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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 45 to 69 of 84. Go back in thread:
Posted by arrie on June 24, 2004, at 10:46:54
In reply to Re: MEDICATION ASSISTED W/D W/BUPE 2 THUMBS UP » so far so good, posted by so far so good on June 24, 2004, at 8:49:34
Well, I took it too. this is a problem because
opiates do seem to work on depression, but they can turn around and bite you in the ass too after awhile. But the more I read about some ssri's its hard to have peace of mind taking those too long term, maybe short term for ajump start.
Posted by so far so good on June 24, 2004, at 23:24:15
In reply to Re: MEDICATION ASSISTED W/D W/BUPE 2 THUMBS UP » so far so good, posted by so far so good on June 24, 2004, at 8:49:34
I have added checking and listing my info on this forum to my things to do . Today was a lazy day.Watched Miracle good movie . Out of valium out of restoril . Not much in the department of feeling shitty just unmotivated and tense . Who isnt. Well I called the detox center today for more restoril(sleepers)witch I got , and some more valium (gave me 1 10 mg for the day and said I had to come see the shrink for more tomarrow )If he feels Its needed. I have no problem with that. Im starting naltrexone as well. It is an opiate antaganist. (you take opiates you dont get high and will likely feel really shitty). It is also suppose to help with cravings.From everything I read its a good thing mild side effects unless you got a bad liver and for opiate abstinence keep it 50 mg or under . Ive read for alcohol and obesity ? It can be as much as 150mg. This is the dose that is bad for your liver.I really think the valium has helped me immensley with all this cravings,anxiety,tensness, I guess just stress in general.I take them as prescribed 10 mg daily when I feel the need .Valium has a long half life . It stays in you for a while .I would like just ten more or so.I have no plans to attemted to stay on this long term. See what the shrink says. Long term valium usage is not really a good thing. Honestley I dont get high of the recommended dosage . I function great. I got alot of shit going on besides this plan anyways ,normal everyday life problems.jj.Im 15-16 days off any opiates. I really can not sleep,tues. I was up and down like 8 times in 7 hours of attempted sleep. Sucks, wake up feeling like I had no sleep. Last night wends. at work (I work 24 hour shifts) I got like 3 hours broken sleep. running calls all day and night. I only used .1 clonidine @ 10;00pm due to a general feeling of anxiety late in the day(mid day valium would have prevented this but i was out ).Its strange Ive heard it can take several weeks for w/d to fully go away( just mild stuff) . I notice runny nose the other stuff from above and I get a chuckle when I look in the mirror and my pupes are blown occassionaly.(. Clonidine does help with w/d symtoms and a little with the tensness, but by the time you take enough of it for tensness its hard to keep your eyes open. Well Thats my storie and Im sticking to It . Feel free to ask any questions and once again I hope someone is helped by this .
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 25, 2004, at 4:48:45
In reply to Re: MEDICATION ASSISTED W/D W/BUPE 2 THUMBS UP, posted by so far so good on June 24, 2004, at 23:24:15
> I HAVE ... FELT LIKE SH[*]T
>
> sofarsogood> those [*]ssholes, dont watch the news, its such a trigger.
>
> arrieSorry to be such a prude, but please don't use language that could offend others.
If you have any questions or comments about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
or redirect a follow-up to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Chuckie on June 25, 2004, at 11:30:42
In reply to Re: MEDICATION ASSISTED W/D W/BUPE 2 THUMBS UP » so far so good, posted by so far so good on June 24, 2004, at 8:49:34
> Opiates do not treat depression they cover it
> up by making you feel good.That is a matter of some acrimony and hurt feelings, even here where we have the good Doctor requiring people not to be acrimonious and not to hurt people's feelings.
"Do your homework" is sound advice, but it's wasted on me since my whole life has been one big long homework. If you wish to do some homework, you can start here:
http://opioids.com/buprenorphine/buprefdep.html
...That's a synopsis. If you're interested i can probably provide a week's worth of homework. And here is just one of many threads on the subject at Dr. Bob's place:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20011015/msgs/81414.html
-Chuckie
Posted by arrie on June 25, 2004, at 19:37:32
In reply to Re: MEDICATION ASSISTED W/D W/BUPE 2 THUMBS UP » so far so good, posted by Chuckie on June 25, 2004, at 11:30:42
sorry guys, i know its tough but you both sound a little "grumpy" shall we say. As if ya needed to hear that.....hang in there. On a scale of one to 10, how would you rate how you feel now, compared to when you were using? Sofar, it sounds like you have WD symptoms, whats up with that,you should be A ok, how much Bup are you on now, Chuckie what are you taking now? I thought the other site had lots of good info and diverse as well concerning case historys.
Dr. Bob I am sorry, that is the last time I will try to get one by you, you are winning the war on potty mouths. Take care Guys and good job, I will be joining the Bup team in about 2 weeks so, remember youre my inspiration
Arrie
Posted by arrie on June 25, 2004, at 19:42:50
In reply to Re: MEDICATION ASSISTED W/D W/BUPE 2 THUMBS UP, posted by so far so good on June 24, 2004, at 23:24:15
Just an fyi, I took Valium for years for spastic colon, just decided one day to quit, did not have one single problem bada-bing gone. It made me sleepy and I think if you are like me the draw to these meds was not sleepiness but the perk up good feeling, so I would not worry too much about the Valium, geeez get way past the monster first, then worry about the little pests.
Posted by so far so good on June 27, 2004, at 9:26:57
In reply to sofar: about Valium, posted by arrie on June 25, 2004, at 19:42:50
I went to see the shrink . I pleaded my case. I was looking for only a week or two more supply. I told him I had no intention of using it long term . I could tell he was on the fence whether to give it to me or not.He suggested vistoril
?. @ this time I dont know anything about (I will soon ). I responded . " I do not want to get into taking anyother meds that I have never taking before ,especialy with me starting the naltrexone. The valium is working wonders for me. I also explained to him I am aware that valium is not a long term answere for the problems I am still having(anxious,irritable stressed out.(from this stuff or life stuff)and that I was fully aware of the potential abuse of valium if taking more than prescibed.If thats what I wanted I could go around the block and get a hand full of valium xanax, or whatever .I also reminded him of his initial plan to not make any adjustments to the current med plan until our follow up in mid July. I could tell ,with my addiction Hx he did not want to give me any valium but he did .To be honest yesterday(work day) and so far today have been good. I have a follow up july 9,to develope the post w/d, detox, get to the root of the evil stay clean plan. Well I am happy to have the valium it really does help. Well Thats it. . I feel myself (opiate free) coming back and people who know me and know all this ,are noticing it as well.Still no opiate use .20 days or so i guess. Wuish me well . Again Hope this is helpfull.
Posted by so far so good on June 27, 2004, at 9:51:15
In reply to sofar: about Valium, posted by arrie on June 25, 2004, at 19:42:50
Dont get me started dude .Lets be nice . If I came off brash I apologize.Chuck.My home work has been my own past,the Past of many close friends whos problems were ten fold of mine including problems you seem to be facing. Who better to ask about space or the way the earth from space looks than the astronauts?I have dealt with this type of shit since my memory will alow me too.Past down generation to generation. Must be in the blood.:) Including a step father thrown in the mix with over medicating/alcohol abuse and a insuline dependent diabetic you wanna see bi-polar? .I have also done reading up on things that cross my mind as well as talking to many mental health?addiction staff. I was not trying to insult you . Hang in there dude. Please checking a few web sites and a small majority view of opiates being the only "cure" for some peoples deppression.Just isnt my thing . You know whats good for you. Im telling whats working for me and what makes sense based upon my findings and guidance.Be good and farewell for now.
Posted by Chuckie on June 27, 2004, at 16:10:35
In reply to chuck opiates for deppression ?, posted by so far so good on June 27, 2004, at 9:51:15
> Please checking a few web sites and a small
> majority view of opiates being the only "cure"
> for some peoples deppression.Just isnt my thingIf it's not your thing and you don't feel like investigating, then don't offer your unconcerned and unresearched opinions. I don't appreciate your sarcasm.
Wow, you ask to be nice and then you're not nice, and you say no insult intended, followed by an insult. Add that all up and it zeros out so thanks for nothing.
-Chuckie
Posted by Chuckie on June 27, 2004, at 16:20:04
In reply to You both sound grumpy, posted by arrie on June 25, 2004, at 19:37:32
Hey Arrie,
Sorry, i might have been grumpy. But it's a grumpy subject so i might have just been grumpy with SoFar for interjecting the opinion that i've heard way too many times.
I might get booted out now for my grumpiness. In any case, please report here your experience with Bupe. The whole thing... how did you find a doctor, what is your doc's procedures and policies, how much does your medication cost, etc etc. Because apparently i lucked into one of the easier paradigms, and the way it all went for me isn't what people should expect. But i do know i would have liked more information before i went into it all so the more the better. So far i think there's only two relatively complete stories, mine and BupeFan's.
Thanks and GL
-Chuckie
Posted by arrie on June 27, 2004, at 20:38:39
In reply to Re: You both sound grumpy » arrie, posted by Chuckie on June 27, 2004, at 16:20:04
Hi guys, youre both doing great but have a different set of problems, opinions. You are both way ahead of me as i am not even OFF the opiates yet. See bup dr july 9 and am trying to taper off as much as I can before that appt. Chuckie, I appreciate your sentiment on the value of opiates with depression, same situation here. Just a cruel twist that it is hard to do long term otherwise we would not be in this boat, that other web site i posted has tons of people on it that agree with you, but until the day comes that an opiate is marketed and tweeked for use in chronic depression we are (sol). I am in a big city Chuckie and went thru tooooo many exasperating phone calls to docs about bup, they even had the waiver from SAMSA and still did not know anything about it, the only way they would offer it was in a methodone clinic and "program", no thanks, most people make me feel really uncomfortable and I sure dont need a 20 something drug counselor trying to get into my head which I understand perfectly. This is like giving up candy, I just plain like it, I have pain and depression and the med makes me feel normal, I refuse to accept there is one thing wrong with that, it is just long term tolerance and the body cant do this forever it is that simple, i dont think I am mixed up at. If I were I would just keep taking the stuff not be looking for help. I am ticked, really ticked, I have to go out of town to get help. I will be going to a hick town in the middle of nowhere and have to stay in a hotel for about 5 nites during the week I see him. Good news is he went to Harvard, bad news he's an Arab, but I can deal with that, wish they were not chopping heads off though now, hope he doesnt wear a turban. But the guy knows his stuff and the american docs wanted to be anal so whats a girl to do? The issue here is me, I am a major grump to put it mild going thru this so my remark was light hearted. I hope you guys can patch it up, I dont think either of you have been rude to each other but rather are sensitive and concerned with some opinions and who would not have an opinion afterthis experience. please get along because when I am stuck in the hotel by myself I could use some online support, i will need more than my aroma therapy candle thats for sure lol. Take care both of you grumps now!or mommy will spank you.
Posted by so far so good on June 27, 2004, at 21:42:17
In reply to Re: You both sound grumpy » arrie, posted by Chuckie on June 27, 2004, at 16:20:04
GOOD LUCK CHUCK>
Posted by so far so good on June 27, 2004, at 21:58:13
In reply to sofar/chuckie.... hang in dudes, posted by arrie on June 27, 2004, at 20:38:39
arrie , I will check with you.I really care . I would love to hear a great recovery story. As for me I am feeling good . This is working for me . Honestly.I hope you have the success I feel I am. I wish you the best . Please let me know what the doc plans for you on the 9 . Ask a ton of questions. What his/her plan is for you. I slept for three days(after 48 hour of last bupe dose I guess i slept thru the w/d with the meds I mentioned earlier.It was nothing like wanting a fix and not getting a fix w/d. Ask doc if he is gonna give you other meds when you walk off. If thats your plan. Friend of mine did bupe @ meth clinic and 30 day taper down plan and ill see you later . He went back on done.Make sure the doc is on the same page you feel you need to be on .Ill talk to you later . I would also like to thank you for the support.
Posted by so far so good on June 27, 2004, at 22:02:44
In reply to Re: please be civil » arrie » so far so good, posted by Dr. Bob on June 25, 2004, at 4:48:45
wont happen again
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 28, 2004, at 9:39:17
In reply to I did it again before i read dr bob e mail sorry, posted by so far so good on June 27, 2004, at 22:02:44
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 28, 2004, at 9:42:23
In reply to That's Nice » so far so good, posted by Chuckie on June 27, 2004, at 16:10:35
> your unconcerned and unresearched opinions.
>
> you're not nicePlease don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you have any questions or comments about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
or redirect a follow-up to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Sharing something about your own issues and their possible role in your reaction might be an interesting exercise -- and might help others respond to you supportively.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Chuckie on July 5, 2004, at 11:39:18
In reply to Re: please be civil » Chuckie, posted by Dr. Bob on June 28, 2004, at 9:42:23
That's nice how you showed concern for his feelings like that. Now what about mine? I had to defend my own self when he made /me/ feel put down and accused. Now you put me down and accuse me for defending myself.
Read his post... by his own words he doesn't care about what i had to say, and so he wasn't going to bother looking into it. So by his own words his opinions were unconcerned and unresearched. And he /wasn't/ wasn't nice about it.
Is that how one gets away with putting people down around here? So from now on i should couch negative comments in sarcasm so that there's nothing for the moderator to quote?
Bleh. I say what i mean.
- Chuckie
Posted by arrie on July 5, 2004, at 18:57:52
In reply to What? » Dr. Bob, posted by Chuckie on July 5, 2004, at 11:39:18
Chuckie, relax everyone myself included gets that message from Dr Bob, come one come all, its sort of like being part of the gang, I think.
How are you getting along? Are you still on the Bup, sorry if I have asked you before, seems to me you should still be on since it has not been that long, bring me up to date if you can. Does it help with depression like the opiates you were taking? My appt is thurs so I am coming up on it. How many hours were you into withdrawl when you went in, they say 12 hours is Ok, but that doesnt put much distance between the two. Please try to not get miffed at sofar (or me) we are suppose to be helping each other here. Take care Chuckie
Posted by Chuckie on July 5, 2004, at 19:23:14
In reply to Re: What?, posted by arrie on July 5, 2004, at 18:57:52
If everyone gets it i guess i don't feel so bad, but sofar their should've got it too.
I'm still at 16mg/day though still intending to taper. 8mg/day would be a good thing; 4 would be even better. I've heard enough to have confidence that i can do that. When i get down to 8mg i'm gonna have my Doc give me 2mg tabs, (i think they have those?) or 1mg if there is such a thing. I'd like to regulate it like i do the clonazapam, i.e. maintaining a balance. It's hard to bust up these 8mg tabs; they're crumbly because they're for sublingual dissolving. You might mind that... i lost two days worth last month because the pilss disintegrated in the bottle. It's a good thing i had a few extra.
I waited twentyfour hours for my medication because i really didn't know what i was supposed to do. It wasn't that bad though, i mean i just had like a touch of the flu and i was shaky, but i was fine almost immediately after taking the Bupe.
I think it's a good medicine, i just need to adjust to it and vice versa. Are you taking to taper off or for maintenance?
- Chuckie
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 5, 2004, at 23:18:58
In reply to Re: please be civil » Chuckie, posted by Dr. Bob on June 28, 2004, at 9:42:23
> If you have any ... comments about this ... please ... redirect a follow-up to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20040527/msgs/363345.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by arrie on July 5, 2004, at 23:57:56
In reply to OK » arrie, posted by Chuckie on July 5, 2004, at 19:23:14
Chuckie, I think its undecided right now. I guess we will say I want to take it to do a long taper. I am reading quite a bit on some other sites accounts from those on Bup for maintainence. Beware here, less is more with this drug. Do not let it get its hooks into you or you will be back to square one. In other words, have a plan for reduction, stay strong and the war is not over.
Posted by Chuckie on July 6, 2004, at 7:59:57
In reply to Re: OK, posted by arrie on July 5, 2004, at 23:57:56
> Beware here, less is more with this drug.
> Do not let it get its hooks into you or you will be
> back to square one.Whatsat mean? What are you reading, and where? Sounds bad... But i need to know specifically what means "less is more" because i intend to take less.
Other than that i don't know what's the difference which drug has its hooks into me. At least this one is legal.
-Chuckie
Posted by so far so good on July 6, 2004, at 8:16:13
In reply to OK » arrie, posted by Chuckie on July 5, 2004, at 19:23:14
I have resisted writing this for a while but I must get it out. I promise there will be no more responses to others negativity.Chuck how can you decide who has posted the "complete and most informative bupe threads? You havent any idea of what pills/mgs or general ingredients or dosages of the "poppy tea" you were taking."The fat ones".Please if your problem is not addiction to opiates then post your bupe info elswere. It may be misleading to others, if you are taking it for a different reason ie. deppression,and its working for you or whatever. I gave a detailed description of a scenario of a pt. (me) whos main goal was to get opiate free.Thats what this forum is for "substance abuse ".People that are seeking subutex/suboxone info in this forum are wanting to know about bupe for opiate dependency.Thats what I brought to the table . Not some one that felt" a little crummy when they didnt have there tea".It sounds like you were feeling crummy even with your tae .My info is from some one that for several years,couldnt get through the day w/o opiates.When I didint have them alls I did was think about howwhen and were I could get them .
Posted by Chuckie on July 6, 2004, at 8:27:56
In reply to last time chuck /i wish you well, posted by so far so good on July 6, 2004, at 8:16:13
Posted by Chuckie on July 6, 2004, at 10:45:14
In reply to last time chuck /i wish you well, posted by so far so good on July 6, 2004, at 8:16:13
Please excuse my outburst.
1) I never said anything about the "complete and most informative bupe threads" and i don't think anyone else has, so i don't understand the purpose of the quotation marks. Please explain.
2) I don't understand why you call attention to my chemical ignorance. Questions are part of discussion, and in my situation it is necessary to sort out relative dosages and quantities. The doctor i saw apparently didn't know how to equate quantities of the different substances either. Please explain why you brought that up without offering helpful observations?
3) My problem /is/ opiate dependency. Depression is tangential to that problem. Sure "thread drift" can be confusing, but this wasn't very far off subject. The evidence is that many, many people with opiate dependence got that way because the substance alleviates their depression. Given that fact, i think it would be extraordinarilly helpful to explore the connection, because if it were understood better it could lead to more appropriate medications and/or medication regimens. E.g. maybe the drug companies could invent an opiate-based medication that doesn't cause dependence. Or in the interim, depression could be treated in appropriate cases with more benign substances. Many people have had their depression alleviated with tramadol, which is a synthetic opioid with a low abuse potential. Please explain why you treat the whole subject with ridicule?
4) >>Not some one that felt" a little crummy when they didnt have there tea".<<
That isn't what i said, so it's not a quote, so what is the purpose of the quotation marks, again?As i said, this issue is huge. I told you that i could provide lots and lots of reference material for you to research, and you said you're not interested. If you're not interested, then please don't belittle the issue. Furthermore, if you don't wish to research the issue then please don't belittle me for offering opinions based on the research that i /have/ done.
And please stop saying "please" in a derisive manner.
Thank You,
-Chuckie
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