![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 322 to 346 of 488. Go back in thread:
Posted by LIFE on August 20, 2006, at 15:16:25
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by jimbobwe64 on August 19, 2006, at 4:51:23
Dear Tired of Panic, Point blank...There is no substitute for chocolate. Trust me. I love chocolate. I was allergic as a child. I would drink chocolate milk at school and break out with a terrible rash that covered my thighs. The constant scratching gave me away to my mother. I continued to consume chocolate in any form until my body became immune to its affects. There is this stuff called carob, but it is to chocolate connoisseurs what turkey bacon is to a pork lover, it just don't taste the same. The only thing that works for me when I fall off the choco-train is to counteract the affects of the caffeine with a pinch of valerian root. Half teaspoon of Valerian root in your coffee will eliminate the shakes caused by the caffeine. A pinch between the cheek and jaw will have the same affect after consuming chocolate. It will help with counteracting the caffeine, but I have no answer for counteracting the caloric factor. And I apologize, I know what happens during withdrawal from Remeron as it pertains to depression, but I don't have panic attacks so I hesitate offering any advice because, from reading other entries, I think withdrawal symptoms might be a little more involved than I would understand. However, your ability and willingness to make entries proves that you are maintaining good control of your body and mind thus far without meds, congrats! Life
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 21, 2006, at 2:17:53
In reply to Tired of Panic caffeine consumption, posted by LIFE on August 20, 2006, at 15:16:25
Life, thank you.
However, even though I don't take medication that does not mean my quality of life is good. I still suffer days where I cannot do much because I either am too disoriented, tired, eyes blurred over, etc. Somedays just lack motivation, but few. I feel good about 5-10 days a month, the rest of the time I am fighting with it. Luckily I have a job that I enjoy, regardless if it makes a lot of money or not and is very stressful, I enjoy it but sooner or later I think things are going to change if money doesn' start rolling in soon.
As for Chocolate, I'm in trouble then... How long is this caffeine going to stay in my system and how long is the withdrawl going to take? I go in cycles, I can go a month without eating chocolate but then I come back with avengents and eat everything in site.
I am not sure if I can get Valverian root where I am, but I will look for it.
> Dear Tired of Panic, Point blank...There is no substitute for chocolate. Trust me. I love chocolate. I was allergic as a child. I would drink chocolate milk at school and break out with a terrible rash that covered my thighs. The constant scratching gave me away to my mother. I continued to consume chocolate in any form until my body became immune to its affects. There is this stuff called carob, but it is to chocolate connoisseurs what turkey bacon is to a pork lover, it just don't taste the same. The only thing that works for me when I fall off the choco-train is to counteract the affects of the caffeine with a pinch of valerian root. Half teaspoon of Valerian root in your coffee will eliminate the shakes caused by the caffeine. A pinch between the cheek and jaw will have the same affect after consuming chocolate. It will help with counteracting the caffeine, but I have no answer for counteracting the caloric factor. And I apologize, I know what happens during withdrawal from Remeron as it pertains to depression, but I don't have panic attacks so I hesitate offering any advice because, from reading other entries, I think withdrawal symptoms might be a little more involved than I would understand. However, your ability and willingness to make entries proves that you are maintaining good control of your body and mind thus far without meds, congrats! Life
Posted by jimbobwe64 on August 21, 2006, at 19:19:45
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by tiredofpanic on August 19, 2006, at 6:54:43
Hey, Tired.
Heh, heh, sorry to use the scare tactics like that on ya! And I won't go on too much more about that because I think you definitely get my point, lol.
But, I will say that it seems like you're keeping a good sense of humour about everything and that is definitely a good sign.
With everything that's going on, especially the irritability that you've spoken about, it's certainly hard to do that.
Fits of rage describes to a "tee" what I went through while on all three anti-depressants that I was on (which I was on for a total of 10 years). Just think of what a great combination that the rage made with my military career, lol.
And you also get a bit of that with the withdrawal, too.
Now that I've been off for 38 days now, the rage is totally gone, but, I still have some of the sadness and headaches.
Hopefully for you, like you've said, because you were only on the Remeron for a couple of weeks that your body hasn't time to totally acclimatize to it. I think that you likely have a much better chance of not having severe withdrawal symptoms for that reason. I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya in any regard.
TC for now.
Jim
> Well crap then, I need to find something that tastes like chocolate then because Ic an't stop that... Or maybe I should take up coffee drinking... HAHAHAA
>
> Ok well. you made your point, now I have to determine what course of action I need to take.. What a pain in the butt.
>
> As for the withdrawl symptoms, well, I have already experienced some of that, and have passed it off as anxiety, so... anyway.... I was very irritable, even fits of rage, while on Remeron, so... it can't get much worse than it already was..
>
> Thanks for the answers.
Posted by jimbobwe64 on August 21, 2006, at 19:39:33
In reply to Tired of Panic caffeine consumption, posted by LIFE on August 20, 2006, at 15:16:25
Hey, Life. That's really interesting about the valerian root. How did you find out about all this stuff, did you find out about it through a naturopath? Just wondering. And do you know if it or anything like it can counteract any other foodstuff that makes the panic/depression worse?
Jimmy Bob.
> Dear Tired of Panic, Point blank...There is no substitute for chocolate. Trust me. I love chocolate. I was allergic as a child. I would drink chocolate milk at school and break out with a terrible rash that covered my thighs. The constant scratching gave me away to my mother. I continued to consume chocolate in any form until my body became immune to its affects. There is this stuff called carob, but it is to chocolate connoisseurs what turkey bacon is to a pork lover, it just don't taste the same. The only thing that works for me when I fall off the choco-train is to counteract the affects of the caffeine with a pinch of valerian root. Half teaspoon of Valerian root in your coffee will eliminate the shakes caused by the caffeine. A pinch between the cheek and jaw will have the same affect after consuming chocolate. It will help with counteracting the caffeine, but I have no answer for counteracting the caloric factor. And I apologize, I know what happens during withdrawal from Remeron as it pertains to depression, but I don't have panic attacks so I hesitate offering any advice because, from reading other entries, I think withdrawal symptoms might be a little more involved than I would understand. However, your ability and willingness to make entries proves that you are maintaining good control of your body and mind thus far without meds, congrats! Life
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 21, 2006, at 21:14:17
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by jimbobwe64 on August 21, 2006, at 19:19:45
Hi Jim,,
You know this community is very good in supporting each other. I paid US$5 on antoher website last year or longer to have a doc tell me how to taper Xanax correctly, and his reply was two sentences and you couldnt ask another question unless you paid another $5. How ridiculous is that. I am very happy that I found this site and kudos to the maker!
Anyway, yes I try to be humourous otherwise I would go nuts, but there are times I just want to pack it in as I get tired of not sleeping well, always waking up with a fast heart beat, numbness in my hands, which I suppose could be do to other conditions like not exercising.. but anyway...
Oh yeah fits of rage in the miltary probably went over real well! ha ha, but that's funny!
As for the withdrawl symptoms, as I said I am not sure I would recognize them anyway as pretty much everyday for the last 2 months I have felt like crap, we'll see though..
> Hey, Tired.
>
> Heh, heh, sorry to use the scare tactics like that on ya! And I won't go on too much more about that because I think you definitely get my point, lol.
>
> But, I will say that it seems like you're keeping a good sense of humour about everything and that is definitely a good sign.
>
> With everything that's going on, especially the irritability that you've spoken about, it's certainly hard to do that.
>
> Fits of rage describes to a "tee" what I went through while on all three anti-depressants that I was on (which I was on for a total of 10 years). Just think of what a great combination that the rage made with my military career, lol.
>
> And you also get a bit of that with the withdrawal, too.
>
> Now that I've been off for 38 days now, the rage is totally gone, but, I still have some of the sadness and headaches.
>
> Hopefully for you, like you've said, because you were only on the Remeron for a couple of weeks that your body hasn't time to totally acclimatize to it. I think that you likely have a much better chance of not having severe withdrawal symptoms for that reason. I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya in any regard.
>
> TC for now.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> > Well crap then, I need to find something that tastes like chocolate then because Ic an't stop that... Or maybe I should take up coffee drinking... HAHAHAA
> >
> > Ok well. you made your point, now I have to determine what course of action I need to take.. What a pain in the butt.
> >
> > As for the withdrawl symptoms, well, I have already experienced some of that, and have passed it off as anxiety, so... anyway.... I was very irritable, even fits of rage, while on Remeron, so... it can't get much worse than it already was..
> >
> > Thanks for the answers.
>
>
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 22, 2006, at 13:49:43
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by tiredofpanic on August 21, 2006, at 21:14:17
Hi Jim,
I found the information about that OTC medicine for anxiety that starts with a C. It is called Clarocet http://www.clarocet.com/, maybe I need to post a message on other boards to see if anyone has tried this stuff and if it works. I found this last year, no doctor here seems to know it.
Also, a question about the caffinee issues. Generally how long would one go before starting to feel the effects of the withdrawl and also how long will it last?
Posted by LIFE on August 24, 2006, at 14:29:56
In reply to Re: Tired of Panic caffeine consumption, posted by tiredofpanic on August 21, 2006, at 2:17:53
Hey there guys, sorry I have been absent from our discussions for a minute, I needed to travel to check on my parents. In answer to your question, Jim, I consult with a lot of natural healers in my area and am a non-practicing massage therapist(during a depressed period I allowed my certification to lapse by not paying my yearly fees, How stupid was that? Now I need additional classes to recertify and take the state test again. How stupid was that? Especially since I cannot afford them now), so I have known about the benefits of Valerian root for quite some time. I also brew it regularly in my coffee and I still eat chocolate so I have to neutralize the caffeine or it overrides the affect of my meds. I get the caffeine shakes within minutes of consuming coffee that has not been infused with Valerian. And, like you, Tired of Panic, Snickers bars are a favorite of my entire family, I just had about ten of those bite-sized snack ones in the gold wrappers at my mother's house. She keeps them in the candy dish. If you cannot find Valerian root locally, log onto www.viable-herbal.com or search Viable Herbal Solutions-gives you detailed descriptions of herbs and their uses as well as contraindications, and you can order on line. They carry bulk herbs, my favorite because I have greater control over how I want to use the herbs ( brewing as teas, adding them to soups or cooking with them) In my coffee maker, I add directly to the glass pot 1 tablespoon of Valerian root while adding coffee grounds through the filtration system as usual, once the coffee is brewed I add two packs of powdered cocoa mix and four tablespoons of nondairy coffee creamer. I let the brew steep for about thirty minutes because Valerian in bulk form looks like large granules of sand and are quite hard so they need a chance to soften. I remove the pot , sweeten to taste with white stevia or sugar, I pre-measure into plastic cups and freeze. With the Valerian brewed directly into the coffee I don't feel the affects of the caffeine at all. When I eat as much chocolate as I have today, I need to go to the kitchen soon and make a cup of Chamomile and Valerian tea or I will be sugar rushing later. I've also had chocolate chip cookies, a bowl of Frosted Flakes and regular bottled tea. See, I have a hard time denying myself the simple pleasures of sugar and caffeine, so I do my best to neutralize the negative effects. My parents swear they are too old and life is too short not to enjoy these things, when in Rome... According to the Vegans I know, meat, sugar, and caffeine are contributors to my depression. I tried going vegan but I felt even more depressed and seriously deprived. So I antidote using herbs. I'm still trying to find an herbal combination strong enough to combat the bouts of sadness and hopelessness I suffered with prior to being prescribed the combo of Wellbutrin and Remeron. I was sad to the point of non-function, and I hated my job. However I see we have in common the need for money to come in at a slightly higher rate because financial worries do contribute greatly to my suffering when not medicated. That's why I fear getting off my meds at this time. I just can't afford to sleep for days or be awake nights. My cats and I are living on the poverty line and momma has to be fully functional right now if we are to survive, my parents are getting on in age and should be enjoying retirement rather than trying to siphon funds to help me. When I have to withdraw or cleanse from the meds I immediately lose sleep and fall into obsessive worry. I don't have headaches, but my thinking becomes extremely chaotic, I have trouble making the simplest decisions. The herbs that I use help the physical symtoms, headaches, bodyaches, tightness in the shoulders, and my skin is lovely, but I have not found the right combination to help with the mental symptoms, the obsessive worry over finances, extreme disorganization of thoughts, inability to make the simplest life decisions, and the dark feelings of hopelessness and loss of self-worth, but I am still looking. I research herbs and try different combinations, but I have not found the magic one yet. I have not heard of the anti- depressant you mentioned either, is it herbal or prescribed? I'm going to ask around about it, I'll let you know what I find out. I know you are not depression free but your spirits are good, keep fighting and as you struggle on those bad days at least you know we understand you are not just being lazy and are doing your best to have a pleasant and productive day. Life
Posted by LIFE on August 24, 2006, at 14:39:32
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by tiredofpanic on August 22, 2006, at 13:49:43
Duh... you did enter OTC, over the counter, thanks, I am going to the Clarocet website as soon as I counteract my sugar overdose! I may act as a guinnea-pig if it won't kill me with the meds I already have in my system. I'm excited to know there is something over the counter! Good going, Jim, and T-o-P! I'll let you know if I try it how it feels! Life
Posted by LIFE on August 24, 2006, at 14:52:59
In reply to Re: Tired of Panic caffeine consumption, posted by tiredofpanic on August 21, 2006, at 2:17:53
My curiosity got the better of me, I checked the ingredients profile of Clarocet and it looks pretty herbal to me, containing Valerian , Chamomile, and Hops( I tried as an isolated herb), as soon as I garner the funds and estimate which formula would be right for me I'm more than positive I will be trying the product, the company has combined the herbs for me. Thanks again Jim and T-o-P! I am soooo excited having recognized its herbal components, especially since I am familiar with many of them! Oh, happy, day!!!!! Life
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 24, 2006, at 14:55:54
In reply to Tired of Panic Clarocet, posted by LIFE on August 24, 2006, at 14:39:32
Hi Life,
I believe Clarocet is OTC, at least from their website it sure as heck looks like you can order it. This stuff is for anxiety and panic though it looks like, but it also seems they have something, seems perfect for me as I can't sleep sometimes recently until 5-6am, for nighttime usage. The pills aren't that expensive, but if you order a years supply wow the price drops!
Life it seems like you have depression and not anxiety am I correct? I would be really interested to know what you think of these if you order them and try them and be our little guinnea pig! ha ha! ;-) I am very curious about this. I saw these gosh, its been...over a year now I think.
I will have some more questions for your later about your previous post about Valerian Root. I am in Asia now so I may be able to get this stuff from a Chinese doctor or Pharmacy, I am just not sure if it is fresh or not.
I will write more later, i want to actually try to get to bed before 4am.
Tired
> Duh... you did enter OTC, over the counter, thanks, I am going to the Clarocet website as soon as I counteract my sugar overdose! I may act as a guinnea-pig if it won't kill me with the meds I already have in my system. I'm excited to know there is something over the counter! Good going, Jim, and T-o-P! I'll let you know if I try it how it feels! Life
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 24, 2006, at 14:58:16
In reply to Clarocet, posted by LIFE on August 24, 2006, at 14:52:59
you are welcome Life. I am just glad I was able to remember the name of it FINALLY! I have also been trying to remember for several months, as I said I found it last year and then I couldn't find it again. I asked my doctor about it some time ago, but they didn't know it, and most likely even if they did they would have told me, nah you need REAL medication, so actually I am glad they didn't know it.
Anyway, as I said, I need to get my butt to bed.
Posted by LIFE on August 25, 2006, at 5:34:09
In reply to Re: Tired of Panic Clarocet, posted by tiredofpanic on August 24, 2006, at 14:55:54
I don't know the time variant in Asia, but it is 4:55 a.m. here in the U.S., Tired-o-P, I cheated and did not take my Remeron. Yep, it's that easy for me to induce insomnia! Just don't take a dose and I am up and running. I think I'll take it at 5:30 a.m. and sleep until about 10:30 a.m., ha,ha. Yes, I am what I consider a classic clinical case of pure depression, black holes are my speciality. I am definitely going to look into the Clarocet, but when I say I exist at poverty level, I mean that literally. My internet privileges are courtesy of my younger sibling. My meds are free from the state, but Clarocet is one of those things I am determined to sacrifice a few things to try it. The herbal content cannot be denied and I would be cheating myself if I didn't try it. You can get some mighty good herbs in Asia, and most root herbs really have no freshness barometer as do the leaves and flowers ( and if leaves and flowers are dried, they have a longer life than do fresh ones, like dried parsley v.s. fresh parsley) So you should be able to find some good quality Valerian in such an herbally rich culture. Have you tried acupuncture therapy during your stay in Asia? That's something else I have been curious about. Does it piss you off to have attacks while you are in such a beautiful place since our illnesses often cause us to view life from the vantage point of the illness? That's when I am the most angry and guilty, when I am trying to count my blessings and feel joy from the depths of my black hole. Get some good sleep, I am going to try to do the same. Thanks again for the Clarocet tip, even if it allows me to just reduce the amount of Remeron I require I will be eternally grateful. As soon as I am able to try it I will be happy to share its effectiveness on my depression with you and Jimbo (are you there, Jimbo? How are you progressing?) Good morning all, I will be in touch. All you believers in herbal therapy, check out that Clarocet website! See Tired of Panic entries. I don't know the level of purity of the herbs and have not finished researching the ingredients that I am not already familiar with, but I am definitely impressed that the herbs I already use are included. 5:28 a.m.! Gotta go take my drugs so I can make some art and income later today! I'm out! Life
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 25, 2006, at 5:56:39
In reply to VALERIAN / CLAROCET, posted by LIFE on August 25, 2006, at 5:34:09
Well, I am also considering to buy a small quantity of the clarocet to give it a try. But I don't really expect any results, I just take it and see how it goes.
Indeed I have looked at teh website again and they do have stuff for depression as well.
I live in northern Asia, not such a beautiful place as I am not on the beach, ha ha, and I think this is partly what is feeding the anxiety is the fact that even though I have lived here for years I can't get used to or accept some of the stuff that goes on.
As for accupuncture, I tried it once for some back pain. It helped, but I felt really tired and really dizzy for about 3-5 days afterwords. I decided that was enough. However, for panic, I have not thought about it. But with the variety of herbs and some of them that you mentioned, I am goign to get a translation and see if I can fidn them, if I can find them locally, boy will it be much cheaper and no importing issues.
Cheers, take your Remeron and get some sleep.
Posted by LIFE on August 26, 2006, at 1:04:16
In reply to Re: VALERIAN / CLAROCET, posted by tiredofpanic on August 25, 2006, at 5:56:39
Hey there T-o-P, did you ever get to bed? Or, were you up early? Anyhoo, sorry to hear that on such a large continent you seem to be in a bleak place, however, if it is as bleak as you say, then it is probably very colloquial and filled with natural healers, readers, and such. Thanks for the acupuncture info. I am about to go back to the Clarocet site and compile a list the ingredients, I am off to A Moveable Feast and Whole foods tomorrow...I might be able to concoct my own formula, wouldn't that be a hoot? When you take your first dosage let me know how it makes you feel, even if it is a minute or no change at all. I talked to my therapist today and he claims not to have heard of Clarocet either, but I am a certified ward of the state and "fersure" their lab rat. I also asked about panic and anxiety symptoms. He suspects that I have anxiety attacks when I am in the throes of depression in the form of agoraphobia, since I am very reluctant to go out of the house when I am down. But, I just hate being around people when I am having an episode and I sweat a little because I am aware of my short-term memory problems when I am out there and vulnerable. I don't recall any hyperventilating or heart palpitations or headaches, just an acute awareness that I am out there amongst the populace when I would rather be hiding at home, so that still does not sound a lot like a real panic attack to me, once I can force myself to get dressed and am out I'm usually o.k. What does a real panic or anxiety attack look or feel like? Is it a public meltdown? How can I be supportive when someone is having an attack? You know, what can I do to perhaps ease the tension for them? Jim? Still haven't heard how you are doing out there. Haven't heard from any of the ladies trying to kick Remeron lately either! Tired-o-P, wish me luck on my quest to outdo Clarocet. I will let you know what I find after I have cooked up a home brew if that is indeed possible. Nighty-night all, happy withdrawal! Life
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 26, 2006, at 3:15:38
In reply to Clarocet - panic attacks vs. depression, posted by LIFE on August 26, 2006, at 1:04:16
Hi Life,
I actually got to bed around midnight last night for a change after staying up nearly 36 hours to try to reset my clock, I was tired and I slept, for about five hours that is. I think the docs really messed me up with all their trial and errros, now I need to nap in the afternoon sometimes twice. It's getting to be a royal pain in the you know what.
A panic attack:
rapid heart beat, feelings of impending doom, its like you are being taken out of your body and are really disconnected, some times shaking, some times severe shaking can occur, very cold, heart attack symptoms, stroke symptoms, rapid breathing, difficult breathing, numbness, blured eyes, feelings that you will die, disoriented, palpatations, arithmia, blood pressure issues, there are a few more. the first time I had a panic attack I thought I was having a heart attack, went to the hospital, they gave me a seditive IV, did some blood tests and came back to tell me I was hyperventalating and should see someone in their pyschiatric department, when the doc said that I damn near disconnected myself from teh IV and walked out of the hospital thinking, hyperventalation? ok whatever, this is easy to control and get over. Boy was I wrong. and I think talking to my ADD doc was the stupidest thing I could have done because they put me on Xanax, I think they should have said, ok, you had a panic attack, so what, we'll monitor it for a few months and SEE what happens, just dont worry about anything, you're not going to die, yadda yadda yadda and and 28340% of people of this, yadda yadda yadda, have a nice day. But Nooooooooooooooooooooo they had to put me on the worse one at the very begnning which made me sooooooooooooooo scared it was unbelivable. Doctors really need to use caution, one attack does not mean you are doomed for life or need medication.
Good luck on cococting your own medication, if you can come up with something strong, better, that works faster and more effiecent let me know. I found out it will cost me about $100 to get three bottles to me, so I am considering now if I really want to order or not. If I can find Valerian root here I may try that first. Though Clarocet has some additional benefits especially for sleeping, which are needed! I just hope I can keep up what happend last night!
Life, or anyone else, do you ever wake up in the morning with a fast heart beat or chest pain of any kind? This happens to me quite a bit. I don't have any other health problems...
And yes a panic attack in public could be a meltdown or maybe not, I try to control them too much, which is bad, so I have never passed out or fell over from one, but I think it may be better to just let them happen rather than to stop them as you are suppressing a lot of stuff that wants to come out.
Anyway thats enough for today. Jim where are you? Did you climb into a hole or go on vacation? Next time take me with you! :-)
ToP
Posted by LIFE on August 27, 2006, at 22:22:12
In reply to Re: Clarocet - panic attacks vs. depression, posted by tiredofpanic on August 26, 2006, at 3:15:38
Hey there Tired-o'Panic, That is some description. I think I would surely perish under the pressure of such severe physical symptoms. Did Remeron help at all under such severe circumstances? It is very effective for depression, but, panic attacks, at least from your description, seem to require something more than induced sleep and clarity of thought. Is that why you have chosen not to take it any longer? When was your first attack? I know as a preteen and during high school I suffered from dysthemia-precursor to full blown depression-I experienced bouts of unexplained sadness and crying jags. Do you have triggers or does an attack just come upon you? I didn't know before, but, my previous career was a trigger, attempts to perform or look perfect are triggers. I cannot imagine what you all feel when these attacks happen, I thought feeling suicidal was bad, to actually physically be at death's door has got to be horrifying. I went on my sojourn to find the ingredients in Clarocet, but they've got me at the mushrooms and some of the enzymes. I have not been to many of the Asian herbologists in my area yet, so, I hope it is simply a matter of checking some of the more cultural herb suppliers. I'll keep you all updated. Still haven't heard from you Jimbo, spin a thread and let us know if everything is alright with you. Have you resumed medication? Or, are you still hanging with your yoga poses and strong will? I hope so. We are thinking about you and miss your tips for managing our ills. Life
Posted by Jimbobwe64 on August 27, 2006, at 23:52:26
In reply to Description of Panic Attack, posted by LIFE on August 27, 2006, at 22:22:12
Hey, ladies. I'm still here. Although, that's a figure of speech, as I'm actually in the process of a long move halfway across the country. Yes, nice and stressful time to be weaning off an anti-depressant, don't you think? lol. So, I'm actually E-Mailing from a hotel room on my way. I just retired from the military and am on my way to my last move.
So, right now, I'm a little stressed, and in addition the effects of the withdrawal are still a happenin'. Although the last three days were really good, today was pretty much of a downer. But, I think that I'm still on the right road and am still free of Remeron.
That "Clarocet" sounds like an interesting one. I actually saw that one while browsing online a long, long time ago, but that was before I started getting serious about getting healthy.
I'd love to hear how it goes for you.
And in answer to what a panic attack is like. I can most certainly tell you. The symptoms are as follows:
Severe Headaches, feelings of paranoia, face flushed (embarrassed), sense of reality not there (kind of like seeing the world in only 2 dimensions, very bizarre), walls closing in on you, heart palpitating, dizzy spells and the most common term I've heard - "Brain Fog". I think there are other symptoms, but those are the ones that come to mind. I've had severe panic attacks at times, so I can talk from experience, unfortunately. The good thing is that I haven't had any of these with my withdrawals from Remeron, so, I got a feeling I'm on the right track. But, I've been dealing with this crap for so long, I'm kinda cynical, lol.
Anyhow, sorry for not chatting in a while, but, I think you'll understand.
Ciao for now. Hope the info helps and I look forward to chatting with you in several days.
Jimbob
> Hey there Tired-o'Panic, That is some description. I think I would surely perish under the pressure of such severe physical symptoms. Did Remeron help at all under such severe circumstances? It is very effective for depression, but, panic attacks, at least from your description, seem to require something more than induced sleep and clarity of thought. Is that why you have chosen not to take it any longer? When was your first attack? I know as a preteen and during high school I suffered from dysthemia-precursor to full blown depression-I experienced bouts of unexplained sadness and crying jags. Do you have triggers or does an attack just come upon you? I didn't know before, but, my previous career was a trigger, attempts to perform or look perfect are triggers. I cannot imagine what you all feel when these attacks happen, I thought feeling suicidal was bad, to actually physically be at death's door has got to be horrifying. I went on my sojourn to find the ingredients in Clarocet, but they've got me at the mushrooms and some of the enzymes. I have not been to many of the Asian herbologists in my area yet, so, I hope it is simply a matter of checking some of the more cultural herb suppliers. I'll keep you all updated. Still haven't heard from you Jimbo, spin a thread and let us know if everything is alright with you. Have you resumed medication? Or, are you still hanging with your yoga poses and strong will? I hope so. We are thinking about you and miss your tips for managing our ills. Life
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 29, 2006, at 11:02:00
In reply to Description of Panic Attack, posted by LIFE on August 27, 2006, at 22:22:12
Hello Life and Jimbo,
Sorry it's been a few days since writing, just have not been in the mood.
Remeron only helped the first day I took it, I never got used to it so I was miserable everyday of that two weeks I did take it. As I said now I am in CBT and actually I can already see that it is going to be very useless but probably long term. Actually on Remeron I was sleeping ok in the very beginning and then I wasn't, but I would be tired but couldn't sleep.
Good luck with concocting something LIFE, I will be very interested to see what you come up with. I am going to check around and see what I can find at the local herbal pharmacies. Just not sure how pure it will be.
I have now been off Remeron since I think the 14th of August. I think that was the day I took the last one. So it has now been 15 days, I do not think any withdrawl symtoms will come, or they already did and past! Thanks fully!
Jimbo? Ladies?! How dare you! I oughta... oughta... :P ha! I'm not a lady?! At least the last time I checked!!! :P ha ha ha
VERY VERY good discription of what a panic attack is, much better than mine!
Be careful and don't stress out too much from your moving, just take it easy.
Laters
ToP
Posted by Holly VanBen on August 31, 2006, at 15:07:18
In reply to Re: Description of Panic Attack, posted by tiredofpanic on August 29, 2006, at 11:02:00
HI all,
Thank you for posting the info on panic attacks. I am on day 23 of detox from opiates and other nasty stuff, Xanax, Ativan and the like. I have been able to stop taking everything including withdrawal meds but have been unable to stop one stinking Ambien at night. My sysmptoms are exactly that of a panic attack and I know it. I have tried to live through it but have not been able to make it without crashing hard. I cannot afford to crash as it means I will end up in the hospital which is very bad. I am hoping these are just still withdrawal symptoms hanging in there and hope I will be able to stop the Ambien soon. I don't like this at all though, but who like withdrawals anyway.
Thanks again,
Holly
Posted by jimbobwe64 on August 31, 2006, at 21:52:38
In reply to Re: Description of Panic Attack, posted by Holly VanBen on August 31, 2006, at 15:07:18
Hey, Holly. No problem about the description, that's what we're all here for, Right ToP, LIFE? Opiates, wow, it sounds like you've got a hard road, too. I honestly don't know anything about withdrawals from any of those, not even Ambien, but, if you want support, that's what we're all here for.
So, what kind of symptoms have you been going through? And I do hope things get better for you.Keep in touch,
Jim
> HI all,
> Thank you for posting the info on panic attacks. I am on day 23 of detox from opiates and other nasty stuff, Xanax, Ativan and the like. I have been able to stop taking everything including withdrawal meds but have been unable to stop one stinking Ambien at night. My sysmptoms are exactly that of a panic attack and I know it. I have tried to live through it but have not been able to make it without crashing hard. I cannot afford to crash as it means I will end up in the hospital which is very bad. I am hoping these are just still withdrawal symptoms hanging in there and hope I will be able to stop the Ambien soon. I don't like this at all though, but who like withdrawals anyway.
> Thanks again,
> Holly
Posted by jimbobwe64 on August 31, 2006, at 22:04:32
In reply to Re: Description of Panic Attack, posted by tiredofpanic on August 29, 2006, at 11:02:00
Hey, ToP. Heh, heh, I just knew that you were unlady like, lol. Just kidding.
Anyhow, I'm really glad to hear that your symptoms are minimal. You obviously weren't on the meds long enough for them to be of any consequence, thank god. Good for you.
And again, thanks much for your concern, I'm ready for the physical part of the move starting on Monday. It will be good to get it over with. And the good thing about my move is I've lived here before for about 10 years, so, I'm getting reunited with a lot of old and good friends, and some who understand what I'm going through with this blasted illness. It's still stressful, just the same, though. So far, in the short time that I've been talking to people on here, I've gotten more out of it than most of the time that I've spent with a lot of my friends.
Keep up the good work, k. And I hope that everything continues to work well with you. U2, LIFE.
Talk to you soon.
Jim
> Hello Life and Jimbo,
>
> Sorry it's been a few days since writing, just have not been in the mood.
>
> Remeron only helped the first day I took it, I never got used to it so I was miserable everyday of that two weeks I did take it. As I said now I am in CBT and actually I can already see that it is going to be very useless but probably long term. Actually on Remeron I was sleeping ok in the very beginning and then I wasn't, but I would be tired but couldn't sleep.
>
> Good luck with concocting something LIFE, I will be very interested to see what you come up with. I am going to check around and see what I can find at the local herbal pharmacies. Just not sure how pure it will be.
>
> I have now been off Remeron since I think the 14th of August. I think that was the day I took the last one. So it has now been 15 days, I do not think any withdrawl symtoms will come, or they already did and past! Thanks fully!
>
> Jimbo? Ladies?! How dare you! I oughta... oughta... :P ha! I'm not a lady?! At least the last time I checked!!! :P ha ha ha
>
> VERY VERY good discription of what a panic attack is, much better than mine!
>
> Be careful and don't stress out too much from your moving, just take it easy.
>
> Laters
>
> ToP
>
>
Posted by tiredofpanic on September 1, 2006, at 0:03:29
In reply to Re: Description of Panic Attack, posted by jimbobwe64 on August 31, 2006, at 22:04:32
Hi Holly and Jim,
Holly, indeed that is what all of us are here for, and thank God for this forum!
What were you on Opiates for? I am not sure about the withdrawl from these, but I suspect that panic could be a withdrawl symptom, that or you are too nervous getting off the medication, maybe there is another side effect you are dreading perhaps? If you can check with your doctor and if not check with the pharmacy you got the drugs from. I've found if you talk to them nicely they may answer your questions, as they know more about the drugs than the doctors do, but are not doctors so are not able to answer some questions, but you can try, just be nice.
Jimbo, good to hear from you! lol! Glad you weren't trying to pick me up or something, you would have gotten a surprise boy! ha ha.
I now have a Holitor monitor I am going to wear at night for about 3-4 nights, this is going back to that study I mentioned a few weeks ago. We;ll see waht they can get out of it. I was wrong it is not a sleep monitor like I was hoping for, it is only a heart monitor, but they know based on the heart rythms when you are in rem sleep or awake, etc. We'll see what happens. I've been very shakey lately and unable to sleep. and of course now that I have the monitor I slept early and actually slept through the night without getting up for hours on end. I woke up sevearl times, but thats ok.
Glad you are doing well. Glad you can reunite with your friends that will really help you, and especially those who have had problems before. Glad you are feeling happier! That is a good sign.
Cheers
Posted by Holly VanBen on September 1, 2006, at 13:00:46
In reply to Re: Description of Panic Attack, posted by jimbobwe64 on August 31, 2006, at 21:52:38
> Hey, Holly. No problem about the description, that's what we're all here for, Right ToP, LIFE? Opiates, wow, it sounds like you've got a hard road, too. I honestly don't know anything about withdrawals from any of those, not even Ambien, but, if you want support, that's what we're all here for.
> So, what kind of symptoms have you been going through? And I do hope things get better for you.
>
> Keep in touch,
>
> Jim
>
>
> > HI all,
> > Thank you for posting the info on panic attacks. I am on day 23 of detox from opiates and other nasty stuff, Xanax, Ativan and the like. I have been able to stop taking everything including withdrawal meds but have been unable to stop one stinking Ambien at night. My sysmptoms are exactly that of a panic attack and I know it. I have tried to live through it but have not been able to make it without crashing hard. I cannot afford to crash as it means I will end up in the hospital which is very bad. I am hoping these are just still withdrawal symptoms hanging in there and hope I will be able to stop the Ambien soon. I don't like this at all though, but who like withdrawals anyway.
> > Thanks again,
> > Holly
>
>Hi Jim,
Thank you for the response. Yes opiate and Narcotic withdrawal, nasty nasty stuff. I don't have the energy to do this again. Anyway speaking of current symptoms. I am still unsure if I am having panic attacks at night or leftover severe withdrawal symptoms. After last night I am leaning more towards, still having withdrawals. I wasn't sure since it was mainly happening at night, but after a few nights I think it is more clearly withdrawls. The symptoms are sever tightness in the chest like I can't breathe but I can. Chest pain, nausea, dizziness and that horrible feeling of wanting to come out of my skin. These are all mild compared to a week ago on a constant basis with withdrawals, but I just stopped taking Vistaril about 6 days ago, which was prescribed to help with the withdrawals and anxiety from them. I know when you go through opiate withdrawals the body produces an excess of adrenaline to cope which causes severe anxiety, but I thought since it was better during the day that I was over that. I think that was wishful thinking, so my bodies still trying to get rid of the nasty stuff and hopefully soon it will calm down and I will be able to stop taking Ambien at night and be done with all drugs for good. :-)
Thank You again and I look forward to speaking with you soon.
Holly
Posted by Holly VanBen on September 1, 2006, at 13:10:36
In reply to Re: Description of Panic Attack, posted by tiredofpanic on September 1, 2006, at 0:03:29
> Hi Holly and Jim,
>
> Holly, indeed that is what all of us are here for, and thank God for this forum!
>
> What were you on Opiates for? I am not sure about the withdrawl from these, but I suspect that panic could be a withdrawl symptom, that or you are too nervous getting off the medication, maybe there is another side effect you are dreading perhaps? If you can check with your doctor and if not check with the pharmacy you got the drugs from. I've found if you talk to them nicely they may answer your questions, as they know more about the drugs than the doctors do, but are not doctors so are not able to answer some questions, but you can try, just be nice.
>
> Jimbo, good to hear from you! lol! Glad you weren't trying to pick me up or something, you would have gotten a surprise boy! ha ha.
>
> I now have a Holitor monitor I am going to wear at night for about 3-4 nights, this is going back to that study I mentioned a few weeks ago. We;ll see waht they can get out of it. I was wrong it is not a sleep monitor like I was hoping for, it is only a heart monitor, but they know based on the heart rythms when you are in rem sleep or awake, etc. We'll see what happens. I've been very shakey lately and unable to sleep. and of course now that I have the monitor I slept early and actually slept through the night without getting up for hours on end. I woke up sevearl times, but thats ok.
>
> Glad you are doing well. Glad you can reunite with your friends that will really help you, and especially those who have had problems before. Glad you are feeling happier! That is a good sign.
>
> CheersThank you for your response. I responded to Jim before reading yours and yes I do think it is withdrawal symptoms still acting up, it just took me a few days to figure it out. I keep hoping they will miraculously stop, but hey 24 days and its much better so no complaining from me. Well maybe a little LOL.
I have worn that halter thing before and really hope it shows something for you. Are they making you push that bloody button every time you feel just about anything? I swear that button made me paranoid so I pushed it all the time. LOL Its not the most comfortable thing either, but I really hope it shows something minor and fixable. I always approach any of these tests with hope they will find something that they can say "Oh hey that's what was causing ALL these problems, we can fix that easy with no consequences and make you good as new". Probably not very realsitic and hasn't happened yet, but I figure it has to happen to people all the time so this time I hope it is you.
Keep me posted.
Holly
Posted by LIFE on September 5, 2006, at 23:18:25
In reply to Re: Description of Panic Attack, posted by Holly VanBen on September 1, 2006, at 13:10:36
Hey Jimbo, finally! Glad to hear from you and that you are alright. ToP and I have been discussing the Clarocet that I think you mentioned to us a couple of months ago. Hey there Holly, what a coinky-dink! I was with a friend on Sunday and she mentioned not having to take Ambien since beginning to take a tea she makes from the herb Scullcap, she said she takes a cup about an hour before bedtime and says she has the most wonderful dreams! I believe her as she is dealing with a 27yr old schizophrenic son who has been in and out of group homes several times this year and has threatened on several occasions to termminate her and her younger son, they sleep with locks on their doors and she is a baggage check officer at our very large airport. So if it works for her then maybe it will work for you too. She said the Ambien left her feeling out of sorts the next day. I purchased some Skullcap myself, but since I still take Remeron every night I am not a good measure for its effects on sleep and dreams, I can tell you that it successfully lowered my blood pressure which was a couple of points higher than normal due to stress from worrying about my parents and great aunt(who seems destined to be stricken with Alzheimers' which took my paternal grandmother). I am happy for you ,Jimbo, you sound pleased with your move and am glad you are still Remeron-free. Thank you and ToP for your descriptions of panic attacks, it helps me to understand your withdrawal symptoms better and your fears of living without meds. Sure seems to have helped Holly to have someone who knows what those attacks are about. Again, I just know about black holes. I have never had opiates either. Keep me posted folks, and I have not given up my quest to either purchase some Clarocet or make some. I am working feverishly to make some cash. I told the aforementioned mother about the Clarocet, she was excited and wanted to go to the website for both herself and her son, he is tired of medication and she thinks he might be more inclined to take the Clarocet and a reduced amount of his present medications, sorry I don't know what those are. I should see her in about a month, she is going on a much deserved vacation. And, just for the record, Jimbo and ToP, I am a girl, for real. Life
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Withdrawal | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.