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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 23 to 47 of 103. Go back in thread:
Posted by Declan on January 30, 2007, at 13:54:21
In reply to Re: Manipulative?, posted by cubic_me on January 30, 2007, at 13:51:14
With manipulative people I would like to learn to be more deft....you know, quicker.
Posted by one woman cine on January 30, 2007, at 13:57:32
In reply to Re: Manipulative?, posted by Declan on January 30, 2007, at 13:54:21
I'd like to be quicker intuitively in knowing I'm being manipulated - I only find out after I put in time and energy...
I'd also like to be able to step away without regret.
Posted by alesta on January 30, 2007, at 14:11:40
In reply to those with personality disorders...., posted by alesta on January 30, 2007, at 8:58:39
if i could delete this post i would but bob will not allow that i'm sure...i was trying to stand up for the victim..i am going through *hell* with ppl in my life right now, and all of a sudden am *very* angry. it's like the dam on my emotions has exploded and i am trying to deal with it. i was trying to inform and support the victims...i can't even read the posts here...after i read nikki's i pretty much knew this thread was not going to be...uh...productive or pleasant. all i can ask is that some of you who are angry at me or don't understand might have some compassion for what i'm going through. i was also trying to illuminate with facts...this is just all wrong. i guess this is my #$#hole moment. or maybe i'm just trying to make KK feel better by entering into my own babble hell. please forgive me...maybe i will have the guts to read all your posts, but if my emotional state currently is any indication, i doubt it...
trying to be understood and forgiven for a moment of stupidity..i try so hard to be helpful most of the time...i just wish there was more knowledge out there and sharing of experiences...i don't even know what to say. or think. i just need someone to understand. i guess i'll go somewhere else for that.
i seriously can't think straight right now. but this is just a forum and if y'all hate me, there is nothing i can do about it. i've grown a lot from the days where babble could make me want to commit suicide.
dr. bob...would you consider deleting my post?
amy
Posted by Clockwork Ange on January 30, 2007, at 14:14:41
In reply to those with personality disorders...., posted by alesta on January 30, 2007, at 8:58:39
> are typically detested in social circles..maddening to others. i find myself having similar feelings about the disordered...i find their manipulations disgusting...any tips on how to be more tolerant? it is even worse when you can see manipulations that others don't...an unpleasant gift of mine.
>
> i needed to air this...i need ways to deal with the personality disordered without losing my head...and their are quite a few of them in all venues of my existence right now...
>
> btw these feelings are *normal* for normal people exposed to the personality-disordered. i think it's time we talk about them.
>
> Amy
>I feel this post is not civil. The assumptions and generalizations that are made in this post have made me sad and frustrated.
Posted by Deneb on January 30, 2007, at 14:16:30
In reply to Re: Manipulative? » Declan, posted by one woman cine on January 30, 2007, at 13:57:32
I have a borderline personality. Sometimes people say they feel manipulated by me, but my intention wasn't to manipulate. I just say and write the wrong things. Why would I want to make others feel bad when that only makes me feel bad? I don't do it on purpose.
Maybe I'm paranoid or self centered, but I keep thinking people are talking about me.
Deneb*
Posted by Clockwork Ange on January 30, 2007, at 14:20:47
In reply to uhhh...., posted by alesta on January 30, 2007, at 14:11:40
> if i could delete this post i would but bob will not allow that i'm sure...i was trying to stand up for the victim..i am going through *hell* with ppl in my life right now, and all of a sudden am *very* angry. it's like the dam on my emotions has exploded and i am trying to deal with it. i was trying to inform and support the victims...i can't even read the posts here...after i read nikki's i pretty much knew this thread was not going to be...uh...productive or pleasant. all i can ask is that some of you who are angry at me or don't understand might have some compassion for what i'm going through. i was also trying to illuminate with facts...this is just all wrong. i guess this is my #$#hole moment. or maybe i'm just trying to make KK feel better by entering into my own babble hell. please forgive me...maybe i will have the guts to read all your posts, but if my emotional state currently is any indication, i doubt it...
>
> trying to be understood and forgiven for a moment of stupidity..i try so hard to be helpful most of the time...i just wish there was more knowledge out there and sharing of experiences...i don't even know what to say. or think. i just need someone to understand. i guess i'll go somewhere else for that.
>
> i seriously can't think straight right now. but this is just a forum and if y'all hate me, there is nothing i can do about it. i've grown a lot from the days where babble could make me want to commit suicide.
>
> dr. bob...would you consider deleting my post?
>
> amyThe language in your first post is what made me feel frustrated. Maybe you were so angry that the language you chose was a bit much?
It's great you want to be more tolerant. In order to do that, I think one would have to choose their wording more carefully. Bringing up normal with asterisks and using the word disgusting are not productive ways to get a point across.
Does that make sense?
Posted by alesta on January 30, 2007, at 14:21:24
In reply to Is this post civil?, posted by Clockwork Ange on January 30, 2007, at 14:14:41
and i did just make it through all the posts. and i am still alive :)
i know i am a good person. a person with flaws, but
predominantly good. and that is why i am not a crumpled mess on the floor right now.taking a break...will miss those that care.
Posted by one woman cine on January 30, 2007, at 14:21:29
In reply to uhhh...., posted by alesta on January 30, 2007, at 14:11:40
I hope he doesn't delete it - I think it could start a good discussion - but I understand how the post could be taken the wrong way -
.".i try so hard to be helpful most of the time...i just wish there was more knowledge out there and sharing of experiences...i don't even know what to say. or think. i just need someone to understand. i guess i'll go somewhere else for that. "
I think it's OK, though - I wish there was more discussion too. & understanding even though someone may be frustrated.
Please stay.
((alesta))
Posted by one woman cine on January 30, 2007, at 14:27:58
In reply to Re: uhhh....)) lets try again... » alesta, posted by Clockwork Ange on January 30, 2007, at 14:20:47
I felt saddened by the post in some ways too. But I do think it's better to have a discussion, albeit rocky, about things that are uncomfortable. If we can talk about suicide, self-harm etc. (the most uncomfortable topics as an example) - why can't we talk about how we feel as well - what's going on IRL or otherwise.
I realize honesty is not necessarily important in bob's world, civility is - but honesty and civility are a two way street.
Posted by Clockwork Ange on January 30, 2007, at 14:31:30
In reply to Re: uhhh....)) lets try again..., posted by one woman cine on January 30, 2007, at 14:27:58
> I felt saddened by the post in some ways too. But I do think it's better to have a discussion, albeit rocky, about things that are uncomfortable. If we can talk about suicide, self-harm etc. (the most uncomfortable topics as an example) - why can't we talk about how we feel as well - what's going on IRL or otherwise.
>
> I realize honesty is not necessarily important in bob's world, civility is - but honesty and civility are a two way street.true that. double true.
Posted by Clockwork Ange on January 30, 2007, at 14:34:57
In reply to I was already given a PBC, Clockwork » Clockwork Ange, posted by alesta on January 30, 2007, at 14:21:24
> and i did just make it through all the posts. and i am still alive :)
>
> i know i am a good person. a person with flaws, but
> predominantly good. and that is why i am not a crumpled mess on the floor right now.
>
> taking a break...will miss those that care.
>
>A crumpled mess- no no! No one would ever want that for anyone!
I think it must have been a misunderstanding... can we all try again?
What/who has been driving you crazy? Is it safe for me to assume you have been manipulated pretty badly? Is this/are these people that are giving you a hard time being medicated/treated?
I want to understand- and help if I can...
Posted by one woman cine on January 30, 2007, at 14:40:50
In reply to Re: uhhh....)) lets try again..., posted by one woman cine on January 30, 2007, at 14:27:58
Posted by alesta on January 30, 2007, at 14:49:41
In reply to Re: I was already given a PBC, Clockwork » alesta, posted by Clockwork Ange on January 30, 2007, at 14:34:57
I'm okay....things are just a little intense right now, man...i think i need to just step back and sort things out...and thank you so much for your kind gesture. you guys that are kind to me when i'm down have no idea what it means..:) one woman cine...thank you, too :-) and anyone else that was kind that i missed somehow.
be well,:)
amy
Posted by ClearSkies on January 30, 2007, at 14:52:26
In reply to uhhh...., posted by alesta on January 30, 2007, at 14:11:40
Dr Bob doesn't delete posts often that I've seen.
I was very surprised to read your post, Alesta.CS
Posted by ClearSkies on January 30, 2007, at 14:55:56
In reply to Re: uhhh....)) lets try again..., posted by one woman cine on January 30, 2007, at 14:27:58
> I felt saddened by the post in some ways too. But I do think it's better to have a discussion, albeit rocky, about things that are uncomfortable. If we can talk about suicide, self-harm etc. (the most uncomfortable topics as an example) - why can't we talk about how we feel as well - what's going on IRL or otherwise.
>
> I realize honesty is not necessarily important in bob's world, civility is - but honesty and civility are a two way street.
I think it's a challenge for us to figure out a way to discuss these sensitive issues while conforming to the civility guidelines. I do, however, think it's entirely possible to be both honest and civil.CS
Posted by zenhussy on January 30, 2007, at 15:00:32
In reply to those with personality disorders...., posted by alesta on January 30, 2007, at 8:58:39
foot in mouth disease can run rampant....when others at this site have engaged in communication that resulted in misunderstandings and passionate feelings for or against we've witnessed ppl coming to the defence of the orig. poster.
we'd like to offer up that over the years alesta has posted much support and much infomation that has been of great value...
she's written about having a very hard time currently....
we're surprised by the responses to a very dear poster who has expressed having a rough go of things.....
aimster....all our love and support dearie
we've seen other posters who've posted that they're certain of the intent of the orig. poster (not sure how that is possible but we'll give it a whirl)....nothing different in this case 'cept we might be minority....but we're a VOCAL minority! ;)
Posted by kid47 on January 30, 2007, at 15:26:00
In reply to like others we believe alesta's intent as good, posted by zenhussy on January 30, 2007, at 15:00:32
Ditto for me
Peace
Kid> foot in mouth disease can run rampant....when others at this site have engaged in communication that resulted in misunderstandings and passionate feelings for or against we've witnessed ppl coming to the defence of the orig. poster.
>
> we'd like to offer up that over the years alesta has posted much support and much infomation that has been of great value...
>
> she's written about having a very hard time currently....
>
> we're surprised by the responses to a very dear poster who has expressed having a rough go of things.....
>
> aimster....all our love and support dearie
>
> we've seen other posters who've posted that they're certain of the intent of the orig. poster (not sure how that is possible but we'll give it a whirl)....nothing different in this case 'cept we might be minority....but we're a VOCAL minority! ;)
Posted by gardenergirl on January 30, 2007, at 19:08:52
In reply to Re: uhhh....)) lets try again... » one woman cine, posted by ClearSkies on January 30, 2007, at 14:55:56
> > I realize honesty is not necessarily important in bob's world, civility is - but honesty and civility are a two way street.I agree. But even when someone else is not civil or not honest, we still have to be in order to stay within site guidelines. And there is also the notify administrators form for use when appropriate.
>
>
> I think it's a challenge for us to figure out a way to discuss these sensitive issues while conforming to the civility guidelines. I do, however, think it's entirely possible to be both honest and civil.
>
> CSI think CS is exactly right. It's a challenge, but not impossible. I think in many cases it's possible to be honest as long as one expresses that from their own perspective. It's when we structure our words in such a way as what we feel or believe or think is the object or in some way is expressed as a result of someone else's actions or words that we cross the civility line.
No one can argue with me if I say I'm angry about X. They could certainly try, but only I know what my internal state is. If anyone takes offense at my internal state, well, they are certainly crossing some boundary, eh? So even if I'm expressing a negative reaction or feeling, as long as I own it and don't make it secondary to someone else, it's pretty much going to be okay. Note, this doesn't mean you can say "I feel" in front of an opinion or thought, etc. if that opinion or thought could lead others to feel accused or put down. For example, I can't say, "I feel X is a moron." That's not a feeling, and it's not civil.
Along those lines, saying "I feel X is mocking me" won't fly. What you're really feeling is something else. Mocked? Angry? Hurt? Embarrassed? Those are the feelings to be expressed, not a reflection of what the other person is doing. Not everyone will want to express those feelings, which is fine.
But anyway, some advice, lengthy--sorry, for talking about difficult issues while remaining civil.
I guess the simplest I can get about this is to suggest this: Ask yourself before submitting your post how you would react if you read it and it was about you. Could you feel accused or hurt, etc.?
Anywhoo, I think this is an important topic, I agree with Glydin about the importance of boundaries, and I hope that some of this was helpful to someone.
namaste
gg
Posted by Declan on January 30, 2007, at 19:20:15
In reply to Re: uhhh....)) lets try again..+ a gentle reminder, posted by gardenergirl on January 30, 2007, at 19:08:52
This is the most fun I've had all day, which isn't saying a lot, but still, I'm not going to be choosy.
So that's NOT a feeling. I shall try to remember. What about 'I feel perpetual low level scorn and I need an outlet'? No, that's not a feeling either. 'I'd like to attack you but I don't want to be punished'? No good either. How about 'I'm feeling jumpy and intensely irritated and you make it worse'?
I don't think I have any idea how to be civil. Please don't recommend a civilty buddy. It wouldn't be fair to them.
Posted by Phillipa on January 30, 2007, at 20:53:45
In reply to I feel X is a moron » gardenergirl, posted by Declan on January 30, 2007, at 19:20:15
Declan no you can't say you make . Restate the statement please. Love Phillipa
Posted by gardenergirl on January 30, 2007, at 21:52:32
In reply to Re: uhhh....)) lets try again..+ a gentle reminder, posted by gardenergirl on January 30, 2007, at 19:08:52
Posted by alesta on January 30, 2007, at 22:18:04
In reply to Re: uhhh....)) lets try again..+ a gentle reminder, posted by gardenergirl on January 30, 2007, at 19:08:52
GG...i was trying to express my feelings about their manipulations...if i was talking to a therapist it would have been acceptable to say I felt disgust. In fact, i would be encouraged to do so. I suppose i can't say it here because there are personality-disordered people here. But...should we protect *them*? Should we shield them from their actions? Or is it perhaps beneficial in some way for them to see the pain some of them may cause via their behavior? my next question is...why are we always protecting the perpetrators???? and not those they victimize? perhaps i am going out on a limb at this point. perhaps i am wrong. i am just tired of not having a voice...the perpetrators always seem to have a voice. i am tired of being silenced. and....like i said i could possibly be wrong. but i try to always be there for people here and...gee...one outburst of possibly inappropriate emotion and they will throw you to the wolves. i think what those people posted says more about them than what i posted says about me. i'm tired and not even sure any of this makes sense. i have serious IRL issues to attend to so...y'all have at me some more if it pleases you. i know a couple women who would love nothing more than to go at me a few rounds, regardless of the topic. enjoy, guys...i have my hands full right now. lecture me some more...whatever...i love being treated like a child....I am exiting this thread. i am still quite angry. i think it would be best for me to just leave right now. i am not used to being angry and am unsure how to deal with it. i know my friends here will always understand. that is one thing i can count on.
oh and thanks to glydin, zen, and kid...i love and respect you guys.
Amy
Posted by wishingstar on January 30, 2007, at 22:26:01
In reply to Re: uhhh....)) lets try again..+ a gentle reminder » gardenergirl, posted by alesta on January 30, 2007, at 22:18:04
I'm feeling hurt in many ways because of some of the things in this thread. Just because I have a borderline diagnoses does not make me bad or evil. Just because I have a borderline diagnosis doesnt mean I'm not aware that I'm hurting people. But I'm trying my best. 7 years of therapy later, I'm still trying my best. No one is perfect.
Posted by sleepygirl on January 30, 2007, at 22:30:25
In reply to Re: uhhh....)) lets try again..+ a gentle reminder » gardenergirl, posted by alesta on January 30, 2007, at 22:18:04
so I guess you might be annoyed at the fact that you can't point out what you know is there??
if that's the case...that bothers me toojust the personality disorder label I find as tricky...we all have tendencies, our defenses, many of them end up alienating lots of people
it's a minefield
...anyway come back soon, no wolves here
Posted by wishingstar on January 30, 2007, at 22:59:29
In reply to im feeling..., posted by wishingstar on January 30, 2007, at 22:26:01
I've reconsidered. It's silly for me to be getting upset over this and I think I'm taking it too personally. My diagnosis is not who I am, and even if borderline is a correct diagnosis for me, it doesnt mean anything about who I am as a person. Seeing as how I've never met anyone on this site in person or had any extended contacts with anyone, there's just no way anyone could judge me as any of those things I mentioned before. And if they did, that wouldnt be my problem.. it'd be theirs. Because I know I'm okay in that way. Self-worth and such is another issue, but I know I'm not a terrible manipulative person.
Just for the record, I'm not trying to say anything about any posters in particular or as a group in the statement about judging. I'm not saying anyone is judging me. I'm just saying IF they were to... etc.
I'm sorry for everyone who has had bad experiences though. And sorry for that little burst of over-sensitivity.
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