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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 88 to 112 of 225. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 13, 2013, at 1:12:53
In reply to Lou's warning-gudphoardhakahmunitty » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou PIlder on July 12, 2013, at 15:55:22
> Now we do not know which posts belong in the set of {some} of Lou's notifications. ... what good could it be for this community to leave {any} notification outstanding? ... You see, the argument that it {will be} good for the community as a whole is the same argument to justify infanticide, it is the same argument to justify genocide, it is the same argument to justify slavery, it is the same argument to justify segregation, it is the same argument to justify discrimination. It is nothing new, my friends, it is an old argument, and I can't accept it, for I have seen what two standards can do to people in a community that allows it to be fostered.
One thing infanticide, genocide, slavery, segregation, discrimination -- and bullying -- all have in common is the abuse of power.
Lou has pressed me to use my power on his behalf, and others have pressed me to use my power on their behalf. I understand turning to the use of power when feeling threatened. It's one way to feel safe, to create a refuge. My single standard, at least right now, is that I'm not giving in to pressure from either the rock or the hard place.
Scott said before that a refuge at Babble to protect people from Babble was a paradox. I think it has to do with your perspective. Some members of a community may want a refuge from other members of that community, but if you "zoom out", the big picture may be that that all members of that community feel it's a refuge from the outside world.
I like to think all members of this community, even if they feel unsafe in some way here, feel more safe in some way than in the non-Babble world.
Bob
Posted by 10derheart on July 13, 2013, at 12:46:31
In reply to Re: the big picture, posted by Dr. Bob on July 13, 2013, at 1:12:53
At least I know where I stand now.
If Lou can compare your statements in a post to those outrageous, horrible things and instead of being reminded this is (**was** now, obviously) a civil place, you engage in more philosophizing and other ^&%$%, just imagine what Lou will feel free to say to me and other ordinary posters.
Pressure? Is it pressure when I ask the police to ticket people driving fast down a densely populated cul-de-sac where many children play, because they may hit someone? Harm, maim, or worse?
You used to use these very same kind of analogies to explain your PBCs/blocks to posters who didn't understand the necessity for boundaries and limited freedom of speech.
It is not okay, for me, that you elect abdication. You say you are willing to moderate. But not really. Not really.
Later. Much later.
Posted by SLS on July 13, 2013, at 14:42:01
In reply to Lou's warning-gudphoardhakahmunitty » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou PIlder on July 12, 2013, at 15:55:22
> You see, the argument that it {will be} good for the community as a whole is the same argument to justify infanticide, it is the same argument to justify genocide, it is the same argument to justify slavery, it is the same argument to justify segregation, it is the same argument to justify discrimination.
What is this same argument? You neglected to describe it.
Is it your accusation that because your notifications to the administrator of this tiny website are to be left outstanding, infanticide, genocide, slavery, segregation, and discrimination will result?
What is it that Dr. Bob is doing to promote genocide?
Scapegoat?
I think that blocking you from posting accusations that people are promoting antisemitism would be in the community's best interests. I think that blocking you from posting accusations that people are promoting infanticide would be in the community's best interests. I think that blocking you from posting accusations that people are promoting genocide would be in the community's best interests. I think that blocking you from posting accusations that people are promoting slavery would be in the community's best interests. I think that blocking you from posting accusations that people are promoting segregation would be in the community's best interests. I think that blocking you from posting accusations that people are promoting discrimination would be in the community's best interests.
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on July 13, 2013, at 15:09:12
In reply to Re: the big picture » Dr. Bob, posted by 10derheart on July 13, 2013, at 12:46:31
He's made his position clear, and I doubt it will change.
I do think he should change the FAQ to reflect the new Babble rules.
All in our power is to decide how to react to the reality.
Posted by Dinah on July 13, 2013, at 15:10:19
In reply to Re: The big picture » Lou PIlder, posted by SLS on July 13, 2013, at 14:42:01
I do too.
It's a shame that the only one with the power to do anything has chosen not to.
The only power any of us has is to choose what to do about the reality.
Posted by SLS on July 13, 2013, at 15:22:37
In reply to Re: The big picture » SLS, posted by Dinah on July 13, 2013, at 15:10:19
> I do too.
>
> It's a shame that the only one with the power to do anything has chosen not to.
>
> The only power any of us has is to choose what to do about the reality.
Yes. You are right. I guess it is an evolution of sorts. I'm still finding my way.
- Scott
Posted by Twinleaf on July 13, 2013, at 15:24:43
In reply to Re: the big picture, posted by Dr. Bob on July 13, 2013, at 1:12:53
Respectfully, Dr.Bob, if you say you are going to moderate, then our community does expect you to do so, in whatever way currently seems best to you.
Considering Lou's accusations and community requests that you actively follow your civility guidelines as just differing points of view does not accurately describe this situation. By refusing to move towards either point of view, you are not moderating as you had promised to do. Having Lou condemn and threaten people is not equal to posters asking you to follow your own civility guidelines. By saying you will not be pulled towards either point of view, you are saying that you will not moderate.
I am all for a flexible type of administrating which would be comfortable and rewarding for you, and for us. But an unmoderated board is unacceptable to me. I find it to be just as unsafe as stressful interpersonal situations in real life. With those, I either solve the stressful aspects or, if I am unable to do that, I eliminate it from my life. Much as I love and appreciate Babble, I will do the same here if the board continues to be unmoderated.
Which will it be?
Posted by SLS on July 13, 2013, at 15:26:22
In reply to correction: Lou's warning-mehyknott, posted by Lou PIlder on July 12, 2013, at 16:38:28
> > You see, the argument that it {will be} good for the community as a whole is the same argument to justify infanticide, it is the same argument to justify genocide, it is the same argument to justify slavery, it is the same argument to justify segregation, it is the same argument to justify discrimination.
>
> What is this same argument? You neglected to describe it.
>
> Is it your accusation that because your notifications to the administrator of this tiny website are to be left outstanding, infanticide, genocide, slavery, segregation, and discrimination will result?
>
> What is it that Dr. Bob is doing to promote genocide?
>
> Scapegoat?
>
> I think that blocking you from posting accusations that people are promoting antisemitism would be in the community's best interests. I think that blocking you from posting accusations that people are promoting infanticide would be in the community's best interests. I think that blocking you from posting accusations that people are promoting genocide would be in the community's best interests. I think that blocking you from posting accusations that people are promoting slavery would be in the community's best interests. I think that blocking you from posting accusations that people are promoting segregation would be in the community's best interests. I think that blocking you from posting accusations that people are promoting discrimination would be in the community's best interests.
As you like to say, there is so much more than this.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on July 13, 2013, at 15:45:22
In reply to Re: the big picture, posted by Twinleaf on July 13, 2013, at 15:24:43
> I either solve the stressful aspects or, if I am unable to do that, I eliminate it from my life. Much as I love and appreciate Babble, I will do the same here if the board continues to be unmoderated.
I would be very, very unhappy were this to occur.
I hold you in high esteem, and always look forward to reading your posts. You are a great asset to the Psycho-Babble community. You are a great resource for me personally.
Community. What a nice word. I guess there will always be people posting on these boards, but the sense of community may suffer for your absence, nevertheless.
- Scott
Posted by gardenergirl on July 13, 2013, at 17:58:35
In reply to Re: The big picture » Lou PIlder, posted by SLS on July 13, 2013, at 14:42:01
Where's the retweet button? I would so retweet this. :)
>
> Is it your accusation that because your notifications to the administrator of this tiny website are to be left outstanding, infanticide, genocide, slavery, segregation, and discrimination will result?
>
> What is it that Dr. Bob is doing to promote genocide?
>
> Scapegoat?
>
> I think that blocking you from posting accusations that people are promoting antisemitism would be in the community's best interests. I think that blocking you from posting accusations that people are promoting infanticide would be in the community's best interests. I think that blocking you from posting accusations that people are promoting genocide would be in the community's best interests. I think that blocking you from posting accusations that people are promoting slavery would be in the community's best interests. I think that blocking you from posting accusations that people are promoting segregation would be in the community's best interests. I think that blocking you from posting accusations that people are promoting discrimination would be in the community's best interests.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by Twinleaf on July 13, 2013, at 19:19:56
In reply to Re: the big picture » Twinleaf, posted by SLS on July 13, 2013, at 15:45:22
Oh, thank you, Scott - you are such a sweetheart! I feel the same way about you, and always read your posts with interest and appreciation. In my imagination, I think of you finally finding the complete treatment you need ( perhaps a form of deep tmi), and telling us that you are working and having a satisfying personal life. I don't know why exactly, but I feel very certain that you will find the way.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 16, 2013, at 12:54:04
In reply to Re: The big picture, posted by gardenergirl on July 13, 2013, at 17:58:35
> If Lou can compare your statements in a post to those outrageous, horrible things and instead of being reminded this is (**was** now, obviously) a civil place, you engage in more philosophizing and other ^&%$%, just imagine what Lou will feel free to say to me and other ordinary posters.
>
> Pressure? Is it pressure when I ask the police to ticket people driving fast down a densely populated cul-de-sac where many children play, because they may hit someone? Harm, maim, or worse?
>
> It is not okay, for me, that you elect abdication.
>
> 10derheartYou're not a child. You could elect not to be hit. If you feel hurt reading what someone writes, you could stop reading what they write. What if you and Phillipa tried to help each other do that?
--
> > You see, the argument that it {will be} good for the community as a whole is the same argument to justify infanticide...
>
> Is it your accusation that because your notifications to the administrator of this tiny website are to be left outstanding, infanticide, genocide, slavery, segregation, and discrimination will result?
>
> - ScottThat's a good point. Is there evidence of infanticide, genocide, slavery, segregation, discrimination -- or maiming -- here now? Or anxiety that there will be in the future?
--
> You say you are willing to moderate. But not really. Not really.
>
> 10derheart> Respectfully, Dr.Bob, if you say you are going to moderate, then our community does expect you to do so, in whatever way currently seems best to you.
>
> TwinleafI'm moderating in the sense of "presiding over". When I'm notified of posts, I'm enforcing existing rules and responding either on the board or to the posters who notified me. One exception is that I think right now it may be good for this community as a whole, and for me, to leave some of Lou's notifications outstanding.
I'm also moderating in the sense of "lessening the intensity or extremeness of".
--
> Where's the retweet button? I would so retweet this. :)
>
> gardenergirlI'm glad you brought that up. :-)
3/4 of the posters on this thread have elected to disable the Facebook and Twitter buttons. I see that as voting to limit the visibility of Babble. Maybe I understand that better now. If Babble is a tiny cul-de-sac, then it may be more like a refuge.
Bob
Posted by Dinah on July 16, 2013, at 21:41:38
In reply to Re: a refuge, posted by Dr. Bob on July 16, 2013, at 12:54:04
> You're not a child. You could elect not to be hit. If you feel hurt reading what someone writes, you could stop reading what they write. What if you and Phillipa tried to help each other do that?
OMG
I'd better the h*ll quit reading *your* posts.
Posted by 10derheart on July 16, 2013, at 21:45:37
In reply to Re: a refuge, posted by Dr. Bob on July 16, 2013, at 12:54:04
>>When I'm notified of posts, I'm enforcing existing rules
Not true. Twist it, turn in anyway you like, I'm not wrong. You are allowing posts that could lead others to feel accused or put down, routinely, especially if Lou is the author.
And telling me I'm not a child.... {ugh} You utterly missed the point - on purpose, perhaps.
You know, Dr. Bob, I'm thinking this is just one big joke to you, where you eagerly await another post so you can play semantic gymnastics with it. I could have picked **any** example of boundaries that are akin to violations of traffic laws, which as I said, and will say for the final time here, are precisely the same analogies you used to use to challenge those who did not understand the need for civility rules.
In fact, if you are following the rules, you will enforce the rules on this post since I am not trying to be civil and have certainly accused you of negative things.
I'll be sure it gets reported.
Posted by 10derheart on July 16, 2013, at 21:50:48
In reply to Re: a refuge » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on July 16, 2013, at 21:41:38
Gosh, how much more I **love** your response to him than my namby pamby one.
Succinct, authentic and right to the heart of the matter.
Why I bother with any manner of communication, I'll never know...
Posted by 10derheart on July 16, 2013, at 22:01:23
In reply to Re: a refuge, posted by Dr. Bob on July 16, 2013, at 12:54:04
>>If Babble is a tiny cul-de-sac
Stop it. That is not what I meant and you know it.
Posted by gardenergirl on July 16, 2013, at 22:17:29
In reply to Re: a refuge » Dinah, posted by 10derheart on July 16, 2013, at 21:50:48
I had a similar response, but didn't muster up a reply, because I don't really feel like I have a dog in this fight anymore. Except that I get mad when people I love and respect are hurt.
Standing with you.
Posted by gardenergirl on July 16, 2013, at 22:31:16
In reply to Re: a refuge, posted by Dr. Bob on July 16, 2013, at 12:54:04
It was a metaphor. I guess I could have just reposted Scott's words with a smiley emoticon. But I would never conflate my Facebook and Babble identities. Nor would I create a fake Facebook identity, against their site guidelines, to promote this site.
Sigh, it's not a vote to limit the visibility of Babble, it's a vote NOT TO COMPROMISE MY PRIVACY. I am stunned that anyone would endorse that. And promoting your site, the one you have left to languish, is neither my job nor hobby.
> > Where's the retweet button? I would so retweet this. :)
> >
> > gardenergirl
>
> I'm glad you brought that up. :-)
>
> 3/4 of the posters on this thread have elected to disable the Facebook and Twitter buttons. I see that as voting to limit the visibility of Babble. Maybe I understand that better now. If Babble is a tiny cul-de-sac, then it may be more like a refuge.
>
> Bob
Posted by SLS on July 16, 2013, at 22:45:11
In reply to Re: a refuge » Dr. Bob, posted by gardenergirl on July 16, 2013, at 22:31:16
I'm very sad right now.
- Scott
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 16, 2013, at 23:00:32
In reply to Re: a refuge )Dinah » 10derheart, posted by gardenergirl on July 16, 2013, at 22:17:29
> Not true. Twist it, turn in anyway you like, I'm not wrong.
>
> You know, Dr. Bob, I'm thinking this is just one big joke to you, where you eagerly await another post so you can play semantic gymnastics with it. I could have picked **any** example of boundaries that are akin to violations of traffic laws, which as I said, and will say for the final time here, are precisely the same analogies you used to use to challenge those who did not understand the need for civility rules.That was the old model. Posters depended on the administration to use its power to define and enforce boundaries to make this a refuge.
> OMG
>
> I'd better the h*ll quit reading *your* posts.
>
> Dinah> Gosh, how much more I **love** your response to him than my namby pamby one.
>
> Succinct, authentic and right to the heart of the matter.
>
> Why I bother with any manner of communication, I'll never know...
>
> 10derheart> I had a similar response, but didn't muster up a reply, because I don't really feel like I have a dog in this fight anymore. Except that I get mad when people I love and respect are hurt.
>
> Standing with you.
>
> gardenergirlAnd that's the new model. Sometimes problems can't be made to go away, but posters can support each other, learn ways to cope, and find the energy to persevere.
You guys are still a good team. :-)
Bob
Posted by Dinah on July 16, 2013, at 23:26:29
In reply to Re: a refuge, posted by Dr. Bob on July 16, 2013, at 23:00:32
Posted by Phillipa on July 16, 2013, at 23:37:56
In reply to Re: a refuge, posted by Dr. Bob on July 16, 2013, at 23:00:32
Dr Bob I don't feel it's you posting these posts the language isn't the same. Stolen identity? Something doesn't smell right. Phillipa
Posted by 10derheart on July 17, 2013, at 1:15:41
In reply to Re: a refuge, posted by Phillipa on July 16, 2013, at 23:37:56
...trust me. I can tell by my flashbacks :-(
The irony is that supposedly something's a "new model" here when in reality it's the same old, same old...
To hell with it.
Posted by 10derheart on July 17, 2013, at 1:18:26
In reply to **** *** (nm) » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on July 16, 2013, at 23:26:29
Posted by SLS on July 17, 2013, at 7:02:21
In reply to **** *** (nm) » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on July 16, 2013, at 23:26:29
I can hardly believe that it has come to this.
:-(
I wish I could wake up to a different reality.
Who's smiling now?
- Scott
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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