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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 34. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by MARTY on April 20, 2006, at 0:41:25
-== IntroductionBecause of a lost of effiency and some side effects I wasn't able to handle anymore, I decided to stop Nardil 90mg. While it's suggested in old literature to wait 14 days before starting another MAOI, new one talk about 10 days and even 7.
My plan is to stop Nardil for 7 days and then start Parnate.
My withdrawal started Thursday 13 April and will end with my first pill of Parnate on Thursday 20 April.
-== The Withdrawal - DAY 3 - Sunday 15 AprilThe first 2 days as been smooth. A little anxiety on day 2, which I attribute to a loose of Nardil GABAnergic effect. 2 or 3 time I also had some 'down'. Not much to say.
DAY 3: I sleep well but with A LOT of dreaming. From what I've read the phenomenon is called "REM REBOUND" and is the brain trying to compensate is lack of REM sleeping while being on the AD. Take note that Nardil is the AD which is suppressing the most of REM sleeping: 100%!
When I waken up it didn't take long before I feel some lite depressive ideas: nothing to do today, this place where I live is boring, I never do something worth living.. etc
Physically is the first day I sens somethings different. I'm dazed, dizzy, difficulty to walk.. AND I GOT SOME INFAMOUS BRAIN ZAPPINGS :|
For those who don't know what is brain zapping, imagine that sometime, when you move you eyes horizontally, you have a weird feeling in the eyes, you feel drunk for some microsecond AND YOU FEEL AND HEAR AN ELECTRIC "ZAAAAP!" in your brain! As for DAY 3, those ZAP aren't very strong, but they tend to get stronger as the day pass while doing your withdrawal. There is sometimes when those Zaps are so strong in your head that you need to ask people talking to you to repeat what they were saying because the Zap was louder than their voice!
Here's for DAY 3 - BTW, I did diminish my dosage gradually before stopping completely my NARDIL. I've choosen the cowboy way.. abrupt withdrawal. After all it's not Paxil right ? :S let's hope! (my last Paxil withdrawal took 1 month and a half with brain zapping so loud I sometime feared my neighbours would place official complain to the appartment owner ;) LOLThanks to be here -- It wouldn't be the same without you guys :D
Marty
Posted by MARTY on April 20, 2006, at 0:41:25
In reply to MARTY'S NARDIL WITHDRAWAL JOURNAL - DAY3, posted by MARTY on April 15, 2006, at 21:36:59
Just after I wrote my first thread post...I just fall on the floor .. after I hit my face on a rope where my girlfriend put wet laundry .. 'sufffffering' :P
LOL, Don't worry.. 2 minutes later it was only funny ;) my face is hurting while I write this eheh .. now that's what I call LIVE NEWSMarty :o)
Posted by SLS on April 20, 2006, at 0:41:25
In reply to UPDATE DAY 3 --, posted by MARTY on April 15, 2006, at 21:43:55
Thanks for the update.
I hope things go more smoothly for you tomorrow.
By the way, you speak English very well.
Be well.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on April 20, 2006, at 0:41:26
In reply to UPDATE DAY 3 --, posted by MARTY on April 15, 2006, at 21:43:55
What country are you from? Fondly Phillipa
Posted by Crazy Horse on April 20, 2006, at 0:41:26
In reply to UPDATE DAY 3 --, posted by MARTY on April 15, 2006, at 21:43:55
>
> Just after I wrote my first thread post...
>
> I just fall on the floor .. after I hit my face on a rope where my girlfriend put wet laundry .. 'sufffffering' :P
>
> LOL, Don't worry.. 2 minutes later it was only funny ;) my face is hurting while I write this eheh .. now that's what I call LIVE NEWS
>
> Marty :o)Be careful my friend, are you ok? Crazy horse fall too sometimes when drink too much fire water...hick. :)
These drugs are so weird, I was on Paxil for 5 years and was on a high dose. Going off it took two weeks without any problems..?? And most people like you have a horrible time going off it. Keep doing well Parn.-Crazy Horse
Posted by MARTY on April 20, 2006, at 0:41:26
In reply to Re: UPDATE DAY 3 --, posted by SLS on April 15, 2006, at 21:59:50
> Thanks for the update.Thanks for the update? man.. I should pay you just to read my post! :P
> I hope things go more smoothly for you tomorrow.Thanks but I doubt it, the symptoms progression is fast, but I can take it. Be there, done that.
> By the way, you speak English very well.
:| Wow.. thanks for the compliment. I try to improve myself and I think hanging around this forum is helping me a lot. Never thought someone would tell me this, thanks!
Btw, how are you Scott ? Did see any update about your Wellbutrin trial in some time.. Has it attain a level of benefits where you could elect to keep it in your cocktail regiment ?
Marty
Posted by MARTY on April 20, 2006, at 0:41:26
In reply to Re: UPDATE DAY 3 --, posted by Phillipa on April 15, 2006, at 22:44:42
Hi Phillipa --In from Canada. In fact I'm a french canadian from Canada living in near Montreal, Quebec.
And you ? Phillipa is a cute name btw.
> What country are you from? Fondly Phillipa
hope your well
Marty
Posted by MARTY on April 20, 2006, at 0:41:26
In reply to Re: UPDATE DAY 3 -- » MARTY, posted by Crazy Horse on April 15, 2006, at 23:34:50
Say WHAT !? 2 weeks after 5 years of Paxil without problem?! Man.. If you could read the jealousy in my eyes! ahah I'm happy for you sincerly.. it could be nightmarish sometime. Just ask this girl who had this Paxil withdrawal who took 4 months and where she had to crawl on the floor to move into her appartment! (she is the one who initiated the class action against GlaxoSmithKline)I'll be carefull.. I've been taken by surprise. I usually doesn't lack balance/equilibrium when doing a withdrawal.
Go to go to sleep.. Chloral Hydrate force me to.
Marty nagana hyra rio jousupa.. Nardil star has fallen to the ground, 5 more days and he will rebirth as a beautifull Parnate butterfly :o)
ishh.. definitively need some sleep
> > Just after I wrote my first thread post...
> >
> > I just fall on the floor .. after I hit my face on a rope where my girlfriend put wet laundry .. 'sufffffering' :P
> >
> > LOL, Don't worry.. 2 minutes later it was only funny ;) my face is hurting while I write this eheh .. now that's what I call LIVE NEWS
> >
> > Marty :o)
>
> Be careful my friend, are you ok? Crazy horse fall too sometimes when drink too much fire water...hick. :)
> These drugs are so weird, I was on Paxil for 5 years and was on a high dose. Going off it took two weeks without any problems..?? And most people like you have a horrible time going off it. Keep doing well Parn.
>
> -Crazy Horse
>
Posted by ed_uk on April 20, 2006, at 0:41:26
In reply to Re: UPDATE DAY 3 -- » Crazy Horse, posted by MARTY on April 16, 2006, at 0:58:30
>Nardil star has fallen to the ground, 5 more days and he will rebirth as a beautifull Parnate butterfly :o)
LOL I like that :)
Ed
PS. You're English is very good
Posted by SLS on April 20, 2006, at 0:41:26
In reply to Re: UPDATE DAY 3 -- » SLS, posted by MARTY on April 16, 2006, at 0:45:07
Hi Marty.
> Btw, how are you Scott ? Did see any update about your Wellbutrin trial in some time.. Has it attain a level of benefits where you could elect to keep it in your cocktail regiment ?
This past week was a bit scary. I didn't feel quite as improved as I had the week before, so I thought that perhaps the response was waning. However, yesterday was definitely better. So far, I have maintained the improvement. This is significant because only once did I respond for more than a week or two, and that response ended up with my achieveing a full remission. The degree of improvement is very small, but significant. I am convinced that recovery for me will be an extremely gradual process. I might not feel completely well for a year. However, I could probably return to work in six months if this response pattern follows the same course as my previous remission. This morning, I am very optimistic.
Be well.
- Scott
Posted by MARTY on April 20, 2006, at 0:41:26
In reply to Re: UPDATE DAY 3 -- » MARTY, posted by ed_uk on April 16, 2006, at 5:55:59
Again!? Wow I wonder what happen to my english. Everyone I know usually laugh of it. I guest I'm better writing it than speaking it.Thanks :)
Marty
> >Nardil star has fallen to the ground, 5 more days and he will rebirth as a beautifull Parnate butterfly :o)
>
> LOL I like that :)
>
> Ed
>
> PS. You're English is very good
Posted by MARTY on April 20, 2006, at 0:41:26
In reply to Re: UPDATE DAY 3 -- » MARTY, posted by SLS on April 16, 2006, at 7:31:46
Hi Scott --Good to hear that you make progress and even better you are optimist and patient. Can I ask you how you feel the days that aren't so good ?
Are we talking about anxiety or depression ? maybe both ?Wellbutrin is hard to put on someone who is doing anxiety, like any dopaminergic I guess.
BTW, was Wellbutrin latest research find out that is was more noradrenergic than dopaminergic ? can't remember ...
Keep your optimist and patience. It's definitively the key to your succes with Wellbutrin.
Marty
> Hi Marty.
>
> > Btw, how are you Scott ? Did see any update about your Wellbutrin trial in some time.. Has it attain a level of benefits where you could elect to keep it in your cocktail regiment ?
>
> This past week was a bit scary. I didn't feel quite as improved as I had the week before, so I thought that perhaps the response was waning. However, yesterday was definitely better. So far, I have maintained the improvement. This is significant because only once did I respond for more than a week or two, and that response ended up with my achieveing a full remission. The degree of improvement is very small, but significant. I am convinced that recovery for me will be an extremely gradual process. I might not feel completely well for a year. However, I could probably return to work in six months if this response pattern follows the same course as my previous remission. This morning, I am very optimistic.
>
> Be well.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by SLS on April 20, 2006, at 0:41:26
In reply to Re: UPDATE DAY 3 -- » SLS, posted by MARTY on April 16, 2006, at 10:59:56
Hi Marty.
> Good to hear that you make progress and even better you are optimist and patient. Can I ask you how you feel the days that aren't so good ?
> Are we talking about anxiety or depression ? maybe both ?
Depressed. I have no mental or physical energy. I can't concentrate on anything. My mind is blank and I am content to just stare off into space. I remain practically motionless. I lose all interest and motivation in doing things. I have no drive. It is not so much apathy, but more of a feeling of passivity and helplessness. There is a great heaviness in my mind and body. Things seem dark and lifeless. I am numb to my surroundings. I am emotionally flat and unresponsive. I am socially inhibited and suffer from social anxiety.
> Wellbutrin is hard to put on someone who is doing anxiety, like any dopaminergic I guess.
I thought it was more of a norepinephrine thing.
> BTW, was Wellbutrin latest research find out that is was more noradrenergic than dopaminergic ?I believe so.
> Keep your optimist and patience. It's definitively the key to your succes with Wellbutrin.Thanks, Marty. I appreciate it.
- Scott
Posted by MARTY on April 20, 2006, at 0:41:27
In reply to Re: UPDATE DAY 3 -- » MARTY, posted by SLS on April 16, 2006, at 11:18:30
Depressed, ok.Do you take a benzo? specifically Klonopin/Clonazepam/Rivotril ? and if yes since how many time ?
I know you have try an MAOI, maybe two.. which did you try and why aren't you trying one back ?
Are you on a stimulant ? Provigil etc ?Bah.. I could be simpler to describe your cocktail, if you don't care.
Marty> Hi Marty.
>
> > Good to hear that you make progress and even better you are optimist and patient. Can I ask you how you feel the days that aren't so good ?
>
> > Are we talking about anxiety or depression ? maybe both ?
>
> Depressed. I have no mental or physical energy. I can't concentrate on anything. My mind is blank and I am content to just stare off into space. I remain practically motionless. I lose all interest and motivation in doing things. I have no drive. It is not so much apathy, but more of a feeling of passivity and helplessness. There is a great heaviness in my mind and body. Things seem dark and lifeless. I am numb to my surroundings. I am emotionally flat and unresponsive. I am socially inhibited and suffer from social anxiety.
>
> > Wellbutrin is hard to put on someone who is doing anxiety, like any dopaminergic I guess.
>
> I thought it was more of a norepinephrine thing.
>
> > BTW, was Wellbutrin latest research find out that is was more noradrenergic than dopaminergic ?
>
> I believe so.
>
> > Keep your optimist and patience. It's definitively the key to your succes with Wellbutrin.
>
> Thanks, Marty. I appreciate it.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by SLS on April 20, 2006, at 0:41:27
In reply to Re: UPDATE DAY 3 -- » SLS, posted by MARTY on April 16, 2006, at 11:24:03
Currently:
nortriptyline 100mg
Wellbutrin XL 300mg
Lamictal 100mg
Abilify 10mgAnxiety is not a big problem, as I have learned how to deal with it psychologically. I prefer not to take drugs to treat it. When the depression remits, so does the social anxiety.
My response to MAOIs is only partial and inadequate.
Provigil made my depression worse.
Amphetamine works for only a few days.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on April 20, 2006, at 0:41:27
In reply to Re: UPDATE DAY 3 --, posted by MARTY on April 16, 2006, at 0:49:38
Wow a lot of Canadians. I'm from originally Connecticut USA now in Charlotte North Carolina. the name is from a book I once read. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on April 20, 2006, at 0:41:27
In reply to Re: UPDATE DAY 3 -- » MARTY, posted by SLS on April 16, 2006, at 7:31:46
I've never asked before but type of work are you in? You are so knowledgeable my guess would be some type of medicine, or research. Love Phillipa
Posted by SLS on April 20, 2006, at 0:41:27
In reply to Re: UPDATE DAY 3 -- » SLS, posted by Phillipa on April 16, 2006, at 13:36:20
> I've never asked before but type of work are you in? You are so knowledgeable my guess would be some type of medicine, or research. Love Phillipa
I wish I could say that I was in some type of work. I was unable to complete my college education because of my growing inability to read, learn, and remember. I have since learned to skim and grasp concepts, but not remember details. I once acted as a research assistant to an investigative psychopharmacologist in NYC. I learned a lot by talking to doctors and their staff. I haven't worked since 1990. Hopefully, that will change sometime soon.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on April 20, 2006, at 0:41:27
In reply to Re: UPDATE DAY 3 -- » Phillipa, posted by SLS on April 16, 2006, at 13:55:22
Scott me too. What do you do now with your time? That's a big problem for me. Love Phillipa
Posted by MARTY on April 20, 2006, at 0:41:27
In reply to Re: UPDATE DAY 3 --, posted by SLS on April 16, 2006, at 12:51:33
I now understand why you invest yourself so much into Wellbutrin.
While looking at your cocktail the first think I though is why you dont increase your Lamictal to increase your chance of making Wellbutrin working for you.
I heard more than one time that some people that wasn't able to support Wellbutrin (effect not stable, inducing anxiety, agraving social phobia) was having good result in retrial after taking/increasing Lamictal.
I myself will, in time, retry wellbutrin now that I taking Lamictal, and at a very effective dose.. I take 150 BID.
BTW, even at 150 Lamictal antidepressant effect wasn't very impressive if detectable at all. But 300mg is totally another story. I something feel that it is the only thing that keeps me out of depression.
PS: Feels weird to try giving you advice since you know much more than me :P But.. I dare because I care and I feel you're not the narcissic kind. And who knows...
Marty> Currently:
>
> nortriptyline 100mg
> Wellbutrin XL 300mg
> Lamictal 100mg
> Abilify 10mg
>
> Anxiety is not a big problem, as I have learned how to deal with it psychologically. I prefer not to take drugs to treat it. When the depression remits, so does the social anxiety.
>
> My response to MAOIs is only partial and inadequate.
>
> Provigil made my depression worse.
>
> Amphetamine works for only a few days.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by SLS on April 20, 2006, at 0:41:27
In reply to Re: UPDATE DAY 3 -- » SLS, posted by MARTY on April 16, 2006, at 14:54:39
Hi Marty.
Whenever I raise the dosage of Lamictal, I suffer impairments of memory and cognition.
I was actually thinking about stopping the Lamictal to see whether I really need it or not. After reading your post, I may reconsider. I appreciate your input.
Thanks.
- Scott> I now understand why you invest yourself so much into Wellbutrin.
>
> While looking at your cocktail the first think I though is why you dont increase your Lamictal to increase your chance of making Wellbutrin working for you.
>
> I heard more than one time that some people that wasn't able to support Wellbutrin (effect not stable, inducing anxiety, agraving social phobia) was having good result in retrial after taking/increasing Lamictal.
>
> I myself will, in time, retry wellbutrin now that I taking Lamictal, and at a very effective dose.. I take 150 BID.
>
> BTW, even at 150 Lamictal antidepressant effect wasn't very impressive if detectable at all. But 300mg is totally another story. I something feel that it is the only thing that keeps me out of depression.
>
> PS: Feels weird to try giving you advice since you know much more than me :P But.. I dare because I care and I feel you're not the narcissic kind. And who knows...
>
>
> Marty
>
> > Currently:
> >
> > nortriptyline 100mg
> > Wellbutrin XL 300mg
> > Lamictal 100mg
> > Abilify 10mg
> >
> > Anxiety is not a big problem, as I have learned how to deal with it psychologically. I prefer not to take drugs to treat it. When the depression remits, so does the social anxiety.
> >
> > My response to MAOIs is only partial and inadequate.
> >
> > Provigil made my depression worse.
> >
> > Amphetamine works for only a few days.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
Posted by Phillipa on April 20, 2006, at 0:41:27
In reply to Re: UPDATE DAY 3 -- » MARTY, posted by SLS on April 16, 2006, at 15:22:24
Scott you know as an observation you are now posting all the time so you must be feeling better. At least I hope you do. Love Jan
Posted by SLS on April 20, 2006, at 0:41:28
In reply to Re: UPDATE DAY 3 -- » SLS, posted by Phillipa on April 16, 2006, at 15:37:17
> Scott you know as an observation you are now posting all the time so you must be feeling better. At least I hope you do. Love Jan
Thanks.
I wish I were well enough to be more engaged IRL. I doubt I will be posting as much once I am. I guess there is a biphasic pattern to posting based upon the changing severity of illness.
- Scott
Posted by Crazy Horse on April 20, 2006, at 0:41:28
In reply to Re: UPDATE DAY 3 -- » Phillipa, posted by SLS on April 16, 2006, at 13:55:22
>
> I wish I could say that I was in some type of work. I was unable to complete my college education because of my growing inability to read, learn, and remember. I have since learned to skim and grasp concepts, but not remember details. I once acted as a research assistant to an investigative psychopharmacologist in NYC. I learned a lot by talking to doctors and their staff. I haven't worked since 1990. Hopefully, that will change sometime soon.
>
>
> - Scott
This illness stole my College degree as well. I was just starting my Senior year when all hell broke loose. I never had the confidence or felt well enough to return. I too had to go on disability 8 yrs. ago.
Scott, if you don't mind me asking, how old are you? I am 47. Also, it sounds as if you have been suffering for a long time, with no remission at all. Dang, there's got to be something out there that can help you?? Have you considered the patch?
Scott, as you know, i always compliment you about your psychopharmacology knowledge...but i can tell you are a very nice and caring individual, which to me is more impt. than being "smart" :) It saddens me that you aren't well and haven't felt well for quite some time. Please keep fighting Scott, see different doctor's for different opinions, etc. I will be praying for you daily Scott-May God bless you and give you strength!Sincerely,
-Crazy Horse/Tyler
Posted by SLS on April 20, 2006, at 0:42:48
In reply to Re: UPDATE DAY 3 -- » SLS, posted by Crazy Horse on April 16, 2006, at 22:16:06
Thanks, Tyler.
:-)
My depression became severe in 1977. With the exception of a 6-month period in 1987, I have been continually depressed. I am 46.
- Scott
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