRRR-OUCH (get the picture?)The alternative:
mmmmmaaaaahooooohhhhhhyes!mmmmmmoooooohyeahohhbabyooohhhgodyesohgodogodohgodmmmooooooohhhOHGODOHGOD
OHOOOOOOGODDDDDDDDD!!!!!So I'm asking you again, (if you're still here), which would you really prefer? Just asking rhetorically, not coming on to you, although I'm hypomanic today, so who knows? Yours, Liz
(BTW, I did discover that the equipment is still working, it just needed a jump start :-)
_________________________________________________
Jacquie and Liz - Just a thought. It may not pan out, but may be worth a try. Perhaps you are metabolizing the Celexa a little faster than the rest of us (about 5% of those of European descent may) and the drug is wearing off by 2 a.m. You could try taking you dose at noon, to see if this helps. I have heard of Celexa sleep problems and have normally equated them to be similar to those of Paxil and Luvox. Like I said, this is a shot in the dark, but us an easy experiment. Try it for a couple of days and see if there are any changes in sleep patterns. Let me know the results. Good luck - Cam W.
Posted by Cam W. on April 9, 2000, at 11:58:18
In reply to Cam?, posted by liz on April 9, 2000, at 10:57:14
Liz - If you are still taking the Adderal, that could be where you are getting your "energy". Make sure to tell the doc you are still taking the Adderal, if you are. Tell hubby to relax on the technique or just think of housework :^)I don't like interfering with a doctor's therapy. You could try a 1/2 tablet twice daily until you talk to him. If it is not the Adderal, there is something energizing you. I really don't know which way to switch the dose (up or down), as either could help or make the situation worse (in terms of depession and libido. Whatever you and your doctor decide, give it a couple of weeks before you expect to see an effect (unless your depression increases - then call him/her ASAP). I think you are having what is known as an iatrogenic reaction to the medication (ie opposite reaction than what is expected). I'm sure that many ladies would like to trade places with you (at least for a weekend).
Oh, by the way, thanks for the visual [sarcasm]. My wife is working this weekend and you're not helping. [lol].
Sincerely - Cam W.
Posted by liz on April 9, 2000, at 13:21:27
In reply to Re: Liz, posted by Cam W. on April 9, 2000, at 11:58:18
I swear that laughter is the best medicine, if one can find some humor in things, and your response made me laugh! I'm happy to know I have not altogether lost my touch! Which med do you think I might be having this iatrogenic response to? The adderall? Yeah, I'll tell my doctor I'm back on it, right after I ask him if he's ever thrown anyone out of his office. No, really, I will. Couldn't it just be that I've found a new lease on life - that I'm happier and just want to share that? Maybe its wishful thinking, maybe its a placebo effect - I don't know. But it doesn't feel like a bad place. I can't say I'm energized in the sense that I'm hyperactive, in fact I'm more relaxed, but the Adderall has given me focus and the ability to concentrate. (I guess I didn't mention that I scored really high on the ADD survey, after my initial diagnosis.) Anyway, I don't believe the Celexa alone was the sole answer for me. In a phone consult with my doc, he brought up the possibility that the combination of an AD with a stimulant can trigger this latent bipolar effect or hypomania...well, I guess I'm repeating myself. Thanks for your advice. Hope your wife hurries home ;-) BTW: I meant the report on my experiment to be more audio than visual, but perhaps thats another difference between the sexes.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Liz - If you are still taking the Adderal, that could be where you are getting your "energy". Make sure to tell the doc you are still taking the Adderal, if you are. Tell hubby to relax on the technique or just think of housework :^)
>
> I don't like interfering with a doctor's therapy. You could try a 1/2 tablet twice daily until you talk to him. If it is not the Adderal, there is something energizing you. I really don't know which way to switch the dose (up or down), as either could help or make the situation worse (in terms of depession and libido. Whatever you and your doctor decide, give it a couple of weeks before you expect to see an effect (unless your depression increases - then call him/her ASAP). I think you are having what is known as an iatrogenic reaction to the medication (ie opposite reaction than what is expected). I'm sure that many ladies would like to trade places with you (at least for a weekend).
>
> Oh, by the way, thanks for the visual [sarcasm]. My wife is working this weekend and you're not helping. [lol].
>
> Sincerely - Cam W.
Posted by jacquie on April 12, 2000, at 19:04:40
In reply to Re: celexa sleep problems, posted by Liz on April 9, 2000, at 8:45:21
> DEAR LIZ, SORRY IT TOOK ME SO LONG TO REPLY. THE SLEEP ISSUE IS REALLY BECOMING A MAJOR PROBLEM FOR ME AND I AM DISTURBED THAT IT MIGHT NOT SUBSIDE. THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR EXPERIENCES AND CONCERNS. I AM IN THERAPY WEEKLY AND HAVE BEEN FOR YEARS. HAVE NEVER TAKEN MEDICATION EXCEPT FOR YEARS AGO WHEN DOC THOUGHT I WAS A MANIC DEPRESSIVE AND TOSSED ME ON LITHIUM, WHICH WAS THE MOST HIDEOUS EXPERIENCE I HAVE EVER HAD WITH MEDICATION. IT IS NOT FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT MANIC DEPRESSIVE. ANYWAY, I REALLY LIKE CELEXA AND FEEL FOR SURE IT HAS HELPED, BUT AWAKE MOST OF THE NIGHT AGAIN LASTNIGHT. THERAPIST THINKS I SHOULD GET OFF IT BECAUSE NO ONE SHOU;LD HAVE THIS MUCH OF AN INSOMNIA PROBLEM. ...EXCEPT ME OF COURSE! hOW ARE YOU DOING???
*********************************************
Jackie, nice to hear from you! I have always taken Celexa first thing in the morning, on the advice of my doctor. It was prescribed for me for OCD w/ underlying depression. I had just been in a rut, unmotivated, obsessive about some things and totally disinterested in other things, things I used to enjoy. I felt like I was just going through the motions of living - it was like watching someone else in a really boring movie. I felt detached from everything around me. Celexa alone may have taken the edge off things... I don't know. It sure made me tired during the day; I felt at times like I could fall asleep standing up. Of course it didn't help that I wasn't sleeping great at night. On my next visit to the doctor, he prescribed adderall, a stimulant. Now this combination has really helped me - my particular needs - I think. This is also about the time I found babbleland. Prior to this I think I believed that medicine alone was going to work some magic without any involvement from me, but after reading all the recent posts here, it began to occur to me that to feel better, I was going to have to do more on my own behalf than swallow a couple of pills. Perhaps the two drugs, or even the Celexa alone, got me to the point where I could think - take some sort of purposeful action - that would help propel me to where I wanted to be. Does that make sense? After reading some of the stories on this board, it occured to me that those who seem to have coped best with their disabilities were those who got pretty aggressive about their recovery. So I see the meds as a catalyst for that battle, not a cure. As to side effects from Celexa, I really hate the dry mouth thing and I also have had a feeling of stuffiness in my ears, but that is not constant. Night sweats? I had those before...I thought it was possibly hormonal. I just throw the covers off for awhile, then pull them back, then throw them off again - I get some exercise even while I'm in bed! I did not have any mania on Celexa alone, but shortly after I started adderall, I had two days of hypomania that my doctor said could have been triggered by the combination of the 2 drugs; they have been known to throw people into a bipolar episode. However, on those days I also had the first two days of my period and am convinced that had something to do with it. I had been taking 10 mgs. of Adderall twice a day with little or no noticable effect (much better concentration is about it) and then had several days on 15mgs, again the effect was not dramatic, then I had this hypomanic phase lasting about 2 days, then CRASH! Now I'm back to "normal" So even though my doctor asked me to stop the Adderall, I started taking it again after a few days. I know, I'm bad....but I like the two together. I think I was too mellow on Celexa alone. The only other problem was the delay of orgasm (or no orgasm) and that was a real bummer. I was in denial about that 'cause I didn't want to believe it was going to happen to me. Anyway, I think my husband and I have resolved that problem!;-) Take care, Liz (and let me know how things are going)
>
> *************************************************
> I have been taking celexa for three weeks now and wonder if
> > > > anyone else might be having problems with sleep. I fall
> > > > asleep at 9pm and wake up again at midinight, somethimes 3am
> > > > or 4am and then just get up at this point. Is it the Celexa
> > > > or is it me? If someone has some advice I would be most grateful
> > > **************************************************
> > > Jacquie, hi. I too have been taking Celexa just a short while, maybe two months now. I was having sleep difficulties just as you describe even before the medicine. However, part of my problem was that I was "self-medicating" with several glasses of wine virtually every night, so I would have no trouble falling asleep, but would always wake up and be wide awake at some point in the night. If it was before 2 AM, I would take some Exedrin PM to get back to sleep, otherwise, if it was later than 2, I would usually just toss and turn or have very shallow sleep the rest of the night. Since starting Celexa, I've been trying to determine if the sleep problem is even worse than before but of course, with the wine, it was just too hard to tell. My doc suggested (!) I reserve the wine for weekends or give it up entirely, which I have done now, for the most part for about 2 weeks. In an effort to help myself improve and feel better, I also started taking long power walks in the early evening, the time I used to spend relaxing with a glass of wine or two. That really helped me get over that hump! Then I found that I was not so sleepy early (duh!) and my late evenings were more fun and productive, which gave me a nice boost. I was also staying up later, so when I went to bed, I was really tired. To make a long story even longer, I still wake up at night, with or without wine, but I think the quality of my sleep is better. I do take Exedrin PM almost every night anyway, as insurance. You might want to try pushing your bed time 'til later and popping a couple of PMs at that time. The upshoot is that I can't really tell you unequivicably that Celexa interferes with sleep, but my suspicion is that it does. Hope this helps; maybe others out there have a less muddled answer. Good luck! Liz
> > Liz, thanks for your advice. I went to the website mentalhealth.com (it's a good site) and sure enough there have been many complaints about Celexa and sleep problems so they suggest you take it during the day before noon. I started doing that yesterday and hope it helps. Maybe you could try the same? Do you like the Celexa? Have you found it has altered your view on the world or of the world?? I think it has in me. I am not so upset about trivial matters and seem to handle things with more calm and sensibility. I am curious what you think as you have been taking it only one month more than I. Have you had any other side effects and have they subsided?? I have night sweats sometimes and increased excitability...aka mania I suppose. Let me know! Thanks, Liz.
Posted by JACQUIE on April 12, 2000, at 19:08:03
In reply to Re: celexa sleep problems, posted by Cam W. on April 9, 2000, at 9:58:57
Dear Cam, thanks for your advice and I amsorry for not responding sooner. i am still having problems with celexa and sleep. problem is that i like the celexa, but the sleep problem is really bad. i take it before noon now and it still hasn't helped. therapist thinks i should stop takingit becasue of the sleep prob. I have only been on it for 1 month and wonder if this will subside as a side effect or does it have permanence. what is your experience?? thanks,jacquie
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
> Jacquie and Liz - Just a thought. It may not pan out, but may be worth a try. Perhaps you are metabolizing the Celexa a little faster than the rest of us (about 5% of those of European descent may) and the drug is wearing off by 2 a.m. You could try taking you dose at noon, to see if this helps. I have heard of Celexa sleep problems and have normally equated them to be similar to those of Paxil and Luvox. Like I said, this is a shot in the dark, but us an easy experiment. Try it for a couple of days and see if there are any changes in sleep patterns. Let me know the results. Good luck - Cam W.
Posted by Cam W. on April 12, 2000, at 21:07:34
In reply to Re: celexa sleep problems, posted by JACQUIE on April 12, 2000, at 19:08:03
Jacquie - If the sleep probelms are that bad it might not be worth trying it another week or two; *unless* the Celexa has been working for the depressive symptoms. If it has resolved the symptoms of depression (except for sleep disturbance), maybe ask your doc to try lowering the dose to 1/2 of a tablet. This may resolve the sleep problems and still control the depression. It should really not be giving you this much trouble with sleep after a month, but I always like to give an antidepressant 6 to 8 weeks (but this is usually only to see an antidepressant effect). Sleep is also important in your recovery. You have to weigh all the factors with your doctor and therapist and come to a conclusion you feel comfortable with. Good luck with whatever you decide and keep us posted - Cam W.
Posted by jacquie on April 13, 2000, at 5:43:37
In reply to Re: celexa sleep problems, posted by Cam W. on April 12, 2000, at 21:07:34
> Hi Cam, thanks for getting back so quickly. You have a lot ofknowledge. What is your background? I really appreciate all your advice. The Celexa has helped very much with attitude, depression and thus my being torn as whether or not to stop taking it. Therapist thinks I will be stable without it. Prolem is, he (he is a new therapist) hasn't seen me off of it yet. This may change is opinion... I am going to give it another week and see. I was hoping this was one of those side affects that subsided. Thing is when I get up in the morning, I feel like I have slept and I know I haven't. Sounds weird I know, but Celexa must be activating something else like norep. and hampering dopamine? Is that possible? mucho thanks, Cam. -jacquie
> Jacquie - If the sleep probelms are that bad it might not be worth trying it another week or two; *unless* the Celexa has been working for the depressive symptoms. If it has resolved the symptoms of depression (except for sleep disturbance), maybe ask your doc to try lowering the dose to 1/2 of a tablet. This may resolve the sleep problems and still control the depression. It should really not be giving you this much trouble with sleep after a month, but I always like to give an antidepressant 6 to 8 weeks (but this is usually only to see an antidepressant effect). Sleep is also important in your recovery. You have to weigh all the factors with your doctor and therapist and come to a conclusion you feel comfortable with. Good luck with whatever you decide and keep us posted - Cam W.
Posted by Cam W. on April 13, 2000, at 7:14:55
In reply to Cam, posted by jacquie on April 13, 2000, at 5:43:37
Jacquie - I'm just a community pharmacist who works with a local mental health clinic and reads a lot. We really don't know all the things that antidepressants do in the body. We just call them SSRIs or SNRIs because we are human and like things to fit together in neat classifications (not unlike stereotypes). I believe serotonin reuptake blockade to be one effect (eg side effect or artifact) of SSRI activity. All antidepressants seem to readjust (reset?; resensitize?) our body's stress defence mechanisms (HPA axis). They do many other things as well (side effects). Side effects are just effects of the drug that we don't want to happen at that particular time. For example, Nytol is a sedating antihistamine used as a sleep aid, but it could also stop an allergic reaction. It is just that a 'side effect' of this antihistamine is sedation.The 'feeling like you've slept' may catch up with you eventually. Your body needs sleep to heal and function properly. Give it another week and tell us how it goes. - Cam W.
Posted by jacquie on April 13, 2000, at 7:57:14
In reply to Re: celexa sleep problems, posted by jacquie on April 12, 2000, at 19:04:40
> > DEAR LIZ, SORRY IT TOOK ME SO LONG TO REPLY. THE SLEEP ISSUE IS REALLY BECOMING A MAJOR PROBLEM FOR ME AND I AM DISTURBED THAT IT MIGHT NOT SUBSIDE. THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR EXPERIENCES AND CONCERNS. I AM IN THERAPY WEEKLY AND HAVE BEEN FOR YEARS. HAVE NEVER TAKEN MEDICATION EXCEPT FOR YEARS AGO WHEN DOC THOUGHT I WAS A MANIC DEPRESSIVE AND TOSSED ME ON LITHIUM, WHICH WAS THE MOST HIDEOUS EXPERIENCE I HAVE EVER HAD WITH MEDICATION. IT IS NOT FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT MANIC DEPRESSIVE. ANYWAY, I REALLY LIKE CELEXA AND FEEL FOR SURE IT HAS HELPED, BUT AWAKE MOST OF THE NIGHT AGAIN LASTNIGHT. THERAPIST THINKS I SHOULD GET OFF IT BECAUSE NO ONE SHOU;LD HAVE THIS MUCH OF AN INSOMNIA PROBLEM. ...EXCEPT ME OF COURSE! hOW ARE YOU DOING???
> Liz-the above message is for you! Sorry I did not identify it earlier!!!...jacquie
>
> *********************************************
> Jackie, nice to hear from you! I have always taken Celexa first thing in the morning, on the advice of my doctor. It was prescribed for me for OCD w/ underlying depression. I had just been in a rut, unmotivated, obsessive about some things and totally disinterested in other things, things I used to enjoy. I felt like I was just going through the motions of living - it was like watching someone else in a really boring movie. I felt detached from everything around me. Celexa alone may have taken the edge off things... I don't know. It sure made me tired during the day; I felt at times like I could fall asleep standing up. Of course it didn't help that I wasn't sleeping great at night. On my next visit to the doctor, he prescribed adderall, a stimulant. Now this combination has really helped me - my particular needs - I think. This is also about the time I found babbleland. Prior to this I think I believed that medicine alone was going to work some magic without any involvement from me, but after reading all the recent posts here, it began to occur to me that to feel better, I was going to have to do more on my own behalf than swallow a couple of pills. Perhaps the two drugs, or even the Celexa alone, got me to the point where I could think - take some sort of purposeful action - that would help propel me to where I wanted to be. Does that make sense? After reading some of the stories on this board, it occured to me that those who seem to have coped best with their disabilities were those who got pretty aggressive about their recovery. So I see the meds as a catalyst for that battle, not a cure. As to side effects from Celexa, I really hate the dry mouth thing and I also have had a feeling of stuffiness in my ears, but that is not constant. Night sweats? I had those before...I thought it was possibly hormonal. I just throw the covers off for awhile, then pull them back, then throw them off again - I get some exercise even while I'm in bed! I did not have any mania on Celexa alone, but shortly after I started adderall, I had two days of hypomania that my doctor said could have been triggered by the combination of the 2 drugs; they have been known to throw people into a bipolar episode. However, on those days I also had the first two days of my period and am convinced that had something to do with it. I had been taking 10 mgs. of Adderall twice a day with little or no noticable effect (much better concentration is about it) and then had several days on 15mgs, again the effect was not dramatic, then I had this hypomanic phase lasting about 2 days, then CRASH! Now I'm back to "normal" So even though my doctor asked me to stop the Adderall, I started taking it again after a few days. I know, I'm bad....but I like the two together. I think I was too mellow on Celexa alone. The only other problem was the delay of orgasm (or no orgasm) and that was a real bummer. I was in denial about that 'cause I didn't want to believe it was going to happen to me. Anyway, I think my husband and I have resolved that problem!;-) Take care, Liz (and let me know how things are going)
> >
> > *************************************************
> > I have been taking celexa for three weeks now and wonder if
> > > > > anyone else might be having problems with sleep. I fall
> > > > > asleep at 9pm and wake up again at midinight, somethimes 3am
> > > > > or 4am and then just get up at this point. Is it the Celexa
> > > > > or is it me? If someone has some advice I would be most grateful
> > > > **************************************************
> > > > Jacquie, hi. I too have been taking Celexa just a short while, maybe two months now. I was having sleep difficulties just as you describe even before the medicine. However, part of my problem was that I was "self-medicating" with several glasses of wine virtually every night, so I would have no trouble falling asleep, but would always wake up and be wide awake at some point in the night. If it was before 2 AM, I would take some Exedrin PM to get back to sleep, otherwise, if it was later than 2, I would usually just toss and turn or have very shallow sleep the rest of the night. Since starting Celexa, I've been trying to determine if the sleep problem is even worse than before but of course, with the wine, it was just too hard to tell. My doc suggested (!) I reserve the wine for weekends or give it up entirely, which I have done now, for the most part for about 2 weeks. In an effort to help myself improve and feel better, I also started taking long power walks in the early evening, the time I used to spend relaxing with a glass of wine or two. That really helped me get over that hump! Then I found that I was not so sleepy early (duh!) and my late evenings were more fun and productive, which gave me a nice boost. I was also staying up later, so when I went to bed, I was really tired. To make a long story even longer, I still wake up at night, with or without wine, but I think the quality of my sleep is better. I do take Exedrin PM almost every night anyway, as insurance. You might want to try pushing your bed time 'til later and popping a couple of PMs at that time. The upshoot is that I can't really tell you unequivicably that Celexa interferes with sleep, but my suspicion is that it does. Hope this helps; maybe others out there have a less muddled answer. Good luck! Liz
> > > Liz, thanks for your advice. I went to the website mentalhealth.com (it's a good site) and sure enough there have been many complaints about Celexa and sleep problems so they suggest you take it during the day before noon. I started doing that yesterday and hope it helps. Maybe you could try the same? Do you like the Celexa? Have you found it has altered your view on the world or of the world?? I think it has in me. I am not so upset about trivial matters and seem to handle things with more calm and sensibility. I am curious what you think as you have been taking it only one month more than I. Have you had any other side effects and have they subsided?? I have night sweats sometimes and increased excitability...aka mania I suppose. Let me know! Thanks, Liz.
Posted by liz on April 13, 2000, at 10:13:28
In reply to Re: celexa sleep problems, posted by jacquie on April 12, 2000, at 19:04:40
Hi Jacquie!
I wrote what I thought was a nice note to you last night, but it must be circulating in cyberspace 'cause its not here! Anyway, I have been thinking about you so I'm glad you came back here for a visit. The gist of my note was about the same as Cam's, although he says it much better than I did. ;-) I have, just this week, started sleeping better and I can't explain why but maybe it will hold some promise for you. I still wake up sometimes, briefly, but seem to be able to fall back to sleep pretty readily. Before when I'd wake up I would be wide awake, then I'd lie there and fret and worry and obsess about stuff, then, perhaps like you, I would only have, at best, very shallow sleep the rest of the night. Now I do seem to be having more restful sleep most of the time. I guess I'd echo Cam about Celexa: if it otherwise seems to be helping, I'd stick with it a while but perhaps try a sleep aid. My sleep aid is 2 glasses of Chardonnay and 2 Excedrin PMs! (More wine than that provided almost instant sleep, then waking at @2am - and not feeling too great!) I tried laying of the wine completely for about a week, but that didn't seem to improve sleep, so I just decided to moderate a little. As I mentioned before, my poor sleep was one of the things that propelled me to get help, so here we probably differ. You asked, I think, if Celexa had altered my world view. Well, the verdict is not in yet. I have trouble remembering exactly how I felt before the medicine, even though I have faithfully kept a journal . Once I started medication, just this February, I started also to re-examine every little thing in light of "now I'm admitting to a problem" or "now I'm taking medicine" and it made me, I feel, overly conscious of everything I said, did or felt. It worried me some that I was way too self-absorbed, but then it occured to me that maybe that is part of the healing process. In otherwords, maybe the initial step to see a professional coupled with medicine has gotten me to a point where I can analyze things with a healthier point of view and take more positive steps. You mention anxiety as one of your concerns. I don't think that really describes me; in fact I think I could use a little anxiety to propel me to action! Wouldn't it be ideal if we could each have our own custom-made chemical cocktail? (This, BTW, is one of my avoidance techniques; rambling at length to avoid something I really need to be doing!) Yesterday I spent hours reading monographs on pharmacuetical
products - all the anti-depressants. (I wanted to be more like Cam, or at least understand better what he was talking about :>) What I think I gathered is that there are, for example, a bunch of SSRIs but the chemical properties vary from one to the next, so perhaps switching to another one might prove worthwhile. My sister, who is so much like me, started taking Paxil last fall. Prior to that, she was a complete slug. (The only reason I haven't been a complete slug is because, unlike her, I have 4 children, a husband, big house, 2 dogs and a cat that compel me to get moving once and awhile!) She has a good job and performed well at work but did little else. She was overweight and almost social phobic. Since she started Paxil she joined a gym, lost 40 pounds, cleaned up and decorated her house, lowered her dangerously high cholesterol and now joins her co-workers for social events. My mother, who is up there in years and is taking care of my nearly invalid father, also went on Paxil and has had a complete turnaround of mood and attitude. She had been weepy, depressed, worried and fretful as she advanced in years and is now calm, cheerful and coping beautifully with all the stress. Was that all from Paxil? I don't know, but if it was, I sure could use some of that!
I have only my third visit with my doctor at the end of this month. During the first 2 visits, I was ignorant and passive, like "whatever you say" because I didn't know anything! I certainly didn't suspect that I had OCD and ADD! Now, I feel a little better equipped to ask questions and explain how I've responded to the medicine and also to tell him what I think I need. My hope is that he, knowing these drugs better, will be able to fine-tune my treatment. But I also realize that the medicine is only part of the solution. My doctor has a technique of asking questions that allow one to come up with one's own solutions. It was almost comical on my last visit when the issue of my self-medicating came up. I said "are you asking me or are you telling me, 'cause its probably best if you just tell me flat out to quit drinking if thats where you're going with this." Ah, but he doesn't operate that way. It appears that he wants me to arrive at my own conclusions. Boy, am I goin' on here! Just bouncing this all of you, thinking while typing. I try to talk to my husband about this and he treats me like I'm completely wacky and as fragile as fine china! I keep telling him that I'm the same delightful person I was before, but now I have a label and I guess for him that changes things. Well, I suppose it changes things for me too, but I don't feel like I was terrific before and now I'm impaired - quite the opposite. For him, I was pretty great before and now I'm impaired. The stigma of mental illness raises its ugly head! Well, I've prolonged the inevitable long enough. Gotta get to work here. Sorry if my missive put you to sleep (oh, but that might help you!). Anyway, please keep in touch and let us know what you decide to do. Take care, Liz*************************************************
DEAR LIZ, SORRY IT TOOK ME SO LONG TO REPLY. THE SLEEP ISSUE IS REALLY BECOMING A MAJOR PROBLEM FOR ME AND I AM DISTURBED THAT IT MIGHT NOT SUBSIDE. THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR EXPERIENCES AND CONCERNS. I AM IN THERAPY WEEKLY AND HAVE BEEN FOR YEARS. HAVE NEVER TAKEN MEDICATION EXCEPT FOR YEARS AGO WHEN DOC THOUGHT I WAS A MANIC DEPRESSIVE AND TOSSED ME ON LITHIUM, WHICH WAS THE MOST HIDEOUS EXPERIENCE I HAVE EVER HAD WITH MEDICATION. IT IS NOT FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT MANIC DEPRESSIVE. ANYWAY, I REALLY LIKE CELEXA AND FEEL FOR SURE IT HAS HELPED, BUT AWAKE MOST OF THE NIGHT AGAIN LASTNIGHT. THERAPIST THINKS I SHOULD GET OFF IT BECAUSE NO ONE SHOU;LD HAVE THIS MUCH OF AN INSOMNIA PROBLEM. ...EXCEPT ME OF COURSE! hOW ARE YOU DOING???
>
>
> *********************************************
> Jackie, nice to hear from you! I have always taken Celexa first thing in the morning, on the advice of my doctor. It was prescribed for me for OCD w/ underlying depression. I had just been in a rut, unmotivated, obsessive about some things and totally disinterested in other things, things I used to enjoy. I felt like I was just going through the motions of living - it was like watching someone else in a really boring movie. I felt detached from everything around me. Celexa alone may have taken the edge off things... I don't know. It sure made me tired during the day; I felt at times like I could fall asleep standing up. Of course it didn't help that I wasn't sleeping great at night. On my next visit to the doctor, he prescribed adderall, a stimulant. Now this combination has really helped me - my particular needs - I think. This is also about the time I found babbleland. Prior to this I think I believed that medicine alone was going to work some magic without any involvement from me, but after reading all the recent posts here, it began to occur to me that to feel better, I was going to have to do more on my own behalf than swallow a couple of pills. Perhaps the two drugs, or even the Celexa alone, got me to the point where I could think - take some sort of purposeful action - that would help propel me to where I wanted to be. Does that make sense? After reading some of the stories on this board, it occured to me that those who seem to have coped best with their disabilities were those who got pretty aggressive about their recovery. So I see the meds as a catalyst for that battle, not a cure. As to side effects from Celexa, I really hate the dry mouth thing and I also have had a feeling of stuffiness in my ears, but that is not constant. Night sweats? I had those before...I thought it was possibly hormonal. I just throw the covers off for awhile, then pull them back, then throw them off again - I get some exercise even while I'm in bed! I did not have any mania on Celexa alone, but shortly after I started adderall, I had two days of hypomania that my doctor said could have been triggered by the combination of the 2 drugs; they have been known to throw people into a bipolar episode. However, on those days I also had the first two days of my period and am convinced that had something to do with it. I had been taking 10 mgs. of Adderall twice a day with little or no noticable effect (much better concentration is about it) and then had several days on 15mgs, again the effect was not dramatic, then I had this hypomanic phase lasting about 2 days, then CRASH! Now I'm back to "normal" So even though my doctor asked me to stop the Adderall, I started taking it again after a few days. I know, I'm bad....but I like the two together. I think I was too mellow on Celexa alone. The only other problem was the delay of orgasm (or no orgasm) and that was a real bummer. I was in denial about that 'cause I didn't want to believe it was going to happen to me. Anyway, I think my husband and I have resolved that problem!;-) Take care, Liz (and let me know how things are going)
> >
> > *************************************************
> > I have been taking celexa for three weeks now and wonder if
> > > > > anyone else might be having problems with sleep. I fall
> > > > > asleep at 9pm and wake up again at midinight, somethimes 3am
> > > > > or 4am and then just get up at this point. Is it the Celexa
> > > > > or is it me? If someone has some advice I would be most grateful
> > > > **************************************************
> > > > Jacquie, hi. I too have been taking Celexa just a short while, maybe two months now. I was having sleep difficulties just as you describe even before the medicine. However, part of my problem was that I was "self-medicating" with several glasses of wine virtually every night, so I would have no trouble falling asleep, but would always wake up and be wide awake at some point in the night. If it was before 2 AM, I would take some Exedrin PM to get back to sleep, otherwise, if it was later than 2, I would usually just toss and turn or have very shallow sleep the rest of the night. Since starting Celexa, I've been trying to determine if the sleep problem is even worse than before but of course, with the wine, it was just too hard to tell. My doc suggested (!) I reserve the wine for weekends or give it up entirely, which I have done now, for the most part for about 2 weeks. In an effort to help myself improve and feel better, I also started taking long power walks in the early evening, the time I used to spend relaxing with a glass of wine or two. That really helped me get over that hump! Then I found that I was not so sleepy early (duh!) and my late evenings were more fun and productive, which gave me a nice boost. I was also staying up later, so when I went to bed, I was really tired. To make a long story even longer, I still wake up at night, with or without wine, but I think the quality of my sleep is better. I do take Exedrin PM almost every night anyway, as insurance. You might want to try pushing your bed time 'til later and popping a couple of PMs at that time. The upshoot is that I can't really tell you unequivicably that Celexa interferes with sleep, but my suspicion is that it does. Hope this helps; maybe others out there have a less muddled answer. Good luck! Liz
> > > Liz, thanks for your advice. I went to the website mentalhealth.com (it's a good site) and sure enough there have been many complaints about Celexa and sleep problems so they suggest you take it during the day before noon. I started doing that yesterday and hope it helps. Maybe you could try the same? Do you like the Celexa? Have you found it has altered your view on the world or of the world?? I think it has in me. I am not so upset about trivial matters and seem to handle things with more calm and sensibility. I am curious what you think as you have been taking it only one month more than I. Have you had any other side effects and have they subsided?? I have night sweats sometimes and increased excitability...aka mania I suppose. Let me know! Thanks, Liz.
Posted by jacquie on April 13, 2000, at 17:48:07
In reply to Re: celexa sleep problems, posted by liz on April 13, 2000, at 10:13:28
>Thanks so much Liz. I like your letters! I so wish the sleep prob would disappear. One doctor wanted to switch me to Paxil, but I just started Celexa. I am wired during the day. I always knew I was depressed, it is just that I neglected to look at the length of time the more serious episodes would last. The last bout was pretty bad. Mine is one part genetics and 2/3 me and my inability to cope like a "normal" person would. I am just not the best at it, but I am learning. I do not have a good doctor who knows meds and this i need very soon. I have a gyn and a therapist...what a combo! Basically, I needed to get on medication quickly and the two chatted with eachother and then she prescribed the Celexa. Anything further I need to find a good dr. who knows meds. This is my next mission. You and Cam both have very good advice and I appreciate it and need it right now. Thank you. The wine is a great idea, but I don't drink on a regular basis. I will say though that last Sunday night I had several glasses of wine a melatonin and a kava, kava and a great dinner and a big roaring fire and I slept like a baby. It was wonderful, but i can't do that every night. I was in dreamland and felt wonderful. The benadry dries me out too much. The melatonin and kava kava aren't the best helpers...I believe it was the red wine and the fire. I felt great! As you can see I have fond memories of that restful night. As far as depression, I have alot of pain in my life, from long ago to the present and determining why it affects me so is the issue in therapy. With the celexa i don't over react so much and that is a wonderful thing for me. I don't focus so much on the negative so much and my sense of humor is backin full swing. These are the things that are important to me and they have been out of my life only to be replaced by tears, negativity and coupled with social fears. Thus my fear of getting off the celexa. It becomes a crutch then I suppose it has to go, but it has been awhile since I felt better or different than I have inthe past. Thank you , Liz. Please keep in touch with me if you want to. It helps to share these things I think. i will keep you posted.
Hi Jacquie!
> I wrote what I thought was a nice note to you last night, but it must be circulating in cyberspace 'cause its not here! Anyway, I have been thinking about you so I'm glad you came back here for a visit. The gist of my note was about the same as Cam's, although he says it much better than I did. ;-) I have, just this week, started sleeping better and I can't explain why but maybe it will hold some promise for you. I still wake up sometimes, briefly, but seem to be able to fall back to sleep pretty readily. Before when I'd wake up I would be wide awake, then I'd lie there and fret and worry and obsess about stuff, then, perhaps like you, I would only have, at best, very shallow sleep the rest of the night. Now I do seem to be having more restful sleep most of the time. I guess I'd echo Cam about Celexa: if it otherwise seems to be helping, I'd stick with it a while but perhaps try a sleep aid. My sleep aid is 2 glasses of Chardonnay and 2 Excedrin PMs! (More wine than that provided almost instant sleep, then waking at @2am - and not feeling too great!) I tried laying of the wine completely for about a week, but that didn't seem to improve sleep, so I just decided to moderate a little. As I mentioned before, my poor sleep was one of the things that propelled me to get help, so here we probably differ. You asked, I think, if Celexa had altered my world view. Well, the verdict is not in yet. I have trouble remembering exactly how I felt before the medicine, even though I have faithfully kept a journal . Once I started medication, just this February, I started also to re-examine every little thing in light of "now I'm admitting to a problem" or "now I'm taking medicine" and it made me, I feel, overly conscious of everything I said, did or felt. It worried me some that I was way too self-absorbed, but then it occured to me that maybe that is part of the healing process. In otherwords, maybe the initial step to see a professional coupled with medicine has gotten me to a point where I can analyze things with a healthier point of view and take more positive steps. You mention anxiety as one of your concerns. I don't think that really describes me; in fact I think I could use a little anxiety to propel me to action! Wouldn't it be ideal if we could each have our own custom-made chemical cocktail? (This, BTW, is one of my avoidance techniques; rambling at length to avoid something I really need to be doing!) Yesterday I spent hours reading monographs on pharmacuetical
> products - all the anti-depressants. (I wanted to be more like Cam, or at least understand better what he was talking about :>) What I think I gathered is that there are, for example, a bunch of SSRIs but the chemical properties vary from one to the next, so perhaps switching to another one might prove worthwhile. My sister, who is so much like me, started taking Paxil last fall. Prior to that, she was a complete slug. (The only reason I haven't been a complete slug is because, unlike her, I have 4 children, a husband, big house, 2 dogs and a cat that compel me to get moving once and awhile!) She has a good job and performed well at work but did little else. She was overweight and almost social phobic. Since she started Paxil she joined a gym, lost 40 pounds, cleaned up and decorated her house, lowered her dangerously high cholesterol and now joins her co-workers for social events. My mother, who is up there in years and is taking care of my nearly invalid father, also went on Paxil and has had a complete turnaround of mood and attitude. She had been weepy, depressed, worried and fretful as she advanced in years and is now calm, cheerful and coping beautifully with all the stress. Was that all from Paxil? I don't know, but if it was, I sure could use some of that!
> I have only my third visit with my doctor at the end of this month. During the first 2 visits, I was ignorant and passive, like "whatever you say" because I didn't know anything! I certainly didn't suspect that I had OCD and ADD! Now, I feel a little better equipped to ask questions and explain how I've responded to the medicine and also to tell him what I think I need. My hope is that he, knowing these drugs better, will be able to fine-tune my treatment. But I also realize that the medicine is only part of the solution. My doctor has a technique of asking questions that allow one to come up with one's own solutions. It was almost comical on my last visit when the issue of my self-medicating came up. I said "are you asking me or are you telling me, 'cause its probably best if you just tell me flat out to quit drinking if thats where you're going with this." Ah, but he doesn't operate that way. It appears that he wants me to arrive at my own conclusions. Boy, am I goin' on here! Just bouncing this all of you, thinking while typing. I try to talk to my husband about this and he treats me like I'm completely wacky and as fragile as fine china! I keep telling him that I'm the same delightful person I was before, but now I have a label and I guess for him that changes things. Well, I suppose it changes things for me too, but I don't feel like I was terrific before and now I'm impaired - quite the opposite. For him, I was pretty great before and now I'm impaired. The stigma of mental illness raises its ugly head! Well, I've prolonged the inevitable long enough. Gotta get to work here. Sorry if my missive put you to sleep (oh, but that might help you!). Anyway, please keep in touch and let us know what you decide to do. Take care, Liz
>
> *************************************************
>
> DEAR LIZ, SORRY IT TOOK ME SO LONG TO REPLY. THE SLEEP ISSUE IS REALLY BECOMING A MAJOR PROBLEM FOR ME AND I AM DISTURBED THAT IT MIGHT NOT SUBSIDE. THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR EXPERIENCES AND CONCERNS. I AM IN THERAPY WEEKLY AND HAVE BEEN FOR YEARS. HAVE NEVER TAKEN MEDICATION EXCEPT FOR YEARS AGO WHEN DOC THOUGHT I WAS A MANIC DEPRESSIVE AND TOSSED ME ON LITHIUM, WHICH WAS THE MOST HIDEOUS EXPERIENCE I HAVE EVER HAD WITH MEDICATION. IT IS NOT FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT MANIC DEPRESSIVE. ANYWAY, I REALLY LIKE CELEXA AND FEEL FOR SURE IT HAS HELPED, BUT AWAKE MOST OF THE NIGHT AGAIN LASTNIGHT. THERAPIST THINKS I SHOULD GET OFF IT BECAUSE NO ONE SHOU;LD HAVE THIS MUCH OF AN INSOMNIA PROBLEM. ...EXCEPT ME OF COURSE! hOW ARE YOU DOING???
> >
> >
> > *********************************************
> > Jackie, nice to hear from you! I have always taken Celexa first thing in the morning, on the advice of my doctor. It was prescribed for me for OCD w/ underlying depression. I had just been in a rut, unmotivated, obsessive about some things and totally disinterested in other things, things I used to enjoy. I felt like I was just going through the motions of living - it was like watching someone else in a really boring movie. I felt detached from everything around me. Celexa alone may have taken the edge off things... I don't know. It sure made me tired during the day; I felt at times like I could fall asleep standing up. Of course it didn't help that I wasn't sleeping great at night. On my next visit to the doctor, he prescribed adderall, a stimulant. Now this combination has really helped me - my particular needs - I think. This is also about the time I found babbleland. Prior to this I think I believed that medicine alone was going to work some magic without any involvement from me, but after reading all the recent posts here, it began to occur to me that to feel better, I was going to have to do more on my own behalf than swallow a couple of pills. Perhaps the two drugs, or even the Celexa alone, got me to the point where I could think - take some sort of purposeful action - that would help propel me to where I wanted to be. Does that make sense? After reading some of the stories on this board, it occured to me that those who seem to have coped best with their disabilities were those who got pretty aggressive about their recovery. So I see the meds as a catalyst for that battle, not a cure. As to side effects from Celexa, I really hate the dry mouth thing and I also have had a feeling of stuffiness in my ears, but that is not constant. Night sweats? I had those before...I thought it was possibly hormonal. I just throw the covers off for awhile, then pull them back, then throw them off again - I get some exercise even while I'm in bed! I did not have any mania on Celexa alone, but shortly after I started adderall, I had two days of hypomania that my doctor said could have been triggered by the combination of the 2 drugs; they have been known to throw people into a bipolar episode. However, on those days I also had the first two days of my period and am convinced that had something to do with it. I had been taking 10 mgs. of Adderall twice a day with little or no noticable effect (much better concentration is about it) and then had several days on 15mgs, again the effect was not dramatic, then I had this hypomanic phase lasting about 2 days, then CRASH! Now I'm back to "normal" So even though my doctor asked me to stop the Adderall, I started taking it again after a few days. I know, I'm bad....but I like the two together. I think I was too mellow on Celexa alone. The only other problem was the delay of orgasm (or no orgasm) and that was a real bummer. I was in denial about that 'cause I didn't want to believe it was going to happen to me. Anyway, I think my husband and I have resolved that problem!;-) Take care, Liz (and let me know how things are going)
> > >
> > > *************************************************
> > > I have been taking celexa for three weeks now and wonder if
> > > > > > anyone else might be having problems with sleep. I fall
> > > > > > asleep at 9pm and wake up again at midinight, somethimes 3am
> > > > > > or 4am and then just get up at this point. Is it the Celexa
> > > > > > or is it me? If someone has some advice I would be most grateful
> > > > > **************************************************
> > > > > Jacquie, hi. I too have been taking Celexa just a short while, maybe two months now. I was having sleep difficulties just as you describe even before the medicine. However, part of my problem was that I was "self-medicating" with several glasses of wine virtually every night, so I would have no trouble falling asleep, but would always wake up and be wide awake at some point in the night. If it was before 2 AM, I would take some Exedrin PM to get back to sleep, otherwise, if it was later than 2, I would usually just toss and turn or have very shallow sleep the rest of the night. Since starting Celexa, I've been trying to determine if the sleep problem is even worse than before but of course, with the wine, it was just too hard to tell. My doc suggested (!) I reserve the wine for weekends or give it up entirely, which I have done now, for the most part for about 2 weeks. In an effort to help myself improve and feel better, I also started taking long power walks in the early evening, the time I used to spend relaxing with a glass of wine or two. That really helped me get over that hump! Then I found that I was not so sleepy early (duh!) and my late evenings were more fun and productive, which gave me a nice boost. I was also staying up later, so when I went to bed, I was really tired. To make a long story even longer, I still wake up at night, with or without wine, but I think the quality of my sleep is better. I do take Exedrin PM almost every night anyway, as insurance. You might want to try pushing your bed time 'til later and popping a couple of PMs at that time. The upshoot is that I can't really tell you unequivicably that Celexa interferes with sleep, but my suspicion is that it does. Hope this helps; maybe others out there have a less muddled answer. Good luck! Liz
> > > > Liz, thanks for your advice. I went to the website mentalhealth.com (it's a good site) and sure enough there have been many complaints about Celexa and sleep problems so they suggest you take it during the day before noon. I started doing that yesterday and hope it helps. Maybe you could try the same? Do you like the Celexa? Have you found it has altered your view on the world or of the world?? I think it has in me. I am not so upset about trivial matters and seem to handle things with more calm and sensibility. I am curious what you think as you have been taking it only one month more than I. Have you had any other side effects and have they subsided?? I have night sweats sometimes and increased excitability...aka mania I suppose. Let me know! Thanks, Liz.
Posted by liz on April 13, 2000, at 19:40:42
In reply to Re: liz cam, posted by jacquie on April 13, 2000, at 17:48:07
Jacquie, I'm enjoying our correspondence too! Happy to hear you had at least one night of peaceful sleep! I know alcohol is not the answer for most of us and I certainly am not recommending it as a therapy; I'm sort of temporizing with it, I guess. I'm surprized to hear that you are wired during the day on Celexa, then sleepless at night. I was about to fall asleep standing up on Celexa by itself during the day! There's the irony...then I still couldn't sleep well at night. I'm anxious to discuss this more with you. I can't really say that I've been in pain throughout my adult life nor have I been in therapy. However, I think we have something in common or at least can support each other. I'll get back to the site tomorrow when I've got some time....later, Liz
Thanks so much Liz. I like your letters! I so wish the sleep prob would disappear. One doctor wanted to switch me to Paxil, but I just started Celexa. I am wired during the day. I always knew I was depressed, it is just that I neglected to look at the length of time the more serious episodes would last. The last bout was pretty bad. Mine is one part genetics and 2/3 me and my inability to cope like a "normal" person would. I am just not the best at it, but I am learning. I do not have a good doctor who knows meds and this i need very soon. I have a gyn and a therapist...what a combo! Basically, I needed to get on medication quickly and the two chatted with eachother and then she prescribed the Celexa. Anything further I need to find a good dr. who knows meds. This is my next mission. You and Cam both have very good advice and I appreciate it and need it right now. Thank you. The wine is a great idea, but I don't drink on a regular basis. I will say though that last Sunday night I had several glasses of wine a melatonin and a kava, kava and a great dinner and a big roaring fire and I slept like a baby. It was wonderful, but i can't do that every night. I was in dreamland and felt wonderful. The benadry dries me out too much. The melatonin and kava kava aren't the best helpers...I believe it was the red wine and the fire. I felt great! As you can see I have fond memories of that restful night. As far as depression, I have alot of pain in my life, from long ago to the present and determining why it affects me so is the issue in therapy. With the celexa i don't over react so much and that is a wonderful thing for me. I don't focus so much on the negative so much and my sense of humor is backin full swing. These are the things that are important to me and they have been out of my life only to be replaced by tears, negativity and coupled with social fears. Thus my fear of getting off the celexa. It becomes a crutch then I suppose it has to go, but it has been awhile since I felt better or different than I have inthe past. Thank you , Liz. Please keep in touch with me if you want to. It helps to share these things I think. i will keep you posted.
>
> Hi Jacquie!
> > I wrote what I thought was a nice note to you last night, but it must be circulating in cyberspace 'cause its not here! Anyway, I have been thinking about you so I'm glad you came back here for a visit. The gist of my note was about the same as Cam's, although he says it much better than I did. ;-) I have, just this week, started sleeping better and I can't explain why but maybe it will hold some promise for you. I still wake up sometimes, briefly, but seem to be able to fall back to sleep pretty readily. Before when I'd wake up I would be wide awake, then I'd lie there and fret and worry and obsess about stuff, then, perhaps like you, I would only have, at best, very shallow sleep the rest of the night. Now I do seem to be having more restful sleep most of the time. I guess I'd echo Cam about Celexa: if it otherwise seems to be helping, I'd stick with it a while but perhaps try a sleep aid. My sleep aid is 2 glasses of Chardonnay and 2 Excedrin PMs! (More wine than that provided almost instant sleep, then waking at @2am - and not feeling too great!) I tried laying of the wine completely for about a week, but that didn't seem to improve sleep, so I just decided to moderate a little. As I mentioned before, my poor sleep was one of the things that propelled me to get help, so here we probably differ. You asked, I think, if Celexa had altered my world view. Well, the verdict is not in yet. I have trouble remembering exactly how I felt before the medicine, even though I have faithfully kept a journal . Once I started medication, just this February, I started also to re-examine every little thing in light of "now I'm admitting to a problem" or "now I'm taking medicine" and it made me, I feel, overly conscious of everything I said, did or felt. It worried me some that I was way too self-absorbed, but then it occured to me that maybe that is part of the healing process. In otherwords, maybe the initial step to see a professional coupled with medicine has gotten me to a point where I can analyze things with a healthier point of view and take more positive steps. You mention anxiety as one of your concerns. I don't think that really describes me; in fact I think I could use a little anxiety to propel me to action! Wouldn't it be ideal if we could each have our own custom-made chemical cocktail? (This, BTW, is one of my avoidance techniques; rambling at length to avoid something I really need to be doing!) Yesterday I spent hours reading monographs on pharmacuetical
> > products - all the anti-depressants. (I wanted to be more like Cam, or at least understand better what he was talking about :>) What I think I gathered is that there are, for example, a bunch of SSRIs but the chemical properties vary from one to the next, so perhaps switching to another one might prove worthwhile. My sister, who is so much like me, started taking Paxil last fall. Prior to that, she was a complete slug. (The only reason I haven't been a complete slug is because, unlike her, I have 4 children, a husband, big house, 2 dogs and a cat that compel me to get moving once and awhile!) She has a good job and performed well at work but did little else. She was overweight and almost social phobic. Since she started Paxil she joined a gym, lost 40 pounds, cleaned up and decorated her house, lowered her dangerously high cholesterol and now joins her co-workers for social events. My mother, who is up there in years and is taking care of my nearly invalid father, also went on Paxil and has had a complete turnaround of mood and attitude. She had been weepy, depressed, worried and fretful as she advanced in years and is now calm, cheerful and coping beautifully with all the stress. Was that all from Paxil? I don't know, but if it was, I sure could use some of that!
> > I have only my third visit with my doctor at the end of this month. During the first 2 visits, I was ignorant and passive, like "whatever you say" because I didn't know anything! I certainly didn't suspect that I had OCD and ADD! Now, I feel a little better equipped to ask questions and explain how I've responded to the medicine and also to tell him what I think I need. My hope is that he, knowing these drugs better, will be able to fine-tune my treatment. But I also realize that the medicine is only part of the solution. My doctor has a technique of asking questions that allow one to come up with one's own solutions. It was almost comical on my last visit when the issue of my self-medicating came up. I said "are you asking me or are you telling me, 'cause its probably best if you just tell me flat out to quit drinking if thats where you're going with this." Ah, but he doesn't operate that way. It appears that he wants me to arrive at my own conclusions. Boy, am I goin' on here! Just bouncing this all of you, thinking while typing. I try to talk to my husband about this and he treats me like I'm completely wacky and as fragile as fine china! I keep telling him that I'm the same delightful person I was before, but now I have a label and I guess for him that changes things. Well, I suppose it changes things for me too, but I don't feel like I was terrific before and now I'm impaired - quite the opposite. For him, I was pretty great before and now I'm impaired. The stigma of mental illness raises its ugly head! Well, I've prolonged the inevitable long enough. Gotta get to work here. Sorry if my missive put you to sleep (oh, but that might help you!). Anyway, please keep in touch and let us know what you decide to do. Take care, Liz
> >
> > *************************************************
> >
> > DEAR LIZ, SORRY IT TOOK ME SO LONG TO REPLY. THE SLEEP ISSUE IS REALLY BECOMING A MAJOR PROBLEM FOR ME AND I AM DISTURBED THAT IT MIGHT NOT SUBSIDE. THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR EXPERIENCES AND CONCERNS. I AM IN THERAPY WEEKLY AND HAVE BEEN FOR YEARS. HAVE NEVER TAKEN MEDICATION EXCEPT FOR YEARS AGO WHEN DOC THOUGHT I WAS A MANIC DEPRESSIVE AND TOSSED ME ON LITHIUM, WHICH WAS THE MOST HIDEOUS EXPERIENCE I HAVE EVER HAD WITH MEDICATION. IT IS NOT FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT MANIC DEPRESSIVE. ANYWAY, I REALLY LIKE CELEXA AND FEEL FOR SURE IT HAS HELPED, BUT AWAKE MOST OF THE NIGHT AGAIN LASTNIGHT. THERAPIST THINKS I SHOULD GET OFF IT BECAUSE NO ONE SHOU;LD HAVE THIS MUCH OF AN INSOMNIA PROBLEM. ...EXCEPT ME OF COURSE! hOW ARE YOU DOING???
> > >
> > >
> > > *********************************************
> > > Jackie, nice to hear from you! I have always taken Celexa first thing in the morning, on the advice of my doctor. It was prescribed for me for OCD w/ underlying depression. I had just been in a rut, unmotivated, obsessive about some things and totally disinterested in other things, things I used to enjoy. I felt like I was just going through the motions of living - it was like watching someone else in a really boring movie. I felt detached from everything around me. Celexa alone may have taken the edge off things... I don't know. It sure made me tired during the day; I felt at times like I could fall asleep standing up. Of course it didn't help that I wasn't sleeping great at night. On my next visit to the doctor, he prescribed adderall, a stimulant. Now this combination has really helped me - my particular needs - I think. This is also about the time I found babbleland. Prior to this I think I believed that medicine alone was going to work some magic without any involvement from me, but after reading all the recent posts here, it began to occur to me that to feel better, I was going to have to do more on my own behalf than swallow a couple of pills. Perhaps the two drugs, or even the Celexa alone, got me to the point where I could think - take some sort of purposeful action - that would help propel me to where I wanted to be. Does that make sense? After reading some of the stories on this board, it occured to me that those who seem to have coped best with their disabilities were those who got pretty aggressive about their recovery. So I see the meds as a catalyst for that battle, not a cure. As to side effects from Celexa, I really hate the dry mouth thing and I also have had a feeling of stuffiness in my ears, but that is not constant. Night sweats? I had those before...I thought it was possibly hormonal. I just throw the covers off for awhile, then pull them back, then throw them off again - I get some exercise even while I'm in bed! I did not have any mania on Celexa alone, but shortly after I started adderall, I had two days of hypomania that my doctor said could have been triggered by the combination of the 2 drugs; they have been known to throw people into a bipolar episode. However, on those days I also had the first two days of my period and am convinced that had something to do with it. I had been taking 10 mgs. of Adderall twice a day with little or no noticable effect (much better concentration is about it) and then had several days on 15mgs, again the effect was not dramatic, then I had this hypomanic phase lasting about 2 days, then CRASH! Now I'm back to "normal" So even though my doctor asked me to stop the Adderall, I started taking it again after a few days. I know, I'm bad....but I like the two together. I think I was too mellow on Celexa alone. The only other problem was the delay of orgasm (or no orgasm) and that was a real bummer. I was in denial about that 'cause I didn't want to believe it was going to happen to me. Anyway, I think my husband and I have resolved that problem!;-) Take care, Liz (and let me know how things are going)
> > > >
> > > > *************************************************
> > > > I have been taking celexa for three weeks now and wonder if
> > > > > > > anyone else might be having problems with sleep. I fall
> > > > > > > asleep at 9pm and wake up again at midinight, somethimes 3am
> > > > > > > or 4am and then just get up at this point. Is it the Celexa
> > > > > > > or is it me? If someone has some advice I would be most grateful
> > > > > > **************************************************
> > > > > > Jacquie, hi. I too have been taking Celexa just a short while, maybe two months now. I was having sleep difficulties just as you describe even before the medicine. However, part of my problem was that I was "self-medicating" with several glasses of wine virtually every night, so I would have no trouble falling asleep, but would always wake up and be wide awake at some point in the night. If it was before 2 AM, I would take some Exedrin PM to get back to sleep, otherwise, if it was later than 2, I would usually just toss and turn or have very shallow sleep the rest of the night. Since starting Celexa, I've been trying to determine if the sleep problem is even worse than before but of course, with the wine, it was just too hard to tell. My doc suggested (!) I reserve the wine for weekends or give it up entirely, which I have done now, for the most part for about 2 weeks. In an effort to help myself improve and feel better, I also started taking long power walks in the early evening, the time I used to spend relaxing with a glass of wine or two. That really helped me get over that hump! Then I found that I was not so sleepy early (duh!) and my late evenings were more fun and productive, which gave me a nice boost. I was also staying up later, so when I went to bed, I was really tired. To make a long story even longer, I still wake up at night, with or without wine, but I think the quality of my sleep is better. I do take Exedrin PM almost every night anyway, as insurance. You might want to try pushing your bed time 'til later and popping a couple of PMs at that time. The upshoot is that I can't really tell you unequivicably that Celexa interferes with sleep, but my suspicion is that it does. Hope this helps; maybe others out there have a less muddled answer. Good luck! Liz
> > > > > Liz, thanks for your advice. I went to the website mentalhealth.com (it's a good site) and sure enough there have been many complaints about Celexa and sleep problems so they suggest you take it during the day before noon. I started doing that yesterday and hope it helps. Maybe you could try the same? Do you like the Celexa? Have you found it has altered your view on the world or of the world?? I think it has in me. I am not so upset about trivial matters and seem to handle things with more calm and sensibility. I am curious what you think as you have been taking it only one month more than I. Have you had any other side effects and have they subsided?? I have night sweats sometimes and increased excitability...aka mania I suppose. Let me know! Thanks, Liz.
Posted by jacquie on April 13, 2000, at 20:07:27
In reply to Re: Cam, posted by Cam W. on April 13, 2000, at 7:14:55
>cAM-THANK YOU FOR THE SOUND ADVICE. THE EMAIL ABOVE IS TO YOU AND LIZ, BUT IT DELETED YOUR NAME SOMEHOW. BOTH OF YOU ARE VERY HELPFUL TO ME AND I TRULY APPRECIATE IT.
BEST, JACQUIE
> Jacquie - I'm just a community pharmacist who works with a local mental health clinic and reads a lot. We really don't know all the things that antidepressants do in the body. We just call them SSRIs or SNRIs because we are human and like things to fit together in neat classifications (not unlike stereotypes). I believe serotonin reuptake blockade to be one effect (eg side effect or artifact) of SSRI activity. All antidepressants seem to readjust (reset?; resensitize?) our body's stress defence mechanisms (HPA axis). They do many other things as well (side effects). Side effects are just effects of the drug that we don't want to happen at that particular time. For example, Nytol is a sedating antihistamine used as a sleep aid, but it could also stop an allergic reaction. It is just that a 'side effect' of this antihistamine is sedation.
>
> The 'feeling like you've slept' may catch up with you eventually. Your body needs sleep to heal and function properly. Give it another week and tell us how it goes. - Cam W.
Posted by liz on April 14, 2000, at 15:27:29
In reply to Re: liz cam, posted by liz on April 13, 2000, at 19:40:42
Jackie, I got to thinking about one of the things you touched on in your notes: the years of therapy you've had and only a brief time with any medication. In my former life, before kids, I was a social worker in a hospital. I didn't have any long term relationships with patients, of course. Had I been employed in a different setting, where I might have had ongoing counseling with a client and had I found that we were essentially at square one after all that time, I would have fired myself!! Cutting to the chase here, I'm am so glad you are going to seek some other help, a different doctor, whatever. It seems almost like criminal neglect for you to have sought help, gone through all this counseling, and still be suffering from the same pain and to the same degree that brought you in for help so long ago. Please don't feel guilty about trying some medication and don't think of it as a crutch! My doctor repeatedly told me that it wasn't some personality deficiency on my part, but my brain chemistry, and I remind myself of that almost daily. Obviously, some of have had a tough go, have had a lot of pain and disappointment, so we need to remind ourselves that the medicine is but a tool in our recovery. Its quite possible that you will be in a position after getting some help from medication to deal more effectively with all your demons from the past and you will be able to do it better and faster than with counseling alone. So please, make that a top priority! I think its imperative that we are with doctors in whom we have faith and trust. In fact, its the primary thing in a recovery, IMHO. I also wanted you to know that I will be away from my computer (boohoo!) for over a week due to some R&R in Florida with the family; its our spring break this coming week. I'll be thinking about you and all the nice people on this board; I hope when I come back I hear that you have found a psch. doc with whom you can continue to get better! Take care, Liz (p.s. I think there is a link from this site to a list of doctors who specialize in mood disorders; maybe there will be one there who is near you.)
Posted by jacquie on April 16, 2000, at 7:24:09
In reply to Re: Cam, posted by Cam W. on April 13, 2000, at 7:14:55
> Cam- thank you very much for your advice. I am still the intermittant sleepless wonder. Bleary-eyed on occasion. Going to chat with a physicians assistant on Tuesday who appears to know quite a bit about Celexa. after that I will make the call to the psychiatrist. I feel like such a moron for not knowingmore about these medications.The therapist Iam seeing said I am taking below the noraml dose of Celexa daily....I take 20mg per day and wondered if I should take 40mg and waht difference would it make ultimately? Is there something one can take to give uniterrupted sleep, but not be a sleeping pill so to speak?? He suggested desryl....i despise that stuff, so i nixed that idea. What about ativan? I had that a while ago when I had surgery and it worked. Thus far I like Celexa, except for the sleep thing. I am still waking alot, but seem to be getting some sleep in there. Maybe it will slowly subside...but the nurse said most of her patients complain about this side effect. Any advice, Cam??? Hope you are well. Liz is on vacation so we won't be hearing from her. I hope you know that your correspondence means a great deal to me. You and Liz. I am very unfamiliar with meds, but all too familiar with depression. Thanks, Cam.
> Jacquie - I'm just a community pharmacist who works with a local mental health clinic and reads a lot. We really don't know all the things that antidepressants do in the body. We just call them SSRIs or SNRIs because we are human and like things to fit together in neat classifications (not unlike stereotypes). I believe serotonin reuptake blockade to be one effect (eg side effect or artifact) of SSRI activity. All antidepressants seem to readjust (reset?; resensitize?) our body's stress defence mechanisms (HPA axis). They do many other things as well (side effects). Side effects are just effects of the drug that we don't want to happen at that particular time. For example, Nytol is a sedating antihistamine used as a sleep aid, but it could also stop an allergic reaction. It is just that a 'side effect' of this antihistamine is sedation.
>
> The 'feeling like you've slept' may catch up with you eventually. Your body needs sleep to heal and function properly. Give it another week and tell us how it goes. - Cam W.
Posted by Cam W. on April 16, 2000, at 10:08:47
In reply to Re: Hi Cam, posted by jacquie on April 16, 2000, at 7:24:09
Jacquie - If the Celexa is working at 20mg, I would not want to raise it unless the doc wants to give it a try. The 20mg daily is a average dose. Many people need more, but some people need less. When you see your doc on Tuesday, ask him/her about this. Since the depressive symptoms are being controlled, there is probably no need to raise the dose. Actually, your sleeplessness might be caused by too high a Celexa dose (for you). Ask your doc about this as well, although, since the Celexa is working he/she might not want to lower the dose.There are a number of tricks to combat insomnia without drugs. Exercising about 3 hours prior to bed, warm milk (no kidding, but yuck!), maybe a chamomile tea (not too much), trying to go to bed an hour earlier than normal and read, etc. There are others, but I cannot think of them now. Maybe asking this question on a new thread will give you many more answers.
As for the sleep inducing drugs. Low doses of Desyrel do work (eg 25mg in your case), but if that is out, Ativan does work. The problem with Ativan is that it can become habit forming. The same can be said for the other benzodiazepine hypnotics (nitrazepam, temazepam, triazolam, etc.). Zopiclone is another shot term alternative (Imovane in Canada). The hypnotics like Ambien, I do not know anything about, as we do not have them here in Canada.
Still, it is best to look for non-drug methods of falling asleep. The two I would lean towards would be dose reduction (ask doc first), warm milk, or going to bed earlier. None of these are foolproof, but they may help you.
Good luck again. - Cam W.
Posted by jacquie on April 18, 2000, at 15:49:47
In reply to Re: Hi Jacquie, posted by Cam W. on April 16, 2000, at 10:08:47
> Hi Cam- thanks for the sound advice. I wen to doctor today seemingly pretty sad the last few days and we agreed to up the celexa to 40mg and wait and see for next 2 weeks. they also prescribed ambien which is zolpidem. According to pharmacist it goes through the system faster and isn't too terribly addictive like benzodiaz. The sleep problem simply didn't correct itself and i couldn't go too much longer. I am a professional gardener and entering our busy season. I get atleast 6-8 very active days in exercise wise and this is what perplexed me as to why i wasn't sleeping evenbetter, plus i would walk 3 miles when i got home and do the usual floor exercises. guaranteed to awake at 11pm.1am and again at 3am. thoroughly nuts, and i had rem sleep. very vivid dreams, mostly about fears.... thoughts???. thanks, Cam.
> Jacquie - If the Celexa is working at 20mg, I would not want to raise it unless the doc wants to give it a try. The 20mg daily is a average dose. Many people need more, but some people need less. When you see your doc on Tuesday, ask him/her about this. Since the depressive symptoms are being controlled, there is probably no need to raise the dose. Actually, your sleeplessness might be caused by too high a Celexa dose (for you). Ask your doc about this as well, although, since the Celexa is working he/she might not want to lower the dose.
>
> There are a number of tricks to combat insomnia without drugs. Exercising about 3 hours prior to bed, warm milk (no kidding, but yuck!), maybe a chamomile tea (not too much), trying to go to bed an hour earlier than normal and read, etc. There are others, but I cannot think of them now. Maybe asking this question on a new thread will give you many more answers.
>
> As for the sleep inducing drugs. Low doses of Desyrel do work (eg 25mg in your case), but if that is out, Ativan does work. The problem with Ativan is that it can become habit forming. The same can be said for the other benzodiazepine hypnotics (nitrazepam, temazepam, triazolam, etc.). Zopiclone is another shot term alternative (Imovane in Canada). The hypnotics like Ambien, I do not know anything about, as we do not have them here in Canada.
>
> Still, it is best to look for non-drug methods of falling asleep. The two I would lean towards would be dose reduction (ask doc first), warm milk, or going to bed earlier. None of these are foolproof, but they may help you.
>
> Good luck again. - Cam W.
Posted by jacquie on April 18, 2000, at 19:44:41
In reply to Re: Jackie, posted by liz on April 14, 2000, at 15:27:29
Liz? are you back yet???? Boohoo....
> Jackie, I got to thinking about one of the things you touched on in your notes: the years of therapy you've had and only a brief time with any medication. In my former life, before kids, I was a social worker in a hospital. I didn't have any long term relationships with patients, of course. Had I been employed in a different setting, where I might have had ongoing counseling with a client and had I found that we were essentially at square one after all that time, I would have fired myself!! Cutting to the chase here, I'm am so glad you are going to seek some other help, a different doctor, whatever. It seems almost like criminal neglect for you to have sought help, gone through all this counseling, and still be suffering from the same pain and to the same degree that brought you in for help so long ago. Please don't feel guilty about trying some medication and don't think of it as a crutch! My doctor repeatedly told me that it wasn't some personality deficiency on my part, but my brain chemistry, and I remind myself of that almost daily. Obviously, some of have had a tough go, have had a lot of pain and disappointment, so we need to remind ourselves that the medicine is but a tool in our recovery. Its quite possible that you will be in a position after getting some help from medication to deal more effectively with all your demons from the past and you will be able to do it better and faster than with counseling alone. So please, make that a top priority! I think its imperative that we are with doctors in whom we have faith and trust. In fact, its the primary thing in a recovery, IMHO. I also wanted you to know that I will be away from my computer (boohoo!) for over a week due to some R&R in Florida with the family; its our spring break this coming week. I'll be thinking about you and all the nice people on this board; I hope when I come back I hear that you have found a psch. doc with whom you can continue to get better! Take care, Liz (p.s. I think there is a link from this site to a list of doctors who specialize in mood disorders; maybe there will be one there who is near you.)
Posted by Cam W. on April 18, 2000, at 23:26:16
In reply to Re: Hi Cam and thankyou, posted by jacquie on April 18, 2000, at 15:49:47
Jacquie - Vivid dreams do happen with SRI antidepressants, but they usually become less frequent with use. I have had some people have to stop Paxil because the dreams they were having were too vivid and frightening. Hopefully, they will begin to become more infrequent for you as time goes on. - Cam W.
Posted by T~ on September 1, 2000, at 12:35:57
In reply to Re: celexa sleep problems, posted by Liz on April 9, 2000, at 8:45:21
*************************************************
> I have been taking celexa for three weeks now and wonder if
> > > > anyone else might be having problems with sleep. I fall
> > > > asleep at 9pm and wake up again at midinight, somethimes 3am
> > > > or 4am and then just get up at this point. Is it the Celexa
> > > > or is it me? If someone has some advice I would be most grateful
> > > **************************************************
hi there, well not sure i have advice but i can totally relate to this post! i have been on celexa for 2 weeks now and recently the dose was upped from 20 mg to 30mg. i take my meds at night but have been waken anywhere from midnight to 3 am and find it hard to go back to sleep. doctor suggested (trial and error thing) to skip a day and start taking celexa in the am. SIGH*
I took have night sweats, NO libido, cotton mouth etc.
T~
This is the end of the thread.
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