![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 3 of 3. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Mike on September 17, 1999, at 13:31:37
Hi,
Anyone have experience in successfully treating social phobia with SJW either LI-160 (Lictwer Pharma AG), brand name "Kira" in the U.S. or WS-5572 (Boehringer-Ingleheim), brand name "Movana" in the U.S.? LI-160 is the patented compound of SJW used in the majority of clinical research which I was able to find in my search of PubMed. It's standardized to 0.3% hypericin. It's also the compound currently in clinical trials sponsored by the NIMH and overseen by J. Davidson.
However, some recent research suggests the most efficacious component of SJW may be hyperforin, as opposed to hypericin (see PubMed). WS-5572 is a patented extraction standardized to a minimum of 3.0% hyperforin and 0.3% hypericin. Apparently, Boehringer has developed a special process for extracting the hyperforin and then enabling it to have substantial shelf-life.
Also, any information on dosage would help, if you have had a successful experiences. I see through PubMed that the majority of research has been with LI-160 at 900 mg/day. This may be sub-therapeutic. I've heard of people taking 1800 mg/day to 2400 mg/day. Concerns of photoxicity even at that level may not be completely significant. I understand that most issues of photoxicity have involved compounds other than LI-160 or WS-5572, or have come from livestock grazing on the raw herb, H. Perforatum.
Posted by JohnL on September 17, 1999, at 17:06:13
In reply to Pharma Grade SJW for SP: LI-160 or WS-5572?, posted by Mike on September 17, 1999, at 13:31:37
Hello Mike. It's hard to find anyone who has done real well with St Johnswort. Plenty of clinical studies show it to be effective in mild to moderate depression, but I think the jury is still out on major depression. Don't know if it has any effect on social phobia. I too think the standard 900mg dose is probably way too low, and thus the general lack of enthusiasm about it among folks who really need a precrip.
Hyperforin has recently been suspected as being the MAOI ingredient of St Johns. I read a study that showed high hyperforin content St Johns was far superior to low hyperforin, and that hypericin had little effect by itself. Lictwer answered my email question on this very issue. They said studies haven't conclusively proved that hyperforin is that important, but that the blend of various compounds in St Johns is...hyperforin being one of those compounds. They stressed to me that all the compounds are needed to work synergistically and that only LI 160 (Kira) has been designed and clinically tested that way. They also said though that if hyperforin is important to me, LI 160 has 3% to 5% hyperforin, which is high.
Another brand is Nature's Way, available in some healthfood stores, with its special St Johns version called Perika. It has the usual 0.3% hypericin, but also a guaranteed 3% minimum hyperforin. Personally I believe there are many ingredients of unknown mechanism in St Johns, and that hyperforin is a major player among them. Just an opinion. So I would favor Kira as a first choice because of its track record, and Perika as a second choice as it attempts to jump on the bandwagon. All others probably vary too much from one batch to the next, with only hypericin being the standard focus. No telling really what you're getting each purchase. With Kira or Perika you know you're getting the same thing each time.
Most studies have been done at 900mg. But I saw a study somewhere with 2700mg. I would think at that dose it might have side effects comparable to a prescrip, but maybe work as well too. I think the risk of photosensitivity is only at doses higher than we could possibly consume. The exception being certain ethnic groups or folks with very fair skin complexion. St Johns is always an interesting topic, and I can't wait to see some results of long term studies of it in major depression.
Posted by TOM on September 18, 1999, at 20:55:19
In reply to Re: Pharma Grade SJW for SP: LI-160 or WS-5572?, posted by JohnL on September 17, 1999, at 17:06:13
>Perika is WS 5572 extract which contains a minimum 3 % hyperforin content. If LI-160 also contains minimum 3% hyperforin, whats the difference??
Hello Mike. It's hard to find anyone who has done real well with St Johnswort. Plenty of clinical studies show it to be effective in mild to moderate depression, but I think the jury is still out on major depression. Don't know if it has any effect on social phobia. I too think the standard 900mg dose is probably way too low, and thus the general lack of enthusiasm about it among folks who really need a precrip.
>
> Hyperforin has recently been suspected as being the MAOI ingredient of St Johns. I read a study that showed high hyperforin content St Johns was far superior to low hyperforin, and that hypericin had little effect by itself. Lictwer answered my email question on this very issue. They said studies haven't conclusively proved that hyperforin is that important, but that the blend of various compounds in St Johns is...hyperforin being one of those compounds. They stressed to me that all the compounds are needed to work synergistically and that only LI 160 (Kira) has been designed and clinically tested that way. They also said though that if hyperforin is important to me, LI 160 has 3% to 5% hyperforin, which is high.
>
> Another brand is Nature's Way, available in some healthfood stores, with its special St Johns version called Perika. It has the usual 0.3% hypericin, but also a guaranteed 3% minimum hyperforin. Personally I believe there are many ingredients of unknown mechanism in St Johns, and that hyperforin is a major player among them. Just an opinion. So I would favor Kira as a first choice because of its track record, and Perika as a second choice as it attempts to jump on the bandwagon. All others probably vary too much from one batch to the next, with only hypericin being the standard focus. No telling really what you're getting each purchase. With Kira or Perika you know you're getting the same thing each time.
>
> Most studies have been done at 900mg. But I saw a study somewhere with 2700mg. I would think at that dose it might have side effects comparable to a prescrip, but maybe work as well too. I think the risk of photosensitivity is only at doses higher than we could possibly consume. The exception being certain ethnic groups or folks with very fair skin complexion. St Johns is always an interesting topic, and I can't wait to see some results of long term studies of it in major depression.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.