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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7 to 31 of 93. Go back in thread:
Posted by tensor on November 24, 2001, at 20:59:00
In reply to Suicide, posted by Cass on November 23, 2001, at 23:57:55
and what problems would that solve? for fucks sake, get a grip. life can feel meaningless, i know, it does feel the same to me. but we only get one life, so don't waste it on a suicide. use all resourcers there is, know matter what the cost is. failure is not an option not even a last resort. what do you need? that is a qustion you need to ask yourself. then achieve that no matter what.
/tensor, that is severly insecure at the moment.
Posted by akc on November 24, 2001, at 21:23:34
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by tensor on November 24, 2001, at 20:59:00
Cass,
tensor's drunk -- he may mean every word -- but yet, I would not give it much thought at this time in his life. You and I both know that suicide would end all the pain you are feeling -- it may, however, not be the solution you really want. And it may cause others pain -- problems -- whatever you want to label it that you don't mean to cause. I hope you are reading our messages -- though few because it is the weekend. Write us -- stay connected -- let us know what is going on, whatever that may be. I care and want to know.
akc
Posted by quilter on November 24, 2001, at 22:20:09
In reply to Suicide, posted by Cass on November 23, 2001, at 23:57:55
Dear Cass-
I truly know what the fear of my future life is about and have been so tired it seems like even breathing takes too much thought. Please think about letting other people help you to carry the burdens instead of just abandoning them, and yourself, to the unknown. You say you have people you care about in your life. Please let them in to your heart and give them a chance to help you.
Loneliness and health problems are things that are easier to bear when we share them with others. Talk to someone before you act. PLEASE.
Quilter
P.s. Don't forget that nothing in this world is certain, even death. 4 attempts, 2 comas, and still here.
Posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 0:45:57
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by quilter on November 24, 2001, at 22:20:09
I'm still here, but barely. I'm so sad. I don't know what to say. I've given myself till Monday to think about it (suicide) some more. After Monday, no one is expecting me anywhere until Thursday, so I could do it on Monday, and be sure of not being intervened upon.
Posted by sar on November 25, 2001, at 0:50:44
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 0:45:57
dear Cass,
your message makes me sad.
are you willing to be hospitalised?
i don't know what i can say. i am almost frozen in empathetic shock. only a week or so i was posting about my own recurring suicidal thoughts...not just recurring, but obsessive and planned.
will you hold on with me? 'til monday at least?
love,
sar
Posted by judy1 on November 25, 2001, at 1:40:44
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 0:45:57
Dear Cass,
I am so glad you have made the decision to hold on until Monday at least and think things over. My therapist helped me once with putting my thoughts into 2 boxes: a fact box and a feeling box. In your fact box are people who love you (your family?) and your dog and people who genuinely care about you on this board- add me in. In your feeling box are your fears about your boyfriend and your sad feelings. From someone who has seriously attempted suicide more than once: hold onto the fact box, it won't change. But the feeling box does. I was in a hospital two years ago having my stomach pumped and suffered some brain damage- in fact I have to see a specialist Thursday. Today I am expecting a baby in another month and realize what pain I put myself and loved ones in by ignoring the fact box. I don't know if it is God or Fate, but let yourself be open to the possibilities of your feelings changing- they always do and I'm sure a lot of people can attest to that on this board. If you are afraid of being in a hospital then tell your psychiatrist that- I have an agreement with mine that when I reach your kind of despair as long as I call and talk to him about it he won't put me in. It's worked very well. My prayers are with you and please keep posting- judy
Posted by juliedealer on November 25, 2001, at 8:33:42
In reply to Suicide, posted by Cass on November 23, 2001, at 23:57:55
Cass,
I related when you said you were afriad of being "old and alone", and I have to add, and end up a "bag lady". I had these thoughts turn over in my head the last couple of years. I have spent so many years, not caring for myself, not looking to my own future, I have not done the leg work to build some kind of foundation (emotional or financial) I've always thought, I won't live that long. I've been so tired of being the emotional cripple, who would have any interest in me, who could tolerate living with me and my habits? Who could put up with this self-involved, sef-serving narcisistic person i've become? But after working with my new pdoc and actually find a therapist that I like I am seeing a glimmer of hope.
For me suicide has always been "plan B", and sometimes "Plan A".
julie
Posted by Phil on November 25, 2001, at 9:57:54
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 0:45:57
Feeling Good
Posted by Cass on June 25, 2001, at 0:33:49I just want everyone to know that I have been through terrible days and months of depression like you, but now I'm feeling great. Things are better. I feel engaged and responsive and interested. It's probably due to a combination of good meds and having found a supportive peer group. I'm hoping that anyone who is in despair feels better. I am just happy to report that I presently have no crisis. Things are fine and I'm wishing the same for you.
Cass, These states we get into are temporary. You can feel this way again..but not if you're dead.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I'm hoping that anyone who is in despair feels better."
>That's what your babble friends want for you now. Let our hope and love for you carry you through.
I've reviewed a lot of your post, Cass. You're good people. It's not hard to tell, even over the internet.
In one post you said you were going to church. I remember a quote I heard and repeated in Al-Anon and I still remember it..not easy for me.
It was about God as you understood him.
"Are you listening for thunder..while he softly whispers your name."I don't have any magic words, Cass. None of us do. The act of suicide is any of our personal choices. But it makes me incredibly sad when we let this disease beat us. You are so much more than how you 'perceive' yourself right now.
Phil
Posted by akc on November 25, 2001, at 11:59:27
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 0:45:57
Cass,
I'm glad you are still here.
You shared about your dog. I have two dogs myself. But it is my older dog that has kept me alive more than once. I look into his face and I just can't leave him. His name is Jean-Luc -- after Captain Picard in Star Trek. In my mind, I know people can go on without me -- but he is really attached to me. I just can't leave him behind. It brings tears to my eyes just to write this -- with him at my side.
Hold on to your dog -- and to your friends and to your garden. It is so hard to do, but focus on those things in this time of such overwhelming aloneness and sadness. Keep your dog next to you -- pet him or her constantly. Keep that physical connection.
I am glad that you wrote again. I hope you will keep doing so. I also still hope you will call your pdoc again and tell him what is going on -- share what you have shared with us. I know it is the weekend and you might not want to bother him on the weekend -- especially a holiday weekend -- but don't hesitate to do so first thing tomorrow. And let whoever answers the phone know that it is an emergency.
You matter to me.
akc
Posted by Fi on November 25, 2001, at 13:31:41
In reply to Suicide, posted by Cass on November 23, 2001, at 23:57:55
You already know from the previous messages how much members of this group are rooting for you.
I would add a few of the cold facts which help keep me going sometimes, about suicide.
1. It causes enormous pain and anguish to the people who love you(including your dog), and sends out ripples of distress to everyone who knew you. Far more than with an 'ordinary' death.
2. It breaks the taboo on suicide in the family, making your relatives more likely to do it in the future.
3. There is the risk it doesnt work and you end up with more medical problems to deal with.
4. You might have better times in the future- you dont know that now, and may find it impossible to believe, but at least allow the possibility. If you stop now, you wont stop the pain as you wont exist anymore. There isnt a stage 'after' when you will feel better.Something a therapist has said is to point out it is killing someone- murder- which is just as bad even tho you are doing it to yourself.
Please, please talk to someone (like a crisis line) now- dont wait. And as people keep suggesting, your pdoc as soon as possible.
If hospitalisation is suggested, think a little before dismissing it- keeping alive is incredibly important, even if it doesnt feel it just now.You have links with life, and are sad at the idea of leaving it, and have contacted us. Keep going a bit longer; decide to get help on Monday, not OD.
Fi
Posted by Glenn Fagelson on November 25, 2001, at 14:39:36
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 0:45:57
> I'm still here, but barely. I'm so sad. I don't know what to say. I've given myself till Monday to think about it (suicide) some more. After Monday, no one is expecting me anywhere until Thursday, so I could do it on Monday, and be sure of not being intervened upon.
Dear Cass,I agree with Fi!! What if your suicide attempt is a half job and you end up with incredible brain damage; that happens you know.
I have been where you are at right now, and every time I get to the point of wanting to commit suicide, I know it's time to call my
psychiatrist or therapist and get into the hospital. I hope you will do the same; you
deserve the best.Glenn
Posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 18:39:47
In reply to Re: Suicide » Cass, posted by Glenn Fagelson on November 25, 2001, at 14:39:36
Thank-you for your responses. Hospitalization is not an alternative in my mind. I don't see how it could possibly help. I am going to call my pdoc again tomorrow, but I am not going to tell him just how bad things are. I don't want to go to the hospital. If my family ever found out I was hospitalized, I would bear the stigma of being "crazy". Mostly they are very unsupportive. It's difficult to get them to treat me with respect as it is. I would never, ever live it down.
I know it sounds contradictory, but my self-esteem has never been higher than it is today. I don't feel badly about myself. I do not feel worthless. A lot of wonderful people appreciate me, love me and respect me. But that doesn't make my problems go away. I still have serious medical problems. I still have financial problems.
I love life. There was a storm a couple of days ago, and now the air is fresh and cool. The moon was stunning last night over the clouds. The beauty is intoxicating. I start to cry when I think of things in life that are so beautiful. I am going to lose those things. Tomorrow is my decision day. God help me.
Posted by sar on November 25, 2001, at 19:01:14
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 18:39:47
> Thank-you for your responses. Hospitalization is not an alternative in my mind. I don't see how it could possibly help. I am going to call my pdoc again tomorrow, but I am not going to tell him just how bad things are. I don't want to go to the hospital. If my family ever found out I was hospitalized, I would bear the stigma of being "crazy". Mostly they are very unsupportive. It's difficult to get them to treat me with respect as it is.
Cass, i know what you mean...but when it comes down to the final wire, you could be a live and who gives a sh*t what they think, and the only other option you're giving yourself is *dying*?
> I know it sounds contradictory, but my self-esteem has never been higher than it is today. I don't feel badly about myself. I do not feel worthless. A lot of wonderful people appreciate me, love me and respect me. But that doesn't make my problems go away. I still have serious medical problems. I still have financial problems.sometimes feeling better can be dangerous...energy to actually harm yourself. what are your medical problems? i have extrememly serious financial problems, there are people who can help you with that kind of stuff...are *bills* anything to lose your life over?
> I love life. There was a storm a couple of days ago, and now the air is fresh and cool. The moon was stunning last night over the clouds. The beauty is intoxicating. I start to cry when I think of things in life that are so beautiful. I am going to lose those things. Tomorrow is my decision day. God help me.
this is chillingly beautiful writing, Cass...
what is it that so, so bad? you obviously love certain aspects of life and have things that you mentioned previously--good friends, a cute dog, etc--why would you want to lose the intoxicating moon, the fresh air to death.
what kind of stigma is suicide compared to checking yourself into the hospital for a few days? would your whole family have to know...? and if they did, what's the worst that could happen?
i was in the hospital myself a couple of weeks ago. the doctor there told me that homicide is considered a more mentally healthy act than suicide...what he was trying to tell suicidal-me was that the minds of suicidal people are backwards and scattered, not-at-all healthy.
ah Cass, what can i say? talk to us, please. as i posted above, i can empathize with you...i am recurringly suicidal....maybe we can help each other...?
love,
sar
Posted by Katey on November 25, 2001, at 19:45:26
In reply to Re: Suicide » Cass, posted by sar on November 25, 2001, at 19:01:14
oh god Cass, you hit my core and im almost in tears. youre written eloquence is worth living for. have you ever considered writing as a career? it could be a way to get yourself out of the financial problems, or atleast a start.
do you know anyone who has a toddler, say a one or two year old? my nephew is 19 months and some days he is the only thing that keeps me teetering on the edge instead of falling off the cliff, spend time with children, watch their awe.
rent and watch American Beauty, or Life is Beautiful if you can handle the subtitles, rent something that will make you cry, to help get the emotion out.
Cass, please do not be the first person i have ever known to commit suicide. I wish that i could be a three year old child and i could just play with you- to show you more of the beauty of life than you've already seen in the nature around you. just hold on Cass. please?
Katey
Posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 21:43:50
In reply to Re: Suicide » Cass, posted by sar on November 25, 2001, at 19:01:14
>i have extrememly serious financial problems, there are people who can help you with that kind of stuff...are *bills* anything to lose your life over?
Maybe bills aren't something to lose your life over, but homelessness is. I'm deathly afraid of that. How can I hang onto my dog and my garden if I'm homeless?> i was in the hospital myself a couple of weeks ago. the doctor there told me that homicide is considered a more mentally healthy act than suicide...what he was trying to tell suicidal-me was that the minds of suicidal people are backwards and scattered, not-at-all healthy.
>People who commit homicide usually spend the rest of their lives in prison. It's funny that a pdoc would say that. Law and psychology don't always coincide. I know your point is that suicidal thinking is skewed, but I'd rather go to God than go to prison (not that I want to kill anyone. The people who've harmed me the most are already gone.)
I appreciate your posts a lot. I've been very touched by all of them and everyone else's posts too (except that one by Tensor). I just don't feel like there are too many alternatives for me.
Posted by akc on November 25, 2001, at 22:11:16
In reply to Re: Suicide » sar, posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 21:43:50
Cass,
I just don't want you to die. Keep hanging on. I know things appear hopeless. While your family is not supportive, try instead to hang onto those friends. Sometimes we have to turn our backs on family -- and replace them with friends. I don't know the answer on the financials -- I have been pretty bad off in the past, and somehow it always worked out. But that is simplistic for me to say -- I'm not in your shoes at this moment. But at this moment, however bad it is, you still have your dog and your garden -- so keep hanging on.
akc
Posted by judy1 on November 25, 2001, at 22:28:53
In reply to Re: Suicide » sar, posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 21:43:50
Cass,
You didn't mention what state you live in, if you do maybe one of us can suggest an agency that will provide you with temporary financial help until you feel better. I'm unable to work and on disability- is that an option for you? Take care- judy
Posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 22:46:32
In reply to Re: Suicide » Cass, posted by judy1 on November 25, 2001, at 22:28:53
I just spoke to my boyfriend for the first time in about a week. I was talking to him about my problems, and he was pretty cold and unsympathetic. That was about all I needed. He doesn't know I'm suicidal, but still, he shouldn't have been so cold. I feel worse than ever.
Posted by sar on November 25, 2001, at 22:50:38
In reply to Re: Suicide » sar, posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 21:43:50
dear baby,
it would be difficult for you to have dog/garden to being homeless immediately. i'm $10,000 in debt but not homeless...i still shop at banana republic... ;)
i've been touched by *your* posts. i think many of us have. have you considered that? is there anyone you can call, anyone you can talk to right now?
my e-mail address is hippie_feet@yahoo.com. please feel free to e-mail me anytime, i check it regularly.
when i was at my most suicidal, i became very rational. you seem like that right now...not too argumentative, just matter-of-fact...but it's not that way, i just want to let you know that debt can be a minor thing, that family shame is too common to be so shamed over it...today, before my nap, i was thinking of rope. i think of rope all the time to put around my neck. but urging you to live helps me realize the small validity of my own life...the wine i'm drinking, the cat named Piper i will have, and how i hope to one day work in the field of psychology.
so your decision is tomorrow. will you please write to us first? suicidal thoughts can be fleeting, but suicide is forever...of course you know this.
when i wrote of homicide vs. suicide, i think what the pdoc was trying to tell me is that it's very psychologically twisted to want to kill oneself. you might want to kill another in self-defeat, revenge, what-have-you, but supposedly--anthropologically--humans are supposed to want to be progenitors of their own species.
i've been suicidal for 10 years, so don't think that i buy this completely. i was just passing on a message.
oh Cass, i just know that we go through phases..."this too, shall pass"...i'm not religious, but you are in my kozmic prayers, baby.
love,
sar
Posted by Shar on November 25, 2001, at 23:45:13
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 22:46:32
Cass,
it's getting down to the wire now, Monday is coming too soon. Your quiet insistence that you want to commit suicide feels sad to me now. I have a LOT of suicidal ideation, have since my teens, and I sure do understand the appeal.I was thinking, though, about not loving ourselves enough to stay alive; to be so willing to pull our own plug; to feel so toxic to others; to feel so out of control over our lives.
I work my ass off to overcome that crap and go on another day. Not for any grand philosophical reason, but just because I do. I haven't found much rhyme or reason in life, there is very little that is predictable and even less that is assured.
Maybe I stay around so I can be a pain to others. Spread the misery around. Not a bad goal to spend a little time before you leave being annoying just for the hell of it.
Or, maybe that's just my idea of fun.
I do think the one thing you/we haven't given a chance is humor. There is this doc named Cohen who feels that humor/laughter is extremely healing. I wonder what would happen if you saw a few really funny movies, or something that made you belly laugh....wonder if you'd still feel like leaving.
The scientist in me is coming out.
When you consider everything, you should probably spend Monday doing all those things you never did because you were timid, shy, etc.---you know, the awful boss, the insolent sales clerk, the arrogant maitre de, the bozohead boyfriend. Be as rude and boisterous as you like. Hell, it might feel so good to do that you'll want to stay and do it some more.
Now, that's what I call a reason for living.
Don't wanna have to miss you,
Shar> I just spoke to my boyfriend for the first time in about a week. I was talking to him about my problems, and he was pretty cold and unsympathetic. That was about all I needed. He doesn't know I'm suicidal, but still, he shouldn't have been so cold. I feel worse than ever.
Posted by Greg A. on November 25, 2001, at 23:55:11
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 22:46:32
Hey Cass,
Cass - ignore the boyfriend. For every ten thousand or so of us insensitive, beer guzzling, football watching men, there is one good one out there!
My dear - you write too well to deprive us of your thoughts. We need you. Hang in there.
I never thought I would let myself be hospitalized, but like I said earlier, it was the best thing at the time. I learned that most people respond pretty well to someone seeking help for themselves. I got a lot of inquiries after about 'how did you feel?' or 'how did you know that you needed help?' These were from people who saw themselves not far from where I was. There but for the grace of God go I, sort of thing. For the odd one who now sits at the other end of the lunchroom from me - F . .. them. I just move and sit right next to them.Greg
Posted by Greg A. on November 25, 2001, at 23:57:37
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by juliedealer on November 25, 2001, at 8:33:42
Hi Ms. Julie! What's up??
I didn't win the lottery this weekend. Any chance of you rigging something up for me at the casino?
Good to hear from you . . .
Greg
Posted by fi on November 26, 2001, at 5:42:40
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 22:46:32
Sod the boyfriend!
Hey, you need to speak to a professional. If you were having a medical emergency like a heart attack you wouldnt expect your boyfriend to fix it. You're having a psychological emergency- give your pdoc or someone a chance to talk with you. Not that they have a magic wand, but give them a chance before you do anything drastic?
By the way, meant to say before that suicide is always messy, however much you organise things. Apart from setting a psychological bomb off for those that care for you, its also unavoidable that you traumatise the poor person who finds the body.
And that I know people who are old and alone but not unhappy, so dont start on things like that now. It really is true that you need to do things one day at a time.
There's people all over the world worrying about you- please hang on in there if you can.
fi
Posted by akc on November 26, 2001, at 6:42:52
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 22:46:32
Cass,
It is Monday in my world -- I'm not sure where you live, but I suspect it is Monday there also. Cass -- please reach out beyond this board today. Let your pdoc know what is going on.
This is hard stuff. Some things seem so clear, but I remember when I tried to take my life that other things did not. My solution was to try to ignore the things I could not solve with suicide. Suicide is the answer to one thing -- the pain that the loneliness, depression, fear causes. But it is not the answer to many other things. As others have pointed out, best laid plans don't always go as planned. Suicide will cause pain to those you do care about -- your friends, your dog. Someone has to wrap-up your affairs -- no matter how well you have planned, there are legal and practical matters to handle once you die.
Cass, you have much to offer -- yet, you are so focused on your plan it is hard for you to see beyond the problems you face and the solution you have devised. Letting someone else into the picture to help you draw up other possible solutions -- let me play devil's advocate -- what can it hurt? Your plan will still be there. Please call your pdoc. Please tell him everything. Even if you go to a hospital -- even if you get labeled "crazy" by your family -- your plan will still be there. Try this alternative first. If it fails, your plan will be there. If your plan succeeds, you will have no alternatives. I want you to keep doors open.
I want you to stick around, Cass.
I care about you.
akc
Posted by Phil on November 26, 2001, at 6:59:38
In reply to Re: Suicide » Cass, posted by fi on November 26, 2001, at 5:42:40
Cass,
Please call your doc or 911 and say three words that will save your life..."I need help."I'll sometimes walk into my docs office feeling like shit. I say something bleak and hopeless, as usual, and the doc makes a joke. I crack up and we move on.
Cass, stick around...please.
Phil
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