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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 17 to 41 of 103. Go back in thread:
Posted by gabbi-2 on January 30, 2007, at 13:05:43
In reply to Re: Please rephrase » gabbi-2, posted by gardenergirl on January 30, 2007, at 12:45:11
Okay
I was angered by the generalizations and assumptions contained in the post..
Posted by Declan on January 30, 2007, at 13:16:01
In reply to those with personality disorders...., posted by alesta on January 30, 2007, at 8:58:39
I confess to not having read all this thread, but why not restrict our comments to (say) manipulativeness.
'Personality disorder' has the feel of fake science, whereas we all know what manipulation is.Does that make sense?
Posted by one woman cine on January 30, 2007, at 13:21:33
In reply to Manipulative?, posted by Declan on January 30, 2007, at 13:16:01
I wish we could just hash out the issues on hand within the community, being civil of course -
it doesn't seem fair that we are not able to do that considering some really intense things have been going down for some time.....
I'm feeling frustrated.
Posted by Declan on January 30, 2007, at 13:29:14
In reply to Re: Manipulative?, posted by one woman cine on January 30, 2007, at 13:21:33
There are certainly annoying people with all sorts of qualities and stuff, but if you 'believe' in personality disorders you may be mistaking the map for the country, and a pretty hohum map too, IMO.
It's fake science, isn't it?
But no doubt I'm underestimating you all and you know it is just morality (which is quite OK) dressed up as science.Please excuse me, I just got up.
Posted by gabbi-2 on January 30, 2007, at 13:37:44
In reply to gabbi » gabbi-2, posted by NikkiT2 on January 30, 2007, at 10:48:09
Thank you Nikki, that means a lot coming from you
((Nikki))
Posted by cubic_me on January 30, 2007, at 13:51:14
In reply to Manipulative?, posted by Declan on January 30, 2007, at 13:16:01
> I confess to not having read all this thread, but why not restrict our comments to (say) manipulativeness.
> 'Personality disorder' has the feel of fake science, whereas we all know what manipulation is.
>
> Does that make sense?That makes a lot of sense to me.
I feel frustrated when I feel manipulated - not mad.
Amy sounds like she wants to learn how to be more tolerant (please correct me if I'm wrong), that's a pretty positive thing. I'd like to know how I can be more tolerant too. I seem to get to a point of being so frustrated that I find it difficult to help any more, and I'm sure that's more a fault of mine than of the other person.
Posted by Declan on January 30, 2007, at 13:54:21
In reply to Re: Manipulative?, posted by cubic_me on January 30, 2007, at 13:51:14
With manipulative people I would like to learn to be more deft....you know, quicker.
Posted by one woman cine on January 30, 2007, at 13:57:32
In reply to Re: Manipulative?, posted by Declan on January 30, 2007, at 13:54:21
I'd like to be quicker intuitively in knowing I'm being manipulated - I only find out after I put in time and energy...
I'd also like to be able to step away without regret.
Posted by alesta on January 30, 2007, at 14:11:40
In reply to those with personality disorders...., posted by alesta on January 30, 2007, at 8:58:39
if i could delete this post i would but bob will not allow that i'm sure...i was trying to stand up for the victim..i am going through *hell* with ppl in my life right now, and all of a sudden am *very* angry. it's like the dam on my emotions has exploded and i am trying to deal with it. i was trying to inform and support the victims...i can't even read the posts here...after i read nikki's i pretty much knew this thread was not going to be...uh...productive or pleasant. all i can ask is that some of you who are angry at me or don't understand might have some compassion for what i'm going through. i was also trying to illuminate with facts...this is just all wrong. i guess this is my #$#hole moment. or maybe i'm just trying to make KK feel better by entering into my own babble hell. please forgive me...maybe i will have the guts to read all your posts, but if my emotional state currently is any indication, i doubt it...
trying to be understood and forgiven for a moment of stupidity..i try so hard to be helpful most of the time...i just wish there was more knowledge out there and sharing of experiences...i don't even know what to say. or think. i just need someone to understand. i guess i'll go somewhere else for that.
i seriously can't think straight right now. but this is just a forum and if y'all hate me, there is nothing i can do about it. i've grown a lot from the days where babble could make me want to commit suicide.
dr. bob...would you consider deleting my post?
amy
Posted by Clockwork Ange on January 30, 2007, at 14:14:41
In reply to those with personality disorders...., posted by alesta on January 30, 2007, at 8:58:39
> are typically detested in social circles..maddening to others. i find myself having similar feelings about the disordered...i find their manipulations disgusting...any tips on how to be more tolerant? it is even worse when you can see manipulations that others don't...an unpleasant gift of mine.
>
> i needed to air this...i need ways to deal with the personality disordered without losing my head...and their are quite a few of them in all venues of my existence right now...
>
> btw these feelings are *normal* for normal people exposed to the personality-disordered. i think it's time we talk about them.
>
> Amy
>I feel this post is not civil. The assumptions and generalizations that are made in this post have made me sad and frustrated.
Posted by Deneb on January 30, 2007, at 14:16:30
In reply to Re: Manipulative? » Declan, posted by one woman cine on January 30, 2007, at 13:57:32
I have a borderline personality. Sometimes people say they feel manipulated by me, but my intention wasn't to manipulate. I just say and write the wrong things. Why would I want to make others feel bad when that only makes me feel bad? I don't do it on purpose.
Maybe I'm paranoid or self centered, but I keep thinking people are talking about me.
Deneb*
Posted by Clockwork Ange on January 30, 2007, at 14:20:47
In reply to uhhh...., posted by alesta on January 30, 2007, at 14:11:40
> if i could delete this post i would but bob will not allow that i'm sure...i was trying to stand up for the victim..i am going through *hell* with ppl in my life right now, and all of a sudden am *very* angry. it's like the dam on my emotions has exploded and i am trying to deal with it. i was trying to inform and support the victims...i can't even read the posts here...after i read nikki's i pretty much knew this thread was not going to be...uh...productive or pleasant. all i can ask is that some of you who are angry at me or don't understand might have some compassion for what i'm going through. i was also trying to illuminate with facts...this is just all wrong. i guess this is my #$#hole moment. or maybe i'm just trying to make KK feel better by entering into my own babble hell. please forgive me...maybe i will have the guts to read all your posts, but if my emotional state currently is any indication, i doubt it...
>
> trying to be understood and forgiven for a moment of stupidity..i try so hard to be helpful most of the time...i just wish there was more knowledge out there and sharing of experiences...i don't even know what to say. or think. i just need someone to understand. i guess i'll go somewhere else for that.
>
> i seriously can't think straight right now. but this is just a forum and if y'all hate me, there is nothing i can do about it. i've grown a lot from the days where babble could make me want to commit suicide.
>
> dr. bob...would you consider deleting my post?
>
> amyThe language in your first post is what made me feel frustrated. Maybe you were so angry that the language you chose was a bit much?
It's great you want to be more tolerant. In order to do that, I think one would have to choose their wording more carefully. Bringing up normal with asterisks and using the word disgusting are not productive ways to get a point across.
Does that make sense?
Posted by alesta on January 30, 2007, at 14:21:24
In reply to Is this post civil?, posted by Clockwork Ange on January 30, 2007, at 14:14:41
and i did just make it through all the posts. and i am still alive :)
i know i am a good person. a person with flaws, but
predominantly good. and that is why i am not a crumpled mess on the floor right now.taking a break...will miss those that care.
Posted by one woman cine on January 30, 2007, at 14:21:29
In reply to uhhh...., posted by alesta on January 30, 2007, at 14:11:40
I hope he doesn't delete it - I think it could start a good discussion - but I understand how the post could be taken the wrong way -
.".i try so hard to be helpful most of the time...i just wish there was more knowledge out there and sharing of experiences...i don't even know what to say. or think. i just need someone to understand. i guess i'll go somewhere else for that. "
I think it's OK, though - I wish there was more discussion too. & understanding even though someone may be frustrated.
Please stay.
((alesta))
Posted by one woman cine on January 30, 2007, at 14:27:58
In reply to Re: uhhh....)) lets try again... » alesta, posted by Clockwork Ange on January 30, 2007, at 14:20:47
I felt saddened by the post in some ways too. But I do think it's better to have a discussion, albeit rocky, about things that are uncomfortable. If we can talk about suicide, self-harm etc. (the most uncomfortable topics as an example) - why can't we talk about how we feel as well - what's going on IRL or otherwise.
I realize honesty is not necessarily important in bob's world, civility is - but honesty and civility are a two way street.
Posted by Clockwork Ange on January 30, 2007, at 14:31:30
In reply to Re: uhhh....)) lets try again..., posted by one woman cine on January 30, 2007, at 14:27:58
> I felt saddened by the post in some ways too. But I do think it's better to have a discussion, albeit rocky, about things that are uncomfortable. If we can talk about suicide, self-harm etc. (the most uncomfortable topics as an example) - why can't we talk about how we feel as well - what's going on IRL or otherwise.
>
> I realize honesty is not necessarily important in bob's world, civility is - but honesty and civility are a two way street.true that. double true.
Posted by Clockwork Ange on January 30, 2007, at 14:34:57
In reply to I was already given a PBC, Clockwork » Clockwork Ange, posted by alesta on January 30, 2007, at 14:21:24
> and i did just make it through all the posts. and i am still alive :)
>
> i know i am a good person. a person with flaws, but
> predominantly good. and that is why i am not a crumpled mess on the floor right now.
>
> taking a break...will miss those that care.
>
>A crumpled mess- no no! No one would ever want that for anyone!
I think it must have been a misunderstanding... can we all try again?
What/who has been driving you crazy? Is it safe for me to assume you have been manipulated pretty badly? Is this/are these people that are giving you a hard time being medicated/treated?
I want to understand- and help if I can...
Posted by one woman cine on January 30, 2007, at 14:40:50
In reply to Re: uhhh....)) lets try again..., posted by one woman cine on January 30, 2007, at 14:27:58
Posted by alesta on January 30, 2007, at 14:49:41
In reply to Re: I was already given a PBC, Clockwork » alesta, posted by Clockwork Ange on January 30, 2007, at 14:34:57
I'm okay....things are just a little intense right now, man...i think i need to just step back and sort things out...and thank you so much for your kind gesture. you guys that are kind to me when i'm down have no idea what it means..:) one woman cine...thank you, too :-) and anyone else that was kind that i missed somehow.
be well,:)
amy
Posted by ClearSkies on January 30, 2007, at 14:52:26
In reply to uhhh...., posted by alesta on January 30, 2007, at 14:11:40
Dr Bob doesn't delete posts often that I've seen.
I was very surprised to read your post, Alesta.CS
Posted by ClearSkies on January 30, 2007, at 14:55:56
In reply to Re: uhhh....)) lets try again..., posted by one woman cine on January 30, 2007, at 14:27:58
> I felt saddened by the post in some ways too. But I do think it's better to have a discussion, albeit rocky, about things that are uncomfortable. If we can talk about suicide, self-harm etc. (the most uncomfortable topics as an example) - why can't we talk about how we feel as well - what's going on IRL or otherwise.
>
> I realize honesty is not necessarily important in bob's world, civility is - but honesty and civility are a two way street.
I think it's a challenge for us to figure out a way to discuss these sensitive issues while conforming to the civility guidelines. I do, however, think it's entirely possible to be both honest and civil.CS
Posted by zenhussy on January 30, 2007, at 15:00:32
In reply to those with personality disorders...., posted by alesta on January 30, 2007, at 8:58:39
foot in mouth disease can run rampant....when others at this site have engaged in communication that resulted in misunderstandings and passionate feelings for or against we've witnessed ppl coming to the defence of the orig. poster.
we'd like to offer up that over the years alesta has posted much support and much infomation that has been of great value...
she's written about having a very hard time currently....
we're surprised by the responses to a very dear poster who has expressed having a rough go of things.....
aimster....all our love and support dearie
we've seen other posters who've posted that they're certain of the intent of the orig. poster (not sure how that is possible but we'll give it a whirl)....nothing different in this case 'cept we might be minority....but we're a VOCAL minority! ;)
Posted by kid47 on January 30, 2007, at 15:26:00
In reply to like others we believe alesta's intent as good, posted by zenhussy on January 30, 2007, at 15:00:32
Ditto for me
Peace
Kid> foot in mouth disease can run rampant....when others at this site have engaged in communication that resulted in misunderstandings and passionate feelings for or against we've witnessed ppl coming to the defence of the orig. poster.
>
> we'd like to offer up that over the years alesta has posted much support and much infomation that has been of great value...
>
> she's written about having a very hard time currently....
>
> we're surprised by the responses to a very dear poster who has expressed having a rough go of things.....
>
> aimster....all our love and support dearie
>
> we've seen other posters who've posted that they're certain of the intent of the orig. poster (not sure how that is possible but we'll give it a whirl)....nothing different in this case 'cept we might be minority....but we're a VOCAL minority! ;)
Posted by gardenergirl on January 30, 2007, at 19:08:52
In reply to Re: uhhh....)) lets try again... » one woman cine, posted by ClearSkies on January 30, 2007, at 14:55:56
> > I realize honesty is not necessarily important in bob's world, civility is - but honesty and civility are a two way street.I agree. But even when someone else is not civil or not honest, we still have to be in order to stay within site guidelines. And there is also the notify administrators form for use when appropriate.
>
>
> I think it's a challenge for us to figure out a way to discuss these sensitive issues while conforming to the civility guidelines. I do, however, think it's entirely possible to be both honest and civil.
>
> CSI think CS is exactly right. It's a challenge, but not impossible. I think in many cases it's possible to be honest as long as one expresses that from their own perspective. It's when we structure our words in such a way as what we feel or believe or think is the object or in some way is expressed as a result of someone else's actions or words that we cross the civility line.
No one can argue with me if I say I'm angry about X. They could certainly try, but only I know what my internal state is. If anyone takes offense at my internal state, well, they are certainly crossing some boundary, eh? So even if I'm expressing a negative reaction or feeling, as long as I own it and don't make it secondary to someone else, it's pretty much going to be okay. Note, this doesn't mean you can say "I feel" in front of an opinion or thought, etc. if that opinion or thought could lead others to feel accused or put down. For example, I can't say, "I feel X is a moron." That's not a feeling, and it's not civil.
Along those lines, saying "I feel X is mocking me" won't fly. What you're really feeling is something else. Mocked? Angry? Hurt? Embarrassed? Those are the feelings to be expressed, not a reflection of what the other person is doing. Not everyone will want to express those feelings, which is fine.
But anyway, some advice, lengthy--sorry, for talking about difficult issues while remaining civil.
I guess the simplest I can get about this is to suggest this: Ask yourself before submitting your post how you would react if you read it and it was about you. Could you feel accused or hurt, etc.?
Anywhoo, I think this is an important topic, I agree with Glydin about the importance of boundaries, and I hope that some of this was helpful to someone.
namaste
gg
Posted by Declan on January 30, 2007, at 19:20:15
In reply to Re: uhhh....)) lets try again..+ a gentle reminder, posted by gardenergirl on January 30, 2007, at 19:08:52
This is the most fun I've had all day, which isn't saying a lot, but still, I'm not going to be choosy.
So that's NOT a feeling. I shall try to remember. What about 'I feel perpetual low level scorn and I need an outlet'? No, that's not a feeling either. 'I'd like to attack you but I don't want to be punished'? No good either. How about 'I'm feeling jumpy and intensely irritated and you make it worse'?
I don't think I have any idea how to be civil. Please don't recommend a civilty buddy. It wouldn't be fair to them.
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