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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 44. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by pinkeye on April 24, 2005, at 16:17:12
If I were a therapist and I were a man - most of my clients would be women. How would I feel about almost all my clients coming and professing their liking for me and attraction to me? Espeically if I am in a happy marriage and am commited to my wife?
I think I would feel awful. Life would be so much stressful - becuase you have to listen to intimate details of so many women and participate in a virtual intimate relationship with all of them.. I would just so totally hate it.. Hour after hour, one woman after another coming and telling all the intimate details of her life, and telling me they like me.. I would retire from practice within a month.
Even if I am not in a marriage, I would still feel really bad about being perceived as the most important person in their lives by so many women at the same time. I would really really feel horrible in that position. I would never ever beocme a therapist myself.
Posted by pinkeye on April 24, 2005, at 16:48:22
In reply to If I were a therapist...., posted by pinkeye on April 24, 2005, at 16:17:12
And for the same reason I would never marry a therapist. I would feel so damn insecure..
Posted by annierose on April 24, 2005, at 17:16:03
In reply to Re: If I were a therapist.... » pinkeye, posted by pinkeye on April 24, 2005, at 16:48:22
It's definitely a difficult job, and emotionally tolling. It is the reason I feel they are entitled to charge what they can. They need to make a living. They have expenses. And they tend to so many injured souls.
They also are not invested emotionally as we are in the relationship. It's different for them.
Posted by Dinah on April 24, 2005, at 17:19:57
In reply to If I were a therapist...., posted by pinkeye on April 24, 2005, at 16:17:12
I'm not sure it would be too much different to be a female therapist.
It's a tough job, no doubt.
Posted by messadivoce on April 24, 2005, at 17:22:10
In reply to Re: If I were a therapist.... » pinkeye, posted by pinkeye on April 24, 2005, at 16:48:22
Well...I am having a bad grief day today and I was writing a letter to my T in my head.
"Dear T, How long will I have to grieve for you? That's a rhetorical question, of course. But it's a fair one. Knowing now what you know about me, would you have encouraged me to become attached to you? Would you even do therapy the way you do it, as you put it 'working with the relationship that develops between us'? Would you change your technique, because I can't be the only one who fell, and fell hard. Would you even practice therapy at all, or would you go back to school and become something more benign, like a podiatrist?"
You see, they really can help how attached we get. That's what psychodynamic therapy IS. You're in this relationship that they encourage and build with you, and then suddenly it's gone. Just kidding. The joke's on me, haha. But take a second and sit in their seat. "Hmm they say, most interesting. She's fallen so hard and so let me check her off as probably the worst case of transference I've seen this year. Wowza, I'll have to add this to the article I'm writing for the Therapists Who Lure Their Clients Into A False Sense of Security Journal."
By the way, I am not usually this bitter. Just today.
So you see, they really CAN help it. I know this because my very first T I had when I was 15 and stupid did nothing do build a relationship with me. I didn't get attached and termination was like, no problem dude! But then again she didn't help me either. Are helping and huring mutually exclusive? I'd ask my T, but conveniently for him, he's not around to debate these fascinating issues.
Posted by pinkeye on April 24, 2005, at 17:24:07
In reply to Re: If I were a therapist.... » pinkeye, posted by annierose on April 24, 2005, at 17:16:03
What you have said is true.. But there goes all my interest in therapy/psychology/psychiatry.. I once thought I would really want to be a therapist and it is such an exciting thing - but now, No - not ever. I am better left to my computers. I lost all interest - in everything related to therapy. I don't even want to go to therapy anymore.
I agree it is a noble job and all.. but I don't want any part of it. I am not capapble of handling all the secrets of mind etc. I am not even interested in my own mind's depths and feelings etc.. Not interested in reprocessing anything anymore. No childhood stories and no reliving anything anymore. Full Stop Everything.
Suddenly I have developed an aversion to all of it.
Posted by daisym on April 24, 2005, at 17:41:27
In reply to Re: If I were a therapist.... » annierose, posted by pinkeye on April 24, 2005, at 17:24:07
I hear so much suffering in your posts, so much hurt. I don't think therapy and therapist are the cause but sometimes it does feel that way. I understand your shut down. It does seem sometimes that we HAVE to stop thinking about it completely or we wil get overwhelmed with the pain.
The only way I know of to handle these situations is keep talking about them, to try to understand why you feel so strongly. It isn't easy. Nothing is as painful as unrequited longing.
I wish you peace soon.
Posted by daisym on April 24, 2005, at 17:55:43
In reply to Re: If I were a therapist.... » pinkeye, posted by annierose on April 24, 2005, at 17:16:03
"They also are not invested emotionally as we are in the relationship. It's different for them."
Annie,
I hope you left out the word "as" -- "not as emotionally invested" because I think they ARE invested in this relationship and do genuinely care. We've had lots of threads about caring for clients --is it real if they get paid, etc. I have clients and we get paid to do our jobs. But I still care very much for the kids on my caseload.
Sometimes I think we underestimate our role in the theraputic relationship. Most therapists are not stone and they want to engage in a two way dialog, without making it about them. Of course there is a power differential. And I'm sure they don't google us. But I think they do think about us outside of sessions, things remind them of us, and sometimes, they worry about us.
I resist this, fight against the feelings of wanting to be cared for. My therapist asks me a lot, "why is it so hard for you to have me hold you in my mind?" I always answer, "because it is dangerous." I think this is my primary task in therapy, to allow his caring and not have it freak me out completely.
But it is really hard, isn't it?
Posted by shrinking violet on April 24, 2005, at 18:21:14
In reply to Re: If I were a therapist.... » annierose, posted by pinkeye on April 24, 2005, at 17:24:07
Posted by annierose on April 24, 2005, at 20:25:35
In reply to Re: If I were a therapist.... » annierose, posted by daisym on April 24, 2005, at 17:55:43
Dasiy -
Yes, I left out "as". I do think my T cares for me. I couldn't pour out my soul to her if I didn't think I mattered. And I agree that it is a relationship, that we both play a part in the therapy.I do like feeling "cared for" by her. That is part of the good feelings I take away from my sessions. I know a part of me fights it too, because I get so irritated during my actual session time. But more than not, I leave feeling connected to another human. Someone understands and is understanding.
Dasiy, I do know from your posts that your T does care for you. More than any other T, he tells you, straight out. He demostrates that caring all the time. I am so happy that you found such a caring T while sorting through your past hurts and traumas.
I am glad that you are back in town. I missed your posts on this board. I hope all is well with your husband.
Posted by Dinah on April 24, 2005, at 20:37:53
In reply to If I were a therapist...., posted by pinkeye on April 24, 2005, at 16:17:12
I certainly would love to go to school and learn about it.
But my therapist shares the frustration of actually being a therapist, and I can't say I'd like that *at all*. Managed care, short term clients, court mandated clients or clients who come in because their spouse forces them to. Rejection, anger directed at you.
And I think he normally works with garden variety anxiety and depression with CBT. I have a feeling I'm one of his more difficult clients.
I think many of those of us who have had a good experience would like to be able to give someone else the same experience.
But the real world isn't always like that.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 24, 2005, at 21:04:16
In reply to Re: If I were a therapist.... » pinkeye, posted by messadivoce on April 24, 2005, at 17:22:10
Oh wow!
Okay, so I am pretty messed up over a termination myself but I just had to say
I LOVED YOUR POST!
It cracked me up!
The tone was so perfect!
I love it!I'm not sure about the helping and hurting part. I don't know. The t's I have worked with did everything they could to DISCOURAGE transference - but then that didn't work out so well. I still got attached even though I tried my hardest not to. I am currently grieving over stupid old pea-doc who lied to me and f*cked me around a hell of a lot. So sometimes we get attached DESPITE them. I don't know. If you care then I suppose you do open yourself up to be hurt. That is why trust is so hard and can be so fragile. But I think we do need to care. Because thats what makes it meaningful. And thats what helps at the end of the day. But I don't really know. Maybe I am just talking out of my *ss...
Posted by alexandra_k on April 24, 2005, at 21:09:22
In reply to I'd love to be a therapist in theory » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on April 24, 2005, at 20:37:53
I want to learn the theory theory theory.
I LOVE theory.
Unfortunately it all seems geared towards practice practice practice and I don't think I ever would could or should do that.
Its not fair.
Why can't you just learn the theory?
I know you can read it on your own
But it isn't as economical on your time or as productive as when you go to classes and have assessments and tests and classmates to cram with.
I even thought about doing medicine
10 years or however many of learning about constipation and boils just so I may have a chance of specialising in psychiatry so I can learn the theory theory theory. Sigh. I'd love to learn psychoanalytic theory. I've learned a bit about CBT - but it just made me want to puke.
Posted by Dinah on April 24, 2005, at 22:02:49
In reply to Re: I'd love to be a therapist in theory » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on April 24, 2005, at 21:09:22
I think the only way I'd learn pure psychoanalytic theory is with someone explaining it to me in the places I get stuck. Reading just doesn't do it.
Reading about CBT, especially the B part, tends to annoy me. It seems like they've missed some vital part of humanity with behavior modification. But other parts of it are useful, and I suppose we all need to sit down and figure out when we're distorting sometimes.
I like learning about the interpersonal relational therapies best - short of pure Freudian or Jungian analytic. I just have a hard time believing I'm all *that* complex. :) If I feel that CBT reduces me to something a bit less than human, I feel that analytic therapy gives me waaaay too much credit. But Yalom or Kottler, now that seems juuuust right.
Which is not to say I wouldn't like to learn Freud or Jung. I'd just need a lot of help.
If you ever want to revive the old PB book club, with psychology as a topic, let me know. I think I'd enjoy reading the harder stuff with people who are a bit or more than a bit smarter than I am.
Posted by annierose on April 24, 2005, at 22:08:53
In reply to Re: I'd love to be a therapist in theory » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on April 24, 2005, at 22:02:49
Not to take this thread way off topic, but Dinah, you mentioned something over in social about "collecting" therapy stories. Besides Yalom, are there any fiction books you have enjoyed re:therapy. I'd be interested. Thanks in advance.
Posted by messadivoce on April 24, 2005, at 23:38:34
In reply to Re: If I were a therapist.... » messadivoce, posted by alexandra_k on April 24, 2005, at 21:04:16
I'm glad you find the sarcastic, smart *ssed side of me amusing. :-) I am usually able to talk reasonably about this termination, but not today. Today it hurts like hell. Ouch Ouch Ouch.
My T was psychodynamic, so he encouraged me to open up and trust him. That was like, the major theme of my therapy. TRUST. I'm not like your dad, he said. I'm not trying to hurt you. You're safe. It's safe. Be open. Tell me everything.
If we had had all the time in the world, then maybe it would have turned out okay. Maybe we might have ended up moving into the same nursing home to continue treatment. ;-) So here's a proposal. I think that in order to practice psychodynamic therapy, there should be a law that the practitioner must allow at least 20 years for this. Anything less is cause for a lawsuit, and could end up causing irreparable harm to the patient. I mean, it just doesn't work to encourage trust and openness and then only have a VERY limited timeframe in which to work. It's pretty unreasonable to call all those feelings forth that probably take years to work through, and then say, "Okay, put them all back now, you should be cured."
It's like picking up an oyster and yelling, "Make a pearl NOW, dammit!!!"
Posted by Dinah on April 25, 2005, at 0:03:18
In reply to You'll have to excuse me... » alexandra_k, posted by messadivoce on April 24, 2005, at 23:38:34
Posted by Shortelise on April 25, 2005, at 1:00:19
In reply to If I were a therapist...., posted by pinkeye on April 24, 2005, at 16:17:12
Posted by messadivoce on April 25, 2005, at 1:38:27
In reply to eeeeeeeeeeeeeek (nm), posted by Shortelise on April 25, 2005, at 1:00:19
Posted by alexandra_k on April 25, 2005, at 1:42:00
In reply to You'll have to excuse me... » alexandra_k, posted by messadivoce on April 24, 2005, at 23:38:34
...For 20 years.
The most I have ever had anybody commit to is 8 months.
Wah!
Posted by Shortelise on April 25, 2005, at 12:06:06
In reply to Why are you eeeeking? (nm) » Shortelise, posted by messadivoce on April 25, 2005, at 1:38:27
because just thinking about this short circuits my mind. I can't go here...
:-)
ShortE
Posted by pinkeye on April 25, 2005, at 13:16:11
In reply to Re: If I were a therapist.... » pinkeye, posted by daisym on April 24, 2005, at 17:41:27
That's true. But I don't understand why I am so hurt. I have tried my best to understand, but I can't seem to fathom. It doesn't make sense. And I have tried seeking out for help - from both my ex T and my current T. And I don't think they know how to help either. And really it wasn't all that bad..but just that I am hurt way more than it warrants. I must be stupid or something
Posted by antigua on April 25, 2005, at 13:47:42
In reply to :-) Agreed. New law. (nm) » messadivoce, posted by Dinah on April 25, 2005, at 0:03:18
Thank goodnes! That means I have six years left. PHew. Hope I can make it.
antigua
Posted by pinkeye on April 25, 2005, at 14:07:09
In reply to You'll have to excuse me... » alexandra_k, posted by messadivoce on April 24, 2005, at 23:38:34
But I am not sure about the lawsuit thing.. Never in favor of lawsuits myself. Excpet in eggregious irresponsibility cases.
Posted by fallsfall on April 25, 2005, at 17:49:14
In reply to Re: If I were a therapist.... » daisym, posted by pinkeye on April 25, 2005, at 13:16:11
>but just that I am hurt way more than it warrants
This is usually a good indication to me that transference is at work...
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