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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dinah on December 14, 2003, at 15:15:02
In reply to Re: therapist crying---both male and female » Dinah, posted by zenhussy on December 14, 2003, at 14:51:10
I'm not usually into gender stereotypes. And generally eschew them totally. Especially since by all accounts, I share more characteristics with the stereotypical man than the stereotypical woman. But in the admittedly small sample size of men and women in the mental health profession that I've seen, the women were softer, and the men more likely to be abrasive or distant. And my therapist is juuuuust right. :)
But like I said, it's a small sample size. Maybe ten or so, counting consultations and testing and interviews. And it may have something to do with different parts of the country too.
Posted by Karen_kay on December 14, 2003, at 15:15:45
In reply to Re: Chuckle..., posted by tabitha on December 14, 2003, at 14:53:14
> Regarding therapists crying.. mine cried in my very first session-- I don't think it was a real session, more like the interview session. But she hasn't done it since! Maybe it was her standard marketing ploy.
><<<Wow! It's like she "cried on the first date!" If she were my girlfriend I'd dump her :) I don't know, I might be quite turned off by a therapist who cried the first time we met and interviewed. It would show a pattern of poor self control in my eyes. I need a "manly-man", someone who doesn't cry, especially since I rarely cry. But, it also shows a lot of compassion as well. I guess it depends on what you are looking for. I suppose they are good at picking up on that. But, if my therapist cried the first time I interviewed with him, I wouldn't be seeing him today. What a shame that would be. Different strokes for different folks.
How did you feel when she started crying?Wait just a second...I just reread the post... Only the first time.. Have you discussed the subject matter in greater detail to her? And she hasn't cried since? Maybe her hormones where out of whack that day or something.... Sounds suspicious though... I would think something wasn't right, but I don't trust people much...
Posted by tabitha on December 14, 2003, at 15:20:20
In reply to Re: Chuckle..., posted by crushedout on December 14, 2003, at 15:00:46
> wow, that's pretty wild! do you mind sharing what she cried in response to, if only vaguely? i'm curious. i bet it was genuine.
I told her about something traumatic that happened when I was a teenager. I was such a therapy virgin then.. totally disconnected from my feelings. I can't remember how it came up, but I was probably testing her. I had told this story to nobody except my ex-husband, who told me it was stupid that I was still thinking about it. And here she actually CRIED when hearing it. I was so hooked. I really needed some TLC.
Posted by Dinah on December 14, 2003, at 15:24:19
In reply to Re: Chuckle..., posted by tabitha on December 14, 2003, at 14:53:14
Cried in the consultation session? Wow. How did that factor into whether or not you saw her?
I was so out of touch with my feelings when I started therapy that seeing a potential therapist cry would have sent me running as fast as my legs could carry me. But of course, I was so out of touch with my feelings that my therapist was in no danger of feeling anything either. He had a hard time staying awake the first couple of years.
(And yeah, my husband is really smart and really funny. It's what I found so attractive about him.)
Posted by Dinah on December 14, 2003, at 15:25:40
In reply to Re: Chuckle..., posted by Dinah on December 14, 2003, at 15:24:19
Posted by Karen_kay on December 14, 2003, at 15:26:08
In reply to Re: Chuckle... » crushedout, posted by tabitha on December 14, 2003, at 15:20:20
Was it like sobbing crying or tears in her eyes crying? Was she crying because of what happened or because your ex said it was stupid that you continued to think about it? And I assume you have talked about this in great detail since, correct? And she hasn't shed a tear? That seems odd. Almost like she knew that you needed support and showed you that she would give it to you. Have you thought to ask why? I certainly would. But I have a big mouth...
Posted by crushedout on December 14, 2003, at 15:44:54
In reply to Re: Chuckle... » crushedout, posted by tabitha on December 14, 2003, at 15:20:20
> > wow, that's pretty wild! do you mind sharing what she cried in response to, if only vaguely? i'm curious. i bet it was genuine.
>
> I told her about something traumatic that happened when I was a teenager. I was such a therapy virgin then.. totally disconnected from my feelings. I can't remember how it came up, but I was probably testing her. I had told this story to nobody except my ex-husband, who told me it was stupid that I was still thinking about it. And here she actually CRIED when hearing it. I was so hooked. I really needed some TLC.
>
>yeah, see, that sounds so therapeutic. that's how it is when my t cries for me (when i can't, or even when i do). it makes me feel validated and cared for. like my problems really matter. and not just to me. and it shows me how to feel my own feelings, too.
Posted by tabitha on December 14, 2003, at 17:00:33
In reply to Re: Chuckle... » tabitha, posted by crushedout on December 14, 2003, at 15:44:54
yes, it was very validating. I was thinking, wow, you mean it's OK to actually feel sad about what happened? It was like she was showing me the appropriate response, sort of corrective emotional mirroring, like parents are supposed to do for small children. All I could feel about the memory was shame, and shame on top of that for not being over it already.
Posted by Dinah on December 15, 2003, at 17:51:15
In reply to Re: Chuckle... » crushedout, posted by tabitha on December 14, 2003, at 17:00:33
Well now I have a dilemma. I told my therapist about this thread, and he says he *has* cried occasionally (very occasionally he later corrected it to say). He wanted to know why it would bother me if he did it with me, and I told him it would make me feel like I needed to censor what I said so as not to upset him.
But now that I know he's cried with others, no matter how infrequently, I feel mildly hurt that nothing I have said has touched him as much as his other clients. :( I figure this is one of those cases of therapist overdisclosure. I didn't really need to know he had been moved enough to cry by other clients.
Posted by crushedout on December 15, 2003, at 23:48:47
In reply to Re: therapist crying, posted by Dinah on December 15, 2003, at 17:51:15
ouch. did you tell him how it made you feel?
> Well now I have a dilemma. I told my therapist about this thread, and he says he *has* cried occasionally (very occasionally he later corrected it to say). He wanted to know why it would bother me if he did it with me, and I told him it would make me feel like I needed to censor what I said so as not to upset him.
>
> But now that I know he's cried with others, no matter how infrequently, I feel mildly hurt that nothing I have said has touched him as much as his other clients. :( I figure this is one of those cases of therapist overdisclosure. I didn't really need to know he had been moved enough to cry by other clients.
>
>
Posted by DaisyM on December 16, 2003, at 0:10:51
In reply to Re: therapist crying, posted by Dinah on December 15, 2003, at 17:51:15
I bet it had more to do with his personal "state" than the topic or person. For example --maybe he was really tired when his kids were little, or recently had lost someone and the topic in therapy came to close to home. Even hormones play in...I wouldn't read it like you did. You obviously have touch something in him or he wouldn't still be your therapist after all this time!
Posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 9:27:51
In reply to Re: therapist crying » Dinah, posted by crushedout on December 15, 2003, at 23:48:47
Yeah, I told him. He said it very very rarely happened. And maybe he was thinking about group situations, not therapy situations. Maybe therapy situations gave him some extra structure so that he might feel like crying but didn't. And he said that yes, his wince was quite genuine and not due to a leg cramp or anything, and tried to put on an empathetic face to show me that he remembered the incident.
Overall, it reminded me just why I trust him so much. He is really rotten and unconvincing as a liar.
Posted by crushedout on December 16, 2003, at 9:32:43
In reply to Re: therapist crying » crushedout, posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 9:27:51
> Yeah, I told him. He said it very very rarely happened. And maybe he was thinking about group situations, not therapy situations. Maybe therapy situations gave him some extra structure so that he might feel like crying but didn't. And he said that yes, his wince was quite genuine and not due to a leg cramp or anything, and tried to put on an empathetic face to show me that he remembered the incident.
>
> Overall, it reminded me just why I trust him so much. He is really rotten and unconvincing as a liar.ooh, that *is* a good quality. you're a lucky woman.
Posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 9:34:50
In reply to Re: therapist crying » Dinah, posted by DaisyM on December 16, 2003, at 0:10:51
Yes, perhaps so. And perhaps it was countertransference on his part. That it wasn't that he cared about them more, but that they were discussing things that brought up painful issues from his own past.
He has often said that he would have to feel caring for me to work with me for so long, or maybe that was after working with me so long - something like that. I guess maybe that's true. I always tend to see myself as a barnacle with the relationships I care about, so that he really would have had a hard time shaking me. :)
I might bring it up again briefly to tell him I spent some time trying, and failing, to think of moving incidents from my past. Which makes me feel like a huge fraud. What right do I have to take up therapy space when I have none?
Posted by crushedout on December 16, 2003, at 9:41:03
In reply to Re: therapist crying » DaisyM, posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 9:34:50
you know, dinah, it could also be your personality. i mean, you have a certain edge to you, this dry wit/sarcastic edge, that may make you seem less pathetic than, for example, i tend to be in therapy. which may make people less apt to cry. but that doesn't mean they care less. you know what i mean?
> Yes, perhaps so. And perhaps it was countertransference on his part. That it wasn't that he cared about them more, but that they were discussing things that brought up painful issues from his own past.
>
> He has often said that he would have to feel caring for me to work with me for so long, or maybe that was after working with me so long - something like that. I guess maybe that's true. I always tend to see myself as a barnacle with the relationships I care about, so that he really would have had a hard time shaking me. :)
>
> I might bring it up again briefly to tell him I spent some time trying, and failing, to think of moving incidents from my past. Which makes me feel like a huge fraud. What right do I have to take up therapy space when I have none?
>
>
Posted by Karen_kay on December 16, 2003, at 9:54:32
In reply to Re: therapist crying » Dinah, posted by crushedout on December 16, 2003, at 9:41:03
Just a thought.. Have you ever cried during a session? That may also have soemthign to do with it as well. I mean that if someone is so distraught about a particular issue that they are moved to tears, it may have caused him to react the same way. You do tend to be rather dry, therefore I don't really see you crying much during therapy. I could be wrong granted... But, I understand exactly how you feel. I see how it hurts that you've spent so much time with your therapist and haven't seen the range of all of his emotions.
And you do have the right to "take up therapy space" as you put it. Every person's issues varies in degree. And it sounds like you are making progress with your therapist. Don't let it get you down because your therapist hasn't cried. He said that it has happened very rarely. I suspect on your last day (GASP!) he'll cry to see you leave!
Posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 9:58:15
In reply to Re: therapist crying » Dinah, posted by crushedout on December 16, 2003, at 9:41:03
I'm not the same person at all in therapy. I'm a pathetic mewling whining grasping dependent little worm. Especially mewling and dependent. I absolutely disgust myself sometimes. I walk out of therapy nearly every session saying "I am NOT going to do that next time" but guess what?
I told him what you guys said on this thread, because I was frankly delighted, and he appeared nonplussed. I guess he couldn't relate it to the whimpering and humorless wretch who presents herself each week to therapy.
I will however admit that for my first five to six or seven years of therapy, I was pretty out of touch with my emotions. I rarely cried. It's possible that by the time I got in touch enough with my own emotions to make my stories affecting, he had heard them all before.
Posted by crushedout on December 16, 2003, at 10:02:40
In reply to Re: therapist crying » crushedout, posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 9:58:15
i'm sorry what was it you told him we said that you were delighted about? i'm confused.
> I'm not the same person at all in therapy. I'm a pathetic mewling whining grasping dependent little worm. Especially mewling and dependent. I absolutely disgust myself sometimes. I walk out of therapy nearly every session saying "I am NOT going to do that next time" but guess what?
>
> I told him what you guys said on this thread, because I was frankly delighted, and he appeared nonplussed. I guess he couldn't relate it to the whimpering and humorless wretch who presents herself each week to therapy.
>
> I will however admit that for my first five to six or seven years of therapy, I was pretty out of touch with my emotions. I rarely cried. It's possible that by the time I got in touch enough with my own emotions to make my stories affecting, he had heard them all before.
Posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 10:03:59
In reply to Re: therapist crying.Dinah, posted by Karen_kay on December 16, 2003, at 9:54:32
Last day???!!!!!
There'll be no last day. :)
Either he'll die or I'll die, of natural causes of course. That's not a threat or anything. lol.
And if he retires or moves or whatever, I've told him the second he tells me, he's ceased to be my therapist and I'm out of there. No termination phase discussion of him abandoning me for me! How can you discuss your abandonment with the jerk who's abandoning you? I asked him to have an escort bring me directly to the hospital, and I'm not sure if I hope he'll remember.
Ummm.... All this only applies to me of course. I'm in full favor of everyone else going through a meaningful termination phase and getting referrals to other therapists.
Posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 10:04:36
In reply to Re: therapist crying » Dinah, posted by crushedout on December 16, 2003, at 10:02:40
Posted by crushedout on December 16, 2003, at 10:52:29
In reply to Re: the dry humor thing. :) (nm) » crushedout, posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 10:04:36
Posted by LostGirl on December 16, 2003, at 11:13:02
In reply to Re: therapist crying, posted by crushedout on December 14, 2003, at 14:02:31
This is a great topic.
I could not cry my whole adult life. In therapy with my first therapist, I remembered how as a small kid my mother used to say "stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about" and remembering that clicked. I had thought there was something wrong with me because I never cried. Like I could be at a sad movie and everyone is crying, and I would get the plot, but not have that reaction. Then, when I would talk about childhood incidents, from time to time my therapist would look on the verge of crying. At times he would wipe the corner of an eye once. His showing his reaction so genuinely touched me and showed me that these things were sad, and worth being taken seriously, rather than dismissed. Then I got to the point where now and then I felt I was on the verge of being on the verge of crying. And eventually, with him, I started to occasionally cry. For the first time in about 30 years. His gentle warmth and sensitivity meant a tremendous amount to me because it was what let me be able to look at things differently and stop thinking I always have to be tough and strong and just put aside and deny anything that is upsetting. I never knew I was afraid to be vulnerable, but him letting himself show that, allowed me to learn to feel vulnerable feelings.
However, down the line, he messed up in another way. Now I am with a cold fish therapist, and she drives me nuts because she always has this stupid grin on her face no matter what I'm talking about and now I'm back to not really being able to get feelings out, am bottled up again.
Posted by Karen_kay on December 16, 2003, at 13:29:43
In reply to Re: therapist crying » Karen_kay, posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 10:03:59
Glad to see you keep an open mind when it comes to reaching an end point in regards to therapy.. Ha ha! I wish I could keep my therapist for the rest of my life, but I'm afraid he'd tire of me. Alas, I fear he's already tired of me. No, I doubt he's tired of me. I'm intelligent, beautiful and articulate. And I pay my bill on time. I would think he'd want to keep me around forever, as long as I continue to show signs of improvement. Hmmmm.... if only I weren't leaving this blasted town soon... Maybe could talk my daddy into leaving too? Not likely.
Posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 13:36:47
In reply to Forever therapy for all??, posted by Karen_kay on December 16, 2003, at 13:29:43
Are you leaving the area soon?
Posted by Karen_kay on December 16, 2003, at 13:39:35
In reply to Re: therapist crying, posted by LostGirl on December 16, 2003, at 11:13:02
I talked to him again about crying. Told him I'd been crying all week, but because of birth control pills (go figure!). I told him I'd be touched if he cried, but if he sobbed I'd be overwhelmed. He said it's because my emotions are numb at this point (duh!) and I don't know how to react to displays of emotion. He told me he would try not to cry. Now I feel bad because I almost want to see him cry. I'm certain I do want to see him cry. Not just out of curiousity, or to make sure "he cares about me", but also to validate the fact that it is ok to cry. Why do I always have to open my big mouth? Oh well, guess I can't have it both ways.. Maybe if I start crying, he'll follow suit. He already told me he's a crybaby. He said he cries during commercials. He said his daughter asked him once during a commercial, "Daddy, is that Baby Jesus?" and he started crying. He sounds like a perfect daddy, doesn't he?
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