![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 55 to 79 of 96. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lao Tzu on July 10, 2010, at 20:08:16
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan » Lao Tzu, posted by morgan miller on July 9, 2010, at 10:16:53
I used to bike a lot for exercise, but I've gotten away from it a bit. I have a couple of nice bikes. I may go back to it after all. I always enjoyed biking. I guess in a way it's a childhood thing because as kids we rode bikes all the time during our summers. The memories have always stayed with me. Then, I was "normal" and highly energetic unlike today. At my last job, I did work out in the weight room with one of my colleagues. Since I lost my job to this illness, I haven't been back to the gym. It was a positive experience, though. I only did it for a few months and then quit, but I did feel better about myself in that short time span. I also like running on the treadmill, but I'm not crazy about the elliptical.
Yeah, I'm a sensitive guy myself. Like you, I adore women. I'm hoping one day to get back into a relationship again. It's difficult with this illness. One day, you feel positive about it, the next day it's the furthest thing from your mind. But I do love women. Always have. I like their sensitivity. I always respond to that quality in women. The longest relationship for me was about a year and a half. And I was a late bloomer. I didn't start dating until I was about 28-29 when I started working for the pharmaceutical company. I didn't date in college because that's when the illness started, and back then I didn't know what was happening to me. I just came off as rather shy and severely introverted. But I'm sure it was a lot more than just being shy.
I've only had two steady girlfriends, but the experience was both uplifting and disappointing. I found out one of the girls had a mood disorder. At times, she was very pleasant, and at other times a complete nightmare. I actually lost my virginity to her, which I was finally happy that it happened, but we broke up after a brief relationship. How are relationships working out for you lately? I did a lot of internet dating a few years back. It's not a bad way to meet people in my opinion since I was never a social butterfly.
Anyway, I can't say enough about the Holy Basil. I think it really is helping with my emotions. Its effect is subtle. It's one of the few herbs that I actually think I like. Hats off to you for suggesting it. I'm taking the maximum dosage listed on the bottle. I still need all of my other vitamins, but it has been very useful to me so far.
Enjoy reading your replies. Stay well!!Lao
Posted by morgan miller on July 10, 2010, at 21:28:19
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan, posted by Lao Tzu on July 10, 2010, at 20:08:16
Hey Lao, when I have more energy I will give you a better reply : )
Relationships are very difficult for me right now with as bad as I've been feeling. Things are more complicated than what I have revealed so far. There is something I did a few years ago and it is driving me crazy. I find that it is consuming me. It's physical and it was done out of vanity. I totally regret it. This is definitely getting in the way of me feeling good in general, which is affecting my ability to just live comfortably in the moment and enjoy being with women.
I'm a total mess and live with my father and I still seem to find a way to meet woman and sort of date them. The girl I'm dating now is great but she is growing tire of my suffering. I can't blame her and I think I am going to talk to her and tell her she would be much better off if she stopped dating me. I want to be friends with her and I hope we will be able to continue on with a good friendship. I've grown somewhat dependent on her for relief from the pain I feel. I am starting to shut off any feelings I have for her in preparation for us not seeing each other anymore.
I used to be quite the ladies man, but like you I have never really had a relationship that has gone much longer than a year. The few times that I was in serious relationships, the two of us feel in love hard and fast. They were always very passionate but ended up rocky riddled with dysfunction. I understand it all now and I'm much more mature in so many ways but I am more f*ck*d up in so many other ways than ever before to the point where it is harder than ever to enjoy a relationship or even attract the right person. Ugh....
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on July 10, 2010, at 21:38:55
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan, posted by Lao Tzu on July 10, 2010, at 20:08:16
I'm so glad you like Holy Basil, it's some good stuff. Unfortunately for me right now I have to get some other things straightened out I think in order to consistently feel the benefits of Holy Basil. I just started 5 mg of micronized DHEA today, I'll let you know how it goes.
So what brand of Holy Basil did you end up getting and how much and how often do you take it?
Sorry to hear you have not been able the experience relationships with women the way I'm sure you would have liked to. I believe there will be a day when you will have a more enriching fulfilling and long-lasting relationship than the ones you've had. At least you have had a chance to experience how wonderful a relationship with a woman can be. You sound like I very smart very strong person. I think you will get better and find a way to have success once again with the ladies, and more than you ever did before.
Man, I'm seriously considering applying for disability. I'm just wiped out and in too much pain and discomfort. I curious to know what I would have to do to increase my chances of being approved for it. I'm sure I can get my psychiatrist, my therapist, and my primary care physician to write letters giving reasons why I should be on disability. I should have applied long ago but I was ignorant to the possibility and maybe a bit stubborn, thinking I was going to get a job and get better. Why don't people suggest disability more often? I hate this sh*t. Life is a complete nightmare. Funny I'm saying this now considering I was such a care free, free spirited optimistic person not too long ago.
M-
Posted by Garnetldn on July 11, 2010, at 16:20:39
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan, posted by morgan miller on July 10, 2010, at 21:38:55
I have tried the HB by New Chapter and also growing Thai Basil. I thought it was helpful, also read that it is an adaptogen. But I am not a good one for keeping with an extract, or even capsules unless highly motivated. When I found that I love the taste and since cravings can often point to something you need I grew and ate a lot of it for two summers. I could even just go out to the garden and eat off the stem while watering. LOL Always made me feel really good and of course I love Thai food made with TB.
As far as I know all Thai Basil is Thai Holy Basil. Although the New Chapter extract is standardized so has a high content of active constituents.
I am on a new hunt though for information on Pyroluria which is a condition of deficiency in B6 and Zinc, mainly that is known to be associated with mood disorders, anxiety and depression. It's a strong connection with some testing available but little in the way of actual markers other than survey studies dating back 30 years or more.
Abram Hoffer MD who started Orthomolecular Medicine along with Linus Pauling and Carl Pieffer MD authored early articles on the so called Mauve Factor.
Mark Vonnegut MD, Kurt Vonnegut's son was treated by Dr Pieffer for a psychotic episode brought on by hallucinogenic mushrooms that landed him in a mental hospital.
I just started a list on Yahoo with resources, mostly links at this point, but I have collected all the scientific publications in my personal files and plan to post those soon.
Hope you can join us and explore this possible explanation for mood disorders, especially those that do not respond to SSRIs.
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Pyrroluria
Garnet
Posted by Lao Tzu on July 11, 2010, at 22:31:54
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan, posted by Garnetldn on July 11, 2010, at 16:20:39
Morgan, relationships are complicated enough. I just tell myself that I will join the rest of the world when I am good and ready, not before. As an example of a success story, my cousin married a schizophrenic woman. He, himself, is handicapped, but I went to their wedding and they seemed very much in love. So it can work, even in extreme cases. I was an extreme case. I couldn't manage a relationship, let alone my own personal hygiene. That's how screwed up I was about 5 years ago. I've come a long way since then. You live with your dad, I live with my parents and my younger brother. I really need them more than I would admit. The important matter is to rehabilitate yourself, however long it takes. I just take my time, and this frustrates my doctor. He would like me to socialize more, but it's a real effort for me, and I don't like to feel that I have to force myself to interact with people. He tells me, do whatever I want. The medicine is working well, so go out and experience life. That's his message. I wish I could take it to heart. The way I look at it, you seem to be trying to live a normal life. You don't sound lazy at all. Hats off to you for trying to make things work out. My philosophy is one of first, rehabilitating myself to the point that I can handle a relationship in my life. Until I'm ready, I'm not shopping around, so to speak. I guess you could call it laziness, but I think it has more to do with making myself stronger first. Maybe I'm copping out. I don't know. I just realize that when you have a severe mental illness, it takes time, patience, and support to get well. I mean, I'm talking about 20 years of being ill (in my case), to one degree or another. It's not going to go away over night. I don't know how long you have been ill, but it takes time. Some people are real fighters. Others give up. I'm sort of in between. I don't give up all hope, yet I don't try to improve my life, at least not at this point. I will, though, one day.
I'm sorry that your relationship is a little rocky. I wish you the best with your girlfriend. I have to say you are a hero for trying, and I hope she sees that too.
About disability, I've been on disability for about three years. It took me less than a year to start receiving benefits, but that's all because my mother found a good lawyer. It took a while for the doctors to write letters for me. The lawyer pressed them until they did. Then I had to wait for Social Security to get them and then contact me. I had to fill out some forms and a few phone calls were made. The longest part of it were the doctors writing up and sending their letters. They had to state that I was not fit for employment and could not support myself.
Are you seeing a doctor who can evaluate your condition? What does he think? What help do you really need to get better? My mother thought it best to see a really good psychiatrist. He's very good with me, and he has helped me a lot. My first doctor didn't do as well a job with me as my current doctor.
You said you have a lot of physcial complaints, such as with tendons and ligaments. Is there anything the doctors can do about those symptoms? Are these physical complaints causing you to feel depressed, or is it just the depression that hasn't cleared up yet? Have you tried different kinds of medication in addition to the supplements? I find that the meds work for my worst symptoms, and the vitamins, herbs, fish oil, and minerals help with any lingering mood problems and with energy as well. I have learned over the years that medication can be used with supplements safely, and there is a better outcome when both are used, at least for some people like myself. I wouldn't be where I am today without the meds, but the supplements have given me more energy and helped with improving my depression. Thanks to you! Holy Basil is a hit in my book. I just hope it doesn't interact with my Zoloft. So far, I've been feeling okay with it. Do you have health insurance? Have you tried a medication called Provigil, or the new one called Nuvigil? My first psychiatrist gave it to me off-label for energy because I was still having low energy despite being on antidepressants. The Provigil did the trick for me. It was a good medication for me. Because it increased my energy, I felt less depressed as a result. Have you ever tried Provigil? I stopped taking it because, since the insurance companies have been making a lot of changes based on Obama's Health Plan, I was left to pay for it every month, and it is still quite expensive, about $8.00 per pill. The drug company has a monopoly on Provigil. There is no generic for it yet, and many people who need it can't afford it. If you can afford it, I highly recommend it for energy. It's the only drug of its kind. It helped me. Just making a suggestion. Wish you well, as always.Lao
Posted by morgan miller on July 12, 2010, at 21:57:04
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan, posted by Lao Tzu on July 11, 2010, at 22:31:54
Crap! I wrote a response and I guess I didn't confirm it. Ugh. Oh well, I will come back and write another one when I'm up for it.
As far as the safety of combining Holy Basil and Zoloft, I think it is perfectly fine. You could do some research and find out what the MOA of Holy Basil is and try to decide if there might be any contraindications, I don't there there are though.
I'm so glad you actually notice something positive with Holy Basil, subtle or not. I like it and will probably take it on a fairly regular basis for a long time.
Wish you well too my brotha!
Morgan
P.S. I think you're doing the best you can for now. Go at your own pace for sure, just remember you aren't getting any younger! : ) Thank you for calling me a hero of some sort, I appreciate it. I feel a heck of a lot more like a ZERO! I just don't have the same energy, charisma, exuberance, confidence, and enthusiasm. I'm sure you understand. It sounds like you and I are probably being held back quite a bit by are illnesses. Take the illness away and I'm sure you are a very successful person in life. With the illness, you are still successful, just not in the same way, if you know what I mean. I'm glad you have the support you have, it helps a ton.
Posted by Lao Tzu on July 13, 2010, at 10:21:04
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan » Lao Tzu, posted by morgan miller on July 12, 2010, at 21:57:04
Yeah, I know what you mean about being "different" with the illness. And also being held back as well. You're right about that! It's strange how you can feel so different after a meltdown. In some ways, I have enhancement, such as an improved memory which I didn't have before I started taking all the meds and the supplements. And I'm also quicker to respond to statements made by other people, which I didn't have before. I feel less anxious, but I still withdrawal from people. Might have to do with neurotransmitters that regulate excitation and inhibition, such as Glutamate and GABA. When you have fear, there is a dysregulation of GABA neurotransmission in some parts of the brain. I've also believed this may be a missing piece of the puzzle because I was a lot more sociable and more responsive to social cues when I was taking a benzodiazepine everyday.
Anyway, you're not a zero! A zero wouldn't do anything with his life or try to better it. It all has to do with working through your problems one small step at a time. Extreme patience is what is necessary. Otherwise, you'll envision every little stressor in your life as a major drama. I used to do this everyday of my life years ago. I still do it to some degree now, but I think I am more calm now, take things in stride so to speak. I live a retiring life at 39. This shouldn't be, but that's my life. I should be out working, travelling, meeting women, etc. I should be well on my own by now. I had a brief stint of being on my own, and I was so distressed when I lost everything, including some of my confidence. I know now that I am on the road to recovery. I am more positive now than I was five years ago, but the social withdrawal is a lingering negative symptom of my illness. I try not to dwell on it. I'm waiting patiently for the new medications to address negative symptoms of schizophrenia. I have a feeling they will help, but it's going to be awhile yet.
Is lack of energy the worst symptom that is bothering you, Morgan? What other symptoms do you need improvement on? You sound as if you can function okay. I can function okay, too, it's just that I have to rehabilitate as far as socialization. I've had that problem for a long, long time. I never felt like I was on the same wavelength as most people. I felt rather rigid and nervous around people, especially those I don't know well. I tend to have a mistrust of people, even when there is no reason to mistrust them. Schizophrenia has a lot to do with cognitive dysfunction. You tend to have beliefs that aren't based on reality. I still have this lingering problem. You tend to be disconnected from people, and I think it has a lot to do with neurotransmitters that regulate excitation and inhibition. There is a dysfunction there. When you're not on medication, everything seems overstimulating. You can't concentrate on rational thought. And of course, there is a dysfunction of the dopamine-serotonergic system in the frontal/prefrontal cortex of the brain, which may explain a lot of the cognitive dysfunction. I'm rambling, aren't I?
Did you ever get a definite diagnosis of your condition, Morgan? If you know exactly what you have, it's easier to understand it and what you have to do to deal with it. For years, I never knew I was bipolar/schizophrenic. I wasn't properly diagnosed for so many years.
There were so many times in my life where I felt that if I were normal, I would have made so many friends and I would have dated a lot more. I have regrets, but I try not to lay any guilt traps on myself and just focus on the present.
What I can discern from your posts is that YOU have potential to get the life you want. It's going to be difficult, but I'm sure you can overcome your illness and get on with life. I'm hoping I can do the same in time. Keep working and keep dating. It is a good thing for anyone. Peace.Lao
Posted by Lao Tzu on July 13, 2010, at 10:28:02
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan » Lao Tzu, posted by morgan miller on July 12, 2010, at 21:57:04
Oh, I forgot to mention. I think 800mg of Holy Basil is a little too much for me. I'm going to try and stick with 400mg per day. It is helping. I've noticed a more calm, positive outlook already. I tend to do best on lower dosages of herbs. Don't know why exactly. I'm just very sensitive to any substances I put into my body. That's why I am a little resistant to trying Chinese herbal tonics because the dosages are so hight. Nevertheless, I'm keeping an open mind about TCM, thanks to Hombre. Later.
Lao
Posted by morgan miller on July 13, 2010, at 10:36:17
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan, posted by Lao Tzu on July 13, 2010, at 10:21:04
You're great Lao..you may have more going on than you realize. Thanks for the encouragement. Things are super complicated now. No longer is it just being bipolar and having anxiety and occasional passing depression. I am damaged in many ways, this makes it very hard for me to get back to trul living and living comfortable. The difference between now and 3 years ago is light night and day...very scary.
Anyway, I'll get back to you later. I have this cosmetic and make-up training(being a guy I know very little about make-up). I don't want to go but I need to. A week ago I was considering quitting this job and going on disability. But I'm only working 2 days a week now(no more restaurant, they had to let me go for missing father's day brunch shift two weeks ago. I just felt so bad that morning I went back to bed knowing full well that I was missing my shift and might get axed. The liked me and gave me many more chances than I should have gotten). I can accept hangin in there for 2 days a week. Ultimately I want to feel well enough to work and go back to school(which is what I was doing 3 years ago). I would love to do some personal training and eventually go to grad school and get my Master's in Social Work. Ugh, it seems nearly impossible these days. Thanks again for your encouragement..Peace out bro.
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on July 13, 2010, at 22:08:02
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan, posted by Lao Tzu on July 13, 2010, at 10:28:02
> Oh, I forgot to mention. I think 800mg of Holy Basil is a little too much for me. I'm going to try and stick with 400mg per day. It is helping. I've noticed a more calm, positive outlook already. I tend to do best on lower dosages of herbs. Don't know why exactly. I'm just very sensitive to any substances I put into my body. That's why I am a little resistant to trying Chinese herbal tonics because the dosages are so hight. Nevertheless, I'm keeping an open mind about TCM, thanks to Hombre. Later.
>
> LaoGood idea. I am always tempted to go with a higher dose when something works for me. Then I realize I'm over doing it and have to go back down to the original dose. I even did this with Zoloft years ago when I tried 150 and felt good for the first few days, but then realized I was a little too hyped up and a bit agitated.
Holy Basil has a calming and improved outlook effect on many people. That's good you are responding to it in the same positive way that many others do.
Did you ever tell me what brand you are using? Just curious.
M-
Posted by Lao Tzu on July 14, 2010, at 11:18:52
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan, posted by morgan miller on July 13, 2010, at 10:36:17
Hey, Morgan. How's it going today? You asked what brand of Holy Basil I am trying. New Chapter. It seems like a good quality product. I am going to try staying on just 400mg per day because 800mg made me just a little bit too calm, which I don't like. I like to be at least a little more alert. I think it is great that you are still working even two days a week and that you might go back to grad school. My last girlfriend was a social worker and worked with children and their parents, mostly very young children with problems at home. She's a saint!
I lost my job five years ago because I was taking off too much time due to the bipolar, so I know what you're going through. The illness seems to take over your life and then you become too sick to attend to your responsibilities. Don't worry about it though. There are always other opportunities out there. Now for me, it's going to be difficult to find work because I haven't had a steady job in five years. However, my doctor has cleared me to go back to work, so I'd better do it sooner than later, or else prospective employers are going to look at me and wonder why I haven't worked in so long. I'm going to have to find a good excuse without telling them I have schizophrenia. If I tell them that, there's no way I'll get a job. There is still a degree of discrimination against the mentally ill. Still, I'm technically not schizophrenic anymore because of my treatment. I am much better, so I don't try to label myself as mentally ill. I was very sick about five years ago, but those days have come and gone. I might be ready to go on with my life soon. We'll see. Just taking baby steps. I must say, you are trying, though difficult it is for you, but at least you realize you aren't too afraid to try something. That's a really big step that I myself haven't taken yet. Keep doing what you're doing. It's a good thing. I, myself had a serious breakdown about five years ago, and when I lost my job, I was a basket case. I have recovered quite a bit since then, but I'm still having to deal with some lingering negative symptoms of schizophrenia.
Today, I tried taking my taurine again, and I think it is really helpful to me. It seems to help with the depression, and it is one of the few amino acids that I actually respond to. I'm thinking about trying L-carnitine in addition, you know, because the combination of L-taurine and L-carnitine may be good for the brain. L-taurine is one of the amino acids that is recommended for bipolar. The combination of the two may be good for increased physical endurance. I got that from drinking Monster Energy last winter, and I could actually shovel all of the snow at my house without getting too tired. The L-carnitine is supposedly good for muscle endurance, not so much for mental fatigue. You would need Acetyl-l-carnitine for brain power, but I had tried ALCAR in the past and felt it didn't give me as much brain power as I would have liked so I stopped taking it. It might be different now since I'm taking other vitamins that enhance energy. Maybe it would work better now than it did before. ALCAR is more expensive than simple L-carnitine, but if you need muscle endurance, L-carnitine may be the way to go and ALCAR for brain improvement. It's said that as we age, we need more carnitine in our diets. Well, that's all for today. Have a good day!!Lao
Posted by morgan miller on July 18, 2010, at 11:57:07
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan, posted by Lao Tzu on July 13, 2010, at 10:21:04
>Is lack of energy the worst symptom that is bothering you, Morgan? What other symptoms do you need improvement on? You sound as if you can function okay.
My fatigue has been extreme. I also have muscle and mental fatique. My legs are not only injured but they also often feel unusually weak and stiff. My whole body feels this way at times, especially when my legs also feel this way. I really don't know what is going on with me. These symptoms began after I started treating myself with lamictal after I fell into the deepest darkest depression of my life. Nowadays there seems to be no rhyme or reason to why I feel the way I do at times. I'm really not functioning o.k., I just force myself to work. Actually, my co-workers and managers have noticed that I am not really "present" at times and have talked to me out of being concerned. I'm really hoping that treating my thyroid will help some. I'm also in my second week of taking micronized DHEA. I have a feeling my problems are pretty complicated-rooted in nerve damage, fascia scarring, subluxation, other musculoskeletal issues, and biochemical issues. I'm going to see a neurologist about my fasciculating and sore calve muscles and a physiatrist about all my musculoskeletal issues. I will demand a spinal tap just to make sure there are not any lesions on my spine. Just want to cover all the bases. That's why I say there are so many more things going on here contributing than just me being bipolar. Actually, all the things that I cherished and loved about my life and myself that helped keep me in check over the years and relieved my anxiety are gone for the moment.
>I can function okay, too, it's just that I have to rehabilitate as far as socialization. I've had that problem for a long, long time. I never felt like I was on the same wavelength as most people. I felt rather rigid and nervous around people, especially those I don't know well. I tend to have a mistrust of people, even when there is no reason to mistrust them. Schizophrenia has a lot to do with cognitive dysfunction. You tend to have beliefs that aren't based on reality. I still have this lingering problem. You tend to be disconnected from people, and I think it has a lot to do with neurotransmitters that regulate excitation and inhibition. There is a dysfunction there. When you're not on medication, everything seems overstimulating. You can't concentrate on rational thought. And of course, there is a dysfunction of the dopamine-serotonergic system in the frontal/prefrontal cortex of the brain, which may explain a lot of the cognitive dysfunction. I'm rambling, aren't I?
Ha ha, you were not rambling at all. That's what this is all about, sharing our life experiences and struggles. You can't do that without going on in detail and length. I wouldn't call that rambling, although I too myself often say that I am rambling when I go on about my life and my problems. It's natural.
I'm so sorry you have had such a difficult time with socialization, it must be awful. Socializing and having positive relationships is what life is truly all about, IMHO. So, to not feel like you can enjoy socializing freely and have healthy relationships is devastating-it is to me at least. I can relate somewhat to how you feel and struggle but not quite you the extend you do and have in the past. In highschool I went through a period where I did not hang out with anyone for a few years. I even found myself eating lunch outside my next classroom instead of in the cafeteria with everyone else. I simply did not have any confidence or sense of who I was or who I was becoming and could not handle some of the harsh ways of highschoolers. I did not know how to stand up for myself and dish out a little healthy dose of what was dealt out to me. It was a rough time. Luckily, I was eventually able to break out and become quite the extroverted butterfly. I think 22, the first time I was on medication, prozac, was the first years I actually really felt confident and could truly enjoy myself free of stress, awkwardness or worry. I don't think it was just the prozac but it certainly made an impact.
The last two years have been very difficult for me as far as being able to enjoy a social life. This has been devastating for me since being social and going out with friends and meeting new people was one of the most important aspects of my life. So I really feel for you and not ever really feeling like you were able to truly connect and feel comfortable socially to the point where you could flourish and feel alive in the world.
>Did you ever get a definite diagnosis of your condition, Morgan? If you know exactly what you have, it's easier to understand it and what you have to do to deal with it. For years, I never knew I was bipolar/schizophrenic. I wasn't properly diagnosed for so many years.
I never really had a definite diagnosis. I just know that I fall somewhere under the spectrum of bipolar. Some may say bipolar I based on my last severe mixed manic episode, others may say bipolar II, who knows. I'm not so sure it really matters that much. I just need to find out what works for me without negatively affecting my congition or any other physiological/physical function. I too never knew I was bipolar for years, as I stated in one of my previous posts. I truly believe I may not be where I am right now if I were aware of my diagnosis years ago. Of course, this would have taken the right course of action and the least invasive most effective course of treatment. I think knowing would have empowered me in a way that I could have checked my behavior and been aware of it to the point of being able to modify it some. Much of my past behavior resulted in many of the physical and physiological issues I am suffering from today. I do have to say that I also believe that our childhood experience most likely contributed and may still be contributing to the development and current condition of our illnesses. This is why I am such a strong believer in psychodynamic individual and group therapy.
Morgan
Posted by Lao Tzu on July 18, 2010, at 20:33:44
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan » Lao Tzu, posted by morgan miller on July 18, 2010, at 11:57:07
I only felt like I had joined the rest of the world when I was taking Ativan years ago. It made me feel so at ease with myself. It dampened bad memories. It allowed me to go out and meet other people and have a girlfriend. But alas, it was an artificial calm. I wasn't really myself, but then again, I really didn't like the real me anyway. I, myself, do not have any real physical problems, but I do remember years ago before all the meds and vitamins, I did complain of fatigue in my body. I had bouts of feeling really weak in my legs and of course, the over-stimulation in my head (dopamine problems). I think it is really wise that you are going to get the tests done. Perhaps they will give you some answers, I hope. I'm picking Hombre's brain about what he thinks is the best Chinese tonic for apathy and fatigue. I'm seriously thinking about trying TCM, but I know I'd probably have to clear it with my doctor first. That's what I should do, but knowing me, I'd do it anyway.
Getting the tests done will give you some peace of mind, I hope. You care enough about yourself to want some answers as to what's going on with your body. I felt the same way about myself, but years ago, I had lingering symptoms despite being on optimal treatment with medication. Obviously, the meds weren't enough. The vitamins have helped me a lot as far as depression and energy. It took me awhile experimenting to get just the right dosages for the vitamins.Do you suppose your chronic fatigue, stiffness, physical complaints, etc might be related to the bipolar? You know I had fatigue and stiffness in my body the whole time I worked at the pharmaceutical company. That job just wore me out physically. I was so fatigued that I wouldn't even wash my dishes or clean the apartment. I stayed at home on weekends and rested the whole time. If I wanted to go out with Lisa, I would take a little more Ativan and this would relax my tired body enough that I could go out and enjoy myself. I'm not saying you should go on Ativan because frankly, eventually, it usually poops out and then you're back to square one. Provigil can help with mental fatigue. There's something called Mitochondrial Disease. I'm not sure of all the symptoms. It is theorized that bipolars may have mitochondrial dysfunction, but it's a rather new theory, and nobody has come out and said that is what's going on here.
I really do hope you get some answers about your condition, Morgan, and how to treat it. You seem like a good, sincere person, and I'm sure you'll make it through this with a little help. The truth is out there somewhere, sometime.Lao
Posted by morgan miller on July 18, 2010, at 21:57:31
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan, posted by Lao Tzu on July 18, 2010, at 20:33:44
>Do you suppose your chronic fatigue, stiffness, physical complaints, etc might be related to the bipolar?
Some of it may be anxiety and depression. I do think much of it has to do with the fact that my brain simply is not producing the right chemicals/hormones and all of my injuries, fascia scarring, muscle tears, etc. are feeling worse because of it.
You're great man, thanks for your encouraging words. You seem like a very sincere, kind, caring person as well.
I think you should give TCM a shot, what do you have to lose? I am going to start acupuncture next, I will tell you how it goes.
I really hope you continue to make progress so you can lead a full happy life, you deserve it. I am interested in seeing how TCM works out for you if you try it. I wonder if it's o.k. to do the TCM along with your medications. I guess you will find out, your really good about investigating things thoroughly.
One day maybe I will tell you everything that is going on with me then it will be easier for you to understand why there is so much more going on here than me just being bipolar. Of course the bipolar is one of the main reasons why it has been so difficult for me to deal with everything.
Take care brotha! Talk to you later man.
Morgan
Posted by Lao Tzu on July 19, 2010, at 14:23:31
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan, posted by morgan miller on July 18, 2010, at 21:57:31
Acupuncture. Good idea for all your physical complaints. That just might help you, not saying it is a cure, but it might take your mind off of the body aches and stiffness. I like the fact that you're exploring all options. That's something I never did. I just do the basics. Felt great yesterday after a round of tennis with my brother. I absolutely love hitting that little yellow ball over a net. I don't know why. It's repetitive, but I love it. It's the only exercise I really get enjoyment out of, and I usually feel pretty good afterwards. The endorphin high is great! I never get that from just plain old walking. You really have to get your heart pumping. I wish my bro had the time to hit the ball around about an hour each day. I'm sure my health would be much improved. Most kinds of exercise I find to be too boring, even laborious, so I just don't do it. My brother only has time to play on the weekends because he's busy all week. He goes to the gym and so does my dad, but I don't go because of the social anxiety. It's terrible to have this. I would work out at the gym if I wasn't socially anxious. I know it would be something to keep my mind off of how I feel and plus, it's a confidence builder. Maybe I will try it. They both go to the local YMCA because it's dirt cheap compared to the more popluar gyms around here. They usually don't have to wait to get on the machines, but a lot of places you have to wait because it's so crowded. I don't know if I could do it because of all the people there. I realize there's nothing to be afraid of, but it's just stuck in my mind. That's also why I don't go back to school or just take some classes. It's hard to be in a room full of people. It's been that way for many years. The only time I felt comfortable in a classroom is when I was taking Ativan a few years ago. I'm glad you don't have the social anxiety. It's really horrible. I don't even go visit my friends too much anymore. I'm usually a no-show. Don't get me wrong, I'm getting better, but things have kind of hit a plateau, not getting worse, but not improving all that much either. I think it is just fear because it's easier to say no than to just do something. I don't challenge myself enough. I probably could be around people more often than I do. I kind of use my illness as an excuse, and that is wrong for me to do to myself. Anyway, feeling okay today. Have to see my doctor on Wednesday to get my bimonthly injection. I like my doctor, but I wish there was more he could do for me. He's kind of like, the medicine is working well, but the rest is up to you. That's the way I have to look at it, I guess. I have to stop wining about things and just do it. Good luck with the acupuncture, Morgan. Be interested to know on what level it effects you, good or bad. Does health insurance cover that therapy? I don't know for sure.
I'm hemming and hauling about the TCM today. I think I want to do it, but I just don't know if it's the right step right now. Will have to think it over more, but Hombre has seen so much improvement, and he takes similar meds that I take. I'm starting to wonder if I have been missing out on something good for me. I just know so little about Chinese medicine. It's really more prudent to talk with an expert about it before you start trying herbs that are quite potent. I'm sure they would help me in many ways because I've seen benefit from ginger, cinnamon, and holy basil. I'm just a little hesitant to try it.
Well, hope you're doing okay today. Talk to you later.Lao
Posted by Hombre on July 19, 2010, at 18:21:52
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan, posted by Lao Tzu on July 19, 2010, at 14:23:31
Maybe your brother and dad can go to the gym with you, show you the ropes, and you can do some male bonding. In my experience, people at gyms are pretty good at leaving other people alone, not staring, etc. But I understand that sometimes it does not feel right to leave the house. I really do. I hope that when you are ready, herbs or other measures will help with this. Take your time. We'll be rooting for you no matter what.
Posted by morgan miller on July 20, 2010, at 0:39:28
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan, posted by Lao Tzu on July 19, 2010, at 14:23:31
Oh I have social anxiety, and it has been worse than ever these past few years. I just kinda deal with it. It was really bad when I was young also. But I have been lucky, for years I was very extroverted and cherished every moment I was able to be social with friends and meet new people. Often times alcohol was involved though. I think I always had the anxiety, I just masked it by acting sort of wild and crazy and uninhibited. Got to go to bed, have to be up a 630 for a long road bike ride with a friend. Trying to get back into being active again and overcome all the discomfort. That's great that you feel so good after playing tennis. You really should try to find something else that you can do on your own on a regular basis that is intense and vigorous and makes you feel good. This type of exercise is one of the best things you can do for the health of your brain. Anyway, gotta hit the sack. Going to get about 4 and a half hours of sleep tonight. Peace out brotha.
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on July 20, 2010, at 0:42:33
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan, posted by Hombre on July 19, 2010, at 18:21:52
> Maybe your brother and dad can go to the gym with you, show you the ropes, and you can do some male bonding. In my experience, people at gyms are pretty good at leaving other people alone, not staring, etc. But I understand that sometimes it does not feel right to leave the house. I really do. I hope that when you are ready, herbs or other measures will help with this. Take your time. We'll be rooting for you no matter what.
I agree that getting used to going to the gym could be a really good thing for you. It's kinda nice there, you can people watch and no one bothers you. You may get an occasional friendly person that says hi or starts talking to you, but it's kinda nice when that happens. I too hope you reach a point where you feel comfortable getting out and doing things like going to the gym.
Morgan
Posted by Hombre on July 20, 2010, at 4:48:35
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan, posted by morgan miller on July 20, 2010, at 0:42:33
Since you both mentioned weakness in the legs, I just wanted to mention that in TCM terms weak kidneys, which is associated with deep fatigue, will also manifest as weakness, soreness, and tightness of the lower back and legs, esp the knees. I've experienced this.
In qigong/internal martial arts training, one is advised to avoid excessive sexual activity, specifically ejaculating too often. This is not moralizing, but it is one of the possible factors leading to weak kidneys. Excessive depends on your inborn constitution and current state of health. If you're energy is strong and your organs are healthy, you won't notice it. If your energy is weak, however, you'll feel an overall hit to your energy as well as the above mentioned symptoms until you've replenished your Essence.
If you can learn to control your emissions, sex can become a way to strengthen your energy, but you better have your technique down. As you get healthier, you and your partner will enjoy sex even more.
Posted by Hombre on July 20, 2010, at 21:03:48
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan, posted by Hombre on July 20, 2010, at 4:48:35
In my previous post, I am not in any way making assumptions about anyone's lifestyle. Just sharing info.
Posted by morgan miller on July 22, 2010, at 9:46:04
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan, posted by Hombre on July 20, 2010, at 21:03:48
> In my previous post, I am not in any way making assumptions about anyone's lifestyle. Just sharing info.
I didn't take it that way at all. Thanks so much for the suggestions and info.
I can't go too long without masturbation. I used to all the time and had sex all the time and felt great. Maybe it is affecting me differently nowadays, who knows.
Posted by Lao Tzu on July 26, 2010, at 11:40:38
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan, posted by morgan miller on July 22, 2010, at 9:46:04
Hey, Morgan!! How are you doing today? I'm okay today. Just waiting for my herbs to arrive. Don't know if I really need them, though?? I stopped taking the holy basil because I felt that I didn't need it, and to be honest, it really wasn't helping me that much. It seems my problem is much bigger than any one herb can help with, which is why the TCM may be of benefit. I do rather well with ginger because for some odd reason it affects my mood positively. I read somewhere that it effects 5ht3 serotonin receptors, and this may or may not have and AD like effect. I only take 250mg per day, but I like it for some reason. I also read that ginger may act like an anti-anxiety herb because of its regulation of thromboxane levels. Don't know if this is just complete B.S. or not? The site was trying to sell herbs, so draw your own conclusions. Probably B.S. Anyway, I'm focusing more on antioxidants, the three best seem to be Vitamins E and C and selenium. Zinc, B6, and manganese are also important for me because I believe I am pyroluric.
I had a very strange dream last night that was like a safari adventure. It was very vivid. A group of us were canoeing on a river and the boat was literally racing over top a bunch of sea lions just resting in the river. At one point in the trip, our boat flew through the air and then we fell down into a huge lake full of alligators. Eventually, we made our way back up the cliff to the forest, and from there went on foot. We had a choice. Either go through a snake infested route or walk through a narrow corridor high over the lake. We took the narrow corridor, and it seemed like something out of Mario Brothers, jumping from rock to rock, teetering on the edge with the huge river far down below. If we fell, we'd be back with the alligators. It was an amusing dream, and I don't know what brought it on. I had taken some tylenol earlier on for a headache. Maybe it was that. I don't know for sure. Anyway, hope you had a nice weekend. I'm home alone today because my family went to a funeral. It's very quiet here, and I rather prefer peace and quiet. I like to sit outside on the porch and listen to music. I just bought a new Apple iPod and it's amazing how much music you can store on it. I'm really enjoying it. Anyhow, how's your fatigue today? Is the fatigue a constant struggle for you? Does it happen everyday, or just on certain days? Some people drink energy drinks if they're having a bad day. Did you ever try energy drinks? I've tried them in the past, and they do tend to give me a little more energy, but I don't make a habit of it. Just if I'm having a particularly bad day. Have you seen the doctor for your tests yet? Have you started the accupuncture yet? Would like to know if it helps you. I'm curious about accupuncture. Stay well!!Lao
Posted by morgan miller on July 28, 2010, at 17:18:35
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan, posted by Lao Tzu on July 26, 2010, at 11:40:38
> Hey, Morgan!! How are you doing today? I'm okay today. Just waiting for my herbs to arrive. Don't know if I really need them, though?? I stopped taking the holy basil because I felt that I didn't need it, and to be honest, it really wasn't helping me that much. It seems my problem is much bigger than any one herb can help with, which is why the TCM may be of benefit. I do rather well with ginger because for some odd reason it affects my mood positively. I read somewhere that it effects 5ht3 serotonin receptors, and this may or may not have and AD like effect. I only take 250mg per day, but I like it for some reason. I also read that ginger may act like an anti-anxiety herb because of its regulation of thromboxane levels. Don't know if this is just complete B.S. or not? The site was trying to sell herbs, so draw your own conclusions. Probably B.S. Anyway, I'm focusing more on antioxidants, the three best seem to be Vitamins E and C and selenium. Zinc, B6, and manganese are also important for me because I believe I am pyroluric.
> I had a very strange dream last night that was like a safari adventure. It was very vivid. A group of us were canoeing on a river and the boat was literally racing over top a bunch of sea lions just resting in the river. At one point in the trip, our boat flew through the air and then we fell down into a huge lake full of alligators. Eventually, we made our way back up the cliff to the forest, and from there went on foot. We had a choice. Either go through a snake infested route or walk through a narrow corridor high over the lake. We took the narrow corridor, and it seemed like something out of Mario Brothers, jumping from rock to rock, teetering on the edge with the huge river far down below. If we fell, we'd be back with the alligators. It was an amusing dream, and I don't know what brought it on. I had taken some tylenol earlier on for a headache. Maybe it was that. I don't know for sure. Anyway, hope you had a nice weekend. I'm home alone today because my family went to a funeral. It's very quiet here, and I rather prefer peace and quiet. I like to sit outside on the porch and listen to music. I just bought a new Apple iPod and it's amazing how much music you can store on it. I'm really enjoying it. Anyhow, how's your fatigue today? Is the fatigue a constant struggle for you? Does it happen everyday, or just on certain days? Some people drink energy drinks if they're having a bad day. Did you ever try energy drinks? I've tried them in the past, and they do tend to give me a little more energy, but I don't make a habit of it. Just if I'm having a particularly bad day. Have you seen the doctor for your tests yet? Have you started the accupuncture yet? Would like to know if it helps you. I'm curious about accupuncture. Stay well!!
>
> LaoHey Lao! Nice dream, I love dreams like that. Your lucky you can experience such dreams and remember them.
I am still struggling from fatigue to some degree everyday. I think the muscle stiffness/weakness combined with the mind numbing anxiety is what is just killing me. I haven't started acupuncture yet but I look forward to doing so. I will definitely report back here after doing it a few times. I'm really more interested in physical healing benefits than I am in mental health benefits.
I here you on the Holy Basil. I think it does something beneficial but over time the effect seems to fade and it may not be worth spending the money on continual supplementation. I don't take holy basil everyday anymore. I'm going to take it periodically on an as needed basis. I just spoke to someone that said if you are taking Holy Basil for adrenal fatigue, you only have to take it daily for a while and you should be able to still benefit from it's positive effects on adrenals after stopping. Who knows.
I'm curious to see how your trial with TCM goes. I look forward to hearing you report back with a positive response.
>It seems my problem is much bigger than any one herb can help with.
I think this is the case with most of us. Though there was a day when I just took 100 mg Zoloft and 3 to 4 grams of fish oil everyday and I felt pretty damn good.
>Did you ever try energy drinks?
Energy drinks used to overstimulate me and destabilize me, now they just make me feel gross and don't seem to energize me much. Ugh, my hurting brain!!
>I do rather well with ginger because for some odd reason it affects my mood positively.
I love ginger! I make ginger tea from fresh organic ginger nearly everday. Did you know ginger boosts testosterone?
Did I tell you about my recent addition of micronized DHEA to my regimen? So far so good. Just upped my dosage from 5 mg to 25 mg today after finding out that some SSRIs and lithium can reduce levels of DHEA. If I notice anything spectacular with DHEA I will report back. Have you ever thought of taking pregnenolone? I have read that it can help with negative symptoms and cognitive issues in schizophrenic, schizoaffective, and bipolar patients. It has also been shown to promote neurogenesis. I may try it after a few months of DHEA supplementation. I'm a little worried that pregnenolone may be too stimulating and possibly agitate me. I guess I will never know until I try!
Good luck with the TCM! Be well brotha!
Morgan
Posted by Lao Tzu on July 29, 2010, at 8:44:36
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan, posted by morgan miller on July 28, 2010, at 17:18:35
I tried pregnenolone a few years ago. It gave me energy, yes, but overall, I didn't like it. I did feel a little agitated while taking it. I have tried DHEA as well, and I was disappointed. I actually felt worse on it, but perhaps, I was taking the wrong kind. I didn't take the micronized form. I tried taking some GABA yesterday, and I think I just wasted $10 for nothing. I call it a stupid supplement. It doesn't even cross the blood brain barrier, and if indeed there are problems with GABA/Glutamate neurotransmission, just dumping a lot of GABA into your system won't do sh*t. There is a theory that bipolars and schizophrenics may have problems with GABA neurotransmission, but so far from what I could dig up on the web, it's just a theory in progress. I don't think we've gotten that far to say a drug that works on GABA will definitely help schizophrenics, although I am hopeful about the new glutamate drugs coming out in a few years. I wish, and so I hope my wish will be granted someday. I have also tried glutamine supplements, and the only time glutamine ever worked for me was when I was taking Ativan. The two worked great together, so there is something to the GABA/Glutamate theory, it's just not proven as of yet.
Have you ever tried yoga for your physical maladies? It may do wonders for you, but I don't know for sure.
The only things that are working for me in the way of supplements are the vitamins and minerals, along with some ginger each day. I don't do well on aminos at all. I have to tell you I've tried so many different supplements over the years, and found no relief. I've wasted a lot of money on junk! It's only in the past couple of years that I have found relief in vitamins and minerals along with my meds. I'm thinking that the TCM will be very helpful for me. I just received the herbs in the mail the other day, but I haven't taken them yet. I'm going to see if I'm all right with my current regimen before I take them. If I need a little more boost, then I'll try it. In the winter, I was taking alpha lipoic acid for oxidative stress. Overall, it helped a little with motivation and energy, but I don't seem to tolerate it that well. I have been taking 200mcg of folate every other day, and it seems to help with depression somewhat, but the strange thing is that a few years ago, I couldn't tolerate any folate at all. It caused mood swings and depression. Now I can tolerate a little. It seems to help somewhat with libido by increasing histamine levels. People with high histamine levels tend to have strong libidos. In the winter when I take B12 everyday, I also seem to have a stronger libido, and sex isn't a problem at all. I think one of the best things I've done this year was to balance my magnesium and calcium levels. I sleep better at night, whereas only a year ago, I had trouble falling asleep at night and it bothered me. Magnesium is good for so many things in your body, teeth, bones, heart, mind, etc. You have to watch the Calcium, however. I stay with 500mg at bedtime. It helps me sleep. Too much, and I don't feel right. There might be something going on with calcium metabolism in bipolars, so it's wise not to take too much.
I really think I need to get out there and start doing some form of exercise because it seems to be great for depression, especially in bipolars. And I have to stop smoking eventually. I think the smoking is adding to my depression to a great degree. Without the cigarettes, I think I would feel really good. Damn those things! I should have never started. I started at a vulnerable time in my life when the bipolar was getting worse. I socialized a lot, and I guess I thought it would be no big deal to try and fit in. It was the stupidest thing I ever did in my life. When I spent nine days in the hospital, I quit smoking, and when I got out, I felt on top of the world. I was liberated, so to speak. But then I did something stupid. After I got out, I stopped taking my Buspar and started taking Provigil again. Well, the Provigil was too stimulating for me and I went back to smoking again. If I had just stuck with the Buspar and didn't take the Provigil, I probably would have quit for good, but who knows for sure? At that time, I was really manic, and I probably would have started up again no matter what drugs I was taking. I try not to feel guilty about it, but it was very stupid of me. Currently, some company is working on a smoking cessation drug that affects GABA neurotransmission because GABA is involved in the self-administering of nicotine in some way. Good things are on their way. I just have to be patient.
Well, wish you well today. Have a good one!!Lao
Posted by morgan miller on July 29, 2010, at 23:50:00
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan, posted by Lao Tzu on July 29, 2010, at 8:44:36
>I have been taking 200mcg of folate every other day, and it seems to help with depression somewhat, but the strange thing is that a few years ago, I couldn't tolerate any folate at all. It caused mood swings and depression. Now I can tolerate a little. It seems to help somewhat with libido by increasing histamine levels. People with high histamine levels tend to have strong libidos.
You need the folate now because Lamictal depletes folate! You are taking Lamictal aren't you? I think L Methyl Folate is one of the best forms. Folinic acid is another good form. I believe Source Naturals makes a product called MegaFolinic with folinic acid.
>I tried taking some GABA yesterday, and I think I just wasted $10 for nothing.
I've taken GABA for sleep and relaxation and I swear it helped me both relax and sleep. I know it's not supposed to be able to cross the BBB but I think it still works because there are GABA receptors throughout your body and it's effects somehow reach your brain. Have you ever heard of Picamillon?
Do you have issues with sleep? My friend who has schizo-affective has horrible insomnia half of the time.
>I sleep better at night, whereas only a year ago, I had trouble falling asleep at night and it bothered me.
Dah um, I totally missed that somehow.
>I really think I need to get out there and start doing some form of exercise because it seems to be great for depression, especially in bipolars.
Yes! Too bad you don't enjoy going to the gym. Still, you can take up road biking or running. I would recommend more intense brief periods of exercise if you are running. Long distance running at a jogger's pace really isn't very good for one's health in the long run. Have you ever seen P90X? It's a great way to get in great shape. High intensity interval training is really good for your heart, lungs, and brain. I prefer getting on the elliptical or stationery bike and just going hard and fast for about 20 minutes straight. I focus on my breathing, taking air through my mouth and then through my nose. When I used to get in a zone running hard on the treadmill I remember getting to a point where I was just breathing out of my nose. The breathing was effortless even though I was running pretty fast. I was also completely relaxed would actually find myself closing my eyes at times, as if I were meditating. I actually think that cardiovascular exercise is most beneficial to the brain when you can reach that "zone" and relax and get into that meditative effortless breathing. I think it is important to breath through the nose at least half of the time as you are putting oxygen directly into your brain.
>And I have to stop smoking eventually.
Have you tried nicotine gum or the patch? Maybe exercising more will help you cut down and eventually quit.
I look forward to newer better treatments with less side effects coming out. I will always miss the days when I just took Zoloft and fish oil and worked out and felt great. Ugh, my hurting brain and body!
Have a great weekend! Peace out brotha!
Morgan
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Alternative | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.