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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Mark23 on May 30, 2006, at 12:22:01
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity » gapsgal, posted by SLS on May 27, 2006, at 11:38:05
Unfortunately research has a LONG way to go. An interesting book "The Second Brain"
by Michael Gershon discusses what's going on in your stomach (a lot more serotonin activity than in your brain and the reason people have GI trouble taking SSRIs). That's one reason you start SSRIs at a low dose. After reading it I came to the conclusion that many medications treat symptoms and your body eventually overrides or at least diminishes the effect of the meds.For example if you take antacids for heartburn you stomach says "hey the pH is too high" and it pumps even more acid. The best thing would be to remove the stress that caused the heartburn. If it's cold outside and someone had set the thermostat too high, you don't open a window to cool the house, you turn down the thermostat! Opening a window might help for a while, but your house will not function properly and you heating bill will go up.
Similarly the body works hard to counteract the SSNRIs and in the meantime we suffer side effects. Until the pharmilogical industry learns how to turn down the thermostat instead of opening a window we will never be as helped as we could be.
>
> There is an incredible amount of research being conducted in this area. Neuroscience is a field exploding with investigation. Internet search engines should provide you with evidence as to how large in scope and depth this research is.
>
> > When addicts withdraw they have similiar symptoms and these are known to cause long-term damage to the brain...
>
> Which things are known to cause damage, the drugs themselves or the withdrawal process? I think both can produce changes that persist. Unfortuately, these treatments are not what we would like them to be.
>
> > anything that alters the brains way of working can permanently change things in the brain.
>
> How do you know this? That is a rather sweeping statement that I have not yet seen stated in medical literature.
>
> > Consider someone who is addicted to pain medicine, why? Because it has changed the way their brain works and chances are the change is permanent.
>
> I am not sure that the permanence of these changes has yet been ascertained in research.
>
> One thing that has not yet entered into this discussion is the impact mental illness has on one's ability to function and their quality of life. I feel that the degree to which these illnesses debilitate and cause pain is severe enough to be treated aggressively with drugs that are not yet perfect.
>
>
> - Scott
>
Posted by Mark23 on May 30, 2006, at 14:18:02
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity, posted by Mark23 on May 30, 2006, at 12:22:01
Hmmmm that link didn't seem to work the book "The Second Brain
by Michael Gershon" is less than $11 at Amazon.
> Unfortunately research has a LONG way to go. An interesting book "The Second Brain"
> by Michael Gershon discusses what's going on in your stomach (a lot more serotonin activity than in your brain and the reason people have GI trouble taking SSRIs).
Posted by musky on May 31, 2006, at 0:25:03
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity, posted by Mark23 on May 30, 2006, at 12:22:01
>
Just reading this post... and thats just great.. now Im a little concerned about permanent changes the drug ive been on has done... I always thought that this is just temporary and that the brain will recover after stopping the med... I mean there is so much out there that peoples addictions and personal experiences of people that have overcome their addictions and are fine.
Unless you count people that have been on hard street drugs... Im hoping that a/d are not as severe as Heroin... gee Now i really really wish I hadnt taken this damn a/d!!!
I agree with your comment about turning down the thermostat... I believe this too be true ,,, get at the ROOT of the problem, not just mask it with meds..
Meds may be usful for short term... even then I have my doubts.. but certainly not for long term.. thats where cognitive retraining comes in.musky
Unfortunately research has a LONG way to go. An interesting book "The Second Brain"
> by Michael Gershon discusses what's going on in your stomach (a lot more serotonin activity than in your brain and the reason people have GI trouble taking SSRIs). That's one reason you start SSRIs at a low dose. After reading it I came to the conclusion that many medications treat symptoms and your body eventually overrides or at least diminishes the effect of the meds.
>
> For example if you take antacids for heartburn you stomach says "hey the pH is too high" and it pumps even more acid. The best thing would be to remove the stress that caused the heartburn. If it's cold outside and someone had set the thermostat too high, you don't open a window to cool the house, you turn down the thermostat! Opening a window might help for a while, but your house will not function properly and you heating bill will go up.
>
> Similarly the body works hard to counteract the SSNRIs and in the meantime we suffer side effects. Until the pharmilogical industry learns how to turn down the thermostat instead of opening a window we will never be as helped as we could be.
>
> >
> > There is an incredible amount of research being conducted in this area. Neuroscience is a field exploding with investigation. Internet search engines should provide you with evidence as to how large in scope and depth this research is.
> >
> > > When addicts withdraw they have similiar symptoms and these are known to cause long-term damage to the brain...
> >
> > Which things are known to cause damage, the drugs themselves or the withdrawal process? I think both can produce changes that persist. Unfortuately, these treatments are not what we would like them to be.
> >
> > > anything that alters the brains way of working can permanently change things in the brain.
> >
> > How do you know this? That is a rather sweeping statement that I have not yet seen stated in medical literature.
> >
> > > Consider someone who is addicted to pain medicine, why? Because it has changed the way their brain works and chances are the change is permanent.
> >
> > I am not sure that the permanence of these changes has yet been ascertained in research.
> >
> > One thing that has not yet entered into this discussion is the impact mental illness has on one's ability to function and their quality of life. I feel that the degree to which these illnesses debilitate and cause pain is severe enough to be treated aggressively with drugs that are not yet perfect.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
> >
>
>
Posted by elliemae on May 31, 2006, at 12:16:16
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity, posted by musky on May 31, 2006, at 0:25:03
How long do the withdrawal symptoms usually last? I stopped taking my Cymbalta 30mg 5 days ago (cold turkey) after being on the drug for 6 months. I've had dizziness, a constant headache and these weird "flashes" that are reminiscent of a head rush when you stand up too fast since Monday (three days).
I have Antivert but that doesn't seem to help at all. Does the Benedryl remedy that I've read about in these posts work?
Posted by Avalon on May 31, 2006, at 17:28:05
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity, posted by elliemae on May 31, 2006, at 12:16:16
Ellimae, sorry you're going through the crap that everyone else on here seems to be experiencing. I will let someone else who's been through this advise you on how long to expect symptoms. I had stopped for 4 days (after only being on 3 weeks and STILL having withdrawal symptoms) but was advised by someone on the boards here to go back on and taper off. I imagine at your stage, 5 days off, it would be pointless to do that. I've now been tapering for 2 weeks, taking the 30 mg caps every other day and dumping out an increasing # of granules each time. (Counting those granules is like counting grains of sand!) I still fear I will have nausea when I completely stop.
Posted by kparis on May 31, 2006, at 17:53:11
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Ellimae, posted by Avalon on May 31, 2006, at 17:28:05
Hi,
I have officially been off of Cymbalta for one week today!! I feel better than I did on the horrible 4th and 5th day. My only symptoms now are the horrible edema and my eyes feel as if they are separate entities within my head...head goes one way, eyes go the other and never seem to catch up with each other. My sleep is still STRANGE and muscles ache, but, considering what it was like and could still be like, I'd say I'm doing pretty darn well.I hope you have as much "luck" as I have had with removing this insidious drug from your system!
KParis
Posted by kparis on June 1, 2006, at 7:34:28
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Ellimae, posted by kparis on May 31, 2006, at 17:53:11
I guess I spoke too soon yesterday. I had a horrible panic attack. I also put a call in to my psychiatrist about the edema. She said she'd never heard of that as a side effect. HAS ANYONE OUT THERE EXPERIENCED THE SEVERE EDEMA THING?! It is messed up.
Thanks and keep on keeping on...
kpairs
Posted by Nick K. on June 1, 2006, at 17:27:27
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Ellimae, posted by kparis on June 1, 2006, at 7:34:28
First things first: I'm just over 2 weeks into total abstinence from cymbalta now...The overwhelming intensity of the withdrawal experience has faded significantly and the "brain shocks" are no longer happening. However, I'm experiencing some of the old depressive symptoms such as: Exaggerated fear. Confusion. Difficulty focusing. Aggravation. Anxiety. Lack of self-confidence. Critical thinking about myself and my body.
I'm still keeping in mind that the withdrawal is probably the cause of these negative symptoms, which helps to put things in perspective. These thoughts and feelings ARE NOT REAL, they are generated by my own mind for reasons I don't understand. I don't believe in any particular god, but I force myself to pray for help several times a day... just in case there IS a higher power out there. it seems to be helping somehow. Also, trying to help somebody else is the most counter-intuitive thing for me to do in this condition, but it is an unbelievable relief.
Regarding the EDEMA issue:
I've noticed the same sort of thing in myself, but not to the serious degree that you (Ellimae) have described. I feel bloated, like I'm retaining water, or just not nearly as attractive as I was used to feeling before. I can't tell if this is my mind playing tricks on the way I perceive myself, or if I am actually suffering from physical symptoms. I forced myself to excercise yesterday for almost 2 hours, until I was completely exhausted. Coincidentally I slept well last night and I feel better today. I wouldn't be surprised if physical activity is a form of detox.My mind will try to convince me of some horrible things sometimes...
I refuse to become a victim of my own brain.At least, thats what I'm telling myself today.
-Nick
Posted by Nick K. on June 1, 2006, at 17:37:46
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Ellimae, posted by Nick K. on June 1, 2006, at 17:27:27
I meant to direct the edema issue to kparis, not ellimae... sorry!
-Nick
Posted by kparis on June 1, 2006, at 18:47:30
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Ellimae, posted by Nick K. on June 1, 2006, at 17:27:27
Hi Nick not a problem.
I spoke with my psychiatrist last evening about the edema and she told me to speak with my GP. I called him today and will see him tomorrow. I'll let you all know what he says.
I, too, use exercise as a form of detox. It does work. I also went out and bought tons of fresh fruits, veggies, and I drink 6-9 bottles of water per day. I think it helps. I also started taking 1000 mg of omega 3 vitamins and vit E. I read that that may help with the weight gain from the Cymbaltal and with the withdrawal in general. I hope so!
Congrats on your 2 weeks! I don't even know you and yet I'm proud of you! It's not easy to just stop and not give in to the temptation of just taking it again. Way to go!
Have a great evening and I hope you sleep well again.
Kparis
Posted by gapsgal on June 1, 2006, at 22:05:40
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Ellimae, posted by kparis on June 1, 2006, at 7:34:28
guys i was having the edema as well and i was just informed by my doctor that I need to see a specialist because I am experiencing kidney failure...hopefully all of this is just a coincidence...but just in case as your doctors to check your kidney function.
Donna
> I guess I spoke too soon yesterday. I had a horrible panic attack. I also put a call in to my psychiatrist about the edema. She said she'd never heard of that as a side effect. HAS ANYONE OUT THERE EXPERIENCED THE SEVERE EDEMA THING?! It is messed up.
>
> Thanks and keep on keeping on...
> kpairs
Posted by kparis on June 2, 2006, at 16:56:24
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Ellimae, posted by gapsgal on June 1, 2006, at 22:05:40
Hi All,
Day nine and counting!
I saw my GP today and he agreed that this is an evil drug to get off of. He also said that there were many more side effects than with most other drugs of its kind. My BP is high and I need to have a kidney function test done on Monday along with other tests. He said that I have to get my BP down and that will help with the edema. He does not feel that I will need to be on BP meds when I'm finished with the withdrawal. I feel like crap. A sausage about to pop. Blah.
Hope you're all doing well/better than yesterday/all that is good.
Kparis
Posted by Avalon on June 2, 2006, at 17:15:03
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Ellimae, posted by kparis on June 2, 2006, at 16:56:24
Kparis, that's great that you've made it 9 days but really discouraging that you're still having symptoms. I am now down to every other day, I dump increasing # of granules out each time so I'm probably down to about a 15 mg dose. And I already have waves of nausea here and there, and I'm not even completely off it yet. I'd like to stop after tomorrow's dose, but I'm so afraid. I am trying to get my house ready to sell so there's a lot of work to be done, and I can't afford to be sick....especially for an extended period of time!
Please keep us posted and hope you feel better soon.
Posted by gapsgal on June 3, 2006, at 11:07:16
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Ellimae, posted by kparis on June 2, 2006, at 16:56:24
I am down to 15 mg as well, i have been told that my kidneys are losing function and that I may have kidney disease, could this be a coincidence? Do you think our kidneys have been damaged by this drug? I have already lost 30 percent of my overal kidney function which should be at 90.
> Hi All,
> Day nine and counting!
> I saw my GP today and he agreed that this is an evil drug to get off of. He also said that there were many more side effects than with most other drugs of its kind. My BP is high and I need to have a kidney function test done on Monday along with other tests. He said that I have to get my BP down and that will help with the edema. He does not feel that I will need to be on BP meds when I'm finished with the withdrawal. I feel like crap. A sausage about to pop. Blah.
> Hope you're all doing well/better than yesterday/all that is good.
> Kparis
>
Posted by kparis on June 3, 2006, at 12:07:06
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Ellimae, posted by gapsgal on June 3, 2006, at 11:07:16
I am so sorry about the kidney function. Could be it has affected our kidneys. I had an extremely difficult time yesterday/last evening. When will it end? It seems that one gets through what one thinks is the worst of it and then something else crops up and feels like the worst of it. This is not okay. We truly must watch our kidney functions and ask many questions. If it is destroying our kidneys, what are we to do? It feels like something out of a B horror movie!
Kparis
Posted by gapsgal on June 4, 2006, at 11:06:53
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Ellimae, posted by kparis on June 3, 2006, at 12:07:06
I never linked my kidney problem to this until I began reading other posts. The sad thing is that Eli Lilly would never admit to this if it is related.
Donna
> I am so sorry about the kidney function. Could be it has affected our kidneys. I had an extremely difficult time yesterday/last evening. When will it end? It seems that one gets through what one thinks is the worst of it and then something else crops up and feels like the worst of it. This is not okay. We truly must watch our kidney functions and ask many questions. If it is destroying our kidneys, what are we to do? It feels like something out of a B horror movie!
>
> Kparis
Posted by kparis on June 4, 2006, at 15:08:23
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Ellimae, posted by gapsgal on June 4, 2006, at 11:06:53
http://www.yourlawyer.com/newsletter/read/57
this site talks about Cymbalta.
My kidney pain goes on and on. Tuesday I'll have tests done. My GP feels that Cymbalta is to blame.
I'll keep you posted.
Be well!
KParis
Posted by kparis on June 5, 2006, at 21:00:22
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal » secretme, posted by kparis on April 30, 2006, at 11:28:38
Is no one any longer reading/responding/sharing on this blog?
Posted by Avalon on June 5, 2006, at 22:03:30
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal, posted by kparis on June 5, 2006, at 21:00:22
Hi KP, I'm still here. In fact, I have an update from my appt with my PM doc this morning. As you may recall, when I called his office to tell him I was going through withdrawal, I was told I should NOT be going through withdrawal from Cymbalta. So that was a couple weeks ago and I went back on the drug and have been slowly tapering off ever since. Today I probably took about 5 mg worth. So at my appt today, he again tells me he doubts it was withdrawal, it was probably a stomach flu. When I started to say what the packaging said about the symptoms from abrupt discontinuance (which included nausea, which I had), he cut me off and said he was quite aware of what was in the prescribing information, and that abrupt withdrawal meant going from a much higher dose to zero ... not 30 mg like I had been on. So I just let the conversation drop, I wasn't about to argue and I certainly wasn't about to cite the Internet, you know how much they love that. He said no other patients have complained of this. His nurse told me she went off it and had no problems. So I guess we all just have the stomach flu...for weeks on end.
I think I will try not taking anymore after today's dose. I'll let you know how I feel in a few days. I hope I don't get sick because I'm having dinner with friends Thurs. night. How are YOU feeling?
Posted by gapsgal on June 5, 2006, at 22:13:26
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Ellimae, posted by kparis on June 4, 2006, at 15:08:23
I have submitted my info to the law site you suggested and hope you did the same. Maybe if enough of us do this something can be done.
Donna
> http://www.yourlawyer.com/newsletter/read/57
>
> this site talks about Cymbalta.
>
> My kidney pain goes on and on. Tuesday I'll have tests done. My GP feels that Cymbalta is to blame.
>
> I'll keep you posted.
>
> Be well!
> KParis
Posted by gapsgal on June 5, 2006, at 22:16:03
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal, posted by Avalon on June 5, 2006, at 22:03:30
Do you plan to continue seeing this doctor? I have just about had it with these doctors who are not up to date on this and act like we are all idiots.
> Hi KP, I'm still here. In fact, I have an update from my appt with my PM doc this morning. As you may recall, when I called his office to tell him I was going through withdrawal, I was told I should NOT be going through withdrawal from Cymbalta. So that was a couple weeks ago and I went back on the drug and have been slowly tapering off ever since. Today I probably took about 5 mg worth. So at my appt today, he again tells me he doubts it was withdrawal, it was probably a stomach flu. When I started to say what the packaging said about the symptoms from abrupt discontinuance (which included nausea, which I had), he cut me off and said he was quite aware of what was in the prescribing information, and that abrupt withdrawal meant going from a much higher dose to zero ... not 30 mg like I had been on. So I just let the conversation drop, I wasn't about to argue and I certainly wasn't about to cite the Internet, you know how much they love that. He said no other patients have complained of this. His nurse told me she went off it and had no problems. So I guess we all just have the stomach flu...for weeks on end.
>
> I think I will try not taking anymore after today's dose. I'll let you know how I feel in a few days. I hope I don't get sick because I'm having dinner with friends Thurs. night. How are YOU feeling?
Posted by kparis on June 6, 2006, at 5:34:53
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal, posted by Avalon on June 5, 2006, at 22:03:30
Hi Avalon,
It is so frustrating to have a doc tell you that it's "all in your head." Here we are trying to feel better and we only end up feeling worse because they are telling us we're not really feeling like what we are feeling because they never heard of it.
I hope you do well stopping your Cymbalta. It is so very hard but having the strength to say that you are not going to put that poison into your body is a wonderful and brave thing to do.
I'm feeling horrible. Fortunately, my psychiatrist, GP, and pharmasist are all very supportative. I am feeling worthless, my kidney pain is out of this world, and the extra weight and edema is making me feel ugly and old. Time will tell. I see my GP today for kidney function tests and my psychiatrist called me yesterday and talked to me for quite awhile. She is really wonderful and said that she has much to learn about the drugs she prescribes because all she really has to go on are what the companies tell her and most importantly the feedback from her patients.
I'll let you know how I make and and I hope you do well with stopping the "evil drug."
KestaP
Posted by kparis on June 6, 2006, at 5:36:43
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Ellimae, posted by gapsgal on June 5, 2006, at 22:13:26
> I have submitted my info to the law site you suggested and hope you did the same. Maybe if enough of us do this something can be done.
>
> Donna
Hi Donna,
I haven't as yet. I'm waiting to see what my kidney function results are so I'll have even more amunition!
Feel better,
KestaP
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > http://www.yourlawyer.com/newsletter/read/57
> >
> > this site talks about Cymbalta.
> >
> > My kidney pain goes on and on. Tuesday I'll have tests done. My GP feels that Cymbalta is to blame.
> >
> > I'll keep you posted.
> >
> > Be well!
> > KParis
>
>
Posted by Jaspar on June 6, 2006, at 16:46:03
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Ellimae, posted by kparis on June 6, 2006, at 5:36:43
My weird visual/vertigo withdrawal thing is only happening a few times per day now, so it is definitely better.
I'm back to pain and depression. I have just started on a nutritional supplement regimen recommended for depression & anxiety WITHOUT the SAM-e which I want to wait on until all the Cymbalta is out of my system and I have ZERO withdrawal symptoms left... maybe a couple more weeks. I want to be SURE of how I react to the SAM-e.
I am a bit surprised that I am as depressed & anxious as I am... even more than before I went on the Cymbalta... but maybe I still had some of the Zoloft in my system when I went on the Cymbalta. I don't remember. :-(
-Jaspar
Posted by Avalon on June 7, 2006, at 12:07:20
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal, posted by Jaspar on June 6, 2006, at 16:46:03
Jaspar, you're probably depressed over everything the stupid Cymbalta has put you through! Really, sorry to hear of your pain and depression but I understand not wanting to introduce anything new until your system is cleared. My doctor wants me to start on the Pamelor but I want to make sure I'm clear of Cymbalta (it's day 2 of withdrawal and I did feel sick this morning). Plus I just started Kadian and I want to make sure I can tolerate that before starting something else.
Hang in there and we're here for you!
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