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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by musky on June 19, 2006, at 1:12:18
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » musky, posted by johnnyj on June 18, 2006, at 21:12:24
I just thought I would let you gys know that IM starting a high dose B complex tommorrow.. B vitamins are especially good for nerves and mood..
Im going to try it.. couldnt hurt.. and i use to take them but at a lower dose.. For this time im trying 100mg of the complex instead of the usual 50mg.. its still safe and B vitamins are water soluble therefore not toxic..I forgot to mention that Ive been taking the Omega 3 joy (health food store).. for mood , and maybe this is helping too.. its just fish oils.. research has shown that it supports mood...successful for depressed states.
Also another important point... I read an article written by a pharmacist on the effects of certain meds on vitamins... And ANTIDEPRESSANTS were HIGH on the list for destroying vitamins in the body,,, alongside birthcontrol pills(they knock out folic acid in womeN).. So be aware.. this is why IM now going to give these BComplex a good try...Musky
Posted by cashy72 on June 19, 2006, at 5:07:23
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on June 19, 2006, at 1:12:18
Hey Musky, thats interesting about the vit supplements, and fish oil. I think im going too give that a try, as you say, it certainly won't do any harm, so any positive effect is good news..
Thanks.
Cashy72
Posted by jules354 on June 19, 2006, at 15:33:47
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on June 19, 2006, at 1:12:18
hi cashy & musky,
there are lots of good threads on the Alternative board about both vitamin B and fish oil...poss. side effects and the specific kinds of supplements to take. i've always had a good experience with vitamin B complex for PMS but i think sometimes it can make me irritable too, which i thought was just me until i read those boards.
take care
jules
Posted by jules354 on June 19, 2006, at 15:34:30
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by cashy72 on June 17, 2006, at 10:55:23
Posted by jules354 on June 19, 2006, at 15:40:02
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » musky, posted by johnnyj on June 18, 2006, at 21:12:24
it can be hard to know whether the mood dips are w/d or the depression. it's been almost 4 months since my last dose and the last couple weeks i've been struggling with some anxiety and low mood. it doesnt feel like my old depression, exactly, so i'm pretty sure it's not, but it's discouraging to not be "better" all the time. i also wake up early in the morning at least a few times a week...
i do feel though that slowly but surely, overall, i'm stabilizing and clearing the medication from my system.
i had that reaction to physical activity when i was depressed. it's really rough to deal with. i wonder if something like aquatic therapy would be comforting to you. or just hanging out in a pool once in a while, not pushing yourself but spending time there.
i hope things get better for you soon. i'm keeping you in my thoughts!
take care,
jules
Posted by johnnyj on June 19, 2006, at 17:01:31
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » johnnyj, posted by jules354 on June 19, 2006, at 15:40:02
Thank you for the uplifting thoughts Jules. I had such anxiety this whole morning but I found a website on relaxation and timed my breathing. I took like 23 breathes and it should have been around 8! The site talked about CO2 and the feelings it can cause so I used the breathing technique and it helped quiet me some. I don't feel too bad right now as the chest stuff has abated some. What a rough day yesterday and this morning.
I just want to sleep normally. I will try to fight through. Hope things are well with you and everyone else gets some relief. This drug is very bad on the body.
johnnyj
Posted by musky on June 20, 2006, at 0:57:05
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » johnnyj, posted by jules354 on June 19, 2006, at 15:40:02
>
About the exercise thing...Im told and also find that you WANT to increase the heart rate etc.. it gets those endorphins going and if you break a sweat will help get rid of the meds too.. and it kick starts the bodys own neurotransmitters .. I always feel better after I exercise.. I find it really lowers my stress levels and they stay low for a few hours aftewards.. I am confused when you say you dont want to rev up johnny... but then you know how you feel. again swimming is good as well ,,ive been adding in a swim once per week to my exercise mix....
Today more tension headaches..still waking up at stupid 4am but at least I get to sleep...and sleep not too bad before the 4am waking..
still not right in the mood... quite down most of the day... just kept going.. and then I picked up tonight.. was at a lecture and it really kept me distracted and I felt better after..
again distraction of the mind however you do it really helps with this w/d stuff.
I just wish these tension /headaches would go away.. and the restlessness still. LIke i say its been better with acupuncuncture and all the other stuff ive been doing ,but it its not all gone by a long shot... I guess we just have to wait it out. I will see how these B vitamins go.. I will give it afew weeks before judging..
Take care allmusky
it can be hard to know whether the mood dips are w/d or the depression. it's been almost 4 months since my last dose and the last couple weeks i've been struggling with some anxiety and low mood. it doesnt feel like my old depression, exactly, so i'm pretty sure it's not, but it's discouraging to not be "better" all the time. i also wake up early in the morning at least a few times a week...
>
> i do feel though that slowly but surely, overall, i'm stabilizing and clearing the medication from my system.
>
> i had that reaction to physical activity when i was depressed. it's really rough to deal with. i wonder if something like aquatic therapy would be comforting to you. or just hanging out in a pool once in a while, not pushing yourself but spending time there.
>
> i hope things get better for you soon. i'm keeping you in my thoughts!
>
> take care,
> jules
Posted by johnnyj on June 20, 2006, at 8:45:33
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on June 20, 2006, at 0:57:05
Hi Musky,
For me, exercise has been very difficult the last few years. Actually, it has made me feel worse, messed up my sleep, etc. I have tried every type of excerise and different times during the day. My doctor thinks the meds might have been affecting me somehow. That is why I need to stabilize before embarking on a new regime. I believe that for me, charging the body when it is trying to adjust is not wise. I am trying to right the ship chemically speaking so I don't want lactic acid, and what else affecting me until my body is able to handle it better. If it makes you feel good then by all means do it.
As far as depersonalization it is when I feel kind of outside my body. I just don't feel "me". It happens when I am spacey the most. I almost get this feeling like I am not connected. It is very scary and I think it is kind of related to anxiety too.
I slept better last night. I just curled up on the floor and my wife woke me up later. I slept somewhat better until 5 or so. Sunday and Monday were bad though
Hope everyone is better.
johnnyj
Posted by johnnyj on June 20, 2006, at 8:47:14
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on June 20, 2006, at 0:57:05
Posted by musky on June 21, 2006, at 0:38:25
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » musky, posted by johnnyj on June 20, 2006, at 8:45:33
>Hello johnnyj:
Glad to hear you slept better last night.. one day at a time..
yes this depersonilization you talk about sounds like what I have been getting... I would always get it while tapering and now again .. some days I do , other days I dont... its wierd.. today I just felt numb and down.. and not really connected.. like you say.. Ive also heard it can be from anxiety or w/d or the anxiety caused by meds and w/d of themm.. All i know is that I NEVER had these feeling before meds or ever in my life until this whole episode with Remeron!!!!!Tood bad you get revved up on exercise in a negative way.. I had such bad headaches today and after I exercised it was better. later tonight i had them again..tension headaches then finally took an Advil.. seems to have subsided.. I know this is tensiion and I didnt have a problem before..Im SURE its the w/d , etc.. cause I never had tensiion headaches before like this.
I just keep trying to take one day at a time..
This is not fun stuff thats happening to us.
Damn those drugs anyways!!!keep posting.. we need support all of us.
one good thing.. I lost another pound since stopping the Remeron... yeah! so total i have lost 20lbs from the original 45 i gained on this crap//.. so another 25 to go about... Again.. NEVER had a wt problem before.. and this wt gain was more like puffy, fat, bloated type unhealthy gross wt gain... Im feeling better since ive at least lost the 20lbs of it..Musky
Musky,
>
> For me, exercise has been very difficult the last few years. Actually, it has made me feel worse, messed up my sleep, etc. I have tried every type of excerise and different times during the day. My doctor thinks the meds might have been affecting me somehow. That is why I need to stabilize before embarking on a new regime. I believe that for me, charging the body when it is trying to adjust is not wise. I am trying to right the ship chemically speaking so I don't want lactic acid, and what else affecting me until my body is able to handle it better. If it makes you feel good then by all means do it.
>
> As far as depersonalization it is when I feel kind of outside my body. I just don't feel "me". It happens when I am spacey the most. I almost get this feeling like I am not connected. It is very scary and I think it is kind of related to anxiety too.
>
> I slept better last night. I just curled up on the floor and my wife woke me up later. I slept somewhat better until 5 or so. Sunday and Monday were bad though
>
> Hope everyone is better.
>
> johnnyj
Posted by jeninco on June 21, 2006, at 10:29:14
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on June 21, 2006, at 0:38:25
I'm down to 1/8 of a pill (I think that's right, 1/2 of a 1/4?) and am feeling pretty crappy. I am taking dramamine to help me rest and to take away the nauseau. I'm not sure as to how long I will stay at this dosage; as others have said in some ways I feel like I'm just prolonging withdrawal. After this I'm going to every other day, every third day, etc.
Posted by jules354 on June 21, 2006, at 11:18:35
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » jules354, posted by johnnyj on June 19, 2006, at 17:01:31
i'm so glad to hear something is helping you. hang in there...
i'm going to try that breathing website you sent as i've had a lot of anxiety when going to bed lately. i think it might help.
take care,
jules
Posted by johnnyj on June 21, 2006, at 13:41:01
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » johnnyj, posted by jules354 on June 21, 2006, at 11:18:35
Hello Jules:
I don't want to jinx myself but I have been using the breathing, 4 in and 4 out, and my chest stuff has abated quite a lot. I actually slept close to 7 hours the past two nights. It really freaks me out to think I can feel sooo bad for a week or more and then in the span of a few days feel somewhat better.
It really is up and down. I am very, very cautiously optimistic that I may see some up days. I do wake up early still but I am laying down on the floor about 10:30 or so and then making it into bed later. I woke up about 5:45 or so and am awake and there is no way to get back to sleep but that is ok. I am just hoping some day the alarm will wake me up. If I can get 6.5 to 7 hours I am happy. Still feel kind of weird at times and my stomach is still tense but some progress has been made. Man, that ten days or so prior to that was hell. And doctors will say there is no W/D!! What a lie.
Have you had any depersonalization stuff? It is better but I was really kind of freaked out the last week. Thank you for you posts! Keep plugging away.
johnnyj
Posted by johnnyj on June 21, 2006, at 13:44:49
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by jeninco on June 21, 2006, at 10:29:14
Hi,
I just wanted to let you know that when I went to 3.75 mg I had a very hard 3 weeks. I almost thinkg the startle effect and some other symptoms were worse than when I went totally off. But, there are other symptoms which I have written about since going off. Nausea was one of the worst and feeling really down.
try some breathing excercise like I posted above to relax you. I don't know if alternating days is the best for this med. What does the doc say? Remember for tapering there is no prize for doing it quick ya know? Good luck
johnnyj
Posted by jeninco on June 21, 2006, at 14:17:10
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » jeninco, posted by johnnyj on June 21, 2006, at 13:44:49
Johnny,
Doctor says it should be completely out of my system by 2 weeks, so she's NO help at all. I barely felt the witdrawal until around that time last time.
I was okay going to 3.75; the only symptoms I felt were that it no longer knocked me out for sleep which was the reason I was put on it in the first place.
But I definitely feel nauseau at 1.875. And it seems to be coming on faster than before. My doctor would say it was all in my head. :(
Glad to hear you are having better days.
Posted by johnnyj on June 21, 2006, at 15:33:36
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by jeninco on June 21, 2006, at 14:17:10
Believe me, it is not in your head. It is real withdrawal. I was told the same thing and my doc looked at me like I was making it up. I will take my experiences and others over med pushing docs anyday.
I went from 3.75 to zero and I was mistaken that is what you have done. Others have done the 1.85 or 2 mg too. I found the 7.5 to 3.75 to be very real in withdrawal and I know a doc would not agree. Again, I felt the same when I withdrew from my benzo. When I went to zero it was the worst, then the best.
hang in there
johnnyj
Posted by musky on June 21, 2006, at 23:18:24
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by jeninco on June 21, 2006, at 10:29:14
>
Hello:If you dont mind I would suggest to stay on this dose for at least 2-3months.. and then Stop. if you skip days yu just mix the biochemistry up I think.. Remeron has a very long half life..and then the titer in your blood will be up and down. You want to be consistently lowering the dose at a linear rate I would think.. then it shoud be easier... That's my suggestion.. but of course its up to you.
the other posts ive read and people skipped doses ,they had trouble.. its like your brain will have an"x" amount of drug one day, then if you skip one day it will decrease to another amount"y" , then if you take a pill the next day you have now gone back to "x" dose and so on.. Then the body CANNOT adjust.... it justs yo's yo's.Good luck
Musky
I'm down to 1/8 of a pill (I think that's right, 1/2 of a 1/4?) and am feeling pretty crappy. I am taking dramamine to help me rest and to take away the nauseau. I'm not sure as to how long I will stay at this dosage; as others have said in some ways I feel like I'm just prolonging withdrawal. After this I'm going to every other day, every third day, etc.
Posted by musky on June 21, 2006, at 23:21:30
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » johnnyj, posted by jules354 on June 21, 2006, at 11:18:35
> Hey jules .. I thought you were doing not bad?? wondering why you are getting anxiety again??? after 4months off?? I wonder cause my past experience before Remeron was with amytriptylene and I noticed that after 3months off , thats when it was kinda a delayed w/d.. and I was worse then , then at the first weeks off.. strange... but then i think thats when the body has no drug at all and needs to rely now totally on its own resources to kick in..
Musky
i'm so glad to hear something is helping you. hang in there...
>
> i'm going to try that breathing website you sent as i've had a lot of anxiety when going to bed lately. i think it might help.
>
> take care,
> jules
Posted by musky on June 21, 2006, at 23:27:13
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » jules354, posted by johnnyj on June 21, 2006, at 13:41:01
>
Hi Johnny:Good to hear you are improving.. yes it sounds like you had hell days..
Me Im up and down.. today was bad day.. VERY tired.. woke up at 3am?? then stressed, and tense and lots of dizzy , weak, headaches. etc... and then anxious thoughts.. almost went back to acupuncture before my next app time(not til next week), but now it seems to have passed a bit.. just took it easy tonight and tried to change my mind... just trying to keep going..
Today is 1month off Remeron.. and like you say docs dont believe you when you say w/d .. they are full of it...they should take the drug and see how they feel!!!!keep hangin in
musky
Hello Jules:
>
> I don't want to jinx myself but I have been using the breathing, 4 in and 4 out, and my chest stuff has abated quite a lot. I actually slept close to 7 hours the past two nights. It really freaks me out to think I can feel sooo bad for a week or more and then in the span of a few days feel somewhat better.
>
> It really is up and down. I am very, very cautiously optimistic that I may see some up days. I do wake up early still but I am laying down on the floor about 10:30 or so and then making it into bed later. I woke up about 5:45 or so and am awake and there is no way to get back to sleep but that is ok. I am just hoping some day the alarm will wake me up. If I can get 6.5 to 7 hours I am happy. Still feel kind of weird at times and my stomach is still tense but some progress has been made. Man, that ten days or so prior to that was hell. And doctors will say there is no W/D!! What a lie.
>
> Have you had any depersonalization stuff? It is better but I was really kind of freaked out the last week. Thank you for you posts! Keep plugging away.
>
> johnnyj
>
>
Posted by musky on June 21, 2006, at 23:37:11
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by jeninco on June 21, 2006, at 14:17:10
> Jenico:
ITs NOT all in your head... you know your body better than anyone.. you are in it 24/7 how could you not..
Yes they tell yu the drug is out of the body in 2 weeks... what they DONT tell you is that the BIOCHEMISTRY has been altered and THAT is what the w/d is and takes time..
I dont see how they can say 2 weeks ,when they tell uyou when you go on it that it takes SEVERAL weeks to build a titer in the first place..
Also women metabolize Remeron much slower than men. I researched and found out that it takes 37hrs to reach half life.. and thats HALF life(for women).. and only 26 hrs (about) for Men. so when you think about it.. 1/2 of 1/2 in 37hrs. then that half has got to break down... etc.and remember when you are on the drug you are constantly BUILDING It in the bloodstream So for example say you were taking 30mg.. well in 37hrs if you didnt take anymore drug , there would be 15mg left in the blood .. BUT if you are taking the pills everyday... then 15 would be left and then after 24hrs you would take another 30mg right(next dosage)... therefore you would have the 15mg still and the new 30mg.. so my point being it keeps building in the system.. so when the docs rx. 30mg ,,, really ITS not what is ACTUALLY inthe body after weeks and weeks..
I hope this isnt too confusing.. but to me this is very scary..
Anyways keep going slowly off ... takes timeMusky
Johnny,
>
> Doctor says it should be completely out of my system by 2 weeks, so she's NO help at all. I barely felt the witdrawal until around that time last time.
>
> I was okay going to 3.75; the only symptoms I felt were that it no longer knocked me out for sleep which was the reason I was put on it in the first place.
>
> But I definitely feel nauseau at 1.875. And it seems to be coming on faster than before. My doctor would say it was all in my head. :(
>
> Glad to hear you are having better days.
>
Posted by musky on June 21, 2006, at 23:43:45
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » jeninco, posted by johnnyj on June 21, 2006, at 15:33:36
>Exactly johnny... its w/d.. yes and the doc looked at me strange too, that it was my IMAGINATION.. that i anticipated it.. like hell.. I got this stuff happening, then read about the symptoms... anyways it doesnt matter... the last time i trusted those doctors and kept taking the meds.. it ended me up in the psyche ward for 6 weeks... NO, this time I listen to me.. and to God.. thankyou.. i will stick it out... however long it takes.. crappy and all. I dont want to be trappped on mind altering meds... its been a pure nightmare to say the least..
I just wished i knew more then how to cope that I do now so i wouldnt have ended up crashing.. I blame being on so many meds then finally ending up on Remeron.. worse experience of my life this medication stuff...
Well good luck
keep posting.. Hope i got some good mood days coming and lower anxiety levels...Musky
Believe me, it is not in your head. It is real withdrawal. I was told the same thing and my doc looked at me like I was making it up. I will take my experiences and others over med pushing docs anyday.
>
> I went from 3.75 to zero and I was mistaken that is what you have done. Others have done the 1.85 or 2 mg too. I found the 7.5 to 3.75 to be very real in withdrawal and I know a doc would not agree. Again, I felt the same when I withdrew from my benzo. When I went to zero it was the worst, then the best.
> hang in there
> johnnyj
Posted by johnnyj on June 22, 2006, at 8:52:24
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on June 21, 2006, at 23:27:13
Well, after two decent nights I hardly slept last night. Just could not fall asleep and then when I did I was back up at 4 AM. I just don't understand all of this up and down stuff. Everything is up and down. Head tension is back to very bad right now and dizzy, etc. It is hard to know if this is expected or not. But, the two prior days I slept better since stopping remeron so that is somewhat encouraging.
johnnyj
Posted by jeninco on June 22, 2006, at 14:22:23
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on June 21, 2006, at 23:18:24
I guess I'm just going by past experience. I went off zoloft (half life of 27 hrs I read) pretty easily, and that was taking a sliver every other day, every 3rd day, etc. I would think with the longer half life this would work. But we'll have to wait and see. I'm not sure I want to stay on the tiny amt for 2-3 months though. I know it's not a race to be over.... The 1.8 dose seems SO FREAKING insignificant. It's hard to believe it can do anything at all to your body.
Posted by johnnyj on June 22, 2006, at 14:51:02
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on June 21, 2006, at 23:27:13
Musky,
I am amazed, but probably shouldn't be, at how many symptoms we have that are identical. I am now 1 month off and am very tired. Strange things going on inside my body that is for sure.
We had storms last night that helped keep me awake and I found out I did not pass a certain certification I was going for so I was down. This probably affected me last night.
I have been having a lot of stomach tightness, like I just did 200 situps, and it moves up and down my chest too. Some burning sensation in my chest too. If it is bad sleep is hard to come by it seems to be an extension of anxiety that keeps me from being totally relaxed. I never had this before remeron. I guess one month is a short time off this drug and I need to be patient. I may look into something to help me sleep like skullcap or something.
One thing I am not getting is the startle effect when going to sleep. That appears to have been caused by the remeron.
Hope things even out sometime soon for all of us. I am thinking we have a long road ahead of us. I remember a poster that said he/she was on remeron for neck pain and it took 2 months for the anxiety and nausea/flu like stuff to calm down and (gulp, 8 months for the sleep) to get back to normal. I don't think it will take us that long but decent sleep will come (please, please).
cheers
johnnyj
Posted by jules354 on June 22, 2006, at 16:04:49
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on June 21, 2006, at 23:21:30
hey musky,
i think it's just stress, and i think maybe the remeron has been helping me deal with stress, so now without it i'm needing to lean more on my other coping mechanisms. but if it's also a bit of w/d, i'm not too surprised. esp with the stuff you posted about women and the drug half life.
btw the breathing stuff helped. i try to be conscious of my breathing from doing yoga etc but it's hard to remember when you're really anxious!
hang in there everybody...
take care,
jules
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