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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Abby on April 7, 2000, at 21:09:08
Did anybody watch the first two episodes of this show. It's set at a forensic psychiatric hospital in New York.
NAMI has a full scale campaign against it on stigma grounds. They got ABC to add a public service message about how mental illness could be effectively treated and that their was hope. ABC also removed a graphic suicide attempt, which was probably a goo idea.
I don't know what I think about this show which I did watch, largely because of the curiosity factor. (ABC 10PM Thursdays) I'm not sure whether the show is good or bad. NAMI's approach seemed shrill somehow, but I'm not sure about that.
NAMI's argument seemed to be that, because the show includes psychotic people, it was increasing stigma by emphasizing extreme cases. It seemed to me to offer some kind of hope, because it was clear that the schizophrenic man responded to drugs. So, I don't know.
Abby
Posted by Cam W. on April 7, 2000, at 21:39:25
In reply to ABC's Wonderland, posted by Abby on April 7, 2000, at 21:09:08
Actually, NAMI's "in-your-face" approach may do more harm than good. Research has shown that protesting stigma actually increases stigma in the minds of the 'general public' when related to mental illness. It's sort of a rebound effect.While we are on the topic, education programs also have a limited effect, as stereotypes are resiliant to change. Eradicating value judgements is next to impossible.
Reclassifying mental disorders as medical (organic) disorders is working to a certain extent.
Probably the best way to change stereotypes, and thus decrease stigma, is through familiarity; getting to know someone with a mental disorder as a person. To have the public realize that we are not dangerous (at least to others) and that 1/5 to 1/4 of all people in the industrialized world will, at some point in their life, require professional assistance for a mental health problem. I really doubt that Wonderland will portray us as such.
Are you listening (lurking), ABC?
Just Cam W. preaching to the converted.
Posted by Noa on April 8, 2000, at 14:45:57
In reply to Re: ABC's Wonderland, posted by Cam W. on April 7, 2000, at 21:39:25
It is perhaps presumptuous of me to comment before having seen the show at all, but from what I have read, the biggest issue is that this is a hospital unit for people with psychiatric disorders who are involved with the criminal justice system (forensic, as you said) and some or many of them have violent behaviors, and this might give people the impression that all people with psychiatric disorders have such tendencies. Also, someone here also mentioned that the point of view is usually from the hospital staff, not the patient, and I think it would be good to show from the patient's point of view, and that of the families, what struggling with mental illness can be like. Gotta start watching. If I do manage to catch it, I am sure I'll have more to say.
Posted by Abby on April 8, 2000, at 20:01:50
In reply to Re: ABC's Wonderland, posted by Noa on April 8, 2000, at 14:45:57
> It is perhaps presumptuous of me to comment before having seen the show at all, but from what I have read, the biggest issue is that this is a hospital unit for people with psychiatric disorders who are involved with the criminal justice system (forensic, as you said) and some or many of them have violent behaviors, and this might give people the impression that all people with psychiatric disorders have such tendencies. Also, someone here also mentioned that the point of view is usually from the hospital staff, not the patient, and I think it would be good to show from the patient's point of view, and that of the families, what struggling with mental illness can be like. Gotta start watching. If I do manage to catch it, I am sure I'll have more to say.
Forensic psychiatry isn't just criminal; it's anything having to do with courts, including civil commitments for suicide attempts etc. It seemed to me to be saying something about the fallibility of the doctors and their imperfections. All in all, a pretty subtle show. So far there've only been 2 episodes.
There was one glaring error. One of the psychiatrists said that men attempt to commit suicide more often, but that women are generally more succesful. I believe that it's the reverse of that.
Posted by Renee N on April 10, 2000, at 0:59:51
In reply to Re: ABC's Wonderland, posted by Abby on April 8, 2000, at 20:01:50
> There was one glaring error. One of the psychiatrists said that men attempt to commit suicide more often, but that women are generally more succesful. I believe that it's the reverse of that.
>
You're absolutely right. I was very surprised at the error. Maybe we should ask them to correct it. Renee N
Posted by Rebecca on April 12, 2000, at 17:20:14
In reply to Re: ABC's Wonderland, posted by Abby on April 8, 2000, at 20:01:50
Peter Berg, the creator/writer/producer of Wonderland was on NPR's Fresh Air yesterday. I haven't seen the show, but here's my completely subjective opinion of the interview...
He said that he hadn't realized how angry and frustrated the people involved in NAMI would be--I think about mental illness in general and the show in particular. Did he not expect people to react strongly? It sounded like he went to Bellevue looking for ideas for a show, but didn't get beyond objectifying the patients as sources for possible characters/storylines. I really noticed a lack of compassion and empathy. He sounded intrigued by people who experience life diffferently, but it never really got beyond a detached interest.
Terry Gross also said that ABC put the show on hiatus yesterday (the interview was taped last week).
Anyone else hear the interview?
Posted by Abby on April 13, 2000, at 15:13:18
In reply to Re: ABC's Wonderland, posted by Rebecca on April 12, 2000, at 17:20:14
I just listened to this online. It's true that he didn't *sound* empathetic, but I think that he did care. He was also very careful to point out that Rikel didn't stab Lili with the needle.
Based on his Chicago Hope appearances, I can say that he doesn't seem to be a very good actor. His attempts to show empathy naturally always seemed forced, but it was clear that he was trying to make the character compassionate. He writes much better than he acts himself. There were bits that seemed odd. In her review, Lili, head of emergency care, said that she relied largely on gut instinct. I don't wish to minimize the role of instinct, but it could have been clearer that there are diagnostic criteria. Anyway, I don't know.
NAMI attacks the show, because it's not representative, but 'art' isn't supposed to be or it would be boring. We could have TV families with 2 whole children and 2/10 of one. Rikel's psychotic delusions were centred on classical myths. His father fills in the detail that he studied Classics at Columbia. I studied Classics at Harvard. I don't feel offended that a classicist is portrayed as a paranoid schizophrenic. It doesn't reflect on me. I could, of course, argue that there was a pattern of showing Classicists as wackos. A novel came out about 8 or 10 years ago about the small group of people at a New England college who studied Classics. THey decided to recreate the Bacchanalian rites and killed the dumb one among them. There are some Classics people who are a bit weird, though I doubt anybody is trying to recreate Bacchanalian rites in real life. Indeed, that would make a lot of sense. Somebody has argued, and it's very controversial, that schizophrenia is the price we humans pay for having such exquisite linguistic abilities.Just my a $.02
Posted by Rebecca on April 13, 2000, at 17:06:46
In reply to Re: ABC's Wonderland and Fresh Air--Rebecca, posted by Abby on April 13, 2000, at 15:13:18
Abby--
I'm glad you didn't think he was such a jerk--I was hoping it was just my ignorant opinon, not having seen the show!
Posted by claudea on April 15, 2000, at 12:13:19
In reply to Re: ABC's Wonderland and Fresh Air--Abby, posted by Rebecca on April 13, 2000, at 17:06:46
According to NAMI, the show has been pulled off of the air permanantly after only two episodes! Yeah, because it did show the worst cases.
This is the end of the thread.
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