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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 31 to 55 of 175. Go back in thread:
Posted by jujube on January 20, 2005, at 10:57:29
In reply to Re: Opinions on AA?, posted by just so sad on January 20, 2005, at 10:36:30
It's me again. We "chatted" on the Social Board. As I mentioned, like you, I self-medicated with alcohol, among other things, for many years. I started drinking and smoking drugs when I was 15, and alcohol fast became the answer to my social anxiety problems. In my early 30s, after years of drinking and partying, I accepted that I had a problem and finally did something about it. Like you, I had previously tried to "control" my drinking, but once I had convinced myself that I could control and limit my drinking for a period of time (3 months at a time), I would slip back into my old pattern of drinking. It eventually took its toll on me, both physically and emotionally, and I finally accepted the fact that I could not drink like normal people. Anyways, that was over 8.5 years ago and it hasn't been that bad.
I hope you will find some comfort and support here at Babble.
My thoughts are with you. Take care.
> Well, this is my first post to this board. I just signed up yesterday, and posted on the social board. I started effexor 37.5 mg for depression about 10 days ago, and was wondering if there were any others like me, who were self-medicating with alcohol. It was recommended I visit this board, and boy, what relief to find you! I admire those of you who have quit for days at a time. I go one or two, max, then all my resolve is gone. I have started with an addictions counsellor/group awareness series, but part of me still can't believe I have a problem and that with a little more willpower and less depression I wouldn't need my daily fix (or bottle) of wine. I have cut down tremendously as now I'm on the effexor it's a bad mix, but haven't gone 3 days sober yet. Thanks for sharing everyone - you give me hope. PS my immediate family is aware that I am committed to controlling my drinking, and that I may have to quit altogether (aakk!)
Posted by Lee05 on January 21, 2005, at 0:59:17
In reply to Re: Opinions on AA?, posted by just so sad on January 20, 2005, at 10:36:30
> Well, this is my first post to this board. I just signed up yesterday, and posted on the social board. I started effexor 37.5 mg for depression about 10 days ago, and was wondering if there were any others like me, who were self-medicating with alcohol. It was recommended I visit this board, and boy, what relief to find you! I admire those of you who have quit for days at a time. I go one or two, max, then all my resolve is gone. I have started with an addictions counsellor/group awareness series, but part of me still can't believe I have a problem and that with a little more willpower and less depression I wouldn't need my daily fix (or bottle) of wine. I have cut down tremendously as now I'm on the effexor it's a bad mix, but haven't gone 3 days sober yet. Thanks for sharing everyone - you give me hope. PS my immediate family is aware that I am committed to controlling my drinking, and that I may have to quit altogether (aakk!)
*****
I started taking effexor two years ago, and am now on a dose of 225 mg. Unfortunately, even though I knew combining alcohol with my meds was really bad, I just couldn't stay sober for more than a short time and couldn't bring myself to ask for help. So basically, for the past couple of years, I've taken my anti-depressants with a mega-chaser of pure depressant (makes perfect sense, don't you think?).
Today is day 17 sober for me as I try to tackle quitting again--this time asking for (and thankfully getting) as much help as I can. FYI, because of how much and how long I was drinking, when I suddenly quit, I really threw my med dosage out of whack and got a pretty nasty jolt side effects--something to be aware of if you decide to quit altogether. Anyway, glad you found this site--there's alot of support here.
By the way everyone, I found my nerve and went to my first AA meeting tonight. Scared as hell at first, but quickly became comfortable just being with a group of people I didn't have to pretend with--I'll be going back.
Thx all,
Lee
Posted by just so sad on January 21, 2005, at 9:26:01
In reply to Re: Opinions on AA?, posted by Lee05 on January 21, 2005, at 0:59:17
Thanks everyone for your caring responses. Had a meeting with the awareness group last night - I feel stronger today, maybe also because I didn't drink last night, but yesterday I was in a total funk - no motivation or energy. Will probably have to up my dosage of effexor to 75 mg, which is depressing in itself. And here comes the weekend...always the hardest time not to kick back with a bottle of my fav. red wine...oh well, wish me luck.
Posted by AuntieMel on January 21, 2005, at 14:02:31
In reply to Re: Opinions on AA?, posted by Lee05 on January 21, 2005, at 0:59:17
Good Job Lee! The first one is the hardest.
17 days - each one a miracle.
Posted by jujube on January 21, 2005, at 14:19:09
In reply to Re: Opinions on AA?, posted by Lee05 on January 21, 2005, at 0:59:17
Bravo Lee! Give yourself a much deserved pat on the back. You are doing great - one day at a time!
Posted by jujube on January 21, 2005, at 15:28:38
In reply to Re: Opinions on AA?, posted by just so sad on January 21, 2005, at 9:26:01
I am glad that you are feeling stronger today. It isn't always going to be easy, especially in the beginning, but as the days go by, you will probably find yourself feeling better and stronger, both physically and emotionally. Don't beat yourself up about having to increase your dose of Effexor, it is nothing to be ashamed of. In the early days of my sobriety, I went on Paxil, and it was the best thing I ever did. I stayed on Paxil for a number of years because of life-long anxiety issues (both social and general) that I had previously dealt with with alcohol and drugs.
At first, I found the weekends hard because I was always out partying and drinking with friends, usually from Thursday till Sunday. So, for a little while at least, I had to stay away from certain friends until I felt somewhat comfortable with my sobriety and the limitations I had to put on myself in certain social situations. It was during this time that I found AA particularly helpful. You can always find a meeting any day or night of the week, and people usually do something after the meeting to be social. I met some really nice people and ended up having fun without alcohol. There is no doubt, however, that it was an adjustment, but a refreshing one nonetheless.Anyways, take care of yourself. And, if you are finding the weekend difficult, I would me more than happy to chat with you.
> Thanks everyone for your caring responses. Had a meeting with the awareness group last night - I feel stronger today, maybe also because I didn't drink last night, but yesterday I was in a total funk - no motivation or energy. Will probably have to up my dosage of effexor to 75 mg, which is depressing in itself. And here comes the weekend...always the hardest time not to kick back with a bottle of my fav. red wine...oh well, wish me luck.
Posted by mattsit on January 24, 2005, at 16:50:11
In reply to Also..., posted by Lee05 on January 15, 2005, at 14:11:52
I thnk it could definitely still be withdrawal 11 days later depending how long you were drinking, amount, etc. It can take weeks and months to return to "normal."
The good news is you can return to normal, the key is seriously avoidance. Remember, you're more sensitive to your body because your nervous system and other systems are tyring to even themselves out....they swing too far the other way before you "stablalize" your systems.
Just avoid the drinks.
Posted by Lee05 on January 24, 2005, at 23:28:44
In reply to Re: Also..., posted by mattsit on January 24, 2005, at 16:50:11
> I thnk it could definitely still be withdrawal 11 days later depending how long you were drinking, amount, etc. It can take weeks and months to return to "normal."
>
> The good news is you can return to normal, the key is seriously avoidance. Remember, you're more sensitive to your body because your nervous system and other systems are tyring to even themselves out....they swing too far the other way before you "stablalize" your systems.
>
> Just avoid the drinks.
Thanks for the info. You know, I'm now 20 days sober and it's just the past two days that I've completely lost that dizziness--not nearly as bad though. I'm now starting to feel much better, thank god.I went to another AA meeting tonight (a different one) and just fell in love with the people there. This was much younger group than my first one, and I felt much more comfortable.
I feel good tonight. I know that the way I feel each day is going to range from really great to really rotten, and everything inbetween. I hope that during the really rotten ones, I can remember how good the really great one tonight felt.
Hope you're all safe and sober tonight--take care.
Lee
Posted by AuntieMel on January 26, 2005, at 16:07:34
In reply to Re: Also..., posted by Lee05 on January 24, 2005, at 23:28:44
20 days is great. Just a few days away from a 30 day chip, right? There's something magical about the first one - such a feeling of accomplishment.
And it is accomplishment. The first 30 days are the toughest. Not to say that it's easy coasting after that, but it does get better.
Just keep you guard up. There's always a little voice inside your head that will try to convince you that a) you're not going to make it, or b) you're cured and can go back to social drinking. Don't believe it - it's the addiction tiger.
Once a pickle, always a pickle.
Posted by Lee05 on January 27, 2005, at 14:33:43
In reply to Good job. » Lee05, posted by AuntieMel on January 26, 2005, at 16:07:34
> 20 days is great. Just a few days away from a 30 day chip, right? There's something magical about the first one - such a feeling of accomplishment.
>
> And it is accomplishment. The first 30 days are the toughest. Not to say that it's easy coasting after that, but it does get better.
>
> Just keep you guard up. There's always a little voice inside your head that will try to convince you that a) you're not going to make it, or b) you're cured and can go back to social drinking. Don't believe it - it's the addiction tiger.
>
> Once a pickle, always a pickle.Thanks so much Auntie Mel,
I'm feeling pretty good about those (23 now) days. This is the first time asking for help in my efforts to get and stay sober, and I'm absolutely overwhelmed at the support I've received. I stopped trying to hide my alcoholism and got really honest with my family, close friends, significant other and doctor about it all--not an easy thing to do, but such a relief once I had done it. Not only have they personally been there for me, but they've directed me to other avenues of support as well. I've found an AA group that I really like, and I'm also going to be starting a program to learn some new coping skills for depression and alcoholism.
I feel much more optimistic this time about staying sober than I ever have before. But I have to say, every now and then that addiction tiger you mentioned shows its face and a horrible thought creeps in...I'm doing everything I know how to do to make this work--what if it doesn't? What the hell do I do then? Doing my best get rid of (or at least ignore) thoughts like that.
Thanks again for all your support Auntie Mel.
Lee
Posted by jujube on January 27, 2005, at 15:00:14
In reply to Re: Good job. » AuntieMel, posted by Lee05 on January 27, 2005, at 14:33:43
I feel much more optimistic this time about staying sober than I ever have before. But I have to say, every now and then that addiction tiger you mentioned shows its face and a horrible thought creeps in...I'm doing everything I know how to do to make this work--what if it doesn't? What the hell do I do then? Doing my best get rid of (or at least ignore) thoughts like that.
Lee,-- You are doing great, and you should be very proud of yourself. This is a one day at a time journey, and you need to celebrate each day you are sober and do your best not dwell on the "what ifs". There were times during the early stages of my sobriety that I struggled with the same thoughts as you. They are not easy, and, yes, they can consume you and can fill you with self-doubt. When I had what I considered self-defeating thoughts, I would do my best to keep myself occupied, but, more importantly, I would remind myself what my life was like before I stopped drinking (the physical discomfort, the emotional pain, and the sense of isolation and allienation that pervaded my life even when I was surrounded by friends and others) and I would think about people I had heard speak/share at AA meetings I had been to who had lost so much (job, friends, family and more) and it would make the choice a no-brainer for me.
As they say in AA, take it easy. Be good to you and remember, "The ox is slow, but the earth is patient".
Tamara
Posted by AuntieMel on January 28, 2005, at 17:21:21
In reply to Re: Good job. » AuntieMel, posted by Lee05 on January 27, 2005, at 14:33:43
So, what happens if you slip? You do it again, and again.
I know people that took several times to "get it right" and I know people that slipped after 23 years. So what! We're all human.
One tip - when you start to think how good that drink might taste, picture it in your head - but think it all the way through until you remember the vomiting, the headache, the disappointment you and you family will feel. And don't forget the first week or two of drying out while you're at it.
If you can picture it all the way through, you won't take the drink.
Posted by adagiolover1 on January 30, 2005, at 11:17:10
In reply to Re: Opinions on AA? » Lee05, posted by partlycloudy on January 16, 2005, at 7:25:31
> It's a place that makes me cry because I see myself in each and every person in the room.
> It's a place that frightens me because I don't think I know how to place my trust in that Higher Power.
> It's a place that I am grateful will welcome me back as many times as it takes.
> It's a place that disgusts me when I see fragile and vulnerable people be victimized by those who come to the meetings for the wrong reasons.
> Every single meeting is different from one at another location.
>Ah, I am familiar with those feelings, though admittedly they are many years in the past. for you I would try to ignore the 'victimisation' that you see in the rooms of recovery for now.
When you are stronger, and have a better sense of yourself, perhaps this is something you will tackle on a one to one basis, because in truth we can not change the nature of others. This is a good example of where acceptance is helpful, indeed paramount.AA literally gave me my life back, after some 40 yrs of chaos. I am so NOT the person I was when I started, but so MUCH closer to being the person I always wanted to be.
good luck, and be patient with yourself.
Posted by partlycloudy on January 31, 2005, at 9:29:50
In reply to Re: Opinions on AA? » partlycloudy, posted by adagiolover1 on January 30, 2005, at 11:17:10
Posted by joeblow on February 3, 2005, at 22:42:39
In reply to NEW -?s help re: alcohol withdrawal (long,sorry), posted by marjorie on January 4, 2005, at 12:50:52
Well, I currently am a drinker (a little over a pint of 80 proof every two days) and I can know how it goes. I went to AA and it didn't do anything for me. Nada. The strange thing is honestly I was delivered from all drugs about twenty years ago including pot smoking and cigs. Some guys from a church prayed for me and I never did any illegal drug or smoked cigs again.
Now I was able for many years to only binge drink 3 times a year and no more but after coming off of Celexa for three years (about two years ago) I've had a drinking problem of a pint of hard 80 proof alcohol every two days. Studied Celexa afterwards and discovered that it probably is the culprit. Heavy drinking only kicked in on and after Celexa use got underway (say after months of 20mg of Celexa a day). It helped to solve my anxiety breakdown (I fully recovered) but turned a borderline binge drinker into a heavy drinker I believe.
Good luck to you though. Peace.
> Hi -- I am extremely new to this, and in fact, I still can't even really believe I'm doing this. Part of me still doesn't really want to admit that I have a problem with alcohol. But the rational part of my brain knows that I do and that it's not good for me and that I need to take steps to do something about it.
>
> I stumbled on this board by accident when I was still toying with the idea of accepting that I have a problem, and in reading some of the posts I came across, it hit me pretty hard that when some of you describe yourselves and the way you drink and what you are going through, you are describing me. That was pretty hard to dismiss. I think it really helped me to be able to be an "outside observer" and read about real people who are having some of the same real problems that I am having and I finally came to the conclusion that if you have found the strength to do something about it, then I can too.
>
> Therefore, I want to post here myself and say thank you to those of you who have already helped me without even knowing it. I would very much like to become part of this community and continue to benefit from your support and experience and hopefully be able to provide some of it myself at some point.
>
> I am a 32 year old wife and mother and a secret drinker. Over the course of the last few years I have gone from being a "social" drinker, to being pretty much dependent on drinking every day. I recognize now that it started out as a way to numb myself to stressful things that were going on in my life, but then everything became an excuse to drink. Drink because I'm happy, drink because I'm unhappy, drink because I'm stressed, drink because I'm with a group, drink because I'm alone, etc. There was no end in sight.
>
> I can tell that this is beginning to have an effect on both my physical and mental health, as well as being quite expensive. I have managed to keep my drinking a secret so I don't want to depend on my friends and family for support, mainly because I'm embarassed.
>
> Today is Day 3 for me, and so far, I feel pretty good. I have had some moments that have been scary, and one thing I would like to know is whether or not some of the symptoms I have been having are caused by alcohol withdrawal or something else. The reason I ask is that I am surrounded by people who have the flu, and I don't know if I'm getting it too. I don't really think so though, because my symptoms are mostly different from theirs.
>
> Thankfully, I have not yet craved a drink. In fact, the thought of drinking turns me off right now. I have had steady headaches, but they are relieved by ipubrofen. I have had what I imagine must be "hot flashes", where all of a sudden I feel like I'm going to catch on fire. I sweat and become short of breath when this happens. I go stand under the fan and it usually goes away in ten or fifteen minutes. I have had insomnia, but I had that before. I don't have the bladder and kidney discomfort that I used to have all the time. I do find that I have more frequent bowel movements. I have moments of irritability, but I had those before. One time, late yesterday, Day 2, I had an extremely dizzy spell that scared me, but it probably lasted only a minute or so.
>
> Is any of this anything to be alarmed about, or is it all par for the course? What else can I expect? What should worry me and what shouldn't? What are some of the things that I can do when these things happen? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
>
> I have some more of my story to share and some more questions I would like to ask, but I think I'll stop for now since this is already so long and see what kind of response, if any, I get. Thank you for reading all of this, and again, any help at all would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Marjorie
Posted by adagiolover1 on February 4, 2005, at 8:18:17
In reply to NEW -?s help re: alcohol withdrawal (long,sorry), posted by marjorie on January 4, 2005, at 12:50:52
> Therefore, I want to post here myself and say thank you to those of you who have already helped me without even knowing it. I would very much like to become part of this community and continue to benefit from your support and experience and hopefully be able to provide some of it myself at some point.
>
>>>
> Today is Day 3 for me, and so far, I feel pretty good. I have had some moments that have been scary, and one thing I would like to know is whether or not some of the symptoms I have been having are caused by alcohol withdrawal or something else. The reason I ask is that I am surrounded by people who have the flu, and I don't know if I'm getting it too. I don't really think so though, because my symptoms are mostly different from theirs.
>
> Thankfully, I have not yet craved a drink. In fact, the thought of drinking turns me off right now. I have had steady headaches, but they are relieved by ipubrofen. I have had what I imagine must be "hot flashes", where all of a sudden I feel like I'm going to catch on fire. I sweat and become short of breath when this happens. I go stand under the fan and it usually goes away in ten or fifteen minutes. I have had insomnia, but I had that before. I don't have the bladder and kidney discomfort that I used to have all the time. I do find that I have more frequent bowel movements. I have moments of irritability, but I had those before. One time, late yesterday, Day 2, I had an extremely dizzy spell that scared me, but it probably lasted only a minute or so.
>
> Is any of this anything to be alarmed about, or is it all par for the course? What else can I expect? What should worry me and what shouldn't? What are some of the things that I can do when these things happen? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Marjorie
heh heh, I must have subscribed to this thread on accident, as a letter notifying me of a response to it was there this morning when I signed on. I am sure you have gotten lots of good responses, I will add mine briefly:
Those DT's and other withdrawal symptoms are hell...I went thru them several times in my 20 yr drinking career. Personally, I was never able to sustain the 'quit' alone, as once the physical symptoms subsided, the craving was there, the mental obsession.
But it's now 7 plus years sober, and my life has been more good than I would have ever guessed, even the sad and bad things. I hope at this point, over a month sober, that you, marjorie, are finding your way, but not alone.....good luck to you.
Posted by adagiolover1 on February 4, 2005, at 8:21:56
In reply to Re: NEW -?s help re: alcohol withdrawal (long,sorry), posted by joeblow on February 3, 2005, at 22:42:39
Hi Joeblow....I too sustained many years without overt drinking/using after a conversion experience. But, I was never happy the years I didnt drink, and I certainly wasnt in the years I did.
I felt that going all those years without a drink or a drug proved I was not an alcoholic.heh heh. it is patient. it will wait for the perfect time. Celexa does not cause alcoholism.
I hope sincerely that you are able to come to terms with a way of life that is more than likely not too satisfying for you. My heart goes out to you...
Posted by AuntieMel on February 7, 2005, at 15:31:38
In reply to Re: Good job. » Lee05, posted by AuntieMel on January 28, 2005, at 17:21:21
You still around? How is it going?
We care.
Posted by Lee05 on February 7, 2005, at 19:16:38
In reply to Re: Lee???, posted by AuntieMel on February 7, 2005, at 15:31:38
> You still around? How is it going?
>
> We care.Hi Auntie Mel,
Thanks for checking up on me. I'm doing fine--just been feeling a little low key lately. My apologies for not letting y'all know how I'm doing. 34 days sober today, and feeling pretty good. I'm going to my AA meetings, although to date I haven't been able to get myself up to the podium to share yet--still just trying to get comfortable with being there. My therapy group on depression starts this week--a little apprehensive because I'm not sure what to expect, but also looking forward to it.
I've been pretty thankful for your advice many times over the last little while. The weather has been spring-like, and I've come home from work really wanting to just sit outside in the sun with a glass of wine. But I was able to wind forward a bit on the picture and remind myself 1) it's never just one glass, or even just one bottle for that matter, and 2) how hard I've worked for each and every one of these past 34 days.
Still hanging in one day at a time--thanks for not letting go :)
Lee
Posted by antigua on February 8, 2005, at 9:49:44
In reply to Re: Lee??? » AuntieMel, posted by Lee05 on February 7, 2005, at 19:16:38
34 days is a long time, and it may be some of the hardest days you'll have to go through (it was for me!) I still want to sit outside and drink that wine, but I know I'll mess it up.I think about it less often when I get more days. But I'm always thinking..
Keep posting!
antigua
Posted by AuntieMel on February 8, 2005, at 11:37:42
In reply to Re: Lee??? » AuntieMel, posted by Lee05 on February 7, 2005, at 19:16:38
Wonderful work!
Did you get your 30 day chip yet? Carrying it around in a pocket and reaching for it in moments of weakness helps, too.
It's getting towards spring here, too. Coming up quickly (valentine's day) on time to prune the roses. Which also means time to do the other spring bits and prepare for planting more goodies in the garden.
Of course, gardening season used to mean sitting outside with a beer after the day's work, but a glass of iced tea works too.
only 25 days more for the 60 day chip. right?
Posted by jujube on February 8, 2005, at 15:53:27
In reply to Re: Lee??? » AuntieMel, posted by Lee05 on February 7, 2005, at 19:16:38
34 days - that is great! Give yourself a pat on the back and a big, loving hug. And, don't worry about having not gone up to the podium yet. There's no rush. You will know when you are ready. In the meantime, keep reaching out. There's support here, in the good times and the bad.
Be good to yourself and take good care.
(((Lee)))
Posted by AuntieMel on February 9, 2005, at 13:07:09
In reply to Re: Lee??? » AuntieMel, posted by Lee05 on February 7, 2005, at 19:16:38
Hah! I haven't done that either. I've been called on to comment from my seat, but that's it - and I plan for it to stay that way.
Posted by sjb on February 10, 2005, at 8:50:17
In reply to Re: NEW -?s help re: alcohol withdrawal (long,sorry), posted by joeblow on February 3, 2005, at 22:42:39
joeblow,
It's time the mental health professionals address the incresed cravings and consumption of alcohol, at least in part, with certain ADs.
Disclaimer: I drank quite heavily and frequently before starting ADs and I am by no means blaming my drinking problem entirely on the meds.
However, in the past 9 years during which I've taken over 25 different ADs, I have noticed marked difference in my craving for drink. Some meds killed the desire all together (what was that now?), and others started me down the road again of alcohol abuse after months of teetotaling. My worst offendors were Effexor and Wellbutrin.This is obviously not a wise and healthy combo, and at the time I first mentioned to my PDoc at the time, it was dismissed out of hand.
Posted by sjb on February 10, 2005, at 8:51:15
In reply to Re: NEW -?s help re: alcohol withdrawal (long,sorry), posted by joeblow on February 3, 2005, at 22:42:39
joeblow,
It's time the mental health professionals address the incresed cravings and consumption of alcohol, at least in part, with certain ADs.
Disclaimer: I drank quite heavily and frequently before starting ADs and I am by no means blaming my drinking problem entirely on the meds.
However, in the past 9 years during which I've taken over 25 different ADs, I have noticed marked difference in my craving for drink. Some meds killed the desire all together (what was that now?), and others started me down the road again of alcohol abuse after months of teetotaling. My worst offendors were Effexor and Wellbutrin.This is obviously not a wise and healthy combo, and at the time I first mentioned to my PDoc at the time, it was dismissed out of hand.
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