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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 31. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Racer on September 11, 2006, at 13:39:06
Seriously -- I realized last night that, despite not getting anything done the past few weeks, and being depressed, and having my intrusive thoughts that really mess with my mind and my view of myself, I don't actually feel that bad about myself.
In fact, I feel pretty good, overall, about myself.
I do a lot of things well, and I've got a lot of good qualities that I not only value in other people, but also manage to value in myself.
So self-esteem isn't really the problem...
I haven't quite identified the problem, beyond the general outlines. I guess that's the next step.
Some of it is certainly self-consiousness that comes from voices from my past. That's where I get to saying nasty things to myself -- like in the beginning of this post, where I was saying, "Sheesh, how selfish and self centered you are! All those sentences starting with 'I'!" Uh, Racer? You're writing about your own self image and self esteem. Doesn't it seem reasonable that those subjects would involve a lot of sentences with "I" as the subject?
A lot of it, still, is that intrusive thought/PTSD stuff from The Agency From Hell. I still shut down when I start to get upset about something, with that sense of being trapped that I used to get there. The Therapist Without A Clue used to put me in a little room, where I was backed into a tiny corner, with her desk on one side and a counter with a lot of plants on the other -- plants hanging over the counter, so I felt as though they were right on top of me -- and she was very much between me and the door. I felt very trapped in that room, and it set off a problem where I started to sit IN chairs -- feet on the seat, in as small a space as I could get, knees in front of my chest, elbows pressed against thighs -- and needed to make myself smaller and hold myself in ever tighter control. Thus, my relapse into AN. And the control thing is still a major issue. She would talk over me, and if I tried to say that I was upset or angry about anything, she'd tell me that was a sign of my psychopathology, that I had a personality disorder, and that I had to "get myself under control."
So, of course, I did. By controlling my eating, and my activity, I managed to control my expression of my moods. Now, though, my weight is up so far, I feel totally out of control, weak, all sorts of terrible things -- including what would be anger if I didn't shut myself down so far.
So, general outlines are basically coming from my past, and from other people. (Of course, I'm also doing the "oh, that's abdicating responsibility, which is a sign of psychopathology and disordered personality" and so on... Another thing I'm trying to work on with my T...)
And there's a ton of anxiety involved in all this, which is all wrapped up in the OCD end of the spectrum, and that leads to intrusive, obsessive thoughts that lead to wondering if this or that or the next thing is a sign of a personality disorder, etc. That's my big intrusive thought: "OMG! Maybe she was right! Maybe I do have a personality disorder!" No matter that my T says not, that my husband read all the criteria for ALL the PDs and says none fit me, that GG has told me I don't, etc. Someone whom I had and have no respect for, someone I think is living in a bit of a fantasy where she is the Angel of Enlightenment for her clients, someone I don't think is even competent says something -- and I give it more weight than I do to all sorts of people I have much more trust and respect for. Heck, I have read through all the criteria for the PDs, and I do recognize some of them that fit me -- ALL in the Cluster C, so not even in the right cluster -- and know that I don't meet all the criteria for any of them, and that most of the criteria I do meet are more from an Axis I disorder -- Anxiety/OCD -- than from anything on Axis II. (And most of the criteria that do fit are state-related, from starvation.)
So, my self esteem is pretty good. Anxiety is a major problem, though. And I do have that "I have to be perfect" thing going on, but that's still not so much self-esteem, as having to do with approval from others. Not so much, I don't think, that I need others to approve so I can approve. I think, although I could be wrong, that it's about staying safe from others, by being Good Enough.
Does that make sense?
And, since I've posted this and it's all about me, does anyone else here find anything in this resonating for you?
Posted by Racer on September 11, 2006, at 13:39:40
In reply to Epiphany -- my self esteem's mostly pretty good, posted by Racer on September 11, 2006, at 13:39:06
Posted by Dinah on September 11, 2006, at 17:57:43
In reply to Epiphany -- my self esteem's mostly pretty good, posted by Racer on September 11, 2006, at 13:39:06
Good for you!!!
It kind of resonates, because it kind of echoes my thought processes about what you've written about yourself.
Now we just need to find you a new way to feel safe from others. :)
I don't think I advocate my method, so I won't mention it.
Posted by Racer on September 11, 2006, at 18:19:34
In reply to Re: Epiphany -- my self esteem's mostly pretty goo » Racer, posted by Dinah on September 11, 2006, at 17:57:43
You know, it's kinda funny, doncha think, that someone who just this morning posted that her self-esteem is actually pretty good STILL ISN'T WORTHY OF [fill in the blank]... Guess I'll have to work on this...
There are a couple of things that have been on my list of things to order/buy lately. One is a new car stereo, because mine is no longer working. Even the LCD readout is only showing random marks, and there's no sound at all. I don't mean Blaupunkt -- I mean "let's see what's the cheapest at Best Buy." So, think maybe $200, if I include new speakers. (Right now, they're the factory speakers from Toyota back in 1991. But, they work, so speakers are a luxury, and I may skip them.) The other is a backpack on wheels for my school books. I already know I can buy the one I want online for $75.
And I haven't bought either.
My husband said the other day he was surprised I hadn't done either yet, but the fact is I'd wait for his permission to buy anything like that. Which kinda tells me that I don't know that I'm worth $200, or even $75 plus shipping.
{sigh} Still, in terms of the things I was thinking about this morning, maybe I'm not doing so bad, huh?
Posted by Dinah on September 11, 2006, at 18:48:56
In reply to Bah! Realized the flaw..., posted by Racer on September 11, 2006, at 18:19:34
I dunno. I'd probably do the same. I authorize even relatively small nonfood or nonstandard joint expenditures with my husband.
Are you sure it's because you don't think you're worth it? Could there be other reasons?
He said he was surprised you hadn't already done it. Does that mean he knew about it before? Or that he was surprised you wanted to discuss it with him at all?
Money's a funny issue, and has a lot of family culture considerations about it.
Posted by Racer on September 11, 2006, at 20:56:04
In reply to Re: Bah! Realized the flaw... » Racer, posted by Dinah on September 11, 2006, at 18:48:56
I don't know what my husband was saying, and couldn't -- in the moment -- figure out what to ask about it. (Still not entirely sure how I'd ask...) He did know about both expenditures, since we'd gone out together looking for what to buy. We picked out the rolling backpack together, but he didn't like the black one, which is the one I'd have ordered, so I didn't order it. He said, when I told him that, that his opinion on that really didn't matter, that I could have gone ahead...
Money is a sore topic between us, and I'm terrible about it. I'm not working, and didn't earn as much as he did even when I was working. (Think: maybe 30% of what he earns, even in my best year.) He says things about money, like telling me that he'll pay for me to go to school, and not to worry about it not being worth it -- longer story -- but then every so often he comes out with something absolutely counter to that idea.
And sometimes I get the very strong feeling that I'm supposed to do all the housework because I don't earn money. He denies that, but he also doesn't ever do ANYTHING around here to help. That's a real problem for me, especially when I'm in "shut down" mode, like now, and can't do anything myself...
{sigh} I dunno...
Yes, I do know. I'm depressed, but honestly think pretty well about myself. The depression is a bigger and bigger problem, too. I'm getting to wanting to cry even when I'm alone and not trying to communicate with anyone else. Guess that means it's progressing... Ugh.
Posted by Phillipa on September 11, 2006, at 21:26:15
In reply to It is that... » Dinah, posted by Racer on September 11, 2006, at 20:56:04
I have mixed feelings on that as part of me says it's healty to be able to cry now and in front of people and part of me says oh I must be more depressed as I'm crying and didn't used to. But maybe I just finally realized that I can no longer deny certain things in my life and take responsiblility for the. And money I have to pay all my own expenses even medical from my SSDI. My husband feels no responsibility for any of my expenses so you guys are pretty lucky. Love Phillipa
Posted by ClearSkies on September 12, 2006, at 4:50:13
In reply to It is that... » Dinah, posted by Racer on September 11, 2006, at 20:56:04
>
> Money is a sore topic between us, and I'm terrible about it. I'm not working, and didn't earn as much as he did even when I was working. (Think: maybe 30% of what he earns, even in my best year.) He says things about money, like telling me that he'll pay for me to go to school, and not to worry about it not being worth it -- longer story -- but then every so often he comes out with something absolutely counter to that idea.
>
> And sometimes I get the very strong feeling that I'm supposed to do all the housework because I don't earn money. He denies that, but he also doesn't ever do ANYTHING around here to help. That's a real problem for me, especially when I'm in "shut down" mode, like now, and can't do anything myself...
>Racer, this describes my experiences exactly. Of course, I have a boatload of guilt and shame at being a truly non-productive member of the household. I mean, even the cat brings home a little something now and then. Even if it's not quite currency.
CS
Posted by ClearSkies on September 12, 2006, at 4:54:13
In reply to Re: It is that... » Racer, posted by Phillipa on September 11, 2006, at 21:26:15
> I have mixed feelings on that as part of me says it's healty to be able to cry now and in front of people and part of me says oh I must be more depressed as I'm crying and didn't used to. But maybe I just finally realized that I can no longer deny certain things in my life and take responsiblility for the. And money I have to pay all my own expenses even medical from my SSDI. My husband feels no responsibility for any of my expenses so you guys are pretty lucky. Love Phillipa
Ouch! Phillipa, I don't think that "lucky" is an accurate description of what it feels like in my situation. If I had ANY income whatever, it would go right into the household to pay my way. The fact that I have nothing to contribute monitarily is yet another load onto my own poor self esteem.
CS
Posted by ClearSkies on September 12, 2006, at 5:25:42
In reply to Re: It is that..., posted by ClearSkies on September 12, 2006, at 4:54:13
Posted by ju§tyourlaugh on September 12, 2006, at 10:43:58
In reply to Re: It is that... » Racer, posted by Phillipa on September 11, 2006, at 21:26:15
i dont feel lucky. i feel worthless.
im sitting here while the word continues behind the curtins.
Posted by ju§tyourlaugh on September 12, 2006, at 10:48:08
In reply to Re: It is that... » Racer, posted by ClearSkies on September 12, 2006, at 4:50:13
i wish i knew what to say?
come over and bake cookies with me.
Posted by ClearSkies on September 12, 2006, at 13:34:49
In reply to Re: It is that... » ClearSkies, posted by ju§tyourlaugh on September 12, 2006, at 10:48:08
> i wish i knew what to say?
> come over and bake cookies with me.
>Yes!! Oatmeal, chocolate chip, peanut butter??
Yes, yes yes!
CS
Posted by Racer on September 12, 2006, at 14:22:57
In reply to Re: It is that... » ju§tyourlaugh, posted by ClearSkies on September 12, 2006, at 13:34:49
Posted by ClearSkies on September 12, 2006, at 16:01:08
In reply to Chocolate crinkles? (nm) » ClearSkies, posted by Racer on September 12, 2006, at 14:22:57
This is soooo bad. I'm a cookie junky, I must be.
Pie? No thanks.
Cake? No, I just ate.
Pudding? Are you kidding?But - Cookies?? - always and whenever.
CS
Posted by Phillipa on September 12, 2006, at 19:48:15
In reply to Re: It is that..., posted by ClearSkies on September 12, 2006, at 4:54:13
Clear Skies not my choice as Greg insisted on three checking accounts. One his, one mine, one ours. The ours pays for electiricity and stuff like that. I guess I'm used to paying for my own house, boat, car and all my expenses when working. We by no means have a traditinal realationship as i did with my first husband. He paid for everything. I was supposed to cook, clean, shop and take care of the house. Love Phillipa
Posted by ClearSkies on September 13, 2006, at 12:29:55
In reply to Re: It is that... » ClearSkies, posted by Phillipa on September 12, 2006, at 19:48:15
> Clear Skies not my choice as Greg insisted on three checking accounts. One his, one mine, one ours. The ours pays for electiricity and stuff like that. I guess I'm used to paying for my own house, boat, car and all my expenses when working. We by no means have a traditinal realationship as i did with my first husband. He paid for everything. I was supposed to cook, clean, shop and take care of the house. Love Phillipa
My point, Phillipa, is that it's not by choice that I do not contribute monitarily to the household. I have no income, zilch. If I did, it would go right into the running of the housejold, no question of it.
That I have no income to contribute is the thing that contributes to poor self esteem for me.I think you have not acknowledged this, and I feel frustrated that I did not make myself clear.
ClearSkies
Posted by Phillipa on September 13, 2006, at 13:03:25
In reply to Didn't make myself clear » Phillipa, posted by ClearSkies on September 13, 2006, at 12:29:55
Clear Skies sorry but my point is really the same as when the medical expenses are paid there is nothing to go into the household expenses. I was earning money like you were and I'm also dealing with self-esteem issues by not contributing. I have offered the money in my money market account. But it accomplishes nothing as when it's gone there is nothing. It's a sercuritiy blanket for us. See I've always paid half. Love Phillipa we've said our next move will be to a trailer. And somewhere where the taxes are less.
Posted by AuntieMel on September 13, 2006, at 14:20:25
In reply to It is that... » Dinah, posted by Racer on September 11, 2006, at 20:56:04
Money is a touchy issue, indeed.
We've pretty much got a rule that if the price is 3 digits or more we talk about it. Not that we don't sometimes do it anyway.
I stink at money management, but I at least had the good sense to marry someone good at it. Unfortunately for him he's put in the position of being the bad guy a lot.
And it doesn't have anything to do with income. Our incomes were neck-and-neck for years, then he pulled ahead and eventually made a *lot* more than me. But he's since quit and started his own business and now I make twice as much as him. It didn't change how we deal with money issues one whit.
Posted by ClearSkies on September 13, 2006, at 14:59:00
In reply to Re: Didn't make myself clear » ClearSkies, posted by Phillipa on September 13, 2006, at 13:03:25
(Throws up hands in frustration and walks away.)
Posted by Phillipa on September 13, 2006, at 16:10:42
In reply to I give up. » Phillipa, posted by ClearSkies on September 13, 2006, at 14:59:00
How do you think it feels not to have a nickle left for the household? I want to work and can't. At least our mortgage is paid. So what would you have me do? It's our personal arrangement. All marriages decide ahead of time how finances will be handled. Ours was yours, mine, and ours. That way I bought what I needed with what I earned. He did the same. Now I don't have insurance he does so I have to pay all medical expenses for me. $825 a month doesn't go far. Love Phillipa
Posted by gardenergirl on September 13, 2006, at 17:27:20
In reply to Re: I give up. » ClearSkies, posted by Phillipa on September 13, 2006, at 16:10:42
I could be wrong, but I don't think CS was suggesting you need to do anything different. I think she was expressing her feelings about her own situation.
gg
Posted by Racer on September 13, 2006, at 17:33:18
In reply to Re: I give up. » Phillipa, posted by gardenergirl on September 13, 2006, at 17:27:20
I got the feeling that CS was expressing frustration at both her own situation, and at the sense that her situation was being compared to another which she sees as very much unlike hers.
I know I get my back up when someone says, "Oh, that's just like me!" when I don't see any similarity.
Then again, could be I'm just projecting...
Posted by ClearSkies on September 13, 2006, at 17:43:12
In reply to And maybe... » gardenergirl, posted by Racer on September 13, 2006, at 17:33:18
> I got the feeling that CS was expressing frustration at both her own situation, and at the sense that her situation was being compared to another which she sees as very much unlike hers.
>
> I know I get my back up when someone says, "Oh, that's just like me!" when I don't see any similarity.
>
> Then again, could be I'm just projecting...
You and GG got it right in one. I am finding the correct words be be hard to find today. Thanks.
Posted by ju§tyourlaugh on September 13, 2006, at 17:48:24
In reply to Re: And maybe... » Racer, posted by ClearSkies on September 13, 2006, at 17:43:12
sorry..i am guilty of comparison when you needed support.
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