![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 34 to 58 of 96. Go back in thread:
Posted by morgan miller on July 6, 2010, at 16:18:56
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!)))Morgan, posted by Lao Tzu on July 6, 2010, at 10:56:14
Do you still at least take a lower dose of fish oil or can you not take it at all? I started taking it ten years ago when I was 27 because I heard through my mom that it could help with depression and anxiety. At the time I did not know I was bipolar(like I said before, for several reasons, I should have been aware of it or made aware of it) and I was taking l00 mg of Zoloft which was working quite well. I found that after a week of taking fish oil, back then it was a fairly low dose, I just felt better, functioned better, and had more energy.
I find that fish oil and holy basil have the most noticeable benefit. And then maybe glycine, magnesium, and taurine for sleep. I'm not a huge fan of melatonin-too powerful and effect is too inconsistent.
I exercised for years and it was crucial for managing anxiety, mood, and depression. I'm an athlete and had suffered a few fairly significant injurie(one from a bad car accidentI) so my body and my sensitive brain/physiology needed moderate to intense exercise over the years. I'm one of those people that gets VERY high off exercise. All of the right endorphins and other chemicals would kick in at full force, especially when I was feeling well and on a medication that was working for me. Unfortunately, things have been different nowadays, which is one of the reasons why I am struggling so much more. My body is simply a complete train wreck(my brain is too, bad combination..wish I had one or the other so I could more easily work on one or the other). When I was 33 and working at an elementary school I started working for a friend's moving company during my summers off. After my second summer at 34 I started realizing how much my body had suffered from this type of work. I was a maniac out there and doing things guys my size just would not normally do. I contribute my bad decision to do this type of work partially to my bipolar(at the time I still did not know I was). I also know that my childhood and the role my parents played or did not play was big reason why I did not take care of myself and protect myself like I would have liked to. I actually also contribute the development of my bipolar genetic predisposition to my childhood experience. I am a true believer in the bio-psycho-social model.
Anyway, I am not doing well in so many ways-physiological, chemical, spiritual, and physical-in such a short short period of time. I can not believe I felt well enough and strong enough to do the kind of hardcore go go go, sprint up and down stairs, and move ridiculously heavy pieces of furniture just a few years ago. I know I'm 37 now but I am pretty sure other things are at play here.
At the beginning of the summer of 2007 when I was 34 and just before I started my second round of moving work, I ran out of Zoloft one day and didn't have the money to refill it so I decided I would try to get off it cold turkey. After 5 days and some intense withdrawals I was feeling pretty good and really thought this was the end of medication for me. My first time out at the bars I definitely felt a little off. I just was not as comfortable as I usually was. I'm quite the social butterfly and extrovert. I also noticed I did not react the same way to alcohol. I did not have as much of a tolerance and did not seem to get as good a buzz. The next few times I went out I felt more comfortable and reacted better to drinking alcohol. At this point I was really beginning to believe that I no longer needed medication and I could function and live normally without it. I started noticing toward the end of the summer and beginning of the fall, I was becoming more anxious and depressed and obsessive compulsive. I started back at the elementary school and started psychology courses at the local community college. I was feeling o.k. but noticed feeling more on edge and uptight than normal. I simply did not feel as comfortable or as stimulated as I was used to feeling. I was also realizing at the time that I had to have a conversation with my ex girlfriend about how I felt about her and what I wanted to do to maybe try to reignite the relationship we had-or really never were able to continue to have. My getting my act together and much of the stress of the previous few years had much to do with my ex girlfriend(I played in a grungy punk rock band and lived in la la land for several years up until about 32 when I started to try to deal with reality more and grow up.) As the fall progressed I began to notice that some of the physical issues resulting from the moving work just were not going away. I was also noticing physical issues that I had not noticed during the summer or even at the end of the summer. I think I was just moving so much and running on endorphins and adrenaline that I could not feel the damage I had done. I would work a hard 9 hour day and go straight to the gym and work out pretty hard. I think working out and stretching after moving work was actually a good thing, but I was taking it too far and doing some heavy lifting some of those days. By the time the middle of October rolled around I was becoming increasingly stressed over a few things, mostly dealing with the ex and the condition of my body, college courses were secondary to these. Halloween weekend my roommates threw a party. I ended up drinking more than I had planned. I was about to go to bed when I heard people yelling and screaming. I knew I should just ignore it and go to bed but I put my shoes back on and went downstairs to check it out anyway. It turned out a friend of mine was wasted and being a total jack *ss and was instigating a fight with these young punks that crashed the party. I got between my buddy and one of the young guys and was basically attacked by the young guy and all his friends. I was exhausted and drunk and in no shape to fight back and defend myself. I took the worst beating of my life. I ended up having to drive myself to the hospital emergency room to get a huge gash under my eyebrow and above my eyelid stitched up. I remember crying while I was waiting for the doctor in the hospital bed. I was definitely shaken. I blew it off the next day and beyond convincing myself that the experience did not affect me emotionally. Well it ended up being the final trigger that helped to send me into the worst mixed episode of my life. In November I began to feel even more stressed out and started to feel periods of pretty heavy depression. I tried 5htp and I noticed that it helped immediately. Unfortunately it was not enough and may have contributed to some rapid cycling that I had never experienced before. I was also waking up every hour or so some nights, something else I had not experienced before. I was not on medication, I was feeling more and more stressed over dealing with my ex and school, I was noticing more and more how damaged my body was and how it was not recovering(including my skin that I had not protected from the sun much the past few summers-I have fairly pale skin), and I was beat up pretty bad in my own house-this was the "perfect storm" that sent me into a horrific mixed episode. The first week in December I was taking a nap during my lunch hour at work and woke up out of it in a bit of a panic. This I believe was the beginning of my mixed episode. I remember seeing images quickly flash in my mind of my life and my greatest fears-getting old and being damaged was one of my greatest fears, one that I had suppressed and escaped for quite a long time. I left work and went straight to my physician's assistant to see what she had thought about getting back on medication. I had been trying to get in with a few psychiatrists that were recommended but I had to wait a month or so to see them. I couldn't wait any longer and was in a bit of a panic and feeling desperate. My world was falling apart within me and around me. The physician's assistant put me on Lexapro. Two days later I went to see her and she gave me a script for Xanax. It ended up that the combination of Lexapro and Xanax may have worsened my mixed state. I was given the week before the holiday break started off work after breaking down and talking to my principal. I came back after the break was over but this only lasted a few days. I was very ill. At this point I applied for disability so I could take an indefinite period of time off work. Then one night at group therapy I told my therapist that I was just too uncomfortable to the unbearable point and thought it was time to go to the local private psychiatric hospital. She drove me to the hospital and I contacted family members. After the 2nd day there and some evaluation, I was told that they thought I was bipolar and needed to try Depakote and maybe Zyprexa to help take me out of a severe mixed manic episode. I contacted my therapist to ask her what she thought and her exact words were, "You are NOT bipolar". I didn't want to believe I was and didn't want to take the mood stabilizers. I was soooooo confused at this point. My therapist had a Phd. in clinically psychology and did forensic work for the Fairfax Co. police dept. just outside of D.C., so I had a good reason to trust her opinion. After my therapist spoke to the psychiatrist I was seeing in the hospital she told me that I should probably go ahead and start taking the medications. I finally gave in and started taking depakote and after 3 days and adding a little zyprexa I was back to being able to sleep for 7 to 8 hours. Before I could only sleep for 3 hours during the night and I would wake up with my mind racing stuck on obtrusive obsessive thoughts and feeling extreme agitation.
Ever since this awful life changing experience I have had five arthroscopic surgeries(both knees, both hips, and left carpal tunnel release), I fell into the deepest darkest depression of my life, I have been on 11 different medications, and I have been back to the hospital for a week at Georgetown University. The really f*ck*d up part of the six to 8 month period after my hospitalization is that my therapist continued to question my bipolar diagnosis. This made it harder for me to pursue seeing the right psychiatrist and stay on the right medications. I eventually started to get angry with her and started leaving her nasty messages. I actually screamed "F*ck off!" to her in one of the messages. This was happening in June of 2009 when I had stopped taking the medications I was on(I wasn't doing so well on them but I think they were still stabilizing me some) and about to go back to the hospital because, as usual, I could not seem to find or get into see a good psychiatrist that had a f*ck*ng clue(This one young guy I saw was an ECT specialist and wanted to try ECT on me).
So my life has been pretty unstable with some pretty damn good years, but the last 2 years and 8 months or so have been pure hell. The surgeries and medication trials put my body and my mind in a much worse state than it was before. I also stopped working out after my last hip arthroscopy when I began to sink into a very deep deep depression. I haven't really worked out at all for over a year and a half. This has contributed to the worsening of the state of both my mind and body. Yes I am a complete mess. I started working back in January at a restaurant I worked at 3 years ago. Then, 3 months ago I got another job at an organic market, sort of a "Ma and Pa" version of Wholefoods. I feel better that I am back to work but I do NOT feel well at all. I started taking generic Synthroid 3 weeks ago hoping that would help me feel better but so far it's impact has been minimal. My thyroid was on the low end of normal range and had been for a while so my doctor decided to treat me for it because I was experiencing so many of the symptoms of hypothyroidism. I feel so bad it's hard for me to get myself to work out at the gym, something I did religiously for years. No matter how hard I was working or how much sleep I didn't get, I knew what feeling really tired was but I never really experienced fatigue. Anyway, now I'm rambling on. That is much of my story.
I was definitely spoiled in the past for many years feeling fairly invincible and capable of doing many things physically that most people could not come close to. Losing this invincible feeling is definitely affecting me psychologically. I think feeling the way I did and being able to perform the way I did covered up and managed much of what was going on with me. I rode the high for a very long time. Now I have crashed and feel much worse and can do much less than the average person my age. It's not cool, not cool at all.
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on July 6, 2010, at 16:20:49
In reply to Re: posting name, posted by Lao Tzu on July 6, 2010, at 10:38:57
>Have you experienced vivid dreams from Holy Basil, Morgan?
I have had very vivid imaginative dreams lately, but SSRIs seem to have this effect on me and I've always had very vivid imaginative dreams ever since I was quite young.
Posted by morgan miller on July 6, 2010, at 16:26:08
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!)))Morgan, posted by Lao Tzu on July 6, 2010, at 10:56:14
>Do you take high dose fish oil for your bipolar disorder, and if so, does it help you?
I think fish oil has always helped me. At times I have had so much else going on that I have not felt much of the benefit of fish oil but continued to take it anyway. I believe fish oil works best when other medications are helping and your mind is working o.k. to begin with. I do think that the higher dose I have been taking recently is helping some. I may go back down to a more normal dose if I don't continue to feel better.
Posted by Lao Tzu on July 6, 2010, at 19:42:34
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!)))Morgan, posted by morgan miller on July 6, 2010, at 16:26:08
Thank you so much for relating your story to me. I really do appreciate it. I am sincerely empathetic. We're close in age. I'm 39 years old, born in April, 1971. You've been through hell, and I know what that is like. When you reach that breaking point, your whole life seems to unravel, thread by thread. I mean, I lost my girlfriend of one and a half years. I lost my job of 5 years. I lost all of my friends, except two of them. And I lost my apartment, where I lived for over two years on my own. I enjoyed living on my own. It was new for me, and I had good memories there that I won't forget. In fact, I remember the first day in my new place and how quiet it was. It was exciting. I wasn't lonely. I was free. But now, I'm back to living with my family, who I love, but would rather be on my own. And I hate the town I live in. It's too congested. I like the country, peaceful, quiet, that's my idea of living.
I wanted to ask you, have you made any new relationships since this all happened to you? Any new girlfirends? My doctor would like to see me socialize more, but I find it difficult due to my social withdrawal. I used to date. I liked it, in fact. It made me feel a part of someone else's world. It enriched my life to be with someone else. To not be lonely anymore. I hope to forge new relationships one day, and I hope the same for you.
I lost my girlfriend, Lisa, because I started to become manic and delusional. One evening while walking together in the park, she noticed that I had a woman's ring on my right hand. She asked me why I was wearing it. I told her that it made me feel better, as if it had some magical properties. She laughed nervously, and I think after that incident is when she decided not to see me anymore. I never thought of her as someone I would marry, but she was a dear friend of mine. We had a lot of good times together, and I really miss her.
So you've been in and out of the hospital for your illness? Not getting the right diagnosis, huh? I didn't get the diagnosis of bipolar/schizophrenia until 2006. Years ago, I was just diagnosed as having depression and anxiety. But back then, I had no psychosis. I wonder what took so long for the psychosis to appear? I was committed only once for nine days. Because I have social anxiety, that was a nightmare for me. I didn't like sharing a room with someone else, and I didn't like the group meetings. I was scared to death back then. I really didn't know what was happening to me. All I knew is that one day, I woke up in my apartment, and I was hearing voices talking to me and shouting at me all day long. The only time I didn't hear them was when I was asleep. It was the most annoying, anxiety-provoking period of my entire life. There are three different voices that I hear. Two of them are men, and one is a woman. They changed with time. Initially, they were confusing. They talked about religion a lot, and one was the devil cursing at me and taunting me. Now, they are just voices of people that I worked with at the pharmaceutical company. Today, I realize the voices are just Me, just parts of my personality. They are curious like little children, sometimes angry, but mostly comforting, thanks to the medication. If I'm relaxed, so are they. I really don't know why they are there in the first place. They just started talking one day, and they haven't shut up since. I laugh about it sometimes because they are like children, trying to make me laugh all the time. I know it's weird, but I don't know how they came to be.
You said you don't feel too well nowadays. What is bothering you the most nowadays? You said you miss the physical endurance you had years ago, being able to lift a lot of heavy things and working out. I have fatigue problems too. I believe you'll get your endurance back one day, maybe not 100% , but it will get better.You said you were experiencing a lot of stress on your physical body from all of that heavy work and working out, and of course, being stressed out. There is a definite connection between mind and body. When the body is stressed the mind breaks down too. I think that is what happened to me also. My job was very physically demanding as well. I was a laboratory animal technician. I did it for 5 years. I think my physical body just wore out and my mind, which was already fragile, started to reach that breaking point. And then when I lost my job, I was so distraught, and then the voices came after that.
Yeah, it's been a rough road for me these last six years. After reading your story, I feel honored that you would share it with me. Thank you so much for telling me about yourself. I'd like to hear more whenever you feel like it. Stay well, Morgan.~Lao~
Posted by Lao Tzu on July 6, 2010, at 21:15:53
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!)))Morgan, posted by morgan miller on July 6, 2010, at 16:26:08
Oh, I also wanted to say I'm glad that you are working. That's a positive step in the healing process. My doctor's been trying to get me to go back to work for over a year now, but I've been very stubborn about not doing it. My biggest complaint would be that I still have social anxiety and I use this as my excuse not to work. I really don't know if I could do it long-term or not. Maybe short-term, but then what good is that going to do me? I realize that someday, I'm going to have to do something with my life just to survive. I've been on disability for three years now, but when my parents pass away, it will be me, my younger brother, and my sister. I think my brother and I will be sticking together in some fashion. He doesn't have my problems, and he might be the one supporting us both in the late future. I don't know. Maybe I can do something. Eventually, I'll have to prove it to myself one way or the other.
I'm also answering your question as to whether I take fish oil or not. I take a small amount each night before bed, about 1,500mg . It helps keep my triglyceride levels at normal, which is a plus because of the Risperdal I take, so I don't have to take any statin meds for high cholesterol, at least not at the present time.
I like the Holy Basil. At first, I wasn't sure it was right for me, but it's starting to grow on me, well, not literally. I tried turmeric. Just didn't like it because it felt like I was taking pain relievers (NSAIDS). Not very energetic at all. Holy Basil seems more agreeable. Perhaps by staying on it, I'll see more improvement as far as emotional balance. Going to keep track of my vivid dreams to see if it's the Holy Basil. I hope you had a nice holiday weekend.~Lao~
Posted by morgan miller on July 6, 2010, at 22:39:05
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!)))Morgan, posted by Lao Tzu on July 6, 2010, at 21:15:53
I'm glad you like holy basil so far. Hope it continues to give you some benefit.
Thanks for you kind words. I have really been forcing it with the working thing, it has not been easy at all. If it were just a mood issue and not a physiological/fatigue issue I would probably be able to handle working a bit easier. My anxiety is horrible and my fatigue is kicking my *ss. I'm really hoping that treating my thyroid will help with the way I've been feeling. Things have not been going so well at both jobs so I really don't know how long this working thing will last. I HAVE to start feeling better soon!
I have forced myself to work while feeling pretty awful and barely able to function at a normal level for most of the time I have been working. Maybe you should just make yourself get a part time job and you will find that you begin to feel more comfortable erasing the fears and reasons you have for not working. I think this would have been the case with me if I were not dealing with other physical and health issues.
Sometimes I can't believe that I'm ever talking about my physical, energy and working issues. I was so full of energy and functioned at such a high level just a few years ago. What a nightmare.
Posted by Hombre on July 7, 2010, at 2:12:53
In reply to Some of my story » Lao Tzu, posted by morgan miller on July 6, 2010, at 16:18:56
Morgan,
I want to sincerely suggest considering a meditation or, better yet, a good tai chi class (it should include certain forms of 'meditation', although it's not about spirituality as many might think). I think of this after reading your story not only because of my own, personal experiences with these methods, but also because I am influenced by the experiences of Jon Kabatt-Zinn ("Full Catastrophe Living") and the work he's done with people who have been put through a lot both physically and emotionally and need a way to start the healing process. This is a guy who runs a clinic and his students are recommended by their physicians. If you check out his book you will find nothing but rational discourse. One might say that our attempts to "tough it out" (I've been there) are examples of a critical lack of awareness.
Many, many people have turned to these methods to get back in touch with their bodies and gradually heal injuries. One might even say that the founder of tai chi, a retired general, created it in order to deal with a lifetime of violence and trauma on the battlefield. Yes, what most people envision as a hippy dance has its roots in combat.
If you can find an authentic school you will be challenged no matter how athletic you were (yes, I know you have injuries). Tai chi and certain other "soft" forms of martial arts excel at not only working with the soft tissues (ligaments/tendons/fascia) but also realigning chronic misalignments that cause pain and dysfunction. There's a reason that a lot of the toughest fighters and brawlers eventually turn to arts like Tai Chi Chuan to heal themselces. It works.
Respectfully,
Hombre
Posted by morgan miller on July 7, 2010, at 9:16:11
In reply to Re: Some of my story » morgan miller, posted by Hombre on July 7, 2010, at 2:12:53
Thanks so much for your advice and the information Hombre! Someone else suggested Tai Chi a few years ago when I started noticing these problems(now they are waaaay worse, wish I had taken them up on their advice.
I guess it would be easier to start off going to some classes.
Yeah I have pretty bad issues with ligaments, tendons, in just about every part of my body. I'm definitely going to look into Tai Chi. Thanks again.
Morgan
Posted by Lao Tzu on July 7, 2010, at 11:11:40
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!)))Morgan, posted by morgan miller on July 6, 2010, at 22:39:05
Morgan, this may be too simplistic for your fatigue, but I noticed a definite difference in my fatigue when I started taking certain supplements other than holy basil, which I find is good for fatigue too. Great suggestion!! For example, I thought that I needed to balance my calcium and magnesium levels to help with fatigue. At bedtime ONLY, I first take a CHELATED cal/mag supplement that supplies 500mg amino acid chelate calcium with 250mg of amino acid magnesium. To that I add 300mg more of magnesium citrate (not oxide!!). Just by doing this, I sleep better and have more energy the following day. I only take the cal/mag supplements at bedtime, not during the day because if you take them during the day, that will affect your energy levels probably negatively. During the day, I'll add the following:
1. 100-200IU of natural vitamin E. The 100IU vitamine E is hard to find, but Country Life does make a 100IU vitamin E, which I have found does help with energy if you need antioxidants.
2. 500mg of calcium ascorbate (Vitamin C)
3. 50mg of B2 (Riboflavin) for energy
4. 100mg of B1 (Thiamine) for energy/depression
5. 50-100mg of B6
50mcg of selenium (yeast-based). The selenium at 50mcg does help with energy. All you need is 50mcg, not higher dosages.Also, if you are deficient in vitamin B12, taking 500mcg or more per day can give you an added boost. I have also heard that adding vitamin B5 (50-100mg) can also give you energy, but this was never the case for me so I don't add it to my regimen.
These are just some suggestions that help me with fatigue. Maybe it's too simplistic for your condition. I don't really know. The fatigue could be caused by so many things. It's hard to know what's causing it sometimes. Definitely, just by working so much, you're going to expend a lot of energy, and this will add to your fatigue. I guess eating a proper diet with Wholefoods (lots of veggies, no sugar, complex carbohydrates) will also go a long way to helping you with fatigue. Hope you feel better.
~Lao~
Posted by Lao Tzu on July 7, 2010, at 11:33:01
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!)))Morgan, posted by Lao Tzu on July 7, 2010, at 11:11:40
The Depression alone can cause much of the feelings of fatigue. If you treat the Depression properly, the fatigue will generally get better as has been my experience so far. It's what steps you take to treat the depression that are important. I guess anything you do to reduce stress on the mind will allow the body to heal properly. When the mind is stressed, the body also is affected. Am I being to simplistic? This is just what I've learned over the years of being depressed, anxious, and having low energy. I'm sure Tai Chi would be good for anybody's well-being, the total mind/body connection. I like Hombre's suggestions of TCM. I looked on some of the websites, and there are some good herbal tonics for all weakened organ systems. I just get confused as to which ones would be right for me. So in my confusion I haven't tried any of the tonics just yet because I'm not having any severe symptoms.
Posted by morgan miller on July 7, 2010, at 12:01:10
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!)))Morgan, posted by Lao Tzu on July 7, 2010, at 11:11:40
Thanks for the well wishes and suggestions. I actually take most or all of the supplements you suggested. I'm really hoping one of the reasons for my fatigue was my thyroid gland. I will be trying Armour or Nature-Throid soon to replace Synthriod. I'm not crazy about Synthroid and I don't like that I can't even enjoy 2 or 3 beers(which is the most I ever plan on drinking) on its.
Posted by Hombre on July 7, 2010, at 18:19:23
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!)))Morgan » Lao Tzu, posted by morgan miller on July 7, 2010, at 12:01:10
One more thing...
Traditional martial arts schools have these external liniments called "Dit Da Jow". They are herbal formulas soaked in alcohol and water for a long time. When applied to acute or chronic injuries, they increase blood flow and speed healing. They do more than that depending on which herbs on in them, but that's the general idea. The are much more powerful than Tiger Balm or similar menthol/camphor liniments.
When I moved to Asia to study martial arts I bought some Jow and it served me well. I would put it on my sore knees and ankles after a hard workout. I never had any lingering injuries. The think with chronic soft tissue injuries is that these areas tend to have limited blood flow. The Jow will warm up the areas, reduce pain, and actually speed healing.
Also, martial arts schools developed tonic soups/formulas to be taken internally. Again, these increase circulation and speed healing of injuries. Fighters would sustain injuries from their training, and in order to get back to training as soon as possible, they developed these internal formulas to help support the body's systems and enhance overall health.
I ordered from this guy, Dale Dugas, and his service was excellent. Feel free to ask him any questions and he will help you out:
Since he is in Boston he may also be able to point you toward some authentic teachers in you area.
For the sake of balance, here's another site that sells similar products.
http://www.shenmartialarts.com/default.asp
As far as I can tell they have quality products (so many fakes out there). Again, contact the site. In my experience, martial artists are usually in it out of sheer passion, so they will often go out of their way to help someone who contacts them.
To learn more, check out this book:
"A Tooth From The Tiger's Mouth"
Just letting you know of some options that are out there. I am not trying to push my views on you.
Salud,
Hombre
Posted by Hombre on July 7, 2010, at 18:39:13
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!)))Morgan, posted by morgan miller on July 6, 2010, at 22:39:05
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20100516/msgs/951212.html
I went through a year of constant anxiety and fatigue. It was hell making it through each day. Even when I started my current med regimen, I still had random anxiety and fatigue. Treating the kidneys and spleen have really knocked that out and have given me a calmness and will power that I've lacked for almost two decades.
Kidney Yang and Qi are related to hypothyroidism:
http://www.itmonline.org/arts/thyroid.htm
Don't get lost in the jargon. Look at clusters of symptoms and patterns.
Best of luck,
Hombre
Posted by morgan miller on July 7, 2010, at 18:47:07
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) - Fatigue/Hypothyroidism, posted by Hombre on July 7, 2010, at 18:39:13
Thanks again Hombre..Hey have you ever heard about PRP-platelet rich plasma therapy? I used it just one time for a tight groin after hip surgery and it worked like a charm. Now I need to follow up and get it done everywhere. I'm also interested in hip bone marrow stem cell treatments. There is a place in Colorado called Regenexx using these treatments to heal new and old injuries. My doctor that performed the PRP on me is trained to do hip bone marrow stem cell treatments but I'm not sure if he is offering them yet. At the time I was seeing him he was waiting to see how he could make the treatments more affordable to his patients.
Posted by Hombre on July 8, 2010, at 1:35:04
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) - Fatigue/Hypothyroidism » Hombre, posted by morgan miller on July 7, 2010, at 18:47:07
I'd never heard of PRP before. If it worked for you before, it sounds like it could work again. I hope it is affordable and something you can eventually do. The body is capable of amazing things given the right circumstances. I have no doubt you can overcome your injuries in time.
In TCM, blood is the mother of Qi and Qi moves the blood. A weak digestive system will decrease the amount of blood and/or the quality of one's blood. Food and drink cannot be properly transformed into blood. In this case, the TCM idea of the spleen and the Western view are close - the spleen does produce RBCs, although bone marrow is probably where most of it happens. The weak spleen in TCM is also related to overthinking, worrying, poor ability to learn and form memories, and of course digestive woes. A lack of blood will result in thinking problems, anxiety, insomnia, palpitations.
The TCM kidneys are also related to marrow, bone health and mental function. Again, certain hormones released in the kidneys control calcium balance.
The TCM liver is associated with tendons and sinews. It is also at the heart of most depressive conditions, because in its healthy state it is responsible for our ability to express ourselves, for our energy and abilities to flow. When we get frustrated or if our lifestyle damages our liver, the resulting stagnation or other problems can really screw with our whole system. Everything is connected.
I know it all sounds like voodoo, but we have to remember that these observations were assembled over hundreds if not thousands of years. I don't do the explanations justice. All I know is that following the principles does seem to do what it's supposed to do, for the most part. Combining different methodologies can often produce well-rounded effects.
Cheers,
Hombre
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 8, 2010, at 3:45:25
In reply to Re: posting name, posted by morgan miller on July 6, 2010, at 12:52:23
Posted by morgan miller on July 8, 2010, at 9:34:45
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) - Fatigue/Hypothyroidism » morgan miller, posted by Hombre on July 8, 2010, at 1:35:04
I think what scares me about overcoming the extensive damage in my musculoskeletal system is that things have just progressively worsened and I am now 37 years old. Now I realize that I had 5 minor elective surgeries that I probably should have not had and followed them by stopping working out for almost 2 years.
If one has good insurance it will hopefully PRP will only cost around $200. I think this is a reasonable cost considering that it is not invasive, has little or no risk, and can be a permanent solution.
Here are a few links
I am definitely going to check out the information you gave me on TCM. I am going to get some reflexology done so I'm not sure if that would help or go along the same lines as what you are talking about.
Thanks again for your insight.
Morgan
Posted by Lao Tzu on July 8, 2010, at 11:40:15
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) - Fatigue/Hypothyroidism, posted by morgan miller on July 8, 2010, at 9:34:45
Thanks again, Morgan, for recommending Holy Basil! I'm taking it twice a day now, and I find it does help with greater emotional balance. In my opinion, it is better than Siberian or Panax Ginseng as an adaptogen. I never did well on either of those. Stay well.
~Lao~
Posted by morgan miller on July 8, 2010, at 12:24:49
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan, posted by Lao Tzu on July 8, 2010, at 11:40:15
> Thanks again, Morgan, for recommending Holy Basil! I'm taking it twice a day now, and I find it does help with greater emotional balance. In my opinion, it is better than Siberian or Panax Ginseng as an adaptogen. I never did well on either of those. Stay well.
>
> ~Lao~That's great! I'm glad you're feeling some positive difference on Holy Basil. I've heard about it helping so many people so I guess I'm not too surprised. Hopefully for you and me and others Holy Basil offers some of the other potential health benefits I've read it may have.
You stay well too! Take care.Morgan
PS. you know it's funny, I always thought you were female. Don't take that the wrong way :-)I'm guessing with a name like Morgan, there are some people here that have wondered if I were male or female.
Posted by Lao Tzu on July 9, 2010, at 9:50:42
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan, posted by morgan miller on July 8, 2010, at 12:24:49
I didn't mean to give it away :) Yes, I was wondering if you were female or not. By the way you write, you seem like a member of the female species, but I'm not asking. Some people like to remain anonymous, so it's none of my business. In fact, an old friend of mine years ago, his son's name is Morgan, which is a unisex name, I think. I just like being here, putting my two cents in, and conversing with others. I've learned quite a bit from p-babble, and I hope I have helped other people with my experiences. I definitely don't know as much as some people here, but I have put my time in researching and experimenting. It's been an obsession for me, and I wish I could just live my life and not have to worry about what new supplements I'm going to try today. I have spent tons of money trying all kinds of supplements over the years, but I noticed I don't come close to the things people have tried here. Mainly, I've been working on mood, and not other symptoms like thyroid problems or probiotics, or heavy metal chelation therapies. However, all those things are interesting and I like to read up on people's experiences. I'm sure there are some good therapies out there that would work for me besides taking vitamins. I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible, but I've been realizing that mental illness usually requires a more complex solution, in my experience so far. Adding some herbs to the mix I believe is making a slight difference, but I think I'm far from learning the real secrets to my illness. I am excited about new medications in the drug pipeline that affect glutamate receptors in the brain. Those drugs are about 3-5 years away, but I am patient. I never say there is no magic bullet, like people have been telling me for years. That statement lacks hope, and I need all the hope in the world. If I'm ever going to feel real better, it's probably medical science that will bring it to me. It just takes time.
Posted by morgan miller on July 9, 2010, at 10:16:53
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan, posted by Lao Tzu on July 9, 2010, at 9:50:42
Hey Lao, I thought I gave away my sex when I told you some of my story. I guess I could be a lesbian, ha ha. I'm a dude. I am a very athletic, masculine man but extremely sensitive at the same time. It has been a blessing and a curse in my life. I am straight and love women. I don't know why I thought I should clear that up.
I agree with much of what you say about modern medicine and the treatment of illness such as ours. I really hope you and I find relief in some treatment one day and get back to being the people we were meant to be.
I know you mentioned that you play tennis with your brother, but do you ever take part in moderate to intense cardiovascular exercise-like riding a stationery bike, running on a treadmill, or using the eliptical machine?
Posted by Lao Tzu on July 10, 2010, at 20:08:16
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan » Lao Tzu, posted by morgan miller on July 9, 2010, at 10:16:53
I used to bike a lot for exercise, but I've gotten away from it a bit. I have a couple of nice bikes. I may go back to it after all. I always enjoyed biking. I guess in a way it's a childhood thing because as kids we rode bikes all the time during our summers. The memories have always stayed with me. Then, I was "normal" and highly energetic unlike today. At my last job, I did work out in the weight room with one of my colleagues. Since I lost my job to this illness, I haven't been back to the gym. It was a positive experience, though. I only did it for a few months and then quit, but I did feel better about myself in that short time span. I also like running on the treadmill, but I'm not crazy about the elliptical.
Yeah, I'm a sensitive guy myself. Like you, I adore women. I'm hoping one day to get back into a relationship again. It's difficult with this illness. One day, you feel positive about it, the next day it's the furthest thing from your mind. But I do love women. Always have. I like their sensitivity. I always respond to that quality in women. The longest relationship for me was about a year and a half. And I was a late bloomer. I didn't start dating until I was about 28-29 when I started working for the pharmaceutical company. I didn't date in college because that's when the illness started, and back then I didn't know what was happening to me. I just came off as rather shy and severely introverted. But I'm sure it was a lot more than just being shy.
I've only had two steady girlfriends, but the experience was both uplifting and disappointing. I found out one of the girls had a mood disorder. At times, she was very pleasant, and at other times a complete nightmare. I actually lost my virginity to her, which I was finally happy that it happened, but we broke up after a brief relationship. How are relationships working out for you lately? I did a lot of internet dating a few years back. It's not a bad way to meet people in my opinion since I was never a social butterfly.
Anyway, I can't say enough about the Holy Basil. I think it really is helping with my emotions. Its effect is subtle. It's one of the few herbs that I actually think I like. Hats off to you for suggesting it. I'm taking the maximum dosage listed on the bottle. I still need all of my other vitamins, but it has been very useful to me so far.
Enjoy reading your replies. Stay well!!Lao
Posted by morgan miller on July 10, 2010, at 21:28:19
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan, posted by Lao Tzu on July 10, 2010, at 20:08:16
Hey Lao, when I have more energy I will give you a better reply : )
Relationships are very difficult for me right now with as bad as I've been feeling. Things are more complicated than what I have revealed so far. There is something I did a few years ago and it is driving me crazy. I find that it is consuming me. It's physical and it was done out of vanity. I totally regret it. This is definitely getting in the way of me feeling good in general, which is affecting my ability to just live comfortably in the moment and enjoy being with women.
I'm a total mess and live with my father and I still seem to find a way to meet woman and sort of date them. The girl I'm dating now is great but she is growing tire of my suffering. I can't blame her and I think I am going to talk to her and tell her she would be much better off if she stopped dating me. I want to be friends with her and I hope we will be able to continue on with a good friendship. I've grown somewhat dependent on her for relief from the pain I feel. I am starting to shut off any feelings I have for her in preparation for us not seeing each other anymore.
I used to be quite the ladies man, but like you I have never really had a relationship that has gone much longer than a year. The few times that I was in serious relationships, the two of us feel in love hard and fast. They were always very passionate but ended up rocky riddled with dysfunction. I understand it all now and I'm much more mature in so many ways but I am more f*ck*d up in so many other ways than ever before to the point where it is harder than ever to enjoy a relationship or even attract the right person. Ugh....
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on July 10, 2010, at 21:38:55
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan, posted by Lao Tzu on July 10, 2010, at 20:08:16
I'm so glad you like Holy Basil, it's some good stuff. Unfortunately for me right now I have to get some other things straightened out I think in order to consistently feel the benefits of Holy Basil. I just started 5 mg of micronized DHEA today, I'll let you know how it goes.
So what brand of Holy Basil did you end up getting and how much and how often do you take it?
Sorry to hear you have not been able the experience relationships with women the way I'm sure you would have liked to. I believe there will be a day when you will have a more enriching fulfilling and long-lasting relationship than the ones you've had. At least you have had a chance to experience how wonderful a relationship with a woman can be. You sound like I very smart very strong person. I think you will get better and find a way to have success once again with the ladies, and more than you ever did before.
Man, I'm seriously considering applying for disability. I'm just wiped out and in too much pain and discomfort. I curious to know what I would have to do to increase my chances of being approved for it. I'm sure I can get my psychiatrist, my therapist, and my primary care physician to write letters giving reasons why I should be on disability. I should have applied long ago but I was ignorant to the possibility and maybe a bit stubborn, thinking I was going to get a job and get better. Why don't people suggest disability more often? I hate this sh*t. Life is a complete nightmare. Funny I'm saying this now considering I was such a care free, free spirited optimistic person not too long ago.
M-
Posted by Garnetldn on July 11, 2010, at 16:20:39
In reply to Re: Holy Basil Rocks!))) Morgan, posted by morgan miller on July 10, 2010, at 21:38:55
I have tried the HB by New Chapter and also growing Thai Basil. I thought it was helpful, also read that it is an adaptogen. But I am not a good one for keeping with an extract, or even capsules unless highly motivated. When I found that I love the taste and since cravings can often point to something you need I grew and ate a lot of it for two summers. I could even just go out to the garden and eat off the stem while watering. LOL Always made me feel really good and of course I love Thai food made with TB.
As far as I know all Thai Basil is Thai Holy Basil. Although the New Chapter extract is standardized so has a high content of active constituents.
I am on a new hunt though for information on Pyroluria which is a condition of deficiency in B6 and Zinc, mainly that is known to be associated with mood disorders, anxiety and depression. It's a strong connection with some testing available but little in the way of actual markers other than survey studies dating back 30 years or more.
Abram Hoffer MD who started Orthomolecular Medicine along with Linus Pauling and Carl Pieffer MD authored early articles on the so called Mauve Factor.
Mark Vonnegut MD, Kurt Vonnegut's son was treated by Dr Pieffer for a psychotic episode brought on by hallucinogenic mushrooms that landed him in a mental hospital.
I just started a list on Yahoo with resources, mostly links at this point, but I have collected all the scientific publications in my personal files and plan to post those soon.
Hope you can join us and explore this possible explanation for mood disorders, especially those that do not respond to SSRIs.
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Pyrroluria
Garnet
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