![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 345 to 369 of 488. Go back in thread:
Posted by Holly VanBen on September 1, 2006, at 13:10:36
In reply to Re: Description of Panic Attack, posted by tiredofpanic on September 1, 2006, at 0:03:29
> Hi Holly and Jim,
>
> Holly, indeed that is what all of us are here for, and thank God for this forum!
>
> What were you on Opiates for? I am not sure about the withdrawl from these, but I suspect that panic could be a withdrawl symptom, that or you are too nervous getting off the medication, maybe there is another side effect you are dreading perhaps? If you can check with your doctor and if not check with the pharmacy you got the drugs from. I've found if you talk to them nicely they may answer your questions, as they know more about the drugs than the doctors do, but are not doctors so are not able to answer some questions, but you can try, just be nice.
>
> Jimbo, good to hear from you! lol! Glad you weren't trying to pick me up or something, you would have gotten a surprise boy! ha ha.
>
> I now have a Holitor monitor I am going to wear at night for about 3-4 nights, this is going back to that study I mentioned a few weeks ago. We;ll see waht they can get out of it. I was wrong it is not a sleep monitor like I was hoping for, it is only a heart monitor, but they know based on the heart rythms when you are in rem sleep or awake, etc. We'll see what happens. I've been very shakey lately and unable to sleep. and of course now that I have the monitor I slept early and actually slept through the night without getting up for hours on end. I woke up sevearl times, but thats ok.
>
> Glad you are doing well. Glad you can reunite with your friends that will really help you, and especially those who have had problems before. Glad you are feeling happier! That is a good sign.
>
> CheersThank you for your response. I responded to Jim before reading yours and yes I do think it is withdrawal symptoms still acting up, it just took me a few days to figure it out. I keep hoping they will miraculously stop, but hey 24 days and its much better so no complaining from me. Well maybe a little LOL.
I have worn that halter thing before and really hope it shows something for you. Are they making you push that bloody button every time you feel just about anything? I swear that button made me paranoid so I pushed it all the time. LOL Its not the most comfortable thing either, but I really hope it shows something minor and fixable. I always approach any of these tests with hope they will find something that they can say "Oh hey that's what was causing ALL these problems, we can fix that easy with no consequences and make you good as new". Probably not very realsitic and hasn't happened yet, but I figure it has to happen to people all the time so this time I hope it is you.
Keep me posted.
Holly
Posted by LIFE on September 5, 2006, at 23:18:25
In reply to Re: Description of Panic Attack, posted by Holly VanBen on September 1, 2006, at 13:10:36
Hey Jimbo, finally! Glad to hear from you and that you are alright. ToP and I have been discussing the Clarocet that I think you mentioned to us a couple of months ago. Hey there Holly, what a coinky-dink! I was with a friend on Sunday and she mentioned not having to take Ambien since beginning to take a tea she makes from the herb Scullcap, she said she takes a cup about an hour before bedtime and says she has the most wonderful dreams! I believe her as she is dealing with a 27yr old schizophrenic son who has been in and out of group homes several times this year and has threatened on several occasions to termminate her and her younger son, they sleep with locks on their doors and she is a baggage check officer at our very large airport. So if it works for her then maybe it will work for you too. She said the Ambien left her feeling out of sorts the next day. I purchased some Skullcap myself, but since I still take Remeron every night I am not a good measure for its effects on sleep and dreams, I can tell you that it successfully lowered my blood pressure which was a couple of points higher than normal due to stress from worrying about my parents and great aunt(who seems destined to be stricken with Alzheimers' which took my paternal grandmother). I am happy for you ,Jimbo, you sound pleased with your move and am glad you are still Remeron-free. Thank you and ToP for your descriptions of panic attacks, it helps me to understand your withdrawal symptoms better and your fears of living without meds. Sure seems to have helped Holly to have someone who knows what those attacks are about. Again, I just know about black holes. I have never had opiates either. Keep me posted folks, and I have not given up my quest to either purchase some Clarocet or make some. I am working feverishly to make some cash. I told the aforementioned mother about the Clarocet, she was excited and wanted to go to the website for both herself and her son, he is tired of medication and she thinks he might be more inclined to take the Clarocet and a reduced amount of his present medications, sorry I don't know what those are. I should see her in about a month, she is going on a much deserved vacation. And, just for the record, Jimbo and ToP, I am a girl, for real. Life
Posted by tiredofpanic on September 5, 2006, at 23:43:59
In reply to Re: Description of Panic Attack, posted by Holly VanBen on September 1, 2006, at 13:10:36
Hi Holly, sorry I didnt reply sooner.
The Holitor monitor was interesting. But you know what If I had had it two days more they would have really gotten some good data as I felt like crap the last two days, cannot sleep, VERY panicy to the point where I didnt know what to do. It lasted about 36 hours or more, oh well. Anyway they hopefully will get some good data from the 48 hours that I used it and hopefully there is either no problem or they can find something that is causing the insomnia and panic. We'll see.
Anyway, good luck to you and hopefully your panic symptoms will fade away soon as you wean yourself off the meds.
Posted by tiredofpanic on September 5, 2006, at 23:47:35
In reply to Ambien withdrawal, posted by LIFE on September 5, 2006, at 23:18:25
Hi Life, thanks for clarifying your sex! ha ha. :-)
I thought you were off the Remeron, or wait that was Jim I think.
So how is your Clarcet concuction going? I am still debating on ordering it or not. I have yet to visit a herbalist here to see if they can do it. I spoke to one, but they need to see me in order to make something work, need to check the vains, etc to see what exactely is the problem, they won't just give me the valvarian root.
Anyway....
ToP
Posted by LIFE on September 9, 2006, at 14:54:09
In reply to Re: Ambien withdrawal, posted by tiredofpanic on September 5, 2006, at 23:47:35
Hey there ToP, nope, I am not off the meds, my depression is too severe to risk it without a definite replacement. I cannot find two of the key ingredients in the Clarocet, am still looking, but it looks like I am going to have to throw in the towel and purchase the appropriate formula. Yes, it is Jim who is toughing it out without his meds, he seems to be so strong in spite of some pretty scary withdrawal symptoms, I am rooting for him. I could try to send you some Valerian root if you would like. I don't know the protocol where you are as far as mail tampering is concerned (customs regulations, etc.) but I am willing to give it a try if you think it would help you. I am having a miniscule episode even with my meds and herbs, but that is why I still take them, they reduce the severity of my attacks. In fact, I was thinking of going to another thread because you all don't need any further information from me except perhaps the results of my Clarocet experience or a few herbs that help with sleep and sugar and caffeine addictions. I would miss you and Jim, but I feel I am being unfair using space for people who are going without their meds until I go through a cleansing period myself. Life
Posted by tiredofpanic on September 9, 2006, at 23:56:09
In reply to Re: Ambien withdrawal, posted by LIFE on September 9, 2006, at 14:54:09
Hi Life,
Good to hear from you. I would like to know what exactely the Valerain Root is supposed to do? What does it effect?
I think I found some here, but not sure it is the root or just the plant. I tired to explain I wanted the root, but I am not sure if it is or not. They put it in a capsule and the herb is like a dark brown powder. The doc said that it is for relaxation, but may induce sleep. I have taken one every night for the last 3-4 nights. The first night slept ok, the second and third night, blah! Didnt get to bed until 5-6am. And last night slept for 10 hours. I would imagine that this stuff is NOT going to work overnight though and that your body should begin to build up a little bit of a tolerace. Just like with the Clarocet they told me I need about 6 weeks or so to gauge whether it is helping or not. What do you think about this?
For right now, I will pass on you sending me some, but will keep the idea open and thank you so much for offering that.
We need to help you find a job, how old are you, and what are you good at?
I think you can post anywhere, but actually I think this is for withdrawl symptoms and we have gotten way off the topic of this thread. Well wherever you go let me know, maybe I can join those and offer advice in those threads to you. ha ha.
anyway...
> Hey there ToP, nope, I am not off the meds, my depression is too severe to risk it without a definite replacement. I cannot find two of the key ingredients in the Clarocet, am still looking, but it looks like I am going to have to throw in the towel and purchase the appropriate formula. Yes, it is Jim who is toughing it out without his meds, he seems to be so strong in spite of some pretty scary withdrawal symptoms, I am rooting for him. I could try to send you some Valerian root if you would like. I don't know the protocol where you are as far as mail tampering is concerned (customs regulations, etc.) but I am willing to give it a try if you think it would help you. I am having a miniscule episode even with my meds and herbs, but that is why I still take them, they reduce the severity of my attacks. In fact, I was thinking of going to another thread because you all don't need any further information from me except perhaps the results of my Clarocet experience or a few herbs that help with sleep and sugar and caffeine addictions. I would miss you and Jim, but I feel I am being unfair using space for people who are going without their meds until I go through a cleansing period myself. Life
Posted by LIFE on September 11, 2006, at 8:53:43
In reply to Re: Ambien withdrawal, posted by tiredofpanic on September 9, 2006, at 23:56:09
Hey ToP, When powdered, Valerian looks just as you described. Normally, the root is coarsely ground and resembles gravel( that's the form I always use) It is indeed used for relaxation but I use it in coffee and after eating chocolate to balance and counteract the effects of the caffeine in both. I also found it helpful when quitting marijuana. It also helps when I have aches and pains as well as killing parasites ( I walk barefoot outside a lot). It does take some getting used to and herbs sometimes take as long or even a little longer to see results since you are dealing with nature and not good old fashioned lab poisions like your usual meds and chemical sedatives. But if you decide not to continue taking it I can guarantee you won't suffer any adverse side affects. Thanks for the offer to help me find some additional employment. I've put in some applications for overnight stocking/part-time since I have a business providing hand-made hair accessories to local salons and am pursuing my degree in Fashion Design ( In fact, when I finish here I have a phone conference with my professor of Fashion History) I want a low key benign form of employment right now. I am a former teacher with a graduate degree and I am retired at 48yrs of age. I am in no way interested in teaching anyone anything, I'll share knowledge, but I won't teach. I am finally becoming the artist I have always wanted to be and art requires creative time. My career was a huge factor in the development of my depressive symptoms. I am a pleaser and a perfectionist, my career choice was not my own and when I poured my heart and soul into it, it f'd me up big time. I'm broke but happy and I know more about myself than I ever have and this is the best I have ever managed my illness since my first few years of college. I just need some change for supplies with which to build inventory and to purchase some Clarocet and take care of my kitty cats. Don't be surprised if I tell you I'm stocking shelves at Wal Mart or a grocers. I'll let you know when I switch threads "fersure". Gotta go talk to my professor, I'll be in touch! Life
Posted by tiredofpanic on September 11, 2006, at 9:24:23
In reply to Valerian Root, posted by LIFE on September 11, 2006, at 8:53:43
Hi Life, thanks for the reply. The Feds might be watching you, becareful about that weed crack! ha ha LOL! But that is very interesting.
Well it appears then that I must be taking the right stuff, just wish I could get it more correctly translated. Anyway... Well this will certainly help, but there are still other anxiety issues I want to deal with, but we will see after a few weeks how I feel taking it. They advised taking it only once at night and maybe once in the morning. It appears each capsule is 1g, is that alot? ha ha.
Well good luck finding employment. I have also taught some and even though I enjoy it, I know that really there is no future for me in that, but my current job creates a lot of stress, so it's six in one.. blah blah...
ToP
Posted by LIFE on September 16, 2006, at 12:46:50
In reply to Re: Valerian Root, posted by tiredofpanic on September 11, 2006, at 9:24:23
Hey there, ToP, glad to hear the Valerian might be working for you. Hope the Feds are keeping an eye out, they might learn something about the relationship betwixt street drugs and mental illness. I'm pretty certain they know about self medication, they've been daytripping for a long time now. LoL, fereal! They're welcome to a cup of my wee any ol' time, who needs reefer ( as my grandma called it) when I've got some federally funded dope! Yeah, buddy! Ha-ha. So, you taught for a while! It's true isn't it? Unless you love it the way my mom did for over forty years, and I mean it's got to be your one true love (no cheating with other dreams) then it isn't fulfilling except for participating with the children to fulfill their aspirations. I often found myself envious of their chances to be whatever they wanted to be. I worked devotedly alongside my students and I miss them, but I spent too many sleepless nights trying to fill the wanton artist in me after grading papers and realized I want nothing more than to create things as opposed to teaching them about being creative and imaginative. Sometimes I feel selfish having left them with the anal-retentives now in the profession, I'm a natural at it like my mom, but, my heart was with the kids not with the profession itself, hers was and I think I confused my natural ability to teach and communicate with my natural disposition being elsewhere. So, there wasn't a future for me in it either. Yep, an artist's life for me, I know the true meaning of " starving artist" now, LoL. Even though your job is stressful you do like it, right? Having no steady income is stressful too, but I could never go back to being that 'person'. Ever. I work very hard for less money, but, beaucous, peace of mind. You keep up the good regimen, and I'm sure Jim is making favorable progress. Well,, I'v been up since this time yesterday, needless to say I should take my meds and rest for a minute. So, goodnight, er ah, good afternoon. Over and out like a light! Life
Posted by Philip N. on October 1, 2006, at 15:31:25
In reply to CLEARER STATEMENT OF MY WITHDRAWAL OPINIONS, posted by LIFE on August 10, 2006, at 18:18:33
Hello Life!
How long are you able to stay off meds when you come off and does that make it harder for you to getting back started on meds? Is it OK to start and stop or does that make it harder to get up and going again when the Depression returns?
Thanks........Philip
Posted by sabbatini on October 27, 2006, at 9:34:08
In reply to Re: CLEARER STATEMENT OF MY WITHDRAWAL OPINIONS » LIFE, posted by Philip N. on October 1, 2006, at 15:31:25
I have been on 30 mg. of this drug for 1 year. It has been the worst experience of my life....the foggy brain, sleepless nights (although the first few weeks on this drug I slept like a baby)......I am taking 15 mg. for the last 2 months and I feel horrible. My depression is unbearable and my head hurts constantly. I've never had any of these affects before taking these meds. My Dr. thought it would be a good idea when my mom passed away last year. It numbed my pain all right but, now that I'm going off of these meds I am starting to feel again and now I'm going through the loss of my mom. I will keep trying to get off of these meds but, anyone trying to decide if they want to start......Please Give It a Second Thought. I would give anything to have this out of my system.
Posted by joslynn on December 5, 2006, at 12:45:06
In reply to Re: CLEARER STATEMENT OF MY WITHDRAWAL OPINIONS, posted by sabbatini on October 27, 2006, at 9:34:08
See this is an example where I think docs over-prescribe...of course you would be depressed, you mother died. Now if it went on an on past a normal mourning period, there could be some underlying depression that was triggered by the loss. But if not, then I don't understand why they would prescribe meds.
P.S. I am on 15 mg Remeron, and was given it when I was admitted to a mental hospital for a very severe depression that had left me not eating, not sleeping and close to suicide. I went to the ER as my last chance before hurting myself. So I understand why they gave me meds and I am not agains them in general. But to give meds to someone who is in natural mourning does not make sense to me....?
I am sorry about your mom.
Posted by adubu on December 31, 2006, at 21:53:39
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by Jon90211 on March 7, 2006, at 18:02:24
I was on 45mg of mirtazapine for three years.
I thought i'd try life without it although I'd experienced no side effects, not even weight gain. I abruptly stoped the medication and now I'm paying for it severly. It has been about two weeks since my last dose. I was fine for a few days, however its been all downhill since. The insomnia is horrible. I lay awake all night long and sweat even though its cold. In addition to my sleeplessness, I have developed a tick like behavior which feels like a sudden electric shock. I wish this would stop. I dont know if ill make it,and dont know what to do.
Posted by Maritza on April 16, 2007, at 21:50:41
In reply to Jim and Tired of Panic sugar cravings, posted by LIFE on August 18, 2006, at 22:55:36
I am on 15mg of Remeron which was reduced from 30mg 2weeks ago. It helped with severe anxiety and insomnia that I developed following surgery on my cervical spine (neck). Last night I thought I would just stop taking it because it is nearly impossible to wake up. I also have gained weight and my cholesterol in increased 60 points to 241 after being on it for 11 weeks. It was a big mistake to not take my dose. I developed severe anxiety and the runs by 12:30am, then took my 15mgs. I slept but woke up with anxiety, cramps, and head that spongebrain feeling with pressure in my head all day. I have been reading all of these blogs and it does help to know I am not alone. I'm looking for advice and support because I will be starting back to work soon and I'm wondering how any of you are able to wake up and be functional with all of these side effects/withdrwal symptoms. I'd also like to know if anyone has found relief for anxiety and/or insomnia with any specific naturopathic remedies? I wish all of you the best of luck with coming off of this stuff. I have found that prayer has helped.
Best Wishes!
Maritza
Posted by jimbobwe64 on April 17, 2007, at 22:32:30
In reply to Re: Jim and Tired of Panic sugar cravings, posted by Maritza on April 16, 2007, at 21:50:41
Hello Tired of Panic and Life. I just thought I'd say hi. I haven't been on here in an obviously incredibly long time. I'm still very much off the Remeron and it's been just over 10 months now. I've gone through some pretty rough times to get here and that's pretty much why I haven't been on here. At first it was mostly Depression and severe anxiety from the withdrawal. To tell you all, I've found from several really good and reputable sources that it really does take between 18 months to 2 years to get totally rid of the withdrawal symptoms. And I've learned that it really takes some great sacrifice and patience in order to alleviate these symptoms. I'm very glad to see that you two are still on this site and I'm very, very curious to hear how you've been doing. In addition if you or anyone else have any questions about what I've been through or what I've done to alleviate the bad thoughts, etc while I'm still "drying" out (lol), I'd be more than happy to embellish. I'm still having problems, but, finally my mind is 100 percent as sharp as it was before I went on AD's over 11 years ago. I'm hoping to hear from you soon.
Jim
Posted by Maritza on April 17, 2007, at 23:10:27
In reply to Re: Jim and Tired of Panic sugar cravings, posted by jimbobwe64 on April 17, 2007, at 22:32:30
> Hello Tired of Panic and Life. I just thought I'd say hi. I haven't been on here in an obviously incredibly long time. I'm still very much off the Remeron and it's been just over 10 months now. I've gone through some pretty rough times to get here and that's pretty much why I haven't been on here. At first it was mostly Depression and severe anxiety from the withdrawal. To tell you all, I've found from several really good and reputable sources that it really does take between 18 months to 2 years to get totally rid of the withdrawal symptoms. And I've learned that it really takes some great sacrifice and patience in order to alleviate these symptoms. I'm very glad to see that you two are still on this site and I'm very, very curious to hear how you've been doing. In addition if you or anyone else have any questions about what I've been through or what I've done to alleviate the bad thoughts, etc while I'm still "drying" out (lol), I'd be more than happy to embellish. I'm still having problems, but, finally my mind is 100 percent as sharp as it was before I went on AD's over 11 years ago. I'm hoping to hear from you soon.
>
> JimHi. I'm sorry to hear you are still having problems and the thought of 18- 24 months of withdrawal sounds unbearable. I am very interested in knowing how you handled it and how long you were on it. Did your cholesterol level sky rocket and was there any change in that or your weight since you've been "dry" lol. How did you taper and did you get chest pain and palpitations with the anxiety? I want to be off this stuff ASAP but I was sick as a dog after just taking a dose 4 hours late, digestive issues, palpitations, sweating, dead-head feeling and insomnia! Any advice or feedback is greatly appreciated. You are like a hero to me that you have been "clean" for 10 months. Did you take anything else? I really don't want to substitute or suplement meds. Is this possible? Do you work? God Bless you if you've managed to keep a job through all this! Thanks for your response!
Maritza
Posted by jimbobwe64 on April 25, 2007, at 12:04:47
In reply to Re: Jim and Tired of Panic sugar cravings, posted by Maritza on April 17, 2007, at 23:10:27
Hi, Maritza. Thanks for the post. It's been a really long struggle, however, I think I'm finally starting to see the light of day. There are still some "Cloudy" days ahead, but they're getting less and less as the weeks and months go by.
First of all, I'd like to say, I'm sorry to hear that you're yet another "Victim" of the Anti-Depressant/Sleep war. To this day I don't know why Uneducated GP's (general practioner Docs) prescribe these for sleep. A well informed and qualified psychologist would never do that, I'm pretty sure. However, they seem to be few and far between, don't they.
As for cholesterol, while I was taking Remeron, I'm really amazed that my level was fine, as I had extreme, and I do mean extreme, cravings for carbohydrates (refined sugars). This fact I'm sure would have eventually led me to have high levels of bad cholesterol.
Over the last 2 months (which I find has helped immensely) I cut out my refined sugars almost completely. It's extremely tough, but, I've found it to be the only way to keep any of the symptoms at bay. There is no easy solution other than that, from what I've found. As well I haven't had any alcohol for almost a year now, and I've found that to help.
Here is a website that I've found recently that has been helping me to understand a lot about what I'm going through with the "withdrawal" process. I have a feeling that it will help a lot of you out there.
antidepressantsfacts.com/reaction.htm
As for weaning, you will learn that with most people (so I've observed), you will have to take it really slowly. What I did (with the psych's advise) was to cut the pill in quarters and reduce the dosage by 1/4 for each month period. Keep in mind that I was on AD's for over 11 years.
If you have a look at this website, you will learn that taking most herbal aides (while on withdrawal) will do more to harm your sense of normalcy than to help. This includes things like St. John's Wort, 5-HTP etc (anything that adds additional serotonin). This doesn't mean that you can't try these things after your withdrawal process is complete, as I plan to resume my St. John's Wort (it really works for me).
As for the Chest Pains and palpitations, yes, I've definitely had them, but, only if I tried to wean too fast or forgot to take the daily dosage. It doesn't take much.
There were a few days, when I was extremely "weepy", yikes. And days where I just could not get out of bed whatsoever. I still get the weepiness once in a while, but at a very, very minimal rate and the intervals between are much larger.
And I guess that one of the most important things to help is "Diet, diet, diet". Having a truly balanced diet daily will definitely be of assistance.
But, you'll find everything important to know on that websites. There are other websites similar to this, but I think this is the best one.
If you would like to know more about what I've been through, by all means ask. I'd be more than happy to "Scare" you some more, lol. Just kidding, I'm eager to help.
Hope things improve for you.
Jim
Posted by brazilnut on May 31, 2007, at 14:49:47
In reply to Re: Jim and Tired of Panic sugar cravings, posted by jimbobwe64 on April 17, 2007, at 22:32:30
> Hello Tired of Panic and Life. I just thought I'd say hi. I haven't been on here in an obviously incredibly long time. I'm still very much off the Remeron and it's been just over 10 months now. I've gone through some pretty rough times to get here and that's pretty much why I haven't been on here. At first it was mostly Depression and severe anxiety from the withdrawal. To tell you all, I've found from several really good and reputable sources that it really does take between 18 months to 2 years to get totally rid of the withdrawal symptoms. And I've learned that it really takes some great sacrifice and patience in order to alleviate these symptoms. I'm very glad to see that you two are still on this site and I'm very, very curious to hear how you've been doing. In addition if you or anyone else have any questions about what I've been through or what I've done to alleviate the bad thoughts, etc while I'm still "drying" out (lol), I'd be more than happy to embellish. I'm still having problems, but, finally my mind is 100 percent as sharp as it was before I went on AD's over 11 years ago. I'm hoping to hear from you soon.
>
> JimHi, Jim!
I'm coming out from mirtazapine after almost 3 years on 45mg daily. It took 6 months to reach 50% of the original dosage and other 6 months to the point I'm now: one small fragment each 8 hours (the 3 taken in a day add up to about 2mg).
I'm having a very hard time, sometimes I feel I'll not bear all this, mainly the anxiety. The docs say it's just anxiety (yes, I have been anxious all my life), nothing to do with withdraw, and that I have to take A/Ds or anxiolitcs. (The last one offered me a "harmless" drug, trazadone... I tried 20+ of these drugs for 8 years before discovering they were the main problem - never more!)
So, could you please tell me more about the "several really good and reputable sources" you found? It would help me to convince the docs.
Regards,
Bob
Posted by Maritza on May 31, 2007, at 16:34:53
In reply to Re: Jim and Tired of Panic sugar cravings, posted by brazilnut on May 31, 2007, at 14:49:47
> > Hello Tired of Panic and Life. I just thought I'd say hi. I haven't been on here in an obviously incredibly long time. I'm still very much off the Remeron and it's been just over 10 months now. I've gone through some pretty rough times to get here and that's pretty much why I haven't been on here. At first it was mostly Depression and severe anxiety from the withdrawal. To tell you all, I've found from several really good and reputable sources that it really does take between 18 months to 2 years to get totally rid of the withdrawal symptoms. And I've learned that it really takes some great sacrifice and patience in order to alleviate these symptoms. I'm very glad to see that you two are still on this site and I'm very, very curious to hear how you've been doing. In addition if you or anyone else have any questions about what I've been through or what I've done to alleviate the bad thoughts, etc while I'm still "drying" out (lol), I'd be more than happy to embellish. I'm still having problems, but, finally my mind is 100 percent as sharp as it was before I went on AD's over 11 years ago. I'm hoping to hear from you soon.
> >
> > Jim
>
> Hi, Jim!
>
> I'm coming out from mirtazapine after almost 3 years on 45mg daily. It took 6 months to reach 50% of the original dosage and other 6 months to the point I'm now: one small fragment each 8 hours (the 3 taken in a day add up to about 2mg).
>
> I'm having a very hard time, sometimes I feel I'll not bear all this, mainly the anxiety. The docs say it's just anxiety (yes, I have been anxious all my life), nothing to do with withdraw, and that I have to take A/Ds or anxiolitcs. (The last one offered me a "harmless" drug, trazadone... I tried 20+ of these drugs for 8 years before discovering they were the main problem - never more!)
>
> So, could you please tell me more about the "several really good and reputable sources" you found? It would help me to convince the docs.
>
> Regards,
> Bob
>
Dear Brazilnut,
I tried going from 7.5mg Remeron to 0mg two weeks ago. My psychodoc gave me Celexa 10mg to help me ween down from 15mg to 7.5mg 1 month ago. I was ok with the 1st reduction but after I tried to stop I began feeling extreemely, tired and unmotivated. On the 5th day I developed severe anxiety symptoms, my heart was racing, cold sweats, the runs, etc, in addition to being extreemely tired. I went back on the 7.5mg that night and am still taking Celexa. I have been trying very hard to lose weight by dieting and exercising with no luck. My cholesterol level continues to rise (240mg/dl). I am completely disgusted and would appreciate any advice you can give. I want off of these meds. How did you deal with the anxiety and what are your reputable sources?
Thanks Maritza
Posted by brazilnut on May 31, 2007, at 21:40:42
In reply to Re: Jim and Tired of Panic sugar cravings, posted by Maritza on May 31, 2007, at 16:34:53
> Dear Brazilnut,
> I tried going from 7.5mg Remeron to 0mg two weeks ago. My psychodoc gave me Celexa 10mg to help me ween down from 15mg to 7.5mg 1 month ago. I was ok with the 1st reduction but after I tried to stop I began feeling extreemely, tired and unmotivated. On the 5th day I developed severe anxiety symptoms, my heart was racing, cold sweats, the runs, etc, in addition to being extreemely tired. I went back on the 7.5mg that night and am still taking Celexa. I have been trying very hard to lose weight by dieting and exercising with no luck. My cholesterol level continues to rise (240mg/dl). I am completely disgusted and would appreciate any advice you can give. I want off of these meds. How did you deal with the anxiety and what are your reputable sources?
> Thanks Maritza
>Dear Maritza,
I can tell only my own experience. I learned too late I am very sensitive to medicines. Mirtazapine is the last item, I hope, on a list of medicines I had to quit, and I am doing it very slowly.
To get around anxiety I use transcendental meditation, alternate breathing (a very simple and efficient yoga technique), exercising, any physical work (like garden tending or organizing things at home), ballroom dancing, and occasionally some wine. I try also not to be anxious about anxiety – just relax when bad times start.
As for medicines, I take a phytotherapic compound (natural) sold OTC here in Brazil named Remilev, an association of Valeriana officinalis L. and Humulus lupulus L. (I don’t know the English names for those plants – probably valeriana is valerian root.) It is said to have the sedative power of a benzodiazepine without the problems. I started taking also Inderal, which seems to work for most people as an anxiety inhibitor, but showed too strong for me. I tried to wean off, it was not easy, I decided to do it after the mirtazapine.
Perhaps it would be better for you to take a slower path in the reduction. The key is to be patient, persistent, and keep believing some day all this will be over.
My best regards,
Bob
Posted by brazilnut on June 2, 2007, at 17:25:19
In reply to Re: Mirtazapine Withdrawal, posted by musky on May 24, 2006, at 0:18:05
> >
> Hi valjean:
> YES, YES and YES... talk to anyone whos successfully come off an a/d... I have been tapering myself, very very slowly... its taken 2yrs+ if you can believe it.. but I am down to the lowest dose possible and am taking my LAST remeron tonight...
> Sounds like you have some xreactivity going on there.. with other meds etc.. as for too many things happening in your life, dont we all have events going on all the time??? Id look at it as now is the time to dig deep into your life and that may help a ton more than staying on the Remeron forever until "the time is right" so to speak,, The way I see it ,it is NEVER a right time... I understand your concern but you have to know deep inside when you are ready,, know it in your heart not by lifes issues.. they will always be there... Remeron or not..
>
> Good Luck
> Musky
...Hy Musky!
How are you now?
Bob
Posted by jimbobwe64 on June 6, 2007, at 0:24:43
In reply to Re: Jim and Tired of Panic sugar cravings, posted by brazilnut on May 31, 2007, at 14:49:47
> > Hello Tired of Panic and Life. I just thought I'd say hi. I haven't been on here in an obviously incredibly long time. I'm still very much off the Remeron and it's been just over 10 months now. I've gone through some pretty rough times to get here and that's pretty much why I haven't been on here. At first it was mostly Depression and severe anxiety from the withdrawal. To tell you all, I've found from several really good and reputable sources that it really does take between 18 months to 2 years to get totally rid of the withdrawal symptoms. And I've learned that it really takes some great sacrifice and patience in order to alleviate these symptoms. I'm very glad to see that you two are still on this site and I'm very, very curious to hear how you've been doing. In addition if you or anyone else have any questions about what I've been through or what I've done to alleviate the bad thoughts, etc while I'm still "drying" out (lol), I'd be more than happy to embellish. I'm still having problems, but, finally my mind is 100 percent as sharp as it was before I went on AD's over 11 years ago. I'm hoping to hear from you soon.
> >
> > Jim
>
> Hi, Jim!
>
> I'm coming out from mirtazapine after almost 3 years on 45mg daily. It took 6 months to reach 50% of the original dosage and other 6 months to the point I'm now: one small fragment each 8 hours (the 3 taken in a day add up to about 2mg).
>
> I'm having a very hard time, sometimes I feel I'll not bear all this, mainly the anxiety. The docs say it's just anxiety (yes, I have been anxious all my life), nothing to do with withdraw, and that I have to take A/Ds or anxiolitcs. (The last one offered me a "harmless" drug, trazadone... I tried 20+ of these drugs for 8 years before discovering they were the main problem - never more!)
>
> So, could you please tell me more about the "several really good and reputable sources" you found? It would help me to convince the docs.
>
> Regards,
> Bob
>
Hey, Bob,Thanks for the question. Sorry to hear about the problems you've been having. No anxiety is a good thing, regardless of what the cause is.
First of all, I'm not a doctor, so anything I say should be scrutinized (until you get to know me, then it should be really scrutinized, lol). Anyhow, everyone's metabolism is different and only you can tell if you truly should get off a certain medication. However, if you've had anxiety before you went on any A/D med, then you really should get to the root of the anxiety, whether it be psychological or due to diet.
Second, as for sources, I have a friend whose wife is a very, very good psychiatrist who has given me a lot of sound ideas towards my recovery. I've always gone with her ideas to my doctors and have convinced them about what to do. I've just recently retired from the Canadian military and have not always had proper access to good quality psychological assistance, therefore having to rely upon, in almost all cases, general practitioners to do the job. Another source I've found in recent months and kind of helps to keep me going is as follows:
http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/reaction.htmLike I said I don't know if your anxiety is something that can be managed without the assistance of meds or not. However, I do know one thing and that is that managing your diet can only do good things for you, if not only to relieve a few of the symptoms or the whole anxiety "kit and kaboodle".
All I can say is that I've made some major changes to my diet (because, quite frankly, mine was kinda poor) and it's helped my anxiety go way down to the point where I'm actually venturing without A/D's. something I would never have thought of about 3 or 4 years ago.
If you find that changing your diet's just not doing it to relieve the anxiety, then you should keep trying new A\D's until you find the right one for you. It is very important that I say that there are some people who simply should not be off those meds. And that alone is not a bad thing either, as well it doesn't make you a bad person because you're on A/D's, as it is definitely not your fault that you have a chemical deficiency.
The one question that I do have though, Bob, is: are the docs you're seeing qualified Psychiatrists or just General Practitioners??
Hopefully this helps a bit.
Jim
Posted by brazilnut on June 18, 2007, at 15:14:34
In reply to Re: Jim and Tired of Panic sugar cravings, posted by jimbobwe64 on June 6, 2007, at 0:24:43
> Hey, Bob,
>
> Thanks for the question. Sorry to hear about the problems you've been having. No anxiety is a good thing, regardless of what the cause is.
>
> First of all, I'm not a doctor, so anything I say should be scrutinized (until you get to know me, then it should be really scrutinized, lol). Anyhow, everyone's metabolism is different and only you can tell if you truly should get off a certain medication. However, if you've had anxiety before you went on any A/D med, then you really should get to the root of the anxiety, whether it be psychological or due to diet.
>
> Second, as for sources, I have a friend whose wife is a very, very good psychiatrist who has given me a lot of sound ideas towards my recovery. I've always gone with her ideas to my doctors and have convinced them about what to do. I've just recently retired from the Canadian military and have not always had proper access to good quality psychological assistance, therefore having to rely upon, in almost all cases, general practitioners to do the job. Another source I've found in recent months and kind of helps to keep me going is as follows:
> http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/reaction.htm
>
> Like I said I don't know if your anxiety is something that can be managed without the assistance of meds or not. However, I do know one thing and that is that managing your diet can only do good things for you, if not only to relieve a few of the symptoms or the whole anxiety "kit and kaboodle".
>
> All I can say is that I've made some major changes to my diet (because, quite frankly, mine was kinda poor) and it's helped my anxiety go way down to the point where I'm actually venturing without A/D's. something I would never have thought of about 3 or 4 years ago.
>
> If you find that changing your diet's just not doing it to relieve the anxiety, then you should keep trying new A\D's until you find the right one for you. It is very important that I say that there are some people who simply should not be off those meds. And that alone is not a bad thing either, as well it doesn't make you a bad person because you're on A/D's, as it is definitely not your fault that you have a chemical deficiency.
>
> The one question that I do have though, Bob, is: are the docs you're seeing qualified Psychiatrists or just General Practitioners??
>
> Hopefully this helps a bit.
>
> JimHi Jim!
Thanks for your kind answer and information. So late to answer because life is hard down here.I asked for your sources on A/D withdrawal because I have a hard time trying to convince doctors that W/D from some medicines may last for months. They say that after a month of stopping the intake there is no more medicine in my body, so what I feel is not related to it. As if W/Ds were caused by the presence of the medicine, not the absence… I would like to find some scientific references on this, but the closest thing I came across were Prof. Ashton’s studies on benzodiazepines.
I started taking A/Ds in 1997 thanks to the ignorance of two docs. The first, an ENT with whom I would have a snoring operation, prescribed Frontal for sleeping during vacations, and told nothing about how to stop it – so I went cold turkey. The second, a psychiatrist, misdiagnosed the following severe W/D crisis as depression. Followed 10 miserable years in which I had 4 different diagnostics and tried 20+ of the strongest medicines available.
Only two years ago I discovered, reading this website, that the medicines were not solution but at least part of the problem. (Of course, I understand this happens to me and a small minority only, and many people benefit from such medicines.) I started then a very slow and difficult process of weaning off. Today morning I took the last particle of mirtazapine - I was taking 1 small fragment of about 0.5mg 3 times a day for 15 days. One year ago it was 45mg daily.
This situation – years of mixing and changing medicines – made me very anxious, and I know no medicine will help me. I am naturally anxious, but I am sure that the many W/Ds I went through magnified my anxiety. To counterbalance the absence of the mirtazapine I am taking Saint John wort and ginkgo biloba. For the anxiety I take valeriana officinalis (valerian root?) combined with humulus lupulus (sorry, don’t know the English names of these plants).
As for diet, I am a vegetarian for … 50 years! (since in the last 8 years I have been eating fish too, I am actually a “fishtarian”). I eat a lot of fruits and healthy vegetables and take supplements such as magnesium and B vitamin. I used to drink wine regularly, for many years, but decreased it naturally as my symptoms worsened - now I take half a glass weekly, or even less. Some doctors said I should take a little more to cope with the anxiety, but I prefer to be cautious.
About the qualification of my docs, I have been recently 11 months with one and 7 months with another of the best reputed psychiatrists in town, and consulted once with four others. The last one, also a nationally renowned pharmacologist, seeing my medicine list said there is nothing left to try. I have also a very good GP whom I visit regularly.
Bob
Posted by Brazilnut on June 30, 2007, at 21:27:49
In reply to Re: Jim and Tired of Panic sugar cravings, posted by jimbobwe64 on April 17, 2007, at 22:32:30
Hi everybody!Yesterday was my 10th day off mirtazapine, after almost 4 years taking it. Mirtazapine was just the last on a list of 20+ other strong medicines I have been taking the last 10 years, so these are the first 10 clean days of the past decade. I have been longing for these days for 2 years, but now they are just hell. Never worse than now.
Every morning I wake up between 4pm and 7pm with pressure in my chest, heat in my throat, difficulty to breath, occasionally palpitations. The thing in the throat slowly becomes an acute pain, which migrates also to the head. In a few hours the pain dissipates, giving place to heavy abdominal cramp, burning chest and throat and arms and legs, dizziness, depression, extreme anxiety... All the morning I am not able to work, due to the lack of concentration and anxiety. Usually I get a little better slowly, just to go to bed and wait for the next attack.
My question is whether anyone out there experienced something like this in relation to mirtazapine withdrawal. Or would it be rather a consequence of that long list (Klonopin, Stilnox, Efexor, Trileptal, Welbutrin, Tryptanol, Topamax, Risperdal…)?
Thanks for any information.
Bob
Posted by Maritza on July 1, 2007, at 23:30:46
In reply to Mirtazapine: 10 days, 10 years – a question, posted by Brazilnut on June 30, 2007, at 21:27:49
Hi Bob,
I have been on Remeron for about 6months. I have cut back from 30mg to 15mg, then to 7.5mg with 10mg of Celexa added in the am. My doctor added this to help me with the past reduction (down to 7.5mg) I tried to stop taking Remeron and still continued the Celexa about 3 weeks ago. After about 4 days I began feeling the symptoms you described. I became very tired and depressed. Then I developed abdominal cramps and the runs. This was followed by anxiety and heart palpitations along with chest pain. I took my 7.5mg dose after about 5hrs of this, and felt better within a half an hour. My doctor told me I need to stay on it for a year. He said that there are cycles to the medication and right now I am in the remission cycle. He said the next cycle is the recovery cycle where my brain should begin to manufacture its own seretonin in response to an increasing tolerance to the remeron. He said this takes time. The recovery phase should begin soon according to him. He said I could decrease my dose after being in this phase for a couple of months. I understand you were taking a very small dose for a while. I wish I could tell you what to do but I am very frustrated by this situation myself. I was satisfied with my doctors explanation but it came after months of insisting that I wanted to come off these meds. What has your doctor told you? How long have you been off of the other meds? How long were you on the last dose and what was it? I know it takes a while for your brain to adjust to each new dose. My doctor added the Celexa with my last reduction because he said it would be easier to come off of this. My pharmacist agreed with this. My doctor also said there isn't any withdrawl from Remeron.
Sometimes I feel there's a conspiracy and I'm not Schizophrenic (LOL)! Seriously, though, I worry about these withdrawl symptoms and fear they could be dangerous to my heart. I am seeing a Cardiologist this week because of the palpatations and the fact that this drug increased my cholesterol to 241 from 170 in 2months! I would also like to get the Cardiologist's opinion on withdrawing from Remeron. I read in one of these Blogs that a doctor prescribed a blood pressure med to protect the heart from increased adrenaline during withdrawl. My phsychiatrist told me Remeron is not dangerous to the heart, but he also said there aren't any withdrawl symptoms. Either he doesn't know what he's talking about or he's just plain lying to me! Anyway, I wish you the best of luck. Prayer has helped me through all of this greatly and I pray that my doctor can advice me properly. I'll pray for you. Let me know when you start feeling better. Maybe go to a medical doctor to discuss your symptoms and make sure your body is adjusting properly. I'll let you know what the Cardiologist tells me. I've also found that Magnesium supplements and potassium from juices like prune juice help to relax your nervous system. Remember that God gave you a sound mind and He is all powerful. When the symptoms come on release them to God and know that He can and will heal you. God Bless!
Maritza
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