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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by IsoM on February 1, 2003, at 1:57:57
In reply to Re: The jokes--Dinah, posted by jodie on February 1, 2003, at 0:18:33
Posted by Dinah on February 1, 2003, at 2:19:33
In reply to I will stick to deadly dull subjects from now on.. (nm), posted by IsoM on February 1, 2003, at 1:57:57
C'est impossible! (If I remember my high school French.)
No topic could be dull when you're discussing it, IsoM. You're even entertaining on the meds board, talking about neurotransmitters and things that usually put me to sleep. And to me, at least, neurotransmitter talk is potentially lethal in its dullness.
Posted by IsoM on February 1, 2003, at 3:09:52
In reply to Re: I will stick to deadly dull subjects from now on.. » IsoM, posted by Dinah on February 1, 2003, at 2:19:33
Thanks for your sweet comments, Dinah. But it seems safer to discuss absolutely neutral subjects & not to show a human face. Normally, I try to post in rather remote clinical terms but I remember one poster saying they missed my humour posts. Think I'll go watch Homestar Runner trying to do his Fluffy Puff marshmallow commercial again for a laugh. Or maybe Tenacious D doing their Tribute song & video. Both always perks me up.
Doesn't anyone get the point I was trying to make? It was the idea of ridiculous **etiquette** that was funny - not the people. But if I was to say Coyote Etiquette or Vegetable Etiquette, it wouldn't work. It has to be people that practice that would practice such silly ideas. Ah well...shows how diff we are. I could see the actual scenes, playing out visually in my mind - it wasn't the "people" I saw. To me, I saw slap stick humour & nothing more. Maybe I don't even know what rednecks are supposed to be.
Posted by Dinah on February 1, 2003, at 8:04:51
In reply to Re: I will stick to deadly dull subjects from now on.. » Dinah, posted by IsoM on February 1, 2003, at 3:09:52
> To me, I saw slap stick humour & nothing more. Maybe I don't even know what rednecks are supposed to be.
I knew that IsoM. That's why I explained. You see the problem with redneck jokes is that when people see someone who fits some of the "redneck" stereotypes (drinks beer, has a gun rack in their truck, wears a certain type of clothing, has a red neck :), add a few more as you please) that they will then extrapolate from those facts that they have a lot of other characteristics as well. That maybe they hold certain political beliefs or have certain character flaws.
And that just isn't true as a group. It may be true of individuals, but it's not true as an entire group.
In fact, none of your jokes even implied such a thing. They were based on the lack of social graces of rednecks. Yet, that very extrapolation occurred on this thread.
I think that maybe the stereotype gets confused with the meaning in people who aren't in contact with rednecks.
Just my 2 cents.
Dinah
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 1, 2003, at 8:22:26
In reply to Re: I will stick to deadly dull subjects from now on.. » Dinah, posted by IsoM on February 1, 2003, at 3:09:52
IsoM,
You wrote,[...maybe I do not know what rednecks are supposed to be...]
The term , redneck, has taken a different meaning from its original use. The original use was to describe a peoples that habited an area around the Carolinas that developed the characteristic red neck. They were of all types of economic classes and had no identifying social characteristics to differentiate them from those that did not have red necks. You see, the characteristic red neck was a result of where they lived, for that area of the country had a vitamin deficiency that caused the characteristic red neck. That area of the United States also had a particular dialecta. Tragically, it was in this area of the United Staes that racial predudice and hatred existed openly after the Civil War. Today, there are still people running for public office on a platform of hatred for minorities in that are of the United States. But it is only a minority of the people in that area of the country that support those type of public officials. So a lot of people, unfairly, became associated with "rednecks". Then belittlement became associated with "rednecks" and the classical ridicule of demeaness was attached to their peoples and developed into a [humor?] by comedians on television and writers of joke books. I have friends at Duke University and go to the Great Smokie Mountians frquently. From the people that I know, the term "redneck" is not accepted. They consider it to be demaning and cause people to be falsly associated , like the old "Amos and Andy" radio program that although it had a large audiance,, it demaned black people. The program was taken off the air. There are parts of the country that do not allow the comic strip,'Snuffy Smith" to be in their newspaper because of its demeaning of "Mountian" people.
The question before us here is whether the [jokes?] about "rednecks" should be permissible in the context of a mental health community. In a mental health community, people are seeking to be freed from their afflictions. As a retirerd teacher, I had seen the devistateing consequenses that occured to children that were ridiculed or demeaned because of their race, religion, national origen, sexual orrientation, handicap, appearance, manner, etc. etc. I have seen adults abused in the same manner and also experianced hurt from these type of refferences. I believe that in order to overcome our mental health afflictions that we must be free from any shackles of a stigma attached to us and others. I beleive that we must have the liberty of [equality]. Then we could say, {Free at last, free at last, thank God almighty, I am Free at Last.}
Lou
Posted by NikkiT2 on February 1, 2003, at 9:17:34
In reply to Re: I will stick to deadly dull subjects from now on.. » IsoM, posted by Lou Pilder on February 1, 2003, at 8:22:26
For heavens sake.. everyone, everwhere is subject to some kind of "racism", whether they're black, white, purple, orange, English, American or what ever.
I am a white English female, living in England. Every time I use my local shops I have faced with racism for being this... I live in an area that has a large Muslim population and as such, I am not even able to shop in some of my local shops without receiving some kind of abuse for being a western female. I am pushed, I am shoved and I am ignored by shop staff for it.
As I said, I am female.. there are many many jokes about females out there.
But, a joke is a bloody joke.. thats all... I laugh if its funny, I cringe if its not.. but it doesn;t affect my life as I don't think everyone that makes these jokes are out to hurt me in anyway.
When I left school and started my apprenticeship I was the only female. I was "one of the lads", but, as with anything, jokes were made.. some of the jokes were funny. BUT, our managers took it upon themselves to stamp this out, not caring how *I* felt.. and it made matters a million times worse... if these things were just left alone, no one would really care.If we all just sat back and ignored the jokes we didn;t like, no big issue would be made of it, and more people are hurt when issues are made of something.
Just my opinion..
Nikki x
Posted by Phyl on February 1, 2003, at 9:52:13
In reply to Redneck Etiquette Rules, posted by IsoM on January 31, 2003, at 15:19:57
Good Grief, Charlie Brown. We have lost our ability to laugh at ourselves. I am Italian. Nope, we are not all Mafiosos. Our "nicknames" are/were wop, daigo, guinea. So what do those words actually mean? Nothing, as far as I am concerned. (Wop is the noise you hear when an Eye-talian is thrown against a wall. The Ethopians said 'Never let a Daigo by.' If some called me a stupid ass, I might feel bad...Unless I was one at the time. ISO's jokes were a relief from a lot of sadness on the board. Time for this country to lighten up a bit and not take every single thing that is said to task and worry about who might be offended. I don't even know any "rednecks" but I had a good chuckle. I didn't think: Good for you, you redneck!
Posted by jay on February 1, 2003, at 9:54:06
In reply to *sighs*, posted by NikkiT2 on February 1, 2003, at 9:17:34
I just wanted to add the 'intent' of a joke is important too. Like Nikki and many of us have said..there are many jokes about *many* different types of people...especially here in Canada, about 'Canucks'..about some of us 'Newfies'...etc. I did not notice ANY intent to harm in IsoM's humour. What about our humour about little kids? Because we make fun of that, does that mean we hate kids? Man...Jay
Posted by Dinah on February 1, 2003, at 10:19:06
In reply to *sighs*, posted by NikkiT2 on February 1, 2003, at 9:17:34
Oddipus and Lou and I feel one way, most of the rest of you feel another way. That's fine. I actually believe that political correctness is overdone. But I still find myself uncomfortable with jokes about groups. As I've said, you're free to tell me I have no sense of humor.
I just hope that you understand and respect why we feel differently. And it's bound to come up again. If there are midget throwing threads, or redneck threads, or ethnic minority threads, I'm likely to say something. I don't feel like you have to agree with me, but I have to say something.
And I know no one meant to belittle Oddipus Rex's feelings. Perhaps it would be kind of everyone to reassure Rex of that.
Posted by Dinah on February 1, 2003, at 10:22:11
In reply to Re: *sighs*..me too... » NikkiT2, posted by jay on February 1, 2003, at 9:54:06
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030120/msgs/36022.html
> I just wanted to add the 'intent' of a joke is important too. Like Nikki and many of us have said..there are many jokes about *many* different types of people...especially here in Canada, about 'Canucks'..about some of us 'Newfies'...etc. I did not notice ANY intent to harm in IsoM's humour. What about our humour about little kids? Because we make fun of that, does that mean we hate kids? Man...
>
> Jay
Posted by Ritch on February 1, 2003, at 10:54:49
In reply to Redneck Etiquette Rules, posted by IsoM on January 31, 2003, at 15:19:57
IsoM,
Thanks for that joke! My parents are "rednecks", and I have lived in the rural South for probably half of my life. I guess that makes me 'one' too! I did get my Mom's deer rifle for Christmas last year. One of my best friends is an industrial mechanic and you never see him wearing anything but the navy blue uniforms that he wears at work (with his name patch sewn on of course). What makes this kind of stuff so funny is that it often is so true. There are a lot of Amish around where I live and it is a treat (not a laugh), to see groups of them in WalMart (especially with a cart full of wine and whisky). There was one Amish man with a big salt and pepper beard standing outside WalMart smoking a pipe the other day and the sun was just right-a perfect piece of art-no camera, RATS! I think Globalization is such a BORE. It won't be long before it will be hard to find any of these kind-hearted people that are so tuned into their environment *outside*.
Posted by OddipusRex on February 1, 2003, at 12:13:13
In reply to Re: Redneck Etiquette Rules » IsoM, posted by Ritch on February 1, 2003, at 10:54:49
I found this site that talks about dealing with racism, specifically ethnic humour. I think it says well what I think. I object to ethnic humour because I am a human not because I am a member of any particular group. It's from a conference for educators in Canada and I think it's appropriate. I come from sort of the same perspective as Lou. I think when kids are subjected to name calling and ethnic stereotypes that suggest they are ignorant, violent, and smelly it's bad. Whether their families are called wetbacks or gooks or rednecks, it doesn't make any difference. If you want to hurt someone, label them and attack their whole culture. This forum is a public place. Jokes that people may choose to tell in private are not appropriate here. I don't think anyone here is consciously trying to harm other people. But then I don't think I'm being some kind of unreasonable hypersensitive killjoy either, so what do I know?
http://www.bctf.ca/social/BuildingBridges/support/respond.html
Situation A: The Ethnic Joke
A group of co-workers are sitting around at lunch when one of them tells a particularly disgusting joke ridiculing a minority group. Some people laugh; others look embarrassed. No one makes any critical comments. What could you do in this situation?Response 1: Do Nothing
In such situations there are many excuses not to intervene. We think we might lose a friend or antagonise a co-worker. After all, ethnic humour is socially acceptable. What really happens when someone tells an ethnic joke is that an entire community is subjected to ridicule. Ethnic humour is a subtle form of racism that dehumanises whole peoples. Once people are dehumanised, it is not such a great step to actively discriminate against them.
We don't tell jokes about those we view with respect. We tend to tell jokes about those that our society looks down upon - Indo-Canadians, people from Newfoundland, Quebecois, etc. Rare indeed is the Canadian who tells ethnic jokes about Americans.
As long as ethnic humour goes unchallenged, it and racism will be socially acceptable.Response 2: Get Even
You denounce the offender as a racist, showing the offender that not everyone shares his or her beliefs. You might feel better because you have acted. The problem is that the offender is probably telling the joke out of insecurity or a need to be part of the group. This response might increase the insecurity that led to the joke in the first place, while you, yourself, may be seen as "overly sensitive".Response 3: Educate
You explain to the offender that the joke is based on inaccurate information, that the minority group concerned does not have the particular trait being ridiculed. This is a more positive response because you are not only challenging the behaviour, but the misinformation behind it. Unfortunately, until you get the offender to examine the insecurity which prompted the joke in the first place, he or she might not be open to the education.Response 4: Take the Fear Away
You say, "I feel uncomfortable when I hear that kind of a jokeî. Turn to the person sitting next to you and ask, "How do you feel?" Continue by explaining, "The reason it makes me feel uncomfortable is that I think it dehumanises people." By this time, the other people who looked embarrassed may be encouraged to discuss how they feel. In this way, without being directly challenged, the offender is encouraged to examine the feelings of insecurity that led to the telling of the joke. The offender may then be open to positive education.
Posted by jane d on February 1, 2003, at 12:27:38
In reply to Re: Sleeping as still as possible--Dinah, posted by jodie on February 1, 2003, at 0:49:03
> When my cat is laying on me, I try not to move, so I don't disturb him. I end up in these really funny positions, trying to make room for the pets. It's so kind of the dogs and cats to let us share "their" bed with them. Except when my dogs have gas (uhhhh it is horrible), I have to claim the bed back!!!
Jodie,
You got yours to "share" with you? How on earth did you convince them?
Jane, who was always told that indulgence of pets was a part of her non - redneck heritage
Posted by NikkiT2 on February 1, 2003, at 12:32:34
In reply to Ethnic Jokes, posted by OddipusRex on February 1, 2003, at 12:13:13
Have you never told a blonde joke?? Or anything along those lines??
Or are ones like that OK?
I am sitting here ttrying to think of a joke that doesn't take the mickey out of someone or something... I can't think of one off the top of my head.
Nikki
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 1, 2003, at 12:32:39
In reply to Ethnic Jokes, posted by OddipusRex on February 1, 2003, at 12:13:13
OR,
You wrote,[...I come from the same perspective as Lou...]. You also wrote ,[..this is a public place...].
I believe that you have added a good addition to my perspective,ie; that this board is [public].
Being a public board gives a different set of conciousness to the poster than if the poster said what was posted in [private].
This rest of your post is too comprehensive for me to be able to use the time and space available to me here to comment on, but it is worthy of more discussion.
Best regards,
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 1, 2003, at 12:37:18
In reply to Re: Ethnic Jokes » OddipusRex, posted by NikkiT2 on February 1, 2003, at 12:32:34
NikkiT2,
You wrote,[...take the {micky} out of something...]
Could you clarify what is meant by [....the {micky}..]? If you could, then I could be better able to discuss with you in regards to the subject in question here on this thread.
Lou
Posted by Dinah on February 1, 2003, at 12:46:32
In reply to Ethnic Jokes, posted by OddipusRex on February 1, 2003, at 12:13:13
I looked up the origin of the term redneck on google, and here is some of what I found.
http://www.sonic.net/College-in-a-Can/proftalk/319.html
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=rednecks
So it does, and always has, had a class connotation.
Posted by jane d on February 1, 2003, at 12:46:34
In reply to Re: standing by my view ... » Dinah, posted by jay on January 31, 2003, at 21:20:11
> Dinah:
>
> Well, first off, 'rednecks' aren't a social class, and they aren't a racial class. The term is used for someones social and political values.Jay,
I think this is a part of why you don't understand the conflict here. Your definition of redneck is not the only one that exists. It is one meaning but, at least here in the states, it can have all sorts of other meanings depending on who uses it. It has been used so often by people who believe that all members of the white, southern, working class are by definition bigots, who believe that uneducated means unintelligent, that it is part of the meaning of the term now. I think it's very dangerous to assume you know all the connotations of any phrase used here. There are so many differences not just between Canada and the US, but between different parts of the country and different classes as well.Jane, who doesn't understand half the terms used by the other Americans on this site, let alone the rest of you people.
Posted by jay on February 1, 2003, at 13:22:41
In reply to Re: Try to understand OTHER'S view » jay, posted by jane d on February 1, 2003, at 12:46:34
Hey, I have *no* problem making fun of bigots! I am not going to be "p.c." and say "ohhh..those KKK Nazis need love too...". You gotta draw the line *somewhere*..Jay
Posted by NikkiT2 on February 1, 2003, at 13:34:19
In reply to Re: Ethnic Jokes » NikkiT2, posted by Lou Pilder on February 1, 2003, at 12:37:18
Sorry.. thats a British thing.. its a polite way of saying "take the piss"
Nikki
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 1, 2003, at 13:54:52
In reply to Re: Ethnic Jokes » Lou Pilder, posted by NikkiT2 on February 1, 2003, at 13:34:19
NikkiT2,
You wrote what the British phrase ,[Micky], means. But could you clarify your replacement for {Micky}in regards to what [take the --- out of] means for the new pharase, also, is not understood by me. If you could clarify [...take the --- out of...], then I could have a better understanding of what you are writing and be better able to respond to your post.
Lou
Posted by dreamerz on February 1, 2003, at 14:07:29
In reply to British phrases » NikkiT2, posted by Lou Pilder on February 1, 2003, at 13:54:52
Hi Lou..
The phrases both mean to ridicule , make fun of.
Posted by NikkiT2 on February 1, 2003, at 14:32:48
In reply to British phrases » NikkiT2, posted by Lou Pilder on February 1, 2003, at 13:54:52
Sorry..
Yes, dreamerz said it better than me.. to make fun of...
nikki
Posted by jane d on February 1, 2003, at 14:34:18
In reply to I *don't* have/or want to *understand* bigotry! » jane d, posted by jay on February 1, 2003, at 13:22:41
>
> Hey, I have *no* problem making fun of bigots! I am not going to be "p.c." and say "ohhh..those KKK Nazis need love too...". You gotta draw the line *somewhere*..
>
> JayNeither do I. One of my favorite targets is the bigots on the left (and that would be my own side of the political fence by the way) who assume that you can make assumptions about someone's beliefs based on their social class or the accent they speak with or even whether they have a rifle mounted in their pickup truck and throw beer cans out the window.
To throw another stereotype into the mix this blind spot seems to be particularly common among educated, middle class residents of northeastern cities whose only exposure to southerners in on TV reruns. It's fascinating to see that this bias can cross national bounderies as well.
Jane,
who actually enjoyed some of the jokes and is trying to come up with the appropriate Northeastern Intellectual Snob counterparts (for private distribution only, of course)
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 1, 2003, at 15:09:01
In reply to Re: Ethnic Jokes » OddipusRex, posted by NikkiT2 on February 1, 2003, at 12:32:34
NikkiT2,
You wrote,[...trying to think of a joke that doesn't take the {micky}[which has been posted to mean],{to make fun of} out of someone or something...].
Are you saying, then, that posts that make fun of people, are to be permitted to be posted here because, in general, you can not think if a joke that does not [take the micky out of someone or something...]? If so, could you clarify if there could be a rational that you could propose that could be used to separate posts that make fun of people, or ridicule people, that could be deemed to be [not OK here], and those that could be deemed [OK here] to post? If you could, then we could discuss whether or not the post in question here could be deemed either [OK or not OK to post here], by the basis of your proposed rational. For example, could you use two examples to separate into either [OK or not OK] to post here by the basis of your proposed rational? If you could, then I could have a better understanding of your previous posts and be better able to discuss them with you.
Lou
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