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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ryan_s on February 20, 2000, at 4:02:37
is naltrexone (revia) the real thing. for all of the research that i have done to find a medication that will help treat depression on the web, the personal responses to revia shocked me. there were about four things that blew my hair back when reading about personal experiences with revia. first, i have never seen such an enthusiastic response to any pyschiatric drug. second, revia starts to work in a matter of hours. third, even though revia is used to treat alcoholism, many depressants have found miracle qualities in revia. fourth, i could not and still can not figure out why there is such an overwhelming response to revia, but it is far less perscribed compared to any ssri. please if anyone has info on revia or wants to give their personal experience with this drug reply asap. i am thinking about taking this since my father was an alcoholic.
thank you so much,
ryan_s
Posted by ChrisK on February 20, 2000, at 5:33:30
In reply to miracle drug! (revia), posted by ryan_s on February 20, 2000, at 4:02:37
Ryan,
I have been taking Naltrexone for a few months now. At the time I requested it it was because of my own alcoholism. Within 2 or 3 days I noticed an improvement in my depression. At the time I was only taking Norttriptyline and Zyprexa for the depression. I take 50mg Naltrexone at night and haven't had any problems with it. I don't think it is the be all and end all but it has been a good augmenter for me.
Good Luck if you decide to try it.
Chris
P.S. If you haven't done it already then go to the Tips section of Dr Bob's site and search on Naltrexone for some more info.
Posted by jd on February 20, 2000, at 16:38:40
In reply to Re: miracle drug! (revia), posted by ChrisK on February 20, 2000, at 5:33:30
Ryan,
It's true that Revia (naltrexone) has helped a lot of people with chronic and/or refractory depression--not always within hours, but often within a few days to several weeks. It's mostly used as an augmentation strategy for people who have good initial response to SSRIs then "poop out" after a while. (Thus it's usually taken concurrantly with an SSRI like Prozac.) As you note, it's especially worth a trial in people who have personal (or family) histories of alcohol and/or opiate dependence or other impulse disorders--so, yes, it may definitely be another option for you to discuss with your new doctor!
--jd> Ryan,
>
> I have been taking Naltrexone for a few months now. At the time I requested it it was because of my own alcoholism. Within 2 or 3 days I noticed an improvement in my depression. At the time I was only taking Norttriptyline and Zyprexa for the depression. I take 50mg Naltrexone at night and haven't had any problems with it. I don't think it is the be all and end all but it has been a good augmenter for me.
>
> Good Luck if you decide to try it.
>
> Chris
>
> P.S. If you haven't done it already then go to the Tips section of Dr Bob's site and search on Naltrexone for some more info.
Posted by JohnL on February 21, 2000, at 5:18:08
In reply to miracle drug! (revia), posted by ryan_s on February 20, 2000, at 4:02:37
Indeed the personal responses concerning Naltrexone look pretty awesome. I wish I could share similar success stories.
I tried Naltrexone twice, as an augmenter to Prozac. The first trial was 7 weeks at 25mg. I felt a little better after a couple weeks, but nothing spectacular. Strangely, any minor benefit actually pooped out in a few days. I gave up broken hearted at the failure of my new found miracle drug. The second trial was for three weeks at 50mg. I figured maybe 25mg wasn't enough. This time Naltrexone again seemed to help somewhat for a couple days, but then pooped out. 50mg seemed no more than a sugar pill to me.
All of our metabolisms and chemical imbalances are so unique, and that's why some things work and others don't in various people. The doctor who first pioneered Naltrexone augmentation has treated over 200 patients successfully. Of those he claims remarkable results 10% of the time and marked results a good 75% of the time. He does admit failures as well. Unfortunately I fall in the 25% nonresponder broken-dreams group.
I was a chronic marijuana abuser for decades. But I never had any alcohol abuse. These days I drink perhaps three or four glasses of wine a year. The last time I had a glass was in a fancy restaurant. I was very much looking forward to the tipsy buzz I get from just a glass of wine. But nothing. The wine was like kool-aid. I was quite disappointed and puzzled. It was only later that I realized, ahhh, it was the Naltrexone!
Posted by Wayne R. on February 21, 2000, at 5:38:27
In reply to miracle drug! (revia), posted by ryan_s on February 20, 2000, at 4:02:37
Ryan, Naltrexone is the "real thing" for me, but as John points out, not for everyone. It has been like a miracle for nearly a year and a half now and has changed my life. You will find many of my postings over the last year in the previous messages section. Wishing you a miracle... Wayne
Posted by ryan_s on February 22, 2000, at 4:07:31
In reply to Re: miracle drug! (revia), posted by Wayne R. on February 21, 2000, at 5:38:27
Wayne,
first of all thank you for your response to my posting. i just want to tell you that i find your story of naltrexone simply incredible. for someone, like you suffering for so long, to finally be able to find relief and your true self is remarkable. congrats!
now lets talk a little business. i too have suffered from depression for about two years (it definately has ruined my life). the depression began the first time i got drunk at a new years eve party while i was a freshman in college. i remember waking up on new years feeling like i was in a dream. this first taste of depression literally scared the shit out of me. to make a long story short, the depression from new years on never seemed to go away. there was no longer an urge or excitement to talk to friends and live my life. because of this lack of motivation i eventually, after one and a half years of being depressed, turned myself into a psychiatrist. i told the pdoc my symptoms, and that my father was an alcoholic. the doctor decided to put me on prozac. the prozac made the depression worse. in the following year i was on paxil, buspar, celexa, neurontin, remoron, zyprexa, and seroquel with little improvement. my two concerns, before i let her rip on naltrexone, are based on emotions and gratitude. wayne, from your experience, does the naltrexone dull your emotions like the ssri's have been known to do? second, i have heard that naltrexone blunts gratification after, lets say running. from my research this blunting of gratification from excercise is do to the endorphins being blocked by naltrexone. wayne do you feel like there is no possible way to get a runners high or simply get excited to see a long lost friend? i would really appreciate your response!
life is always full of love,
ryan_s
> Ryan, Naltrexone is the "real thing" for me, but as John points out, not for everyone. It has been like a miracle for nearly a year and a half now and has changed my life. You will find many of my postings over the last year in the previous messages section. Wishing you a miracle... Wayne
Posted by carter on February 22, 2000, at 19:56:53
In reply to Re: ATTENTION WAYNE!, posted by ryan_s on February 22, 2000, at 4:07:31
>does the naltrexone dull your emotions like the
>ssri's have been known to do? second, i have heard
>that naltrexone blunts gratification after, lets
>say running. from my research this blunting of
>gratification from excercise is do to the endorphins
>being blocked by naltrexone. wayne do you feel like
>there is no possible way to get a runners high or
>simply get excited to see a long lost friend? i
>would really appreciate your response!Me too! I remember soon after my introduction to SSRIs (Zoloft),
I confided warily in a friend that after excercise, I no longer
felt endorphin release- not even a little. As a depressed kid, I
used to run just for the endorphins, as a crude (but at the time,
beautiful) self-treatment. While I'd gladly trade that for more
functionally on-target meds, the change was indicative of the
general dulling effect.Somewhere along the line of trying different meds, I picked up the
habit of calling them either 'high' or 'low ceiling.' The latter
meant that (regardless of benefits), the drug enacted a pervasive
cognitive change, whereas a high-ceiling drug (again, regardless
of its benefits) had a less overbearing presence. It would be nice
if more ADs were like that, naltrexone included (right now I'm just
on Serzone, from which I'm getting a decent high-ceiling AD
response).
Posted by ryan_s on February 22, 2000, at 23:26:33
In reply to Re: ATTENTION WAYNE!, posted by carter on February 22, 2000, at 19:56:53
carter,
thanks alot for the reply. hopefully this dulling of emotions will soon subside with modern antidepressants. if you hear any encouraging news about new medications or old please email me at [xxx]. once again, thanks for the response.
"life is love lived",
ryan_s
Posted by Wayne R. on February 24, 2000, at 6:51:58
In reply to Re: ATTENTION WAYNE!, posted by ryan_s on February 22, 2000, at 4:07:31
Ryan, I have been out of town on business for a few days. Sorry for the delay...
Remember that I AM on an SSRI, Prozac 20 in my case, because Naltrexone is not an antidepressant on its own. It works by augmenting one of the SSRI's.
I do have some of the typical SSRI side effects. However, they are quite tolerable at that low dose. I have no sense of any flattening of my emotions and I enjoy physical activities like never before. I an not a runner and so cannot comment on the "runner's high".
When I started the Naltrexone I first chose the SSRI I wanted to augment based on previous experience. I got up to speed on the Prozac prior to adding the Naltrexone in tiny increments.
If you decide to give it a try, I sure wish you the success I have had. Wayne
Posted by Karen on February 24, 2000, at 23:31:21
In reply to Re: ATTENTION WAYNE!, posted by Wayne R. on February 24, 2000, at 6:51:58
> Ryan, I have been out of town on business for a few days. Sorry for the delay...
>
> Remember that I AM on an SSRI, Prozac 20 in my case, because Naltrexone is not an antidepressant on its own. It works by augmenting one of the SSRI's.
>
> I do have some of the typical SSRI side effects. However, they are quite tolerable at that low dose. I have no sense of any flattening of my emotions and I enjoy physical activities like never before. I an not a runner and so cannot comment on the "runner's high".
>
> When I started the Naltrexone I first chose the SSRI I wanted to augment based on previous experience. I got up to speed on the Prozac prior to adding the Naltrexone in tiny increments.
>
> If you decide to give it a try, I sure wish you the success I have had. WayneDid you choose the Prozac because it was partially effective or merely because it had the fewest side effects for you? People talk a lot about augmentation but I`ve never been clear whether for augmentation to work the agent being augmented has to be at least partially effective on its own.
Posted by Noa on February 25, 2000, at 2:24:50
In reply to Re: ATTENTION WAYNE! (And others, re augmentation, posted by Karen on February 24, 2000, at 23:31:21
My impression is yes, you need a "base" that is at least partially effective. For me, augmentation became the strategy when I had difficulty tolerating higher doses of meds(more adverse effects at higher doses), which had been effective, but were losing effectiveness.
Posted by Wayne R. on February 25, 2000, at 5:26:01
In reply to Re: ATTENTION WAYNE! (And others, re augmentation, posted by Noa on February 25, 2000, at 2:24:50
I would tend to agree with Noa. I guess it might be possible for an augmentation agent to switch on an SSRI that did not work in the past, but, for myself, I chose to work with one that had shown that it could provide relief and not have a bad side effect profile.
In my situation, I got short term relief from most SSRI's but nothing would stick. Wayne
Posted by Scott L. Schofield on February 27, 2000, at 9:59:07
In reply to Re: ATTENTION WAYNE! (And others, re augmentation, posted by Wayne R. on February 25, 2000, at 5:26:01
> I would tend to agree with Noa. I guess it might be possible for an augmentation agent to switch on an SSRI that did not work in the past, but, for myself, I chose to work with one that had shown that it could provide relief and not have a bad side effect profile.
> In my situation, I got short term relief from most SSRI's but nothing would stick. Wayne
What about augmentation using pindolol, Serzone, Wellbutrin, or even low-dose lithium? You gotta be careful, though, when combining serotonergic drugs. Serotonin syndrome can occur. Although I'm sure that this is not a common occurrence (except with MAOIs), I have seen reports involving SSRIs combined with lithium and I believe Serzone as well.
I wonder if anyone has tried adding Remeron to an SSRI?
- Scott
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