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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Larry Hoover on September 19, 2003, at 6:45:26
In reply to Re: Tryptophan vs 5HTP Please Help!!, posted by matthhhh on September 17, 2003, at 17:22:18
> by the way the SJW that i am taking is by organika and it says it is a standardized extract
Just because the label says so, doesn't mean anything.
I've used Organika myself, but there's no way to know if, for example, different batches will be of similar quality.
There's no dose limit. I used five of the Organika 450 mg caps/day.
Lar
Posted by matthhhh on September 19, 2003, at 7:16:13
In reply to Re: Tryptophan vs 5HTP Please Help!! » matthhhh, posted by Larry Hoover on September 19, 2003, at 6:40:54
actually i did have a response to 5htp it made me tired and foggy headed
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 19, 2003, at 9:44:47
In reply to Re: Tryptophan vs 5HTP Please Help!!, posted by matthhhh on September 19, 2003, at 7:16:13
> actually i did have a response to 5htp it made me tired and foggy headed
Try using it at night only, then. Tryptophan would likely have a similar effect. I was once prescribed tryptophan as a sleep aid, but I can't say it did much for me.
Lar
Posted by matthhhh on September 20, 2003, at 19:04:03
In reply to Re: Tryptophan vs 5HTP Please Help!! » matthhhh, posted by Larry Hoover on September 19, 2003, at 9:44:47
Hey Lar, thanks for the reply. i went on the website address you gave for the tryptophan and the only tryptophan i could find on there was for GP Equine which means it is for horses! is this the stuff u were talking about?
Posted by matthhhh on September 20, 2003, at 19:07:30
In reply to Re: Tryptophan vs 5HTP Please Help!! » matthhhh, posted by Larry Hoover on September 19, 2003, at 9:44:47
Anyone had any success with the ultra pure tryptophan order from that gp website?
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 21, 2003, at 5:31:06
In reply to Re: Tryptophan vs 5HTP Please Help!!, posted by matthhhh on September 20, 2003, at 19:04:03
> Hey Lar, thanks for the reply. i went on the website address you gave for the tryptophan and the only tryptophan i could find on there was for GP Equine which means it is for horses! is this the stuff u were talking about?
Yup. No reason to pay more than that, is all. Get the ultra-pure stuff.
Lar
Posted by matthhhh on September 23, 2003, at 8:17:25
In reply to Re: Tryptophan vs 5HTP Please Help!! » matthhhh, posted by Larry Hoover on September 21, 2003, at 5:31:06
Hey Lar, just wondering if you had contacted to the GP company to see if it was ok to take that tryptophan. Im would just be a little concerned about taking it because it says its for horses. thanks
Posted by McPac on September 23, 2003, at 20:18:40
In reply to Re: Tryptophan vs 5HTP Please Help!!, posted by matthhhh on September 23, 2003, at 8:17:25
Since I started taking it my appetite has increased significantly---I now eat a couple of hundred apples every day, 8 buckets of oats, and a few bales of hay....and yesterday I ran the mile in 42 seconds! lol, just kidding, I actually DID buy that product matt (just haven't taken any yet)
Posted by matthhhh on September 24, 2003, at 5:58:52
In reply to Re: Tryptophan vs 5HTP Please Help!!, posted by McPac on September 23, 2003, at 20:18:40
Hey MacPac, so how do u know its safe for humans? i mean if it was suitable for humans you would think they would have a separate brand wouldnt u?
Posted by tealady on September 24, 2003, at 17:42:34
In reply to Re: Tryptophan vs 5HTP Please Help!!, posted by matthhhh on September 24, 2003, at 5:58:52
> Hey MacPac, so how do u know its safe for humans? i mean if it was suitable for humans you would think they would have a separate brand wouldnt u?
No, I think you need to think harder on this one.
Could it be that perhaps the US has made it illegal for tyrptophan to be marketed to humans....?That's probably why no companies market it...(more a political thingy)Now it is probably still legal to market for vetinary type use, so those companies who were marketing to vets , racehorse breeders etc can still continue to do so..Think again, how much in monetary terms are racehorses for example worth?
So the question one should be asking is how does the purity of these products differ from the purity that woud have been marketed for human consumption?If you are really worried , I guess you could import a human product..it's one thing they ARE allowed to market for human consumption in Australia!
I think the US law is that it is legal to bring in quantities of some drugs for personal use ... up to 3 months worth ..however I am not an expert on US law or is something I have any desire or need to learn..it's probably different for each state anyway!
Jan
Posted by matthhhh on September 24, 2003, at 17:47:49
In reply to Re: Tryptophan vs 5HTP Please Help!! » matthhhh, posted by tealady on September 24, 2003, at 17:42:34
i didnt think that tryptophan was illegal in the US , i know of a few other US companies that sell tryptophan but it is much more expensive
Posted by tealady on September 24, 2003, at 18:30:07
In reply to Re: Tryptophan vs 5HTP Please Help!!, posted by matthhhh on September 24, 2003, at 17:47:49
I wasn't sure . Whe I looked at iherbm all that came up was 5HTP.
http://www.iherb.com/tryptophan.htmlI thought The US may possibly have clamped down on it due to the tryptophan myalgias scare. You have to do a google on this one.
This is why a lot of docs are cautious over tryptophan , as they are not sure what is happening I think..and this was stuff for HUMAN consumption too...so you can never be completely certain.
http://www.mts.net/~baumel/ems.html
agree with Larry on this..if the question is a choice between 5HTP and tryptophan..which is what the thread was on... (either of which I've had any personal experience with), the safer one,IMO, from what is currently known..and this is always changing, appears to be tryptophan
JanPS it wouldn't be something I would be taking unless I thought I showed a real need for it (either of them)
Think hard on this one <Grin>..
Posted by tealady on September 24, 2003, at 18:32:20
In reply to Re: Tryptophan vs 5HTP Please Help!! » matthhhh, posted by tealady on September 24, 2003, at 18:30:07
correction- edit
(either of which I've had NO any personal experience with),
Posted by matthhhh on September 24, 2003, at 19:43:31
In reply to Re: Tryptophan vs 5HTP Please Help!!, posted by tealady on September 24, 2003, at 18:32:20
actually about 5 htp and tryptophan - neither are bad for you. Their amino acids which are the basic form of food, and not in the least bit dangerous.
Posted by tealady on September 24, 2003, at 20:08:51
In reply to Re: Tryptophan vs 5HTP Please Help!!, posted by matthhhh on September 24, 2003, at 5:58:52
> Hey MacPac, so how do u know its safe for humans? i mean if it was suitable for humans you would think they would have a separate brand wouldnt u?
just one more point...
no, I think they way the business world may work is that you get a license to produce supplements, etc. for vetinary(animal use) purposes only..so they have no reason or license to bring in a "human" brand. It does not however automatically imply inferiority..just that one should check to see if it is suitable ie. identical to what would be sold to humans and as pure..and you can't expect the company to help with this much as they are not licensed to sell for human consumption.The only things I think, that are really safe are those with a long history of safe use. (unfortunately this doesn't always suit the pharmaceutical industry)
The serotonin drugs may be just as dangerous as the tryptophans etc .. ...serotonin syndrome?but if you do need them, you have to decide, perhaps together with a doc? And OK it with your doc know if you do decide to start taking any of these, especially if already taking other drugs...
Jan
Posted by tealady on September 24, 2003, at 23:12:44
In reply to Re: Tryptophan vs 5HTP Please Help!!, posted by matthhhh on September 24, 2003, at 19:43:31
> actually about 5 htp and tryptophan - neither are bad for you. Their amino acids which are the basic form of food, and not in the least bit dangerous.
Sorry Bob,I give up. The above statement IS dangerous.
Actually warm milk is VERY good advice..high in serotonin,
Good serontonin foods include.. like banana, nuts, avocado, yogurt, cheese, turkey, milk (warmed )
So a glass of warm milk before bed that small children are often given does some good..and is a safe way to get serotonin, unless a strong need is really indicated (as admittedly applies to some folk here. )Jan
Posted by matthhhh on September 25, 2003, at 7:27:55
In reply to Suggest you try a glass of warm milk! » matthhhh, posted by tealady on September 24, 2003, at 23:12:44
i guess you have limited knowledge of amino acids then. They are the basic form of food and are the most harmless supplements out there.
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 25, 2003, at 8:12:19
In reply to Re: Suggest you try a glass of warm milk!, posted by matthhhh on September 25, 2003, at 7:27:55
> i guess you have limited knowledge of amino acids then.
Please be sensitive to the feelings of others and don't post anything that could lead them to feel put down, thanks.
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 25, 2003, at 8:17:21
In reply to Suggest you try a glass of warm milk! » matthhhh, posted by tealady on September 24, 2003, at 23:12:44
> > actually about 5 htp and tryptophan - neither are bad for you. Their amino acids which are the basic form of food, and not in the least bit dangerous.
>
> Sorry Bob,I give up. The above statement IS dangerous.In what way? Could you be more specific? Thanks,
Bob
Posted by JLx on September 25, 2003, at 19:40:05
In reply to Re: Tryptophan vs 5HTP Please Help!!, posted by matthhhh on September 24, 2003, at 5:58:52
Tryptophan is illegal to sell as a human supplement in the U.S. -- or so I had understood. Perhaps it's changed just recently, or there is some loophole so that this site can offer it here: (to order) http://www.healthrecovery.com/ (info) http://www.healthrecovery.com/PageMill_Product_Files/Tryptophan.html
That site is from an addiction treatment center of the woman, Joan Mathews Larson, who wrote "Depression Free Naturally" which I've read and would recomend, even though it is a few years old now. The last time I checked that site, a few months ago, she wasn't selling tryptophan herself but was referring people to this site: (order) http://www.biochemicals.com/orderonline.php3 (info)http://www.biochemicals.com/productinfo.php3?id=22 There, tryptophan is labeled for "veterinary use only" to get around the law presumably, as the information sheet is clearly about humans, not pets.
If the equine site is a comparable product, it's clearly a LOT cheaper. What I wondered, is since it says it's 90% pure -- what's in the other 10%?
Tryptophan is also sold as a drug in Canada, btw, called Tryptan -- available online through pharmacies, some of which may or may not require a prescription. It's available through compounding pharmacies in the U.S. too -- if you can find a doc to prescribe it.
Here's a page about that, by a woman who treated her own depression with natural health remedies: http://depressionvitamins.com/tryptophan/ There's lots of good info on that site.
I'm still not clear whether tryptophan or 5-HTP is supposed to be best. Michael Murray -- who is a naturopathic doctor I usually respect -- says 5-HTP is better. http://www.doctormurray.com/5htp/tryptophan.htm I'm reading his book now, "5-HTP: The Natural Way to Boost Serotonin and Overcome Depression, Obesity, and Insomnia
5-HTP". Here are the FAQs from his site: http://www.doctormurray.com/B5htpFAQ.htmI had all this stuff already bookmarked. :)
> Hey MacPac, so how do u know its safe for humans? i mean if it was suitable for humans you would think they would have a separate brand wouldnt u?
Posted by tealady on September 25, 2003, at 20:04:48
In reply to Re: statement is dangerous, posted by Dr. Bob on September 25, 2003, at 8:17:21
> Bob
I guess you have limited knowledge of amino acids then. They are the basic form of food and are the most harmless supplements out there.
Hi Dr Bob,
Matth did not offend me and I readily admit, I have a very limited knowledge of amino acids, definitely way more than 99% I do not know!
I did get frustrated and should not have become so sarcastic with Matth...which is why I wanted to walk away. I apologise for that.> > > actually about 5 htp and tryptophan - neither are bad for you. Their amino acids which are the basic form of food, and not in the least bit dangerous.
> >
> > Sorry Bob,I give up. The above statement IS dangerous.
>
> In what way? Could you be more specific? Thanks,
>I personally had quite an effect from tyrosine at 2000mg, one I doubt I could ever produce from eating copious amounts of any food.
The effect is no doubt magnified as I am on thyroid meds which has a MAOI effect from what I have read from links provided here.
I've found between 500mg to 1000mg will probably be very helpful though for me though.
If I were to follow Matth, and treat tyrosine as perhaps a food and have no concern as to amounts I swallowed I could have serious side effects.... pulse and blood pressure raised possibly to dangerous levels for startersAlso I based the statement on the posts just above to Matth where I provided links to some doubts about the safety of taking at least overhigh doses of tryptophan.
This is not to say that some people will not get great benefit from tryptophan.
To make a statement saying that anything which is, I would think, only a part of a food and not a complete food, can be used as safely as a food is, IMO dangerous.
As I admit, I am no expert..but think of aspirin. One cannot take unlimited quantities of it, even though it is in foods such as an apple.
I guess my concern is much deeper and wider than this though and is probably what led me to react as I did. I'll try to continue in admin.
Thanks, Jan
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 25, 2003, at 21:00:25
In reply to Re: statement is dangerous » Dr. Bob, posted by tealady on September 25, 2003, at 20:04:48
Posted by matthhhh on September 25, 2003, at 21:13:55
In reply to Re: statement is dangerous » Dr. Bob, posted by tealady on September 25, 2003, at 20:04:48
sorry if caused hard feelings, didnt mean too
Posted by tealady on September 25, 2003, at 22:25:08
In reply to Re: statement is dangerous, posted by matthhhh on September 25, 2003, at 21:13:55
> sorry if caused hard feelings, didnt mean too
Matth,
Please accept my apology. Didn't mean to either.
I overreacted.
Just got concerned as I do believe amino acids are far more powerful than foods in effect.
Jan
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 26, 2003, at 16:54:26
In reply to Re: Tryptophan vs 5HTP Please Help!!, posted by matthhhh on September 24, 2003, at 17:47:49
> i didnt think that tryptophan was illegal in the US , i know of a few other US companies that sell tryptophan but it is much more expensive
Tryptophan was completely banned by the FDA, but with no fanfare, the ban was lifted in 1994. For some of the details, here's an info sheet from the FDA website:
http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/ds-tryp1.html
The critical bit of information is the intended use for the tryptophan. If for human consumption, the manufacturer is wholly responsible for the safety of the product. That's why the price is now so high for products marketed for human use. The FDA could no longer reasonably ban the product, but they could put in force regulations not applied to any other supplement, guaranteeing that the price would be high. A cynic would argue that any company marketing tryprophan for human use is doing so to make windfall profits.
Lar <a cynic>
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